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OMGHI2U K.Lee Gamefan is bakk fewlz

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
*boston accent* Oh mah GAAAAD/*boston accent*


....did I have a HELL of a time getting back on this forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have been trying and Trying and TRYING to post @ GAF and LET ME TELL YOU I was having some *MAJOR* withdrawals just lurking here, not being able to post...

It seems that my hotmail account was banned or blocked or cornholed somehow, but its good to be back :)

Thanx to marcollony (SP) and Bishoptl for getting me back...you are the best!!!!

Just to prove that I am the real K. Lee Gamefan I have an update on Carbon Nanotube TV stuffs that I have wanted to post since mid june....

just give me a sec...
 

SyNapSe

Member
Thank god. I need my dreams of having a 65" LCD/Plasma type HD/Widescreen TV revived! Bring forth the good news, or the sacrificial lambs.
 

IJoel

Member
IBTTBMDHUFASTB2100





















IBTTBMDHUFASTB2100 = In Before Thread To Bring My Damn Hopes Up For A Super TV Before 2100

:p
 
Just to prove that I am the real K. Lee Gamefan I have an update on Carbon Nanotube TV stuffs that I have wanted to post since mid june....

just give me a sec...
No, no. Writing this entertaining could only come from Gamefan. Welcome back.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Hi Klee :).

Finally the best hi-tech A/V guy is back :D.

How are family, work and school ( still taking classes ? ) ?
 

DaCocoBrova

Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
Oh, and I've been away myself. What are you into now? Did you ever do the Linux thing?
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
....but before I do that, let me talk about something more game related that I wanted to discuss...

XENON

I am trying to figure out what Microsoft's strategy is here....

I think its a big mistake to bring out XENON Xmas 2005.......while Japanese developer support isn't quite as important as it once was, you *NEED* good japanese support, especially if you expect to compete well against something like PS3, which I believe will get the most developer support (US, Europe and Japanese) of the 3 upcoming consoles...

Right now, big support for MS's console in Japan is not happening, so how is this going to change by the time PS3 arrives in 2006???

No BW compatiblity is also a mistake, because I believe that unlike Nintendo, which can really rely on 1st party support, MS needs to have BW compatibility.....

Part of the reason I say this is because MS itself admits Sony as the primary competition, not Nintendo and indeed, conceptually, the XBOX is closer to a PlayStation 2 than a GCN....

Even when XENON or even PS3 comes out, I beileve the big 3rd party developers will continue to support the XBOX/PS2 generation in a big way (EA as said as much) and MS needs to give them as much insentive to support XENON rather than just continued bigger support of the PS2 and then just wait for PS3.....I am sure the lack of BW compatibility on the GCN didn't help its case with developers....

I mean, if you are Ubisoft, for example, and you plan on releasing Prince of Persia 4 on all consoles, you could be faced with having to create a specialized engine just for the XENON version of POP4 along with the the other engine (say, Renderware 3.0) which can be used for the XBOX, PS2, GCN and maybe even the PSP as well....If *I* were Ubisoft, I might consider waiting until 2006-7 when both Revolution and PS3 are out before releasing my big-cross console games on XENON......

It also looks like since XENON is being released in the 2005 timeframe, MS will not be able to use a HD-DVD ROM drive with WM9 playback.....this, IMO, is a big, big missed opportunity.....I mean unless you plan on mainly targeting Nintendo's Revolution, where having non-gaming features is not so much of a big deal, you are just asking for trouble...

PS3 will have Blu-ray....Sony is not dumb enough to miss this opportunity......Microsoft, is seems, is...

I am not trying to bash MS, its just that some of their decisions with XENON seem really, really risky....a console that probably won't have either the 1st party muscle of Nintendo, or the wide spread appeal of the PS3

All this, of course, is IMO...
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
It seems that Taiwan, home of slave labor, cheap goods and a thriving economy, is looking to compete against Motorola and the Korean/Japanese in the development of Carbon Nanotube TVs...

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2004/06/18/2003175563

Scientists explore producing carbon nanotubes locally

BY Chiu Yu-Tzu
STAFF REPORTER
Friday, Jun 18, 2004,Page 10
Efforts to combine nanotechnology with plasma technology have significantly improved due to new equipment which can produce high-performance carbon nanotubes, the National Science Council said yesterday.

Carbon nanotubes are of intense scientific interest around the world due to their outstanding electrical properties.

These properties make them particularly suitable for building a new generation of flat-screen displays known as field emission displays (FED), council officials said at a press conference.

Council Vice Chairman Chi Gou-chung (紀國鐘) said Taiwan might be able to compete with Japan, South Korea and other countries to try to dominate the future FED market with innovative technologies.

Scientists developing the country's first Inductively-Coupled Plasma Chemical Vapor Deposition (ICP-CVD) demonstrated the carbon nanotubes produced in the lab at the press conference.

According to Tsai Chuen-horng (蔡春鴻), a professor of engineering and system science at National Tsing Hua University, the device can produce the kind of high-performance carbon nanotubes needed for the displays.

The technology used in the device has already received two patents from the government and two more from the US.

"With the equipment, we can grow carbon nanotubes homogeneously on a substrate whose diameter is six inches [15.24cm]," Tsai said.

Tsai said this means Taiwanese scientists will be able to develop core technologies for mass production of FED, which could one day replace liquid-crystal displays (LCD).

According to the Industrial Technology Research Institute, this country will become the largest manufacturer of thin-film transistor liquid-crystal displays in the third quarter of this year, taking about 38 percent of the global market.

Over the past four years, Tsai worked with his colleagues and counterparts from National Tai-wan Normal University, Chung Yuan Christian University, the ITRI and Nano Architect Research Corp (晶研科技), studying the growth mechanism of carbon nanotubes, characteristics of field emission and ICP-CVD.

Tsai said the newly-developed equipment might facilitate the production of state-of-the-art, large-scale video display systems.

National Science Council officials told reporters that the NT$38 million research project has resulted in 112 articles for academic journals and conferences.

They said it might possibly produce as many as 12 patents in Taiwan and the US.
This story has been viewed 972 times.


This is a serious threat to the US and other Asian developers of CNT TVs because they cannot match the labor rates of Taiwan, the kings of cheap goods...

It also seems that they are using a similar method of developing nanotubes that Motorola (who also use chemical vapor deposition) is using.....

Should be intresting....
 
About your Xenon post:

I believe MS's Xenon will get pushed passed 2005 regardless if MS likes it or not. I think that the industry will play a key role in this move more so than the market. The targeted timeframe for it's release is just over a year with majority of the industry still focused on this generation of hardware still. Also there is a definite conflict when a U.S. hardware company is competing with rival Japanese companies because both give preferrential treatment to their home territories. E3 2005 will be the deciding factor of whether or not MS is ready to launch their Xenon platform but I have a feeling it won't be ready for primetime.

Kleegamefan said:
This is a serious threat to the US and other Asian developers of CNT TVs because they cannot match the labor rates of Taiwan, the kings of cheap goods...
Great! Whatever it takes to get these new CNT sets cheaper (whenever the bastards do decide to hit the market). We all know that the major companies will still milk as much profits as possible and won't want to carry on it's savings to the consumer at first.
 

jedimike

Member
About Xenon...

Everything you mentioned is just industry speculation... wait for MS to announce something before passing it off as fact.

About TV...

I'm very anxious to get a hold of these future products, but my budget has limits. Give me the best bang for my buck and then let the technology curve flatten out a bit so we all have time to enjoy what we have before getting slammed with the "next best thing".
 
jedimike said:
About Xenon...

Everything you mentioned is just industry speculation... wait for MS to announce something before passing it off as fact.

About TV...

I'm very anxious to get a hold of these future products, but my budget has limits. Give me the best bang for my buck and then let the technology curve flatten out a bit so we all have time to enjoy what we have before getting slammed with the "next best thing".

The "next best thing" is huge HDTV at super cheap prices. But the old articles KLee used to post used to mention late 2004 and at this point I'd be juiced if they could hit in mass quantity by 2005. As for MS, he said his opinion on the speculation... which is what forums are for. Chill out.

KLee: Welcome back. How long before we see your next "I'm buying a computer thread?":)
 
So Klee, now that you're back, I need TV advice =)

I'm looking to get something in the 50" range, for use with progressive scan DVDs and video games. HDTV is something I'm holding off on right now because of the cost of equipment. I'll likely be using SD DirecTv with Tivo for my television viewing. What do you recommend at this point in time?
 

Ranger X

Member
Hi Klee!
I see that my opinions are still close to yours just as when i was reading you on Gamefan back then!
Microsoft seems to make a move a leader of an industry/market would do. They forgot they aren't leading here...
 
BeOnEdge said:
you're looking for a 50" non HD? eh? HD RPTVs are like 12-1700$ toshiba baby!

No I'm looking for an HDTV; I'm just saying I'm not going to be watching HDTV signals at this point in time. I'm looking for something better than a CRT RPTV. Most likely LCD or DLP RPTV.
 
I thought about a projector but I don't think that's right for me at this point in time. I don't think I could convince my g/f to darken the room everytime she wants to watch TV. We're in an apartment right now for probably the next year or so, so I don't think a projector is right for us now. We want to end up with one for the dedicated home theater room in the future, but not now.
 

BeOnEdge

Banned
Marty Chinn said:
No I'm looking for an HDTV; I'm just saying I'm not going to be watching HDTV signals at this point in time. I'm looking for something better than a CRT RPTV. Most likely LCD or DLP RPTV.

i just had my RPTV serviced and i swear the picture is better than it was when i first bought it nearly 4 years ago. i had NO IDEA the reflective mirror inside can get fogged up with film. the guy simply opened my tv and cleaned the mirror with windex and the picture is insane now. crt RPTVs are a nice cheap alternative and last long.
 
The problem with CRT RPTVs though is the limited viewing angle and the lack of brightness compared to an LCD or DLP RPTV. Also the lack of true 720p display is disappointing as well. CRT RPTVs are attractive for the price, but that's about it IMHO.
 

Mike

Member
Okay, I'll bite. I'm looking to buy a TV under 2000 dollars with a great picture. I get a discount on all Sony products, so I want to buy from them. Here's what I'm looking at right now:

PC.SON.KV36HS510.LT.MX2.JPG


http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?c=1&b=g&u=c&catoid=-8043&qp=0&oid=75499&m=0

What do you think?
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
Thanks guys/gals for all the kind words:)

Marty.....if you are looking for a good 50" 720p RPTV that is great for gaming and DVD (and are not too shabby for HDTV) I would go for either a non-XBR Sony GrandWega LCD like the KF-50WE610 or, better yet, the new Sammy HLP5063W 50-inch HD3 DLP set...both have MSRPs in the 3200-3400 range and you should be able to price match both of them against lowball internet street prices (around 2700) if you call J&R directly, who are official Sony and Samsung retailers and very reputable...

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3729678


http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3980547


If it were me, I would go with the HD3 Sammy, of course ;)
 
D

Deleted member 284

Unconfirmed Member
Kleegamefan said:
Thanks guys/gals for all the kind words:)

Marty.....if you are looking for a good 50" 720p RPTV that is great for gaming and DVD (and are not too shabby for HDTV) I would go for either a non-XBR Sony GrandWega LCD like the KF-50WE610 or, better yet, the new Sammy HLP5063W 50-inch HD3 DLP set...both have MSRPs in the 3200-3400 range and you should be able to price match both of them against lowball internet street prices (around 2700) if you call J&R directly, who are official Sony and Samsung retailers and very reputable...

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3729678


http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3980547


If it were me, I would go with the HD3 Sammy, of course ;)

BTW...if you purchase this big ticket item from J and R, you can absolutly haggle on the price.
 

golem

Member
almost got a 51s500 for my room last weekend.. but decided it would probably be overkill... plasma prices need to drop
 

isamu

OMFG HOLY MOTHER OF MARY IN HEAVEN I CANT BELIEVE IT WTF WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES AAAAHHH
yeah plasma prices are insane
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
MoxManiac.....LCOS is the real deal.....

It is called several different names by different Manufactures:

JVC=D'ILA

Sony=SXRD

Everybody else=LCOS

LCOS stands for Liquid Crystal on Silicon....current versions of LCOS are better in most ways than DLP (except for contrast ratio and even here the gap is closing quickly)....

In fact, the best digital projector in the world, Sonys $30,000 Qualia 004 SXRD front projector, is a 3-chip 1080p LCOS product an even then, it is not a pure digitally-controlled LCOS like the eLCOS chipset or Intel's Cayley LCOS....

Here is a decent overview on LCOS technology...keep in mind, though, its a couple of years old and alot of the earlier problems with LCOS have been solved...

http://www.projectorcentral.com/lcos.htm

Here is an fantastic thread that shows the diffrences between traditional analog LCOS and digital LCOS implimented by eLCOS and Intel......

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=351020

I have a DLP front projector myself and while it DLP technology *CAN* have (slightly) better black, contrast ratios and is brighter, it is has proven tough for Texas Instruments to produce a DLP chip with enough mirrors to produce >720p res and 3-chip DLPs are horribly expensive (20 grand and up) and they are still only 720p....

LCOS, on the other hand have several advantages over DLP...with no moving parts, LCOS are easier to manufacturer (DLP has millions of tiny moving mirrors) hence cheaper.... 1080p is easier to do with LCOS and even 2K x 4K resolutions are in the planning stages.....unlike DLP, which use groups of mirrors to represent reflected images, light is first passed through a (twisted)solid silicon layer in LCOS technology....electric pulses are applied to the silicon crystals which untwist to create discrete patterns and, ultimately, images on screen....the light then does a second pass back through the untwisted crystals and on to the screen....there are 3 of these light paths (red, green and blue) and together then can create an HDTV image:)

Since there is a single solid layer of silicon, LCOS products have the highest pixel fill rates of any reflective/refractive/transmissive display technology...92% (vs 85% for DLP and around 60% for LCD) so it gives off a silky smooth, almost analog-like image....

At the same time, the 1080p LCOS have tons of detail....modern LCOS products(such as the Sony SXRD, for example) have 2000:1 contrast ratios and have 1000-ish ANSI Lumen ratings, so they are plenty bright...again, the best consumer projector in the world currently is the Sony Qualia 004, a LCOS product.....

There is no burn in with LCOS, BTW :)

P.S. Texas Instruments is trying to solve the resolution problem with their xHD3 chip (due first in the $6000, 61-inch Sammy RPTV arriving in October) but its not *actually* a 1920 x 1080 chip...they are using 960 vertical pixels(in a diamond configuration) and sampling them at 120Hz, double the 60Hz frame rate....according to Texas Instruments, this give the same detail as a native 1080p chip @ 60fps......we will see about that one...
 
Kleegamefan said:
Thanks guys/gals for all the kind words:)

Marty.....if you are looking for a good 50" 720p RPTV that is great for gaming and DVD (and are not too shabby for HDTV) I would go for either a non-XBR Sony GrandWega LCD like the KF-50WE610 or, better yet, the new Sammy HLP5063W 50-inch HD3 DLP set...both have MSRPs in the 3200-3400 range and you should be able to price match both of them against lowball internet street prices (around 2700) if you call J&R directly, who are official Sony and Samsung retailers and very reputable...

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3729678


http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3980547


If it were me, I would go with the HD3 Sammy, of course ;)

I had been looking at the Sony GrandWega LCD and the Sammy, but had ruled the Sammy out because of the potential rainbow effect and motion sickness. I just didn't think it was worth it to drop that much money on a TV to find out afterward that my g/f gets motion sickness from it. And before anyone suggests have her watch it in a store, you tell me what girl you can get to sit in front of a TV for more than 30 min in a store watching whatever demo they're showing on the TV. So just checking to see if there was somethign else I should be looking at. Now to see what kind of price I can get.
 
Kleegamefan,

Has there been any indication on how much one of these new LCOS sets will cost and a more accurate timeframe on when we should see these things hit the market? I've been itching for a new TV and have been trying to wait patiently for the CNT sets but my patience is starting to run out. If LCOS is what it's cracked up to be then it could be a real nice alternative (assuming it's affordable).
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
Here is what I know:

Company Technology Resolution Type Due Price

Texas Instruments DLP xHD3 1080p(ish) single chip Q3 2004 $6000 MSRP


Motorola NED 1080p Nanotube late 2005 <$2500


Toshiba SED 1080p FED mid 2005 <$3000


INTEL Cayley 720p 1chip LCOS Q1 2005 <$2000


INTEL Cayley 1080p 3chip LCOS Q1 2005 <$4000


eLCOS eLCOS 720p 3chip LCOS Q1 2005 <$2500


eLCOS eLCOS 1080p 3chip LCOS Q1 2005 <$3500
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
I would like to point out that all of those prices are just starting points......2nd and 3rd generation versions of each technologies will naturally be cheaper and probably be better, too...

For instance, with the 61 inch xHD3 Sammy, we know that it will have a $6000 retail, and will probably have a street price 1/3 off that.....more xHD3 products will follow, and they will be alot less than 6 grand, with all this compeitition...

Also, I am only listing the big players....there are alot more than that....

LCOS:

Brillian Gen2 720p and 1080p 3 chippers

Philips DD1080 single chipper

Sony SXRD 3 chip 1080p

JVC D-ILA 1080p 3 chipper



All the above are also due to ship 1st or 2nd gen products within the next 12 months......Motorola is not the only group working on Carbon Nanotub flat screens...Sony, NEC, Samsung and the Tiwanese are also working on products....they will start arriving in late 2005/early 2006-ish....

Keep in mind, when Motorola first announced NEDs July 2003, they said it would be about 2 years away...that puts us at the mid to late 2005 timeframe, just in time for XENON ;)
 
Marty Chinn said:
I had been looking at the Sony GrandWega LCD and the Sammy, but had ruled the Sammy out because of the potential rainbow effect and motion sickness. I just didn't think it was worth it to drop that much money on a TV to find out afterward that my g/f gets motion sickness from it. And before anyone suggests have her watch it in a store, you tell me what girl you can get to sit in front of a TV for more than 30 min in a store watching whatever demo they're showing on the TV. So just checking to see if there was somethign else I should be looking at. Now to see what kind of price I can get.

Are you fucking serious? All you do is play games yet you ruled out the DLP over the LCD because of the rainbow effect and "motion sickness"?!? If you did that after doing a side by side of the two sets, then you need a set of new glasses, or just get a 27" bowed out old RCA with coax input and call it a day.

Rainbow effect.... seriously, what a mountain out of mole hill issue against DLP. It's pretty much only legitimate purpose IMO, is to be used by the LCD projection whores in the Hi-Def forums to flame against the DLP. The only time I notice the rainbow effect is when you look for it on purpose (you have to bob your head around like an idiot), or you play DDR on a DLP set.

And motion sickness? MOTION SICKNESS? What's that got to do with DLP v LCD projection?!? Oh wait, I get it..... Because Grand Wega is so blurry compared to the DLP that it masks any chance of motion sickness from someone who's susceptible. LOL
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
The rainbow effect in single chip DLPs are very much real, although how bad it looks varys from person to person and even from DLP chip to chip(there are several different DLP chips and light engines)....some have 4X, 5X, 6X, 7X colorwheels and some have anywhere from a 3 segment to a 5 or 6 segment colorwheel...

I see in in my Marantz (HD1 DLP) but my wife doesnt....

It goes without saying, do not make a purchase before viewing the product...

Rainbow effect.... seriously, what a mountain out of mole hill issue against DLP. It's pretty much only legitimate purpose IMO, is to be used by the LCD projection whores in the Hi-Def forums to flame against the DLP. The only time I notice the rainbow effect is when you look for it on purpose (you have to bob your head around like an idiot), or you play DDR on a DLP set.

^^^I disagree with this^^^
 
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