• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

New AAA game every other month from Microsoft...?

SaucyJack

Member
Rumor has it that Microsoft going for WB Games.

Rumoured where? Reddit, 4chan, forums?

This is a $4 billion deal if it happens, you need to be looking in the business and not the gaming press for this. I can’t find a single serious source suggesting Microsoft (or Sony) are interested in this. Suitors are believed to be Take 2, Activision Blizzard and EA

I also think that AT&T are going to struggle to get what they’re looking for out of this deal.
 

hemo memo

Member
Rumoured where? Reddit, 4chan, forums?

This is a $4 billion deal if it happens, you need to be looking in the business and not the gaming press for this. I can’t find a single serious source suggesting Microsoft (or Sony) are interested in this. Suitors are believed to be Take 2, Activision Blizzard and EA

I also think that AT&T are going to struggle to get what they’re looking for out of this deal.

WB Games is worth 4 billion? Really?
 

SaucyJack

Member

TheAssist

Member
I wonder how that works out financially. I mean subscription models only work if there are only very few competitors in the game. Netflix had to make huuuge investments to destroy any rivals that were cropping up (and were bleeding money doing so for years. I dont know if they have actually made any real money by now). The only other streaming services come from gigantic companies like Disney or Amazon.

Surely MS has the power to stamp out competitors, or at least make it very unlikely for any newcomers to get involved (amazon, apple, google), because the barrier of entry is just so damn high (which would actually benefit sony as well, at least for a while).

The problem is the transitional period were they not only have to invest a lot of money, but are actually loosing sales from traditional purchases and licencing. Surely EA, Activision, Ubi, Bethesda, etc. will try their own services as well and pull out of gamepass. It will take a few years for the market to consolidate.

They could try to become somewhat independent of 3rd parties just like Nintendo/HBO. Or try a mixed approach like Netflix.
Maybe MS will be the Netflix of gaming and Sony the HBO of gaming. HBO meaning fewer but usually higher average quality. Please dont be triggered by the quality statement, the reason they would be higher on average is because Sony might not have 3rd party stuff on their service. You would basically subscribe to their 1st party studios only (which will probably have a high average quality and could also come with some kind of Sony Music and Sony pictures bundle), while MS has a lot of different stuff from 1st party to 3rd party and independent with quality ranging from really high to what the actual fuck am i looking at.
Now that I think of it, Sony going the walled market approach for subscriptions seems like their thing. Subscribe for 18 bucks a month and you get all Sony games, music, movies and TV shows (do they produce any TV shows right now?). It would be less aggressive towards big 3rd party publishers and it gives the whole package a higher value without actually needing to pump up output significantly on any of their ventures. Its just a new way to pay for all their already existing products and services. I mean in my head that makes sense. One company going the more wide approach of having its own stuff plus whatever they can buy from 3rd parties (probably for a limited time) and the other one offering a walled market oft their own properties (be aware that I think that these subscriptions are different to the whole game streaming thing that might or might not take off in the next few years. At least for the moment. So Playstation Now and XCloud are different subscription models compared to Gamepass and whatever Sony might call their thing).

Well at the very least its going to be very interesting so see where it goes from here. I think both companies have some compelling arguments to make for themselves. MS still has to show me games that I actually want to play (sorry, but I dont like sci-fi shooter games), but hey, never say never.
 

Life

Member
Yes but my PC is half the power (at least) than the XSX. It would cost me more to upgrade the PC for potentially nothing more than 60fps gameplay instead of 30fps and I could get both consoles. The new consoles will be in the 4K resolution range and they both come with NVMe drives so that's another PC advantage gone.

I see. If you know for sure you're gonna get 60fps with most AAA titles on both consoles - then it does make sense yes. But most likely you'll also be paying a subscription fee which I find ridiculous at this point honestly.. Long-term I still think PC is cheaper and more rewarding. You'll just miss out on the odd exclusive here.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
It seems to be the goal 'down the line when the ball really gets going'. That's quite vague. It can be in 10 years too. Obviously we're not getting that right now. But is it possible..? Maybe...

Releasing a game every other month means 6 games per year. If you give development studios 2 years to work on each game, that means you need to have at least 12 AAA development studios, assuming each one works on one project at a time.
It doesn't seem out of the realm of possibilities for Microsoft. They do have the money for it. Whether it will work in practice is another story.
I think a realistic goal would be 1 per quarter with what they have now once they are all on cycle after obligations are met by the new studios like inexile for current projects. With delays ect i think 4 a year is right.
 
Last edited:

ZywyPL

Banned
Mathematically, it's doable - with 15 studios, once the first one releases its game, it would have 14x2 months until they need to realease their next game, once every ~2.5 years. And with counting all the separate teams within those 15 studios, it would actually be more like 3-3.5 years for each team to make a game, enough for an AAA title.
 

Vawn

Banned
I don't know why people act like this is asking too much. It is 6 games a year. Forza is annualized, so that leaves 5 more games.

It still comes down to what constitutes "AAA". That means different things to different people.
 
I don't know why people act like this is asking too much. It is 6 games a year. Forza is annualized, so that leaves 5 more games.

It still comes down to what constitutes "AAA". That means different things to different people.

I don't remember Sony releasing 6 games a year. Do you? At most they've done is 2-3, no more than that.... So what exactly are you saying/asking here?

  • 2015 Order 1886 and Bloodborne
  • 2017 only big game was Horizon: Zero dawn.
  • 2018 2 big games were Spiderman and God of War
  • 2019 2 big games were Days Gone and Death Stranding
  • 2020 2 big games Last of us 2 and Ghost of Tsushima and maybe 3rd is Dreams but that's more of AA
Yeah that's 6 big 1st party AAA games EVERY year.
 
Last edited:

AmuroChan

Member
I think it's more likely that MS's focus will be on GaaS as a way to lock in subs long term. People have mentioned that the math could work with the 15 studios they own, but I think a bunch of their studios will be supporting their games with post-launch content for months rather than trying to churn out a new AAA game very 2.5 years. Not saying it's impossible, but a AAA game every other month seems awfully ambitious, especially when there's no consensus definition of what a AAA game is.
 
Last edited:

Ian Henry

Member
I don't remember Sony releasing 6 games a year. Do you? At most they've done is 2-3, no more than that.... So what exactly are you saying/asking here?

  • 2015 Order 1886 and Bloodborne
  • 2017 only big game was Horizon: Zero dawn.
  • 2018 2 big games were Spiderman and God of War
  • 2019 2 big games were Days Gone and Death Stranding
  • 2020 2 big games Last of us 2 and Ghost of Tsushima and maybe 3rd is Dreams but that's more of AA
Yeah that's 6 big 1st party AAA games EVERY year.
AAA = Big? I think he meant exclusives in which he does have a point. Sony has released 5-6 1st Party IP in previous years and gens.
 
AAA = Big? I think he meant exclusives in which he does have a point. Sony has released 5-6 1st Party IP in previous years and gens.

Those are exclusives.....

and even if they did in previous gens, welcome to new technology and different development times and cycles. Rockstar released many games as well over the course of 7 years, but the last 7 years they still re-releasing GTA. So what are you on about?
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
That's way too much, but then again I don't play every genre. So as long as that is properly spread, it might be fine.
 

Ian Henry

Member
Those are exclusives.....

and even if they did in previous gens, welcome to new technology and different development times and cycles. Rockstar released many games as well over the course of 7 years, but the last 7 years they still re-releasing GTA. So what are you on about?
I misunderstood your point. I thought you said those were the only exclusives from Sony to releases in those years.
 

jakinov

Member
Is 6 AAA exclusive games a year really that hard to imagine? I feel PlayStation and Nintendo pretty much achieve that already.
The output from PlayStation has been really low compared to before. I didn’t count but There’s probably about 0-2 AAA games a year from their first party now. They have pretty large gaps of no games. Nintendo has really ramped up development but I don’t think 6 games a year. At least not what most would consider AAA. AAA refers generally to money and complexity. Games like Mario Aces probbaly take half as much time and cost half as much money to create compared to games with higher graphic requirements and production value (voice acting, motion capturing, cut scenes, big name composers, etc.).
 

Yoboman

Member
He says Sony has more games but is behind in technology and would take years to build it out

What is he referring to?
 

Vawn

Banned
The output from PlayStation has been really low compared to before. I didn’t count but There’s probably about 0-2 AAA games a year from their first party now. They have pretty large gaps of no games. Nintendo has really ramped up development but I don’t think 6 games a year. At least not what most would consider AAA. AAA refers generally to money and complexity. Games like Mario Aces probbaly take half as much time and cost half as much money to create compared to games with higher graphic requirements and production value (voice acting, motion capturing, cut scenes, big name composers, etc.).

What? They've already had Dreams, Last of Us 2, Ghost of Tsushima by this summer. MLB The Show, Spider-Man coming up. Who knows if Ratchet and Clank will release this year too.

We had Nioh 2, Persona 5 Royal too.
 
they are using Microsoft for cloud. The two can not even be compared in terms of infrastructure. MS is aiming for a console hardware quality experience streamed to your tablet without needing a console of your own.
 
Last edited:

Yoboman

Member
They’re clearly still developing what their cloud platform looks like.
PSNow has existed for years, Sony have already developed the front end technology basis to deliver Cloud gaming to the end user. The Azure partnership is a mutually beneficial technology partnership where they are not only sharing tech and learnings both ways but MS Azure Team is providing the server infrastructure for Sony as a client.

Sony is not years behind anybody in the cloud gaming front, in fact they are pioneering it. But they do need to rent server infrastructures and MS Azure happens to be their choice for that
 

MCplayer

Member
PSNow has existed for years, Sony have already developed the front end technology basis to deliver Cloud gaming to the end user. The Azure partnership is a mutually beneficial technology partnership where they are not only sharing tech and learnings both ways but MS Azure Team is providing the server infrastructure for Sony as a client.

Sony is not years behind anybody in the cloud gaming front, in fact they are pioneering it. But they do need to rent server infrastructures and MS Azure happens to be their choice for that
they are definitly not pioneering it... it does exist but streaming ain't even good compared to stadia, Geforce now or Xbox
 

kebaldo

Member
1 AAA per month don't make sense on a marketing point of view... There's a reason why we don't see blockbusters come out every month... You cant drop for example Halo on September, Gears on october and Forza on november because you are feeding the same people with too much stuff and as a result that people don't spend the time you hoped on the game (so less microtransactions, less people speaking about the games on the internet and you kill momentum).

On July event... it's ok to create hype but please go easy with the expectations every one, so if they show less is not that bad and if they show more it's fantastic, just keep calm... Being a gamer is hard enough don't make it harder, we all know how a broken heart feels after a overhyped conference... Sony Ponys, Phil Boys, Nintendo freaks we all know how much it hurts.

they are definitly not pioneering it... it does exist but streaming ain't even good compared to stadia, Geforce now or Xbox

On the "Sony is years behind con the streaming stuff"... I don't think is that dramatic, PsNow needs just an update and a boost in marketing, 1 or 2 crazy games and your on board, but they need to move that ass and make it goood.
And the reality is it's a tecnology that needs 2 parts to work well: 1 a good service, 2 good internet, and the reality is that in 2020 there are allot of "1st world" states that don't have the right power to stand a service like that. I live in Italy and you need to live in a huge city to have a really good internet connection that dosen't create problem's with this tipe of services.
 
Last edited:

noise36

Member
Its the classic, we need to become our competitor quicker than they can become us. Worked for netflix! They spent billions on content in the pursuit of that goal , was really good for the industry.
 
Last edited:

Yoboman

Member
they are definitly not pioneering it... itdoes exist but streaming ain't even good compared to stadia, Geforce now or Xbox
Being there before everybody else is pioneering. PSNow definitely needs some upgrades as we move into next gen eg the upcoming 1080p upgrade and more platforms support, but that's not years behind. Years behind is Nintendo with no solution.
 

Clintizzle

Lord of Edge.
LOL this sounds fake as hell.

If it is true. Poor dev having crazy targets to meet. Quality of games might suffer and MS will regret it.
 
Again, Azure is just a server back end.

You realise that Netflix use Amazon servers despite being a competitor, right? Same sort of business arrangement

Do you know what a cloud is? The server infrastructure is everything. That's what determines performance. In order for Sony to match MS's cloud performance, they would have to pay MS for the horsepower. And they're not going to do that for obvious reasons.
 

MCplayer

Member
Being there before everybody else is pioneering. PSNow definitely needs some upgrades as we move into next gen eg the upcoming 1080p upgrade and more platforms support, but that's not years behind. Years behind is Nintendo with no solution.
Yeah, you definitly forgot about onLive, PsNow is not the first lol
 

Yoboman

Member
Do you know what a cloud is? The server infrastructure is everything. That's what determines performance. In order for Sony to match MS's cloud performance, they would have to pay MS for the horsepower. And they're not going to do that for obvious reasons.
Do you know what a cloud is? It is the server infradtructute, but it is also the front end delivery and software to make it possible for users to actually make use of it. Just because you have a server infrastructure does not mean you're ready to deliver games on it

Sony had their front end sorted and went to market for the best server solution for their needs. MS won that contract. Sony could just as easily have turned to Amazon, Google, IBM, Sales Salesforce etc.

Thinking Sony is at some disadvantage by using MSs servers is as naive as thinking Netflix is at some disadvantage by using Amazon servers
 

jakinov

Member
What? They've already had Dreams, Last of Us 2, Ghost of Tsushima by this summer. MLB The Show, Spider-Man coming up. Who knows if Ratchet and Clank will release this year too.

We had Nioh 2, Persona 5 Royal too.
Some of those aren’t from Sony. I forgot that Sony had MLB.

The context so far is if it’s feasible for Microsoft to reliably push out a AAA game 6 times a year with the studios they own. So games like Persona and Nioh wouldn’t fix because they aren’t even published by Sony or just published By them in certain regions and doesn’t have much to do with their ability to create/pump out games themselves. In my post I also said “first-party” so that would technically also exclude games created by Insomniac, Kojima. When I made my post I was thinking about how Naughty Dog, Santa Monica and others not pushing out games as frequent as they used to and also thinking about all the studios that were killed off.

I also said I didn’t count, but let’s count and let’s say the published exclusives count.

2013 (1-2)
- killzone
- knack (i dunno if this was a big budget game)

2014 (2-4)
- infamous
- drive club
- little big planet (which was done by a contracted third party so depends On you want to count it)
- mlb

2015 (3)
- blood borne (depends)
- until dawn (depends)
- mlb

2016 (4)
- ratchet (Depends)
- mlb
- last guardian
- uncharted

2017 (2-4.5)
- GT
- Horizon
- knack (I dunno how to classify this)
- uncharted (it’s a stand-alone expansion so there’s inherently less of the production and cost involved)
- MLB

2018 (2-4)
- Detroit (depends)
- god of war
- mlb
- Spider-Man (Depends)

2019 (1-3)
- days gone
- death stranding (Depends)
- mlb

2020 (4-4.5)
- dreams
- Ghosts
- last of us
- MLB?
- Spider-Man (Stand-alone expansion)

Average of 3-4 games a year. Average of 2-3 if you account for me forgetting MLB. Even more close when you limit to actual first party.

Also to clarify one thing. When I say “before“, I’m comparing to the PS3 days not last year or the year before.
 
Do you know what a cloud is? It is the server infradtructute, but it is also the front end delivery and software to make it possible for users to actually make use of it. Just because you have a server infrastructure does not mean you're ready to deliver games on it

Sony had their front end sorted and went to market for the best server solution for their needs. MS won that contract. Sony could just as easily have turned to Amazon, Google, IBM, Sales Salesforce etc.

Thinking Sony is at some disadvantage by using MSs servers is as naive as thinking Netflix is at some disadvantage by using Amazon servers

Sony having to use Microsoft's cloud is absolutely a disadvantage if they are trying to compete with Microsoft in that space. To return to your Netflix example, that would be like Netflix attempting their own cloud computing division by purchasing more Amazon servers. It could only ever be as fast and performant as they are willing to pay Amazon for, and Amazon could shut it down at any time.
 

Rolla

Banned
That was written by either timdog or one of the people on his podcast. Notice how the leaker says absolutely nothing of merit?

Netflix isn't putting out a blockbuster month in month out and they take 8 months - a year to create?
 

Business

Member
Sony having to use Microsoft's cloud is absolutely a disadvantage if they are trying to compete with Microsoft in that space. To return to your Netflix example, that would be like Netflix attempting their own cloud computing division by purchasing more Amazon servers. It could only ever be as fast and performant as they are willing to pay Amazon for, and Amazon could shut it down at any time.

You think Amazon can shut down Netflix anytime because they are the providers of the servers Netflix uses? Yikes.

PlayStation can absolutely stay on top of XBox using Microsoft’s technology.
 
Last edited:

Yoboman

Member
Sony having to use Microsoft's cloud is absolutely a disadvantage if they are trying to compete with Microsoft in that space. To return to your Netflix example, that would be like Netflix attempting their own cloud computing division by purchasing more Amazon servers. It could only ever be as fast and performant as they are willing to pay Amazon for, and Amazon could shut it down at any time.
Sony isn't trying to be a cloud infrastructure provider, they are providing a gaming service that operates in the cloud. Just like Netflix isn't trying to be a cloud service provider, they are plugging their service into Amazon cloud servers.

Yes Microsoft could throttle Sony, price gouge them, or whatever dumb ideas you think could happen. Which would also leave them open to breach of contract, lawsuits and tens of millions of dollars in lost business from a potential cash cow when Sony goes to a different provider. Plus repercussions of treating a client like that when the entire business model of Azure survives off of client service. The real world operates as a business, it doesn't feed off fanboy fantasies
 
Sony isn't trying to be a cloud infrastructure provider, they are providing a gaming service that operates in the cloud. Just like Netflix isn't trying to be a cloud service provider, they are plugging their service into Amazon cloud servers.

Yes Microsoft could throttle Sony, price gouge them, or whatever dumb ideas you think could happen. Which would also leave them open to breach of contract, lawsuits and tens of millions of dollars in lost business from a potential cash cow when Sony goes to a different provider. Plus repercussions of treating a client like that when the entire business model of Azure survives off of client service. The real world operates as a business, it doesn't feed off fanboy fantasies

I'm not the one being a fanboy here dude. The factor that will determine the success of a company's cloud gaming service is performance. Microsoft owns the infrastructure that Sony is paying for a piece of. Microsoft has the infrastructure to serve up the best cloud performance AND to sell some of that performance to a competitor. You have to have fanboy blinders on to not see how that is a disadvantage for Sony.
 

Vawn

Banned
In my post I also said “first-party” so that would technically also exclude games created by Insomniac,

Insomniac IS Sony first-party.

Why does it matter if games are first-party or not anyway? An exclusive is an exclusive.

You also left out games such as The Order, Tearaway, Astrobot, First Light, Left Behind, Gravity Rush, Shadow of the Colossus, Farpoint, Wipeout Omega, Blood & Truth.
 
Last edited:

reforen

Member
I mean, it really isn’t that surprising honestly. I have pondered a few times about MS releasing one game every month for the first year or two simply because of the crazy amount of studios and teams they have. They have 14 studios with at least 23 teams as well as a publishing arm with what’s rumored to be 5 or 6 unannounced games.

And I mean hell, even if their 15 studios all had one team each and assuming all games had a 3 year dev cycle they could have 5 games a year. Releasing at least 6 games in a year isn’t totally unsurprising, but when you look at the logistics having those be AAA doesn’t look good:

343 - at least 1 team AAA
The Coalition - at least 1 team AAA
Rare - will likely have AAA budgets from now on if Everwild is successful if that’s not already AAA
Turn 10 - 1 AAA team
Playground games - 2 AAA teams
Ninja Theory - 1 AAA team (Hellblade 2 team)
Undead Labs - has desire to be AAA
The initiative - AAA studio. Possibly “AAAA” which is a BS term
InXile - 1 AAA team.
Obsidian - 2 AAA teams

So not even including Global Publishing, there are at least 11 AAA teams. So definitely not enough for 6 AAA games a year outside of them having a shit ton of AAA games though global publishing which likely wouldn’t even work for them that well.
And what about any 3rd party exclusive?
 

jakinov

Member
Insomniac IS Sony first-party.

Why does it matter if games are first-party or not anyway? An exclusive is an exclusive.
They are now. I even acknowledged that in my post as I put in brackets

And it matters because we're not talking about exclusives. We're just talking about a company pushing studios with what studios they own so a company with a one-off contract wouldn't be all that relevant. It also matters because when you argue with what I'm saying, you need to look at it within the context of what I'm saying. Not argue against something I didn't say. I'm not arguing that PlayStation 4 has no exclusives. I was explicitly talking about first party output.
 

The Alien

Banned
Think there might be some confusion with this "semi-legit insider".

With 15 studios (+ rumored additions), they could release 4 first party games a year (or one every 3 months).

I dont see those games being AAA though.
Microsoft seems to have set up their studios to have 2 teams turning out games. So it's possible, just not all AAA.
 
Top Bottom