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NPD Sales Results for December 2009

Eteric Rice said:
Well, they'd have to put clauses in there to stop shit like that.

One of the Wii's biggest issues is that it's flooded with shovelware.

If it were me, I'd write that you can only release 6 games a year, including from companies owned. Exceptions can be made for titles of high quality (how you would measure this would be up to Nintendo), but in general B tier and lower would be limited.

I mean fuck, something has to be done.

I guess we should be thankfull that places like Target are telling publishers that do this shit to GTFO.

Shovelware is the problem of any system with high sales and in first place. That's how you know a company has made it by the amount of shovelware you have. Think about the shit ton of shovelware that was on the PS2! It's just par for the course.
 

Eteric Rice

Member
OldJadedGamer said:
Shovelware is the problem of any system with high sales and in first place. That's how you know a company has made it by the amount of shovelware you have. Think about the shit ton of shovelware that was on the PS2! It's just par for the course.

Problem is that it's drowning out titles that might be good. This didn't happen on the PS2. :(
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Eteric Rice said:
Problem is that it's drowning out titles that might be good. This didn't happen on the PS2. :(
Because there are no really good ways for retailers of discerning crap from good on Wii and there is no good way of telling what is going to sell against what won't.
 

Shiggy

Member
Eteric Rice said:
Problem is that it's drowning out titles that might be good. This didn't happen on the PS2. :(

Because there are almost no good Wii 3rd party titles? Games such as Little King's Story are niche titles. Without Mario or Master Chief they would never achieve sales of a million.
Good games which were marketed also get good sales as seen with Nintendo titles.
 
I've often speculated that the 360's success in selling its "game of the week" is offset by a lower average for games that aren't chosen by the hive mind. This data seems to support that conclusion. But that actually seems to be an industry-wide phenomenon: top-heavy sales. And it's nothing new, but I think it's getting worse...or if not, then the bottom part is sinking lower into unsustainability.

It's easy to look at this data and think 3rd parties are nuts. If the Wii has a higher average unit sales by title, and cheaper development costs, then it should be a safer bet, right? But I don't think that's what they're looking at. Nobody wants their game to do the average. They're looking at the peaks, and the 360's peaks are higher than the Wii's (excluding Nintendo, of course). Of course, that means it's valleys are lower, but who cares? There's money to be made, and they'd rather gamble on the 360 than take the Wii's safe bet, especially when that safe bet is becoming more of a gamble (with a smaller payout) as customers become more risk-averse themselves (ie. learn that most 3rd party games aren't good).
 
Golden Darkness said:
Hmmmm...

NPD: Leaked data "incorrect" and "way off"

Anihawk, do you have something to say about this?

GamePro said:
Last week, the Internet worked itself up over some video game sales numbers for January 2010 that popped up on NeoGaf (about two-thirds down page 46 is where the numbers start coming in from user AniHawk). Allegedly, the data was leaked from NPD Group numbers.

Today, GamePro can confirm that those numbers are not official NPD numbers. Furthermore, the NPD says many of the numbers are just plain wrong.

AniHawk said:
Scribblenauts > 800k

Rabbids Go Home > Metroid Prime Trilogy > The Conduit > Excitebots, MadWorld, Overkill

inFamous = Punch-Out > 500k

LBP PSP > 160k

This month, Wario Land > Excitebots (LTD)

A Crack in Time > 250k

Uncharted 2 > 900k

They made it sound like Ani was leaking exact numbers. All he posted was round about LTD's.
 

Rainier

Member
In regards to this specific NeoGAF leak, NeoGAF staff has always worked closely with companies like NPD to ensure its users aren't posting unapproved information. I've not been in the forums in awhile, but I often hear from associates and acquaintances about sales threads and how well the moderators police them. I'm going to assume this is continuing, and that this latest leak was an anomaly and nothing more.

--David Riley
Director, Corp. Marketing
The NPD Group

But how can it be a leak if the numbers were not even right?
 

Fredescu

Member
Road said:
And... Average sales per title (3rd party, excluding MW2):

slide10_l.jpg
Nintendo to third parties: Continue to make PS3/360 games and you'll sell twice as much as a Wii exclusive.
 

jay

Member
Andrex said:
Sarcasm =/= Flat out lying

He went over to lying a long time ago but it's mod endorsed so all you can do is make passive aggressive statements about it like this one.

NPD statement said:
NPD's information is not intended to be dumped into public domain feeding troughs.

Wow, such disdain for public information.
 

donny2112

Member
BlackNMild2k1 said:
They made it sound like Ani was leaking exact numbers. All he posted was round about LTD's.

NPD doesn't want any data posted that they didn't directly approve. Even when jvm has been given data directly from NPD, he usually rounds it/gives it in ranges. NPD is serious about protecting the product that companies pay > $100K per year for.

Fredescu said:
Nintendo to third parties: Continue to make PS3/360 games and you'll sell twice as much as a Wii exclusive.

*facepalm*

They don't add like that. We've been over this already.

Edit:
And that's not even getting to the fact that companies should've had Wii SKUs of major multi-platform titles since Fall 2007 to build an audience there. Not "Wii or PS360." Rather "Wii and PS360."
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
comment to article said:
Sp0rsk

I'm not sure if they bet on it, but I'm pretty sure 90% of neogaf's gaming side has their self-esteem riding on the NPD each month. Without it, they'd have to double the production of sad/scary/corny appreciation threads for the PR reps of faceless corporations to compensate.
:lol
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
BlackNMild2k1 said:
They made it sound like Ani was leaking exact numbers. All he posted was round about LTD's.
It would be funny if someone posted the exact numbers in the comments of that article. It would be stupid because there would be a risk of being caught but it would be funny. :lol
 

Fredescu

Member
donny2112 said:
And that's not even getting to the fact that companies should've had Wii SKUs of major multi-platform titles since Fall 2007 to build an audience there. Not "Wii or PS360." Rather "Wii and PS360."
I agree that they should have, but "or" is the status quo, and those stats don't seem particularly good encouragement to change from those habits.
 

Sipowicz

Banned
tbh i'm more inclined to believe anihawk. hes eems like a good dude and he's been right about this insider stuff before

this just seems to be a butthurt response to the leaked data, and john davidson wasnt above bowing down to his corporate paymasters even at 1UP

also they referred to neogaf as a "public domain feeding trough". I say bring it on you fucks
 

Rainier

Member
Sipowicz said:
this just seems to be a butthurt response to the leaked data, and john davidson wasnt above bowing down to his corporate paymasters even at 1UP

But in this case the numbers posted here were '<' or '>'. Anyone with NPD's numbers will know if they were correct or not. I doubt the NPD would make a press statement saying they were wrong if not true, they'd look like idiots.

Maybe Ani just got fed up with the constant begging for numbers, it was pretty bad this month. Still, I'd rather have no data than incorrect data.
 

Grooski

Banned
donny2112 said:
NPD doesn't want any data posted that they didn't directly approve. Even when jvm has been given data directly from NPD, he usually rounds it/gives it in ranges. NPD is serious about protecting the product that companies pay > $100K per year for.

Same as GfK, but their ninja's are worse than MS's or Sony put together. I aint even telling my wife shit...
 

JJConrad

Sucks at viral marketing
Fredescu said:
I agree that they should have, but "or" is the status quo, and those stats don't seem particularly good encouragement to change from those habits.
I'm not sure you're reading the charts right. It shows a higher average of sales over a far greater number of games. In fact, in the chart you quoted for December if you total all the sales up from the averages, you would have the Wii's third party games outselling the combined 360 and PS3 third party games by about 3 million units.

If third parties truly looked at that chart and thought what you claimed, I'd really pitty this industry.
 

donny2112

Member
Fredescu said:
and those stats don't seem particularly good encouragement to change from those habits.

I think the stats were more about dispelling the "third-party games don't sell on Nintendo consoles" myth than encouraging companies to abandon the PS360.

Edit:
In fact these stats are good encouragement to add a Wii SKU to the mix on a current PS360 game, if it's reasonable to do with the developers available.
 

Jackson

Member
Baki said:
Why do they charge so much for their data?

Because only a few people need it (publishers)... so the price has to go way up.

But I agree it should be more like the box office, free and clear! But its not.
 
JJConrad said:
I'm not sure you're reading the charts right. It shows a higher average of sales over a far greater number of games. In fact, in the chart you quoted for December if you total all the sales up from the averages, you would have the Wii's third party games outselling the combined 360 and PS3 third party games by about 3 million units.

If third parties truly looked at that chart and thought what you claimed, I'd really pitty this industry.

But the data suggest that even with Nintendo handpicking a few months of data where they outsold the PS3/360 combined by over a million units, they still sold less 3rd party software, per title, than either of their competitors.

While MW2 is certainly an outlier, there are frequently months where several of the best-selling 3rd party 360 or PS3 titles are easily 10-50x greater than the average from Oct-Dec, either combined or individually. In other words, December may as big an aberration for Nintendo as November presumably was for MS/Sony, as MS claimed during numerous months in 2009 to have the most 3rd party sales in their NPD PR.
 

Baki

Member
Jackson said:
Because only a few people need it (publishers)... so the price has to go way up.

But I agree it should be more like the box office, free and clear! But its not.

Do you guys pay for it.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I don't understand how rough LTDs of select months old titles could in any way disturb NPD's buisness. Why are they after it so much?
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
nincompoop said:
It sold 2.91 million worldwide through March 2008. Don't know about NPD numbers specifically but between April 2007 and March 2008 it sold ~1.04m, with ~480k sold in Japan and ~550k outside of Japan. Source
Thank you :).
 

donny2112

Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
MS claimed during numerous months in 2009 to have the most 3rd party sales in their NPD PR.

I'm pretty sure that was revenue they were talking about. Microsoft, more often than not in their PRs, focuses on revenue from NPD when comparing to other platforms.
 
donny2112 said:
I'm pretty sure that was revenue they were talking about. Microsoft, more often than not in their PRs, focuses on revenue from NPD when comparing to other platforms.

And I'm sure publishers can appreciate the difference between a game that sells 500k at $59-$69 its first month and then falls off the face of the earth, versus a title that slowly crawls to a million once it has been discounted to $19-$29.

The (comparatively low) average MSRP of Wii 3rd party titles cited by Pachter in his thread further pushes the notion that unit sales are not the be all, end all for a company's bottom line.

The "next gen" tax is obviously a big part of this, but that is part of MS and Sony's business model to attract 3rd parties to expensive HD development. Any time period where the 360 or PS3 are equal or greater than the Wii in unit sales/game, they will be even futher ahead in revenue.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
And I'm sure publishers can appreciate the difference between a game that sells 500k at $59-$69 its first month and then falls off the face of the earth, versus a title that slowly crawls to a million once it has been discounted to $19-$29.

The (comparatively low) average MSRP of Wii 3rd party titles cited by Pachter in his thread further pushes the notion that unit sales are not the be all, end all for a company's bottom line.

The "next gen" tax is obviously a big part of this, but that is part of MS and Sony's business model to attract 3rd parties to expensive HD development. Any time period where the 360 or PS3 are equal or greater than the Wii in unit sales/game, they will be even futher ahead in revenue.

And again, the comparison can't be made straight across; Wii development is cheaper, drastically so in the case of so much of its (crappy) library. And also again, this data isn't meant to "prove" that publishers should be abandoning the PS3/360 in favor of the Wii, but simply that there is success to be found there--even with the lackluster support it's been given. Imagine what might happen if someone really went all-out. Oh wait, we don't have to; Nintendo provides a nice example: some of the best-selling games of all time (most of which were sold at full price months or even years after their release).
 

topramen

Member
Late Bump but from that gamespot interview with cammie we found out Madden10 actually did pretty well on wii. Cammie said that 4 of the top 10 wii titles were third party.

Wii Top 10:
1.NSMB
2.Wii Fit +
3. Wii sports Resort
4. Wii Play
5. Mario Kart Wii
6. Mario and Sonic Vancouver
7. Just Dance
xx. EaActive
xx. Madden10
I wonder what that last nintendo game was?
So madden must have been in the range of 200k for december? or at least higher than COD reflex.
 
Eteric Rice said:
Problem is that it's drowning out titles that might be good. This didn't happen on the PS2. :(

No, the good titles either don't exist or are so niche they virtually drown themselves. I don't think shovelware has much impact on the few quality core games the Wii has, though perhaps MySims Kingdom interfered with the sales of Little King Story.

Fake edit: I see Shiggy already covered this point.
 

wizword

Banned
topramen said:
Late Bump but from that gamespot interview with cammie we found out Madden10 actually did pretty well on wii. Cammie said that 4 of the top 10 wii titles were third party.

Wii Top 10:
1.NSMB
2.Wii Fit +
3. Wii sports Resort
4. Wii Play
5. Mario Kart Wii
6. Mario and Sonic Vancouver
7. Just Dance
xx. EaActive
xx. Madden10
I wonder what that last nintendo game was?
So madden must have been in the range of 200k for december? or at least higher than COD reflex.
Rock Band Beatles
 
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