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[jcorb]

I've been into gaming since I was a kid, and I often think about these stories I would hear about here and there about experiences certain teams had working on games back in the day.

Often times, it feels like there's a certain "quality" to older games that isn't really present in a lot of more modern games. I'll often speculate whether it's a product of games just being more ambitious, having access to more resources, whether it's simply modern tastes being different, or -- as I'm starting to wonder more frequently -- if it is related to what the teams *themselves* look like?

For examples, I read "The WoW Diary" last year, and it stood out how much Blizzard changed as a work environment over the years. It's undoubtedly a more professional workplace now (to say nothing of "all that shit" that came out over the past few years), but then that's only one man's experience, and it's easy to apply that lens to other developers, whom you know nothing about.

But similarly, I remember hearing a story from Bungie that after one of the first three Halo games came out, they wound up meeting up with a ton of fans and having a house party. The stuff of nightmares for anyone working in HR or PR, but I wonder sometimes if that doesn't speak to a deeper, more fundamental difference with a lot of modern developers?

I'd just really be interested in hearing some of the experiences of those who've worked in the Gaming industry at any point over the years. Whether your experiences were just at a certain point, or if you've been in the industry for long enough to be able to say in which ways it has (or maybe hasn't) changed over the years. Was it always "just a job" for you? Did it feel like "hanging out with your friends" when you were developing games? Did it feel "corporate" like any white-collar job does today? Or even those working on games today, how professional does your work environment seem? Do you feel like you have the freedom to pitch ideas, even outside of your specific purview, or do you feel pressure to "stay in your lane" and only worry about what you specifically are tasked to work on?

 

[IAmRei]

I only ever works with small studios, mostly underground though. And my studio is small as well now. I think people will be hard to answer since NDA is quite strict if you worked even in medium sized game dev studio. Let alone big names above.

 

[Kataploom]

Is there even a dev using GAF without fearing cancelling? I may be wrong but I think I read somewhere it was the case, if not, I'm definitely open to read your stories guys and gals

 

[Chittagong]

Is there even a dev using GAF without fearing cancelling? I may be wrong but I think I read somewhere it was the case, if not, I'm definitely open to read your stories guys and gals

Well, if the the home page counter is working properly, there seems to always be around 300 members discussing stuff and around 6000 lurkers. I think it’s a fair possibility that those thousands include a lot of devs who fear cancellation.

 

[Bernoulli]

I only ever works with small studios, mostly underground though. And my studio is small as well now. I think people will be hard to answer since NDA is quite strict if you worked even in medium sized game dev studio. Let alone big names above.

How can they enforce the NDA if you don't give details ?

 

[makaveli60]

I think OP already has the point, back then it was video game development that were mostly passion projects, nowadays only hollow corporation moneymaking most of the time

 

[IAmRei]

i dont fear cancelling, as i live in relatively save from usual suspect for cancelling. but again i cannot say what is my company. and beside my company is too small to be noticed by mass.

 

[nush]

Late 90's to mid 2000's, industry was still growing and had reached mainstream with the OG Playstation. Lot's of money going round, and the corporations hadn't sucked the soul out of everything and the inevitability of being laid off wasn't a worry. The offices were pretty relaxed although there were times you had to put in the graft of course. Trade shows were amazing an all expenses paid busmans holiday. Nobody was sexually assaulted in the offices on a regular basis.

and if you worked in the industry, you should never have to pay for your games.

 

[IAmRei]

How can they enforce the NDA if you don't give details ?

as long as i remember, if the big brass want it, they can track You.
not if you are working in small team thought. the NDA usually worked if You entered bigger scale.

 

[IAmRei]

and if you worked in the industry, you should never have to pay for your games.

i kind of recall keiji infune have megaman 1/2(?) as bonus from capcom.

 

[MrRibeye]

Back in 2008 the guys at Monolith promoted F.E.A.R. 2 by running a website called www.whatisfear.com and uploaded videos there of themselves getting drunk over Xmas while discussing the game. Best guys ever, I loved seeing how much fun they have making the game and talking about it. That's been eradicated off the internet.

Around the same time, many of the top dogs at Sony got drunk on beach holidays together and the success of Assassin's Creed 2 led to the infamous strip club meetings at Ubisoft.

That's what people now call frat boy culture, but it was just guys forming friendships over alcohol, giving them liquid courage to point out issues on the project and building trust with each other.

 

[MrRenegade]

There is your answer:

50 Years of Video Game Industry Revenues, by Platform

As technology has evolved, so too has the video game industry, consumer preferences, and drivers of growth. We do a deep dive.

www.visualcapitalist.com

Too much money wrecks everything. Suits, fortune hunters, gold diggers, money lovers with highly evolved underhanded skill sets that the genuinely passionate creatives do not possess, gonna home in and suck the life out of everything.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

Is there even a dev using GAF without fearing cancelling? I may be wrong but I think I read somewhere it was the case, if not, I'm definitely open to read your stories guys and gals

You'd be surprised how many of them do use these forums.

 

[RJMacready73]

Is there even a dev using GAF without fearing cancelling? I may be wrong but I think I read somewhere it was the case, if not, I'm definitely open to read your stories guys and gals

Sure the main man who did The Order posted a few bits the other week

 

[leizzra]

From my experience - there is too much corpo crap nowadays. I worked in company that started as kind of a rebels and through years changed into a corporation. They still say that we are different but we don't. And this kills creativity in my opinion.

Too many producers that don't know a thing about development. Most of them are here just to fill in excel forms and set up a pointless meetings. And they are being paid a lot for that. Also you can't make something extra (like Naughty Dog does in their games) because producers have different plans.

There are people for whom it's just a job and I don't think it's a bad thing. Problem is when they don't have a lead that is more passionate about making games. Then you have a half-baked tasks and you can't do anything about it. There are also I'd say more casual employees that are happy that they are working in the industry and they like games. They just don't have ambitions to make great games. Often people that have passion and good ideas are not being listened to.

There is also a problem with people that don't have a vision of the project. I'm a person that have mostly clear idea about projects that we are working on, but the management don't. They are always in this "we are searching for vision" mode. I am shocked about their lack of imagination. Then they are supported by people that are tapping their shoulders with every decision. When you say the truth they are like - yeah, whatever, lets get back to the topic.

There is also a problem with decision making process. Too many people have too many to say (like producer, art director, creative director, lead concept artist, etc.) and then if you are working with a publisher or different studio, you have a whole ladder of people that need to accept the stuff. It's exhausting and time consuming.

This is just a few things that I think don't work in bigger studios. I need to point out that it also doesn't have to look like this in every other company, but from my experience and what I'm hearing it is very similar. That's why I will never work in a bigger studio (there is one that people adore) because it'll be even worse and you are just a small cog in the big machine.

 

[Porcile]

I know a few people who have been in the industry for years. I think they have pretty much all experienced so many cancelled projects and being laid off over the years (right when it seemed they would be able to get their own project off the ground) that their dreams have been crushed and now they just do it as a job and it's not really a creative passion anymore.

 

[jcorb]

Back in 2008 the guys at Monolith promoted F.E.A.R. 2 by running a website called www.whatisfear.com and uploaded videos there of themselves getting drunk over Xmas while discussing the game. Best guys ever, I loved seeing how much fun they have making the game and talking about it. That's been eradicated off the internet.

Around the same time, many of the top dogs at Sony got drunk on beach holidays together and the success of Assassin's Creed 2 led to the infamous strip club meetings at Ubisoft.

That's what people now call frat boy culture, but it was just guys forming friendships over alcohol, giving them liquid courage to point out issues on the project and building trust with each other.

That's honestly something that I think about a lot. Those obviously aren't "professional" work environments, but having worked in white-collar offices long enough, I often wonder how much more I might've enjoyed trying to make some kind of start-up developing video games with friends or guys I got along with, solely for what we might *want* to create.

Obviously, we've seen where "frat boy culture" has sometimes led to some pretty heinous shit (again, just look at what happened with Blizzard), but I can't imagine being able to create something truly fun, that people are passionate about, if you yourself aren't having fun or passionate about what you're creating.

I suppose the issue is that create games at the level of a AAA publisher, it probably requires a lot more talent than you're likely to find in just circles of "people you enjoy working with". I imagine most established developers are probably pretty efficient at producing high-quality content (even if it lacks a bit of "soul" much of the time). The term "indie game" is pretty meaningless, as it can refer to anything from a one-man show, to a company with millions of dollars and over a hundred employees. And is there even an audience that's hungry for games, that would accept lower-quality content for the sake of more interesting titles? I don't really know. Maybe?

But regardless, it's still fun hearing about those kinds of stories. I'm sure people dealt with just as much vitriol from certain "fans" even back then, but it often seems like back in the day, games were being made *by* gamers, *for* gamers. These days, it seems like most development studios are super corporate, which doesn't seem like it would make for a super fun work environment.

 

[Hypereides]

Know folks who worked at IO (original Hitman) and Take2 (Mafia II). Both switched to other lifelong careers early on and never looked back at gamedev. Both are making a good living now.

The work culture is radically different now. Especially, in the corporate sphere. Now, its probably just "another job" for most in the biz and not a place where nerds could dick and play around. Its a shame really, 'cause the best and most memorable video games were a result of that culture.

Make what you will with that information.

 

[nush]

Know folks who worked at IO (original Hitman) and Take2 (Mafia II). Both switched to other lifelong careers early on and never looked back at gamedev.

That's common, "I work in IT now, it's boring but at least it pays much better and has better job security". Was a common thing to hear.

 

[Pasta la Vista]

At work right now so I don't have time to add anything but I worked for Activision, EA and Square Enix in the early 2000's. I posted about it before, but I will add my input when I get home.

 

[midnightAI]

I have a small story about my past, nothing too interesting really but its the first experience I had.

A long long time ago.....
Erm, I mean, a long time ago I used to be involved with the Amiga Demo scene doing gfx, mostly pixel art (or still considered to be pixel art) using Deluxe Paint, anyway, I formed a demoscene group at once point and managed to get some coders, musicians etc. and one coder in particular was really good, coming up with effects I had never seen before on the Amiga and he introduced me to a new musician who was ridiculous, you could tell him to make a tune like X and he'd have a 5 minute tune made in less than half an hour using Sound Tracker (or whichever tracker he used, think it was that), it was bonkers (seriously good music too). We did really well in the demo compos and such for a little while but it wasnt long before we had the brainwave to make a game for the Amiga.

The game was a platform game, similar in style to Bubble Bobble and Snow Bros. it was a fun little game.

It wasn't long at all before we had a prototype of the game up and running (a lot of the work was actually done in a single week) and around came CES (Consumer Electronics Show) in the UK which had the first day there tailored to publishers and game devs rather than the public. SO we decided to pop along and try and talk to publishers, which went well, wait, no, went horribly no-one wanted to talk to us at all, not because of the game, they didnt even want to listen to what that was about, no, it was because they saw the Amiga at the time as no longer a platform they was interested in, this was 1993, the Amiga was dying a slow death, mostly because of the CD32.

Anyhoo, not long after that the coder got a job with Sony (I heard he worked on MediEvil, not sure how true that was but hopefully so, would be good to know he did well) and so we all lost track after that, short but fun times.

A lot of other people I know from the demo groups I have been in, in the past, are now in pretty good positions in game studios, or are doing some amazing things with realtime graphics (for example Notch (VFX that is, not the Minecraft guy))

Notch - Showcase & VFX Case Studies

Notch is used by talented artists and studios across the globe. Here's a sample of their work on a wide range of fixed installs, productions and projects.

www.notch.one

 

[nush]

around came CES (Consumer Electronics Show) in the UK

That was called the ECTS. Great show when the public were not allowed in and you had to be creative to be able to get a ticket if you were not part of the UK games industry. We knew the owner of a small independent game shop so he signed all of us up as his "Staff" so we could get tickets. Good times.

 

[midnightAI]

That was called the ECTS. Great show when the public were not allowed in and you had to be creative to be able to get a ticket if you were not part of the UK games industry. We knew the owner of a small independent game shop so he signed all of us up as his "Staff" so we could get tickets. Good times.

oh, could have been, it was a long time ago, heh, a lot has happened since then

edit: actually, that looks about right, it would have been at the Business Design Center

 

[Doomtrain]

I've worked a few different places in the industry over the years. My experience is that it varies dramatically by company. I spent years at a mobile studio, and I was amazed at how little people there seemed to care about or understand gaming ("our mobile games will destroy consoles" was a common refrain from management). I'd try to talk to people about old-school gaming, and I'd be met with blank stares. Truly a strange place that I have no desire to ever revisit, but the money was fantastic.

I've never directly worked in AAA, but I have friends who do, and they say it mostly feels like they're cogs in a machine. They'll spend literally all day every day doing minor tasks with very little room for creativity. The money can be good there as well, but the environment sounds boring.

The mid-tier console space is my favorite, because the culture respects and reveres classic gaming. I've had work meetings devolve into hour-long discussions about which NES Mega Man is the best, and I love that, because it shows how passionate everyone is and how knowledgeable everyone is about the minutiae of the craft. The money can be lesser than the others, so it's a tradeoff, but the work itself is fulfilling. This is the space that reminds me the most of how things used to be.

 

[Black_Stride]

Know folks who worked at IO (original Hitman) and Take2 (Mafia II). Both switched to other lifelong careers early on and never looked back at gamedev. Both are making a good living now.

The work culture is radically different now. Especially, in the corporate sphere. Now, its probably just "another job" for most in the biz and not a place where nerds could dick and play around. Its a shame really, 'cause the best and most memorable video games were a result of that culture.

Make what you will with that information.

Most if not all technical jobs that can be converted to other industries......make alot more money in those industries.
I know people think devs have lost passion and are drones but alot of people know they could easily make more money elsewhere while also have a better work/life balance, they stick with gamedev because they actually like games.

Theres not too many dev jobs that cant be translated to another industry.
Now even people on the rendering side of things are finding they are in demand in other industries like Military/TV/Movies/Prodev/Aeronautics/Automotive.....the list goes on.

What is sad, is when people get to bigger companies (whether directly or a publisher buys them) and they get burnt straight out of the industry.

 

[The Infectious Paradox]

I worked on Starfield. Idk what you guys have been complaining about.

 

[nush]

oh, could have been, it was a long time ago, heh, a lot has happened since then

edit: actually, that looks about right, it would have been at the Business Design Center

Correct the OG location for that show. Then it moved to Olympia.

 

[Hypereides]

Most if not all technical jobs that can be converted to other industries......make alot more money in those industries.
I know people think devs have lost passion and are drones but alot of people know they could easily make more money elsewhere while also have a better work/life balance, they stick with gamedev because they actually like games.

Theres not too many dev jobs that cant be translated to another industry.
Now even people on the rendering side of things are finding they are in demand in other industries like Military/TV/Movies/Prodev/Aeronautics/Automotive.....the list goes on.

(...)

I see the reason behind your logic, but it ain't always that simple. There are multiple factors involved. A game developer's skillset may certainly overlap or share some degree of technical resembalnce in related technical fields, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a qualified candidate. Besides that, there are various factors like employment experience and routine which would also weigh substantially on qualifications. An employer would like to know how fast he would be able to integrate you into the organization and get you up to speed. I only speak for experience in my corner of the world though.

I'd like to see a gamedev, with a standard game programming skillset, try to apply for an engineer position in Industrial automation or telecom and see how that goes. Spoiler; it probably wouldn't go very well unless you're like Carmack, who had skills way beyond game programming.

 

[Black_Stride]

I see the reason behind your logic, but it ain't always that simple. There are multiple factors involved. A game developer's skillset may certainly overlap or share some degree of technical resembalnce in related technical fields, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a qualified candidate. Besides that, there are various factors like employment experience and routine which would also weigh substantially on qualifications. An employer would like to know how fast he would be able to integrate you into the organization and get you up to speed. I only speak for experience in my corner of the world though.

I'd like to see a gamedev, with a standard game programming skillset, try to apply for an engineer position in Industrial automation or telecom and see how that goes. Spoiler; it probably wouldn't go very well unless you're like Carmack, who had skills way beyond game programming.

Youll notice I never specified any like for like jobs.
But from second hand experience, i know its not only done, but quite alot of devs actual qualifications arent necessarily game related.
You have to remember within a game studio there are alot of jobs that on paper have absolutely nothing to do with gaming.
Alot of engine engineers are vastly over qualified for the games industry....no disrespect.
The low level (computing wise) guys in gamedev are used to the pressure that other industries may throw at them.


P.S What is "Standard Game Programming".....you mean like in a Game Design uni degree?....Cuz most programmers deep in the industry are just straight up programmer not specifically game programmers.

 

[nush]

I worked on Starfield. Idk what you guys have been complaining about.

You've done it now bro, now you're the reason for everything wrong with that game and everyone will line up to tell you about it. (Things I learned in 2001)

 

[Rat Rage]

There is your answer:

50 Years of Video Game Industry Revenues, by Platform

As technology has evolved, so too has the video game industry, consumer preferences, and drivers of growth. We do a deep dive.

www.visualcapitalist.com

Too much money wrecks everything. Suits, fortune hunters, gold diggers, money lovers with highly evolved underhanded skill sets that the genuinely passionate creatives do not possess, gonna home in and suck the life out of everything.

On point! I've seen it sooo many time across all kinds of media. Once a certain amout of money making is reached, it all goes downhill. Money and greed are really the bane of modern society.