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[Zachack]

I can't be too mad at Dead Rising, as it's doing something that I want Capcom to continue with (reusing the RE4 engine and control style). However when the Wii is about the same or a little higher than the Xbox in graphical capability and Nintendo can put out gems like Super Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess (a GameCube game) ... yeah.

Looking at Nintendo's output I'd say it takes their very best team (with likely a near-infinite budget) to make something on the level of SMG, and going by what keeps selling month after month it was obviously a waste of money that Business-Savvy Nintendo probably won't make again. Why stretch the duct tape when you can get 3x the sales with end-of-gen GC visuals?

You havent even seen the worst of it. Some of the Private Actions are painful. Even if they were mute, the bizarre body language would cause you to gag.

There are multiple "girl-in-shower" scenes for example...

Zuh? Please explain, SO4 was in the "buy eventually" pile but that cutscene really shoved it to the bottom; adding more fuel to the fire will just purge it entirely.

 

[Aeana]

ITT: People who haven't played Star Ocean 4 judge it based on a single video.

It's a great game (and this is coming from someone who doesn't like action RPGs, or any other game in the Star Ocean series). It deserves to do well.

 

[farnham]

kinda sad about deadly creatures

its a great game

 

[Zachack]

ITT: People who haven't played Star Ocean 4 judge it based on a single video.

It's a great game (and this is coming from someone who doesn't like action RPGs, or any other game in the Star Ocean series). It deserves to do well.

Most of what I read in the SO4 thread was that the combat was outstanding but you had to suffer through some of the worst, most cliched anime garbage in gaming history. Life is too short to waste on something that requires significant effort to dredge out the entertainment value.

 

[dfyb]

ITT: People who haven't played Star Ocean 4 judge it based on a single video.

It's a great game (and this is coming from someone who doesn't like action RPGs, or any other game in the Star Ocean series). It deserves to do well.

i rented it and hated it. after playing tales of vesperia and star ocean 4, it makes me think there's some unwritten rule that action RPGs have to have shitty combat.

 

[Shaheed79]

.

Who will buy 2 to 3x more of anything Resident Evil than we ever anticipated. Maybe we should give them more good games....about Resident Evil.

F*ck that get started on a sloppy low budget port job of Chop till ya drop 2 with motion control slot machines. When they pass that test we'll give them another horrible port down panned by reviewers.

 

[HK-47]

i rented it and hated it. after playing tales of vesperia and star ocean 4, it makes me think there's some unwritten rule that action RPGs have to have shitty combat.

The combat one of the things that isnt shitty. Maybe you loaded up the wrong game

 

[HK-47]

Most of what I read in the SO4 thread was that the combat was outstanding but you had to suffer through some of the worst, most cliched anime garbage in gaming history. Life is too short to waste on something that requires significant effort to dredge out the entertainment value.

You can skip all cutscenes and even get a summary of what happen so you dont have to bother with the VA.

 

[Aeana]

Most of what I read in the SO4 thread was that the combat was outstanding but you had to suffer through some of the worst, most cliched anime garbage in gaming history. Life is too short to waste on something that requires significant effort to dredge out the entertainment value.

Worst in gaming history? People sure have short memories. But this is GAF, where the latest thing is either the best thing ever, or the worst thing ever -- no middle ground. Ever.

i rented it and hated it. after playing tales of vesperia and star ocean 4, it makes me think there's some unwritten rule that action RPGs have to have shitty combat.

Sounds like you just don't like action RPGs. It's usually the same with me, but I enjoyed SO4's combat.

 

[timetokill]

ITT: People who haven't played Star Ocean 4 judge it based on a single video.

It's a great game (and this is coming from someone who doesn't like action RPGs, or any other game in the Star Ocean series). It deserves to do well.

My girlfriend got the game after months of anticipation and played through it. I didn't see that much of it, but I did see enough of both the combat and the story/cutscenes to make (I feel) a pretty informed opinion of it.

- The battles look fun
- The embarrassment meter is through the roof as soon as anybody opens their mouth (except maybe Edge).
- anime bullshit abounds! yaaaaay i finally found some friends
- the dialog and story is atrociously bad
- those

Spoiler

giant pink bunnies

are hilarious and super strange. put them on the box and no straight male buys the game. ever.

 

[Zachack]

Worst in gaming history? People sure have short memories. But this is GAF, where the latest thing is either the best thing ever, or the worst thing ever -- no middle ground. Ever.

This may be a shock but you can address a criticism at the same time that you attack hyperbole. If you really want to get into the "worst animu horseshit ever" I can bust out some TG16 CD references but for all intents and purposes we're really looking at the last couple generations of consoles (when we finally had the disc space to really allow for noxious amounts of anime injected into games), and from what I've read SO4 makes the horrendous, generic, awful shit that infested Tales of Symphonia (and was only slightly improved on in ToV) look like Pynchon.

And no, "you can skip the cutscenes and get a summary" is not a good solution. I think Persona 4 gets pretty trite but if you stripped out the story bits all that's left is a glorified spreadsheet simulation and most of us aren't Drinky Crow.

 

[legend166]

ITT: People who haven't played Star Ocean 4 judge it based on a single video.

It's a great game (and this is coming from someone who doesn't like action RPGs, or any other game in the Star Ocean series). It deserves to do well.

Yeah, but what a video.

 

[BishopLamont]

Looking at Nintendo's output I'd say it takes their very best team (with likely a near-infinite budget) to make something on the level of SMG, and going by what keeps selling month after month it was obviously a waste of money that Business-Savvy Nintendo probably won't make again. Why stretch the duct tape when you can get 3x the sales with end-of-gen GC visuals?

A waste of money? You can't be serious. :lol

 

[AniHawk]

Looking at Nintendo's output I'd say it takes their very best team (with likely a near-infinite budget) to make something on the level of SMG, and going by what keeps selling month after month it was obviously a waste of money that Business-Savvy Nintendo probably won't make again. Why stretch the duct tape when you can get 3x the sales with end-of-gen GC visuals?

SMG did really well. It's still doing really well. And the team is making something right now. I'd have to imagine that they were pleased with the game doing somewhere around 7-8 million copies sold in a little over a year.

 

[Jocchan]

SMG did really well. It's still doing really well. And the team is making something right now. I'd have to imagine that they were pleased with the game doing somewhere around 7-8 million copies sold in a little over a year.

You can't be serious, Ani. SMG bombed hard, you can't even see it in the top 10 anymore. It's obvious that, looking at the charts, WiiFit is the only thing that sells on that machine.

Spoiler

Lolz.

 

[HK-47]

You can't be serious, Ani. SMG bombed hard, you can't even see it in the top 10 anymore. It's obvious that, looking at the charts, WiiFit is the only thing that sells on that machine.

Spoiler

Lolz.

That was totally subtle, man

Awwww yeah man

 

[MechaX]

And no, "you can skip the cutscenes and get a summary" is not a good solution. I think Persona 4 gets pretty trite but if you stripped out the story bits all that's left is a glorified spreadsheet simulation and most of us aren't Drinky Crow.

With that kind of pessimism, why play RPGs to begin with?

 

[CTLance]

Nooooo, Deadly Creatures! Noooooo! I know it's a game about creepy bugs, but please! This can't be all the sales. There must be some sort of rounding error. There has to be. :´(

 

[Vinci]

With that kind of pessimism, why play RPGs to begin with?

Goddamn it, I love spreadsheets!!

Which might be why My Life as a King is still one of my favorite games to play. "Ah yes, the end of the day - DETAILS!!"

EDIT: And yeah, Deadly Creatures bombed. We predicted this pretty much from the moment we heard about it. Seriously, choose a creature humans don't generally hate and things might have gone differently.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Looking at Nintendo's output

Stop right there.

You're judging what Nintendo might be developing by the last 18 months.

This isn't, on its face, entirely batshit insane. But none of the teams that made the games you're praising have actually, like, revealed their current projects yet. They're obviously working on something, and I'm willing to bet it's not Wii Music 2.

 

[Luckyman]

EDIT: And yeah, Deadly Creatures bombed.

<15k is worse than a bomb.

The budget seemed to be in the higher end of 3rd party efforts.

 

[kinggroin]

Goddamn it, I love spreadsheets!!

Which might be why My Life as a King is still one of my favorite games to play. "Ah yes, the end of the day - DETAILS!!"

EDIT: And yeah, Deadly Creatures bombed. We predicted this pretty much from the moment we heard about it. Seriously, choose a creature humans don't generally hate and things might have gone differently.

No they wouldn't. And had they changed it, the appeal would mostly be gone. This game was destined to fail because it had no proper push for whatever audience it was trying to apeal to.

Find it on the shelves and it quite honestly looks no different than those CG art covered crapfests like Anubis and Gingerbread Man.

The game was pretty good, and deserving of making back it's budget plus a lot more; but I honestly have no idea how a strange game like this would be marketed in such a way to prime it for success.

 

[Alcibiades]

Find it on the shelves and it quite honestly looks no different than those CG art covered crapfests like Anubis and Gingerbread Man.

I agree in general most people won't be able to tell the difference, but what sucks even more is that because those games are $20 (or even cheaper) - people will probably spring for them instead of Deadly Creatures thinking the quality is about the same.



$50, despite being worth it in terms of quality of the game, might have been a mistake in this case, because not only will it be ignored by unsuspecting buyers just looking at covers and going for the budget titles, but "core" gamers who've heard the good reviews probably don't want to swallow a $50 price for title that's so experimental.

Sure sales might get a little better with pricedrops, but retailers would probably be reluctant to keep copies on shelves past a few months no matter what.

Of course it doesn't help that the game didn't have advertising, but I think THQ was hoping for word-of-mouth success.

 

[shykyoichi]

Of course, we know how Capcom will interpret these numbers.

It's just a test.:lol

 

[Htown]

<15k is worse than a bomb.

The budget seemed to be in the higher end of 3rd party efforts.

They should have taken the money they gave to Dennis Hopper and Billy Bob Thornton, hired some cheaper voice actors and used the money on advertising instead.

Not that they didn't do a good job, but they only had like ten lines of dialogue each.

 

[Zachack]

SMG did really well. It's still doing really well. And the team is making something right now. I'd have to imagine that they were pleased with the game doing somewhere around 7-8 million copies sold in a little over a year.

Did I say SMG did poorly? Would you mind pointing out that part of my statement, I'm sure you can find it since you seem to think I said otherwise.

Also, where'd the #s come from? I thought it had crossed 6M but haven't seen it on any chart NA/JP since May 08 (when Game Party outsold it, such an atrocity) so I lost track of where it is now.

 

[botticus]

Did I say SMG did poorly? Would you mind pointing out that part of my statement, I'm sure you can find it since you seem to think I said otherwise.

Also, where'd the #s come from? I thought it had crossed 6M but haven't seen it on any chart NA/JP since May 08 (when Game Party outsold it, such an atrocity) so I lost track of where it is now.

You implied that SMG does not keep selling month after month like their apparently much lower budget work.

 

[Vdragoon]

You were saying it was clearly a waste of money.. CLEARLY it is not.

 

[pakkit]

Did I say SMG did poorly? Would you mind pointing out that part of my statement, I'm sure you can find it since you seem to think I said otherwise.

Probably when you called it "a waste of money." But jeez, is your underwear riding up or something? Lighten up, t'is only videogames.

 

[Scrubking]

Capcom explains CTYD numbers.

That was less than a week's worth of sales. Shipped on the 24th.. Feb has 28 days and it wasn't fully in stock until probably the 26th at the earliest. That said, it might be safe to say it isn't setting the world on fire.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Capcom explains CTYD numbers.

And they're going to blame us for it.

Just watch!

 

[Stumpokapow]

it's not setting the world on fire because it's a piece of shit and a full-price rerelease of a game that's not a piece of shit and is available for cheaper on a cheaper console and has been for two and a half years.

by the way did they ever address
CAPCOM USA: WE KNOW RE0/REMAKE WII ARE SCAMS WE KNOW YOU ARE MAD WE WON'T RELEASE THEM
...
CAPCOM USA: We are proud to present two new awesome Resident Evil projects for US RE fans! USA USA USA!

 

[Zachack]

You implied that SMG does not keep selling month after month like their apparently much lower budget work.

Does it, though? It's certainly no Wii Play/Fit. SMG was heavily frontloaded. SSBB pops up in Wii top 10 charts every now and then, as does Link's Crossbow, but unless I missed a month I haven't seen SMG since May, and that chart typically scrapes some pretty low numbers. Granted, SMG could be right under the top 10, but either way it clearly isn't showing the long-term sales potential that MK, Play, or Fit do.

You were saying it was clearly a waste of money.. CLEARLY it is not.

So you think that if you brought the visuals in SMG down to, say, mid-to-late-gen Gamecube visuals, it wouldn't have sold as well?

 

[Scrubking]

by the way did they ever address
CAPCOM USA: WE KNOW RE0/REMAKE WII ARE SCAMS WE KNOW YOU ARE MAD WE WON'T RELEASE THEM
...
CAPCOM USA: We are proud to present two new awesome Resident Evil projects for US RE fans! USA USA USA!

No, and I doubt they will.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

it's not setting the world on fire because it's a piece of shit and a full-price rerelease of a game that's not a piece of shit and is available for cheaper on a cheaper console and has been for two and a half years.

by the way did they ever address
CAPCOM USA: WE KNOW RE0/REMAKE WII ARE SCAMS WE KNOW YOU ARE MAD WE WON'T RELEASE THEM
...
CAPCOM USA: We are proud to present two new awesome Resident Evil projects for US RE fans! USA USA USA!

 

[Zachack]

And they're going to blame us for it.

Just watch!

Looking at sales of Deadly Creatures, HOTD, and (I'm guessing but I think it's a safe bet) Tenchu, I'd blame you, too. You can make up all sorts of excuses about pricing and retail evidence in Nebraska but there was a variety of new "core" Wii games in February and none of them sold well for a system that supposedly has an "underserved" core audience. We're all having a good time making fun of SO4 but it still outsold all of those games and that was with a major AAA release like SF4 doing big numbers (and "2.214-days of sales" Killzone doing so-so) and JRPG fans being heavily catered to over the previous 6 months.

 

[Alcibiades]

Does it, though? It's certainly no Wii Play/Fit. SMG was heavily frontloaded. SSBB pops up in Wii top 10 charts every now and then, as does Link's Crossbow, but unless I missed a month I haven't seen SMG since May, and that chart typically scrapes some pretty low numbers. Granted, SMG could be right under the top 10, but either way it clearly isn't showing the long-term sales potential that MK, Play, or Fit do.

So unless it performs like Wii Fit, Nintendo is just going to pull all their chips on fitness games? No doubt they have people working on a followup to that, but if all of a sudden they released 12 fitness games in one year (which they no doubt have the power to) - people would get fed up. As it is the fitness market is beginning to get crowded, and despite the success of some non-Nintendo games, none have even come close to Wii Fit.

Just because a game doesn't perform like Wii Fit, GTA4, and Halo 3 doesn't mean all companies are going to say "well look at that something is not working for our games lets make only these types of games".

The breadth and depth of Nintendo games (hardcore, casual, mature, non-violent, adventure, platforming, racing, etc...) is one of their great strengths that keeps them the #1 hardware and software maker.

If Nintendo had looked at Double Dash sales (which were OK but nowhere near previous Mario Karts) and decided to hang it up for Mario Kart on consoles they wouldn't have Mario Kart Wii which is ~10 million worldwide.

No matter how expensive they were to make, their traditional blockbuster games (Smash Bros., Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Mario Kart and Twilight Princess) all made money hand over fist and any other publisher would gladly take whatever ROI game from any of those.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Does it, though? It's certainly no Wii Play/Fit. SMG was heavily frontloaded. SSBB pops up in Wii top 10 charts every now and then, as does Link's Crossbow, but unless I missed a month I haven't seen SMG since May, and that chart typically scrapes some pretty low numbers. Granted, SMG could be right under the top 10, but either way it clearly isn't showing the long-term sales potential that MK, Play, or Fit do.

Based on continued shipments a year and a half later and Nintendo quarterly shipment updates, SMG should be at almost 4 million in the US. Worldwide shipments are around 8 million.

 

[Big-E]

ITT: People who haven't played Star Ocean 4 judge it based on a single video.

It's a great game (and this is coming from someone who doesn't like action RPGs, or any other game in the Star Ocean series). It deserves to do well.

No. Star Ocean 4 really is a bad game. It is the very definition of generic. Nothing in the game is done as well as Tales of Vesperia. At the end I was actually skipping cutscenes, something I have never done while playing a JRPG or any game for that matter. The Game is laughable.

 

[gkryhewy]

Looking at sales of Deadly Creatures, HOTD, and (I'm guessing but I think it's a safe bet) Tenchu, I'd blame you, too. You can make up all sorts of excuses about pricing and retail evidence in Nebraska but there was a variety of new "core" Wii games in February and none of them sold well for a system that supposedly has an "underserved" core audience. We're all having a good time making fun of SO4 but it still outsold all of those games and that was with a major AAA release like SF4 doing big numbers (and "2.214-days of sales" Killzone doing so-so) and JRPG fans being heavily catered to over the previous 6 months.

Given typical Wii sales trajectories, one, two, or all of those FEB releases will probably have double the LTD sales of SO4 six months from now.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Wait.

Why the fuck are you guys even acknowledging this "Nintendo has no Impetus to make MARIO FUCKING PLATFORMERS" anyway?

 

[Alcibiades]

Looking at sales of Deadly Creatures, HOTD, and (I'm guessing but I think it's a safe bet) Tenchu, I'd blame you, too. You can make up all sorts of excuses about pricing and retail evidence in Nebraska but there was a variety of new "core" Wii games in February and none of them sold well for a system that supposedly has an "underserved" core audience. We're all having a good time making fun of SO4 but it still outsold all of those games and that was with a major AAA release like SF4 doing big numbers (and "2.214-days of sales" Killzone doing so-so) and JRPG fans being heavily catered to over the previous 6 months.

Well, to be fair, hardcore niche releases on any console have a hard time selling (which is why Okami didn't fair all that much better on PS2 than on Wii despite a much bigger audience).

Rather than blame Wii owners for not buying these well-received but not blockbuster AAA games, blame them when AAA blockbuster games on Wii fail (currently there have been none that have bombed - just look at RE4 which sold 1.4 million copies).

The underserved "core" audience on Wii, while some subset of them enjoys these games (just as some on PS3/360 would like them as well) would probably be better served with epic, grand-scale AAA releases like GTA4, RE5, SF4, etc...

If there was no "core" audience on Wii to serve, then COD3 wouldn't have sold more on Wii than on PS3 and World at War wouldn't have been one of the top-selling 3rd party titles on Wii this past holiday.

Those games (Tenchu, Deadly Creatures, and HOTD: Overkill) certainly deserve to do a lot better and be in more hands, just as much as games like Zack and Wiki, No More Heroes, Blast Works, and Geometry Wars Galaxies deserve to do better.

But in no way should a successful and established epic and expensive RPG be compared to the 3 games you just mentioned, which barely got any exposure and which came out at $50.

Even "core" gamers interested in these games are gonna have a hard time shelling out money for these games at full price. Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros., Metroid Prime 3, etc... all obviously got huge budgets and were worked on for years by large, talented teams with proven records.

Not that these games don't deserve it, but full-price is asking for a lot (especially of a light-gun game). It's not that gamers have anything against these games, but just as many people waited for price drops on Boom Blox because $50 was a bit much for a puzzle game, no doubt some people are eager to play these but just not at full price.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

...and how many of those games got the marketing that SO4 got?

 

[Zachack]

Wait.

Why the fuck are you guys even acknowledging this "Nintendo has no Impetus to make MARIO FUCKING PLATFORMERS" anyway?

Is that really what you think I said? Really? I know being a fanboy means that you like to pick and choose what you read, but maybe you should get your shallow breathing under control, eat a cookie, and try again.

Given typical Wii sales trajectories, one, two, or all of those FEB releases will probably have double the LTD sales of SO4 six months from now.

This assumes that retailers will continue to stock those games. The evergreen model that some people just love to flog does not apply to every title, and saying "well, they just need to lower the price" is bad.

Based on continued shipments a year and a half later and Nintendo quarterly shipment updates, SMG should be at almost 4 million in the US. Worldwide shipments are around 8 million.

Thanks Stumpy.

 

[Tiktaalik]

random new title:

STAR OCEAN 4 < 70,000
DEADLY CREATURES < 15,000
DEAD RISING: CHOP TILL YOU DROP < 15,000
LOCOROCO 2 < 25,000
PRINNY < 15,000
PUZZLE QUEST: GALACTRIX < 10,000
BLUE DRAGON PLUS < 5,000

Well I'm pretty happy that Dead Rising Wii bombed because that deserved it. Deadly Creatures bombing is a bit of a shame, but it looks like it got hit by the same curse as Monster Lab, that is not enough marketing.

Loco Roco 2 was kinda snuck out on to the market as well, with not nearly as much marketing as Loco Roco 1. I guess after Loco Roco 1 they sort of got what the expectations for the title were and scaled back accordingly.

Real bad sales for Blue Dragon Plus. Shane Nooooooooooooo!!

 

[Eteric Rice]

Well I'm pretty happy that Dead Rising Wii bombed because that deserved it. Deadly Creatures bombing is a bit of a shame, but it looks like it got hit by the same curse as Monster Lab, that is not enough marketing.

Loco Roco 2 was kinda snuck out on to the market as well, with not nearly as much marketing as Loco Roco 1. I guess after Loco Roco 1 they sort of got what the expectations for the title were and scaled back accordingly.

Real bad sales for Blue Dragon Plus. Shane Nooooooooooooo!!

I don't think advertising would have helped Monster Lab. Deadly Creatures, it may have helped.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Man I love these threads.

 

[Zachack]

...and how many of those games got the marketing that SO4 got?

HOTD? Anecdotally, I didn't see a lot of SO4 ads until March, but I don't watch much TV. Further, I was under the impression that the general agreement is that SO4 did poorly, so I'm not sure how this helps your argument.

Rather than blame Wii owners for not buying these well-received but not blockbuster AAA games, blame them when AAA blockbuster games on Wii fail (currently there have been none that have bombed - just look at RE4 which sold 1.4 million copies).

So now RE4Wii is a AAA blockbuster? At this point I think just about every adjective, pro or con, has been attached to that game. Stop using it as proof of anything.

If there was no "core" audience on Wii to serve, then COD3 wouldn't have sold more on Wii than on PS3 and World at War wouldn't have been one of the top-selling 3rd party titles on Wii this past holiday.

There's that "better than PS3" argument again, which hilariously also ignores that Resistance came out two days prior. I suppose you could compare it to Red Steel in terms of competition... but I wouldn't.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Is that really what you think I said? Really? I know being a fanboy means that you like to pick and choose what you read, but maybe you should get your shallow breathing under control, eat a cookie, and try again.

What you said, verbatim:

Looking at Nintendo's output I'd say it takes their very best team (with likely a near-infinite budget) to make something on the level of SMG, and going by what keeps selling month after month it was obviously a waste of money that Business-Savvy Nintendo probably won't make again. Why stretch the duct tape when you can get 3x the sales with end-of-gen GC visuals?

Go ahead and get cute with me all you want, but you were clearly insinuating here that Nintendo will have no ambition to create more high budget Mario Platformers anymore, based on what I don't know.

Why the hell would Nintendo cheap out on the visuals of its marquee franchise? (Not even keeping in mind that you haven't given any basis for reference as to what cheaply developed Nintendo games sell well enough to replace their bread and butter.) You're a loon.

 

[Jocchan]

I don't think advertising would have helped Monster Lab. Deadly Creatures, it may have helped.

To be honest, I think the right advertising would have helped Monster Lab much more than Deadly Creatures.
Also, lulz @ Dead Rising. Capcom didn't pass the test this time.