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[eyeball_kid]

they already have nukes.

They have, from what I've read, sort of WW2-era atomic bomb capability right now. They haven't been yet able to miniaturize the tech enough to put it on a missile. But missiles aren't the biggest concern.

The biggest, scariest problem is North Korea selling either nuclear bombs or the intelligence to make them on the black market. NK is an unstable-but-relatively-sane dictatorship. MAD prevents them from really going whole hog unless they have no option. But if terrorists or other non-state actors get ahold of portable nukes, it's game over. And NK is already selling arms on the black market.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Sure, why the fuck not.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

If shit does go down I wonder how the market will react?

 

[jchap]

They need to be taken out soon. They can't be allowed to have ICBMs. I hope China does it.

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

Let's go! We have more MOABs?

 

[geomon]

Obama did fuck all to contain and de-nuke NK for eight years, and now we're left with Dr. Strangelove.

WTF are you talking about? He did everything he could short of getting on his knees for China.

 

[Clydefrog]

Jesus fucking christ... if I was living in South Korea, I'd be taking an out-of-country vacation like ASAP.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

This numbskull

Japan is one of the US's closest allies.

The reason they might be worried is because NK could feasibly fire missiles at Japan should Trump provoke them.

Yeah, I live in Japan and Trump provoking NK is definitely cause for concern over here

 

[AnathemicOne]

They need to be taken out soon. They can't be allowed to have ICBMs. I hope China does it.

At the cost of flattening Seoul and attacking Japan, gotcha

 

[Ac30]

At the cost of flattening Seoul and attacking Japan, gotcha

Question is, what do when the have the capabilities?

 

[eyeball_kid]

WTF are you talking about? He did everything he could short of getting on his knees for China.

It was the equivalent of strongly-worded letters. NK is IMO the biggest national security threat we have, and he paid little attention to it. Applying much more pressure on China to intervene would've been the first step.

 

[AmyS]

There's a GBU-57 Massive Ordnance Penetrator (30,000 pound bunker buster) with Kim Jong Un's name on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_Ordnance_Penetrator

 

[AcademicSaucer]

WTF are you talking about? He did everything he could short of getting on his knees for China.

You need both China and Russia to cut their source of revenue and make them give up their nuclear arsenal.

 

[Assanova]

At the cost of flattening Seoul and attacking Japan, gotcha

This was the same exact logic during WW2 and it cost even more lives letting the Axis powers get stronger.

 

[Zolo]

Japan is one of the US's closest allies.

The reason they might be worried is because NK could feasibly fire missiles at Japan should Trump provoke them.

Not familiar with modern military technology, but would Japan have defenses against missiles?

You need both China and Russia to cut their source of revenue and make them give up their nuclear arsenal.

China? Maybe. They may have more to lose with NK.
Russia? No way. They're doing what they can to encourage destabilization across the world.

 

[AESplusF]

This numbskull



Yeah, I live in Japan and Trump provoking NK is definitely cause for concern over here

Which is why nothing drastic has been done yet, but at some point the line is going to be crossed and there's going to be conflict.

 

[Zubz]

This was the same exact logic during WW2 and it cost even more lives letting the Axis powers get stronger.

... And you genuinely expect North Korea to get that much stronger?

More importantly, you believe those actual human lives are worth the risk of either eliminating North Korea or initiating a nuclear war?

 

[Bobnob]

At the cost of flattening Seoul and attacking Japan, gotcha

Them having icbms in the future would probably be more of a threat to SK, the risk of atack would probably go up?? Wouldn't it, im not meaning they need icbm but just overall.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

This was the same exact logic during WW2 and it cost even more lives letting the Axis powers get stronger.

this is.. no. what?

the situations aren't even remotely the same.

 

[AnathemicOne]

Question is, what do when the have the capabilities?

What do we do when Saudi Arabia got nukes? Israel, Iran? We live in a complex world with complex problems, simple warmongering solutions aren't the answer. So far questionable countries have militarized over the past few decades and yet the majority of the world still lives in an unprecedented time of peace.

You want the US to go destabilize another region of the world just like the Middle East? East Asia is fucking vicious or did we all forget the Pacific theater of WW2?

 

[MadeULook]

This was the same exact logic during WW2 and it cost even more lives letting the Axis powers get stronger.

What the hell did I just read? This is a far different situation than what was going on with the Axis in WW2.

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

This was the same exact logic during WW2 and it cost even more lives letting the Axis powers get stronger.

Way different situation.

 

[AlexMogil]

China going to side with U.N./America when the dust settles.

Yeah but the settling dust is fallout.

 

[AnathemicOne]

This was the same exact logic during WW2 and it cost even more lives letting the Axis powers get stronger.

Except NK isn't taking territory nor expanding its borders. Get out of here with your false equivalency.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Suddenly I'm reminded of Japanese Donald Trump Commercialトランプ video. .. dude.

 

[RPGamer92]

I guess WW3 will win the battle of which sequel will come first between it and Half-Life 3.

 

[eyeball_kid]

What do we do when Saudi Arabia got nukes? Israel, Iran? We live in a complex world with complex problems, simple warmongering solutions aren't the answer. So far questionable countries have militarized over the past few decades and yet the majority of the world still lives in an unprecedented time of peace.

You want the US to go destabilize another region of the world just like the Middle East? East Asia is fucking vicious or did we all forget the Pacific theater of WW2?

North Korea is not a normal state, and this isn't about country-to-country threats. There's a little of that, but everyone knows NK wouldn't just cowboy it up and launch some shit because they know they'd be annihilated. The threat, as I mentioned earlier, is that NK would be more than willing to sell nuclear bombs or nuclear know-how on the black market, where they are already selling arms.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Stay safe Asia-GAF.

pretty sure NK is gonna try and test. Pretty sure the Donald is gonna strike. Pretty sure NK is going to attack South Korea.

 

[Khezu]

So for people who know far more about stuff like this then me, is this more Trumps will, or is it him not being able to reign the Military in?

I'm sure there are a lot of higher ups in the military that would love nothing more then an excuse to use some of their fancy and expensive toys.

 

[zeemumu]

Always figured people in NK were more afraid of their leader than loyal to him

 

[littleworm]

Not familiar with modern military technology, but would Japan have defenses against missiles?

The US and Japan did have a successful test intercept just a couple of months ago.

Link

Japan and the US are also in talks of deploying a THAAD missile defense system in the region, with heavy criticism from China. However as far as I am aware, these defenses aren't perfect and there would be a chance of it not hitting its target.

 

[Crayolan]

Not familiar with modern military technology, but would Japan have defenses against missiles?

I'm not familiar with Japan's military capability, can't say.

 

[Assanova]

... And you genuinely expect North Korea to get that much stronger?

More importantly, you believe those actual human lives are worth the risk of either eliminating North Korea or initiating a nuclear war?

I would call obtaining ICBMs that much stronger. That and NK selling the tech. We tried diplomacy for decades and it hasn't worked. No one wants the loss of human lives, but at some point, you have to look at the cost in lives if we wait. It's why we nuked Japan during WW2. The loss of lives sucked, but we saved millions more by doing so. The end game matters and those who ignore it pay dearly.

 

[diehard]

Except NK isn't taking territory nor expanding its borders. Get out of here with your false equivalency.

Germany started breaking treaties and building their military but nobody really wanted to do anything about it. Its a long shot comparison but i get his point.

 

[Poohblaster]

Except NK isn't taking territory nor expanding its borders. Get out of here with your false equivalency.

It's not entirely a false equivalency. A North Korea armed with nuclear ICBMs is a lot more dangerous than a North Korea that doesn't have them.

 

[Ac30]

What do we do when Saudi Arabia got nukes? Israel, Iran? We live in a complex world with complex problems, simple warmongering solutions aren't the answer. So far questionable countries have militarized over the past few decades and yet the majority of the world still lives in an unprecedented time of peace.

You want the US to go destabilize another region of the world just like the Middle East? East Asia is fucking vicious or did we all forget the Pacific theater of WW2?

Speaking of Iran, Obama was doing his best to secure a deal there, and if Trump doesn't try to actively kill it it should do better. The Saudi's aren't having much luck getting nukes, thankfully. No one seriously expects Israel to threaten nuclear war on the daily.

Kim knows his regime's survival depends on them getting ICBMs - there should be renewed 6-party talks, but I don't think Kim is interested now they're so close. If anything China should be ramping up the pressure with sanctions. I'm not advocating for war - it would be catastrophic for all parties. The problem is we're running out of time and Trump and his neutered State department is completely incapable of doing anything.

It's not like they wouldn't try something stupid. Yeonpyeong was less than a decade ago.

 

[Graphics Horse]

6 Then the seven Angels, which had the seven Trumpettes, prepared themselves to blow the Trumpettes.
7 So the first Angel blew the Trumpette, and there was hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast into the earth, and the third part of trees was burnt, and all green grass was burnt.
8 And the second Angel blew the Trumpette, and as it were a great mountain, burning with fire, was cast into the sea, and the third part of the sea became blood.
9 And the third part of the creatures, which were in the sea, and had life, died, and the third part of ships were destroyed.
10 Then the third Angel blew the Trumpette, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell into the third part of the rivers, and into the fountains of waters.
11 And the name of the star is called wormwood: therefore the third part of the waters became wormwood, and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
12 And the fourth Angel blew the Trumpette​, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars, so that the third part of them was darkened: and the day was smitten, that the third part of it could not shine, and likewise the night.
13 And I beheld, and heard one Angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the sounds to come of the Trumpette​ of the three Angels, which were yet to blow the Trumpettes.

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

And I am Sitting here in Osaka, the second largest population Center and nuke target in Japan and my girlfriend is in China. Great,Just great.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

North Korea is not a normal state, and this isn't about country-to-country threats. There's a little of that, but everyone knows NK wouldn't just cowboy it up and launch some shit because they know they'd be annihilated. The threat, as I mentioned earlier, is that NK would be more than willing to sell nuclear bombs or nuclear know-how on the black market, where they are already selling arms.

Nukes are a what, 70 year old tech? Everyone who wants them knows exactly how they work. The problem has always been the weapons grade nuclear material, not the plans.

And no one with that material is going to give it up for sale.

 

[theignoramus]

They have, from what I've read, sort of WW2-era atomic bomb capability right now. They haven't been yet able to miniaturize the tech enough to put it on a missile. But missiles aren't the biggest concern.

The biggest, scariest problem is North Korea selling either nuclear bombs or the intelligence to make them on the black market. NK is an unstable-but-relatively-sane dictatorship. MAD prevents them from really going whole hog unless they have no option. But if terrorists or other non-state actors get ahold of portable nukes, it's game over. And NK is already selling arms on the black market.

Ive been reading this talking point since the days of Bush II. At this point it's probable that they can fire short range nuclear missile at their neighbors.

U.S. officials who endorse the notion that Kim probably has a nuclear warhead still note that they don't know if the device would actually work. The North Koreans believe it would.
U.S. commanders have said they assume for war planning purposes that North Korea has a functional warhead but have stopped short of outright declaring it exists.
"It's the prudent decision on my part to assume that he has the capability to miniaturize a nuclear weapon and put it on an ICBM," Adm. William Gortney, head of U.S. Northern Command, recently told Congress.
But the Pentagon has taken pains to downplay the possibility.
Pentagon Press Secretary Peter Cook acknowledged that "the commanders who are responsible for these activities" are "doing the prudent, appropriate, proper" thing by assuming the North Koreans possess this capability.

Seems like the US is simply playing a game of publicly refusing to acknowledge NK's ability to launch a warhead but privately planning around their possession of it.


The US isnt going to war over that, theyre concerned about ICBMs, which NK does not currently have.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

They have, from what I've read, sort of WW2-era atomic bomb capability right now. They haven't been yet able to miniaturize the tech enough to put it on a missile. But missiles aren't the biggest concern.

The biggest, scariest problem is North Korea selling either nuclear bombs or the intelligence to make them on the black market. NK is an unstable-but-relatively-sane dictatorship. MAD prevents them from really going whole hog unless they have no option. But if terrorists or other non-state actors get ahold of portable nukes, it's game over. And NK is already selling arms on the black market.

Their tech has been rapidly improving despite a lot of public and embarrassing failures. They recently gained the ability to launch missiles from mobile platforms.

In regards to the black market, North Korea has been known to be very active in it. There are plenty of reports that they are actively sharing or selling their nuclear learnings with other nations that prop up terrorist organizations.

Nukes are a what, 70 year old tech? Everyone who wants them knows exactly how they work. The problem has always been the weapons grade nuclear material, not the plans.

And no one with that material is going to give it up for sale.

It's not just the materials, although that is one big barrier.

 

[AnathemicOne]

It's not entirely a false equivalency. A North Korea armed with nuclear ICBMs is a lot more dangerous than a North Korea that doesn't have them.

And a flattened Seoul and assaulted Japan is infinitely more world-breaking than NK getting new tech.

Look, I despise NK like any sane person would. But they are major key player (however unwanted) in the stability of East Asia.

 

[Coriolanus]

NK selling nuke tech is a red herring. We don't shit our pants constantly over Pakistan selling tech, and oh hey, look at that.

The story of the world's worst case of nuclear smuggling took a new twist on Thursday when documents surfaced appearing to implicate two former Pakistani generals in the sale of uranium enrichment technology to North Korea in return for millions of dollars in cash and jewels handed over in a canvas bag and cardboard boxes of fruit.

The source of the documents is AQ Khan, who confessed in 2004 to selling parts and instructions for the use of high-speed centrifuges in enriching uranium to Libya, Iran and North Korea. Extracts were published by the Washington Post, including a letter in English purportedly from a senior North Korean official to Khan in 1998 detailing payment of $3m to Pakistan's former army chief, General Jehangir Karamat, and another half-million to Lieutenant General Zulfiqar Khan, who was involved in Pakistan's nuclear bomb tests.

 

[Crazyorloco]

This is just normal posturing, guys *nervous chuckle*

Lol I don't know how many times we can downplay stuff in here anymore. This is all within a freaking week.

I have to beat zelda by saturday then.

 

[MadJackChurchill]

And I am Sitting here in Osaka, the second largest population Center and nuke target in Japan and my girlfriend is in China. Great,Just great.

They're aiming for American presence. The only one they can reach that participated in Full Eagle is Iwakuni. I'm in the flight path of an ICBM.

 

[Poohblaster]

And a flattened Seoul and assaulted Japan is infinitely more world-breaking than NK getting new tech.

Look, I despise NK like any sane person would. But they are major key player (however unwanted) in the stability of East Asia.

I agree. A second Korean war is the last thing the world needs right now.

 

[shira]

Stay safe Asia-GAF.

pretty sure NK is gonna try and test. Pretty sure the Donald is gonna strike. Pretty sure NK is going to attack South Korea.

If Donald attacks NK is going to be bombed back into the stone age, no chance for SK attack

 

[AESplusF]

And a flattened Seoul and assaulted Japan is infinitely more world-breaking than NK getting new tech.

Look, I despise NK like any sane person would. But they are major key player (however unwanted) in the stability of East Asia.

You're assuming that would be the outcome, what assumptions can we make about the consequence of allowing NK to continue doing what they're doing?

 

[SolidSnakex]

So for people who know far more about stuff like this then me, is this more Trumps will, or is it him not being able to reign the Military in?

I'm sure there are a lot of higher ups in the military that would love nothing more then an excuse to use some of their fancy and expensive toys.

This is all Trump and his ego. While you'll inevitably have some nutty people in the military, if you ever listen to those in higher ranks you'll see that they have their heads on straight when it comes to understanding how the world works. The two most sane people on Trump's entire staff are from the military (McMaster and Mattis). That may not seem like it's saying much, but they both seem like good people. McMaster is even against using "radical Islamic terrorists" to describe terrorist from the Middle East as he views that as an attack on an entire religion.

The main thing you need to know here is that during the election Trump apparently asked a foreign policy expert "Why can't we use nukes if we have them?". He asked that question three times. That's how he views the military and how it should work.

 

[Dehnus]

I envy the people that read stuff like "US may launch prememptive strike" and don't have the slightest change even the slightest emotion.

I don't they are pretty much dead inside.