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[El_Tiguere]

There is personal responsibility in managing our finances, and then there are systemic global imbalances between the power of corporations and the dwindled power of labor (the Powell Memo in the 1970's ushered the corporate coup d'etat on our government, and THIS is one of the primary consequences). I 100% believe we are at historically extreme levels of inequality (facilitated by the marriage of government and corporations), and we are seeing it manifest in the political instability, the loss of hope, the lack of trust in institutions, the rise in tension among racial/social groups, massive worker insecurity/anxiety leading to devastating drug epidemics, and in the erosion of America as a society.

Vast number of Americans live paycheck to paycheck

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/americans-living-paycheck-to-paycheck/

Almost 8 out of 10 American workers say they live paycheck to paycheck to make ends meet, according to a new survey from CareerBuilder. That can force people to take on debt or otherwise struggle when an unexpected bill arises. It also raises questions about the stability of the broader economy given that consumer spending accounts for more than two-thirds of activity.

The survey highlights a troubling trend in household finances: More than eight years since the end of the recession, the share of Americans who are living on the financial edge is growing, said Mike Erwin, a spokesman for CareerBuilder. While some may want to blame Americans' spendthrift ways, Erwin pointed to two trends that continue to put financial stress on households: stagnant wages and the rising cost of everything from education to many consumer goods.

"Living paycheck to paycheck is the new way of life for U.S. workers," he said. "It's not just one salary range. It's pretty much across the board, and it's trending in the wrong direction."

A year ago, about 75 percent of U.S. workers said they were living from payday to payday, a number that has grown to 78 percent this year. The study, conducted by Harris Poll, surveyed nearly 2,400 hiring and human resource managers and 3,500 adult employees who worked full-time in May and June.

With the Bureau of Labor Statistics reporting about 122 million full-time workers, the poll suggests 95 million of those adults could be living paycheck to paycheck. Through July, average hourly earnings were up 2.5 percent, according to labor data -- that's still below the 3 percent to 4 percent gains seen before the recession.

Weak wage growth is partly to blame for the financial stress felt by many Americans. Median household income is still stuck in low gear, with the U.S. Census reporting only one year of income gains since 2007, the year the recession officially started.

The end result: American households are still earning 2.4 percent below what they brought home at their income peaks in 1999. At the same time, expenses for food, fuel, education, housing and other costs have risen.

"Jobs have come back, but we haven't seen salaries rebound," Erwin said. "Right now we are in a time when the cost of living is way outpacing the amount of money that people are getting through raises."

Meanwhle, the labor market is increasingly rewarding workers with higher levels of education and skills, which is borne out in CareerBuilder's survey and other recent research.

About 40 percent of adults with a high school degree or less said they are scrambling to keep afloat, or more than twice the number of Americans with at least a college degree, according to the Federal Reserve. CareerBuilder found that about half of workers who earn less than $50,000 per year are always living paycheck-to-paycheck, compared with 28 percent of those earning between $50,000 to $100,000.

Personal responsibility does play a role in Americans' financial problems, with the survey finding that only a third of workers stick to a budget. Asked what spending items they wouldn't give up, more than half said they'd never cut back on their internet connection or mobile devices.

That might seem like an extravagance to some, yet the truth is many Americans can't work effectively without internet service at home or a smartphone, with employers increasingly expecting workers to check their email while they're out of the office or be available for a call.

EDIT: One quick edit to show the flip side: Corporations and shareholders have borrowed TRILLIONS in order to cash themselves out by the TRILLIONS since 2009 (instead of salary/wage raises or investments into the economy). It truly is a zero sum game between investors and labor.

A stock ploy undermining the US economy
https://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/08/ybacks-are-killing-economic-growth.html

 

[frontovik]

So it's either they're not budgeting properly or the job market continues to pay poorly?

 

[Big Blue]

So it's either they're not budgeting properly or the job market continues to pay poorly?

COL is outpacing wages by a mile.

 

[Rocketz]

So it's either they're not budgeting properly or the job market continues to pay poorly?

Student debt doesn't help trust me

 

[PoorChoices]

So it's either they're not budgeting properly or the job market continues to pay poorly?

Yes.

 

[Bedameister]

That's fucking depressing.

 

[entremet]

Being house poor can be a thing. Mortgages are not always a blessing. We also push homeownership like a religion.

 

[family_guy]

So it's either they're not budgeting properly or the job market continues to pay poorly?

They have kids they can't afford.

 

[djplaeskool]

So it's either they're not budgeting properly or the job market continues to pay poorly?

Little of column A, a lot of column B.
Wages haven't kept up with various components of inflation for decades.

One of the reasons why it pays off to change jobs every few years now, unlike in the past. People aren't getting raises reliably anymore.

 

[lawnchair]

everything is fine here.

 

[Foffy]

Dat precariat.

Sooner or later this shit is gonna collapse, and it will not be good at all.

 

[entremet]

Little of column A, a lot of column B.
Wages haven't kept up with various components of inflation for decades.

Well, housing and education more specifically.

Computers are way cheaper for example.

 

[nicoga3000]

Student debt doesn't help trust me

My wife and I both make pretty good money, but out student loan debt is fucking stupid

Spoiler

something something $1500/mo

. We don't quite live paycheck to paycheck, but it's damn close.

 

[mugurumakensei]

So it's either they're not budgeting properly or the job market continues to pay poorly?

Both. Wages are stagnant, and the cost of necessities )including smartphones which are a necessity for a lot of jobs these days) is rising. That means base expenditures are higher than they've ever been. Most people aren't sticking to a budget due to classical keeping up with the Jones syndromes.

 

[aeolist]

Well, housing and education more specifically.

Computers are way cheaper for example.

housing, education, and healthcare.

which are 3 fundamental necessities. cheaper computers hardly make a drop in the bucket.

 

[Protein]

If they just worked harder they wouldn't have to. Why not get a fourth job? Why can't they just buy more money?

 

[Foffy]

If they just worked harder they wouldn't have to. Why not get a fourth job? Why can't they just buy more money?

Their fourth job is the job that doesn't pay because it's about exposure.

 

[Vanillalite]

Fix healthcare and get it out of the private sector.

Then watch a ton of the other dominos fall into place.

 

[Sectorseven]

We really need schools to start teaching personal finance.

 

[zer0das]

I understand why people don't want to cut back on their mobile devices, but switching to prepaid has saved me a few thousand dollars over the course of 4-5 years. The lack of options for internet is really annoying though, it is basically whatever you have in your area (which is perhaps one or two companies if you're in a rural area).

But neither of those would be that much of a problem if incomes just went up.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Just keep suppressing wages and sending it all to the top, it's going to trickle down...one day...

 

[aeolist]

increasing wages isn't enough at this point. we need to be actively and heavily taking wealth back from the top and redistributing it.

 

[Guevara]

If 78% of American workers suffer from the same thing, I'm not going to blame it on American workers.

 

[entremet]

housing, education, and healthcare.

which are 3 fundamental necessities. cheaper computers hardly make a drop in the bucket.

I agree.

 

[Foffy]

We really need schools to start teaching personal finance.

That doesn't help when an entire generation has, from a purely monetary sense, been decoupled from society.

Look at the median income for Millennials. They're the majority of Americans who fail to make an income that's simply double the poverty line. About 38% all Americans fit into that category, so a third of Americans are already left behind.

Personal finance don't mean shit when the precariat class is being left to starve. The idea of pensions, of retirement plans, are a fucking Google search concept and not an actual reality to the lives of tens of millions of Americans.

Simply put, the socioeconomic system we have is broken down. You need a literal revolution to fix this.

Imagine giving every one of those states an additional $12,000 via UBI. The world of difference in stress and stability would be massive.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

increasing wages isn't enough at this point. we need to be actively and heavily taking wealth back from the top and redistributing it.

Seize

The

Means

 

[Clockwork]

To be fair, living paycheck to paycheck can include the "I make a shit ton of money but have to pay for this new house, two new cars, boat, family vacations, college for 3 kids, our constant dining out and entertainment budget, etc" demographic as well.

 

[EchoChamber]

78% of the American workers eat avocado toast.

 

[Foffy]

To be fair, living paycheck to paycheck can include the "I make a shit ton of money but have to pay for this new house, two new cars, boat, family vacations, college for 3 kids, our constant dining out and entertainment budget, etc" demographic as well.

But when nearly 40% of Americans make >$24,000, that narrative is nothing more than an excuse.

Don't entertain it.

 

[Jonnax]

To be fair, living paycheck to paycheck can include the "I make a shit ton of money but have to pay for this new house, two new cars, boat, family vacations, college for 3 kids, our constant dining out and entertainment budget, etc" demographic as well.

How many people are in that demographic?
Negligible, I'm sure.

But that's the kind of thing a politician would say to disreguard the troubles of the poor.

 

[Quixzlizx]

That doesn't help when an entire generation has, from a purely monetary sense, been decoupled from society.

Look at the median income for Millennials. They're the majority of Americans who fail to make an income that's simply double the poverty line. About 38% all Americans fit into that category, so a third of Americans are already left behind.



Personal finance don't mean shit when the precariat class is being left to starve. The idea of pensions, of retirement plans, are a fucking Google search concept and not an actual reality to the lives of tens of millions of Americans.

Simply put, the socioeconomic system we have is broken down. You need a literal revolution to fix this.

Imagine giving every one of those states an additional $12,000 via UBI. The world of difference in stress and stability would be massive.

This chart includes students and other people who aren't trying to be full-time workers, from what I recall.

I'm sure it's still not great even when you take those people out.

 

[Kimawolf]

Cost of living is shit in America. Pay stagnated as everything (including 1% of America) grew by leaps and bounds.

America is slowly setting itself up for several revolutions at once.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

That doesn't help when an entire generation has, from a purely monetary sense, been decoupled from society.

Look at the median income for Millennials. They're the majority of Americans who fail to make an income that's simply double the poverty line. About 38% all Americans fit into that category, so a third of Americans are already left behind.



Personal finance don't mean shit when the precariat class is being left to starve. The idea of pensions, of retirement plans, are a fucking Google search concept and not an actual reality to the lives of tens of millions of Americans.

Simply put, the socioeconomic system we have is broken down. You need a literal revolution to fix this.

Imagine giving every one of those states an additional $12,000 via UBI. The world of difference in stress and stability would be massive.

$20k? What the fuck?

 

[foodtaster]

Being house poor can be a thing. Mortgages are not always a blessing. We also push homeownership like a religion.

This is true, however a mortgage is a ridiculous hedge against inflation and rent increases. Combine that with the interest deduction and getting a house *you can afford* is a no brainer. Rent out extra rooms and its overkill (TLDR: once you rent out rooms you can depreciate a percentage of basically everything you'd have to pay anyway, on top of getting rental income).

 

[npm0925]

Why the 1% is not taxed at a 90% rate I'll never understand.

 

[aeolist]

To be fair, living paycheck to paycheck can include the "I make a shit ton of money but have to pay for this new house, two new cars, boat, family vacations, college for 3 kids, our constant dining out and entertainment budget, etc" demographic as well.

i'm sure there are a few people like that in this group but i saw at another story about this that they're singling out non-supervisory workers, so this largely isn't a wealthy class of people

 

[Mistake]

Either you're too poor to pay, or you're making enough to pony up. With kids, car repairs, student, or legal debt, it's hard to stay ahead.

 

[Wet Bloodfart]

In my case it's definitely a combination of poor budgeting and debt. I make good money but haven't been able to find a balance. Still working on it – I finally have a savings account started but its meager and I'll be paying off student loans forever.

 

[Foffy]

This chart includes students and other people who aren't trying to be full-time workers, from what I recall.

I'm sure it's still not great even when you take those people out.

Many are also caught in part-time, gig economy nonsense, and that's about nearly the same percentage of the sub-$24,000 population, at around 40% of the economy.

Taking them out doesn't change a thing. An entire generation has been severed from the "good life" hence why we see constant propaganda that they're the ones killing industries, home ownership, cars, etc.

 

[water_wendi]

Cost of living is shit in America. Pay stagnated as everything (including 1% of America) grew by leaps and bounds.

America is slowly setting itself up for several revolutions at once.

Theres about ten different fuses on Powderkeg America. im guessing that the period we are currently experiencing will be referred to as one of those times of "great confusion." The Republic is in its dying days.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Why the 1% is not taxed at a 90% rate I'll never understand.

Because Americans are convinced that the 1% should lead the country, and dictate how money is divvied out to everyone else. They can't do that and create jobs if all their money is being taken by the greedy government who are terrible at managing funds, and want to "give" that money to poor people.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

My wife and I both make pretty good money, but out student loan debt is fucking stupid

Spoiler

something something $1500/mo

. We don't quite live paycheck to paycheck, but it's damn close.

How much do you owe in student debt?

Why the 1% is not taxed at a 90% rate I'll never understand.

That's a ridiculous amount lol.

 

[Quixzlizx]

In my case it's definitely a combination of poor budgeting and debt. I make good money but haven't been able to find a balance. Still working on it – I finally have a savings account started but its meager and I'll be paying off student loans forever.

Do you actually categorize all of your expenditures each month to see exactly how much you are spending on things, or do you just have vague goals like "I should probably spend less money on partying/video games/etc."?

You might have a WTF moment if you actually tally everything up, if you aren't doing so already.

 

[Usobuko]

It's a sad sight.

More so if you look at the rate the rich is compounding their wealth and you get the idea why it never really trinkle down.

And we are talking about a country with unrivalled cultural and tech dominance in the world and reaps tremendous monetary benefits from it. Only bread crumbs for ya all.

 

[Clockwork]

But when nearly 40% of Americans make >$24,000, that narrative is nothing more than an excuse.

Don't entertain it.

How many people are in that demographic?
Negligible, I'm sure.

But that's the kind of thing a politician would say to disreguard the troubles of the poor.

"CareerBuilder found that about half of workers who earn less than $50,000 per year are always living paycheck-to-paycheck, compared with 28 percent of those earning between $50,000 to $100,000."

"Personal responsibility does play a role in Americans' financial problems, with the survey finding that only a third of workers stick to a budget"

Listen, I am not trying to detract from the plight of the poor/working class. Obviously nobody is getting by on $24,000 a year and we need to address that. Wages have been relatively stagnant for way too long despite increases in productivity and corporate profits. Much of this money is being funneled to the already rich with little trickling down.

At the same time (looking at that $50-100k bracket or higher) it becomes somewhat relative and has more to due with personal financial irresponsibility and less to do with any systemic problem surrounding wages and cost of living. 28% living paycheck to paycheck is a ridiculous percentage for that bracket.

 

[Lime]

meanwhile

 

[Kill3r7]

Being house poor can be a thing. Mortgages are not always a blessing. We also push homeownership like a religion.

Agreed but it is forcing you to invest/save. Life is much harder if you are renting and still living paycheck to paycheck.

 

[Raptomex]

That seems high but maybe it's accurate. I know a lot of people that make decent money and live paycheck to paycheck because they don't save shit or budget their money. Justification is usually "gotta go out" or "only live once". Whatever, it's their lives but I could never live like that. However, I do feel for those that find it hard to make ends meet with how crazy expensive shit can be. Bills, school loans, debt, that stuff piles up if not managed properly.

 

[Wet Bloodfart]

Do you actually categorize all of your expenditures each month to see exactly how much you are spending on things, or do you just have vague goals like "I should probably spend less money on partying/video games/etc."?

You might have a WTF moment if you actually tally everything up, if you aren't doing so already.

I use Simple now, which does the categorization for me. The first month or so was very disheartening and made me feel like a piece of shit.

 

[RMI]

wage growth has been truly pathetic for the middle class.