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PC Builders - Consider Investing in Dedicated Sound

AGRacing

AGRacing

Member
I never believed that a dedicated sound card would or could make a significant difference in 2023... but I was wrong.

My motherboard is an X570 Aorus Pro Wifi. It touts a great implementation of the common Realtek ALC1220. It works fine of course - but I always had the suspicion it should be better. I felt like sounds blended together in a way - no individual sound was distinct enough. Not 'punchy' enough. It's terrible to have to use subjective terms but you probably get my meaning.

Also in the early 2000's I had an Audigy 2 ZS and I always remember music specifically being excellent with that thing - and EAX being a game changer in that era for game audio.

So I did a little review surfing and sale hunting and picked up a Sound Blaster AE-5 Plus .

It is definitely making a difference with speakers in clarity - but with headphones? BONKERS difference. There is a discreet amp for each channel. I am not a total audiophile but I can just describe it as MUCH richer and clearer. Every individual sound in every range is audible. It's pretty ridiculous.
I tried this with multiple pairs of headphones as well... and my big takeaway was ABSOLUTELY consider a dedicated sound card BEFORE potentially wasting 300 dollars on headphones. The big surprise of my headphone testing was trying my son's Turtle Beach Recon 200's. The card totally transformed those things. They are punching WAY above their weight plugged into this PC.

And all of that was just in the 'direct' source audio mode ... but there are also customizable "SBX" sound profiles for individual games and scenarios and seem to aid you in amplifying things like nearby footsteps, etc if needed or wanted.

But the direct mode is so good I believe I'll just stick with that. I have not heard audio like this through headphones ever.

Here's a pic. Anyway - something to consider for the PC enthusiasts that I know are here.
YxbzLCs.jpg
 
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lukilladog

lukilladog

Member
I could say the same after I ditched this year my Xonar DG in favor of the onboard on my gigabyte h610m and asus b660m motherboards... I think it's just a matter of how audio is sweetened from factory now, and if you like audio to sound in a certain way, the APO equalizer with the Peace plugin should do the job. Placebo is a real problem on these matters.
 
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Fredrik

Fredrik

Member
I hijacked the music computer for gaming and use an external Steinberg UR22, and studio monitors or headphones. I’m mostly satisfied but it don’t come close to the living room home theater setup used for the consoles.
 
rofif

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Most hated post of this topic incoming !!!
pc builders - don't do that. It's a waste of money. There is absolutely 0 difference nowadays. I compared before I removed all that shit.
I've used onboard, used fiio e10k usb dac and you know what? Now I don't use anything. Besides - on-board cards don't suck for 15 years already.
Digital audio through hdmi goes directly from gpu to my lg c1 tv and it's speakers are pretty good for a tv in right mode. No setup, nothing needed.
Headphones? Never again audiophille bs, usb dac issues, crackling or cables. Sony pulse 3d usb wireless dongle is the sound card. Sounds fantastic, no hiss whatsoever, no delay, no cables. Turn on and go.

Ignorance is bliss. And I am happy that I've managed to escape pc audio hole. On-board disables in uefi, no usb crap dacs. Nothing. no problems.
Sound cards are something I absolutely do not miss from the 90s
 
Tarin02543

Tarin02543

Member
I absolutely agree. Personally I use a Asus Xonar Essence 2.0 and couldn't live without it.

P_setting_xxx_0_90_end_692.png


When I game on my tv I use RCA cables connected, thanks to the separate inputs (hdmi video + analog audio) it makes a huge difference.
 
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LiquidMetal14

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Can't knock the reasoning. I used to buy sound cards 20 years ago. It's more of a space or pcie lane restriction that prevents me from adding one.
 
Guwop

Guwop

Neo Member
I have always used a dedicated sound card. People say on board sound these days is good enough to not use a dedicated sound card, but I never experienced that. On board sound just flat out sucks compared to a dedicated sound card.
 
AGRacing

AGRacing

Member
A few have claimed placebo already.. and I get it .. but that is absolutely NOT the case with the headphones as I said.

I realize I can't put the difference into a chart in the way you can between 2 graphics cards... But I assure you it is there and it's not a small difference either.
 
nightmare-slain

nightmare-slain

Member
Maybe it depends on what Motherboard and speakers you get.

I had a cheap ass board and got a sound card and thought there was a noticeable improvement. Upgraded my motherboard and left the card out and thought it sounded better without it.

Maybe if you're an audiophile then it makes sense to get a soundcard but you'll also need good speakers to pair with it. Motherboards have good enough sound quality for most people unless you buy a cheap crappy board. If you're an audiophile you'll buy any kind of stupid shit and think you're getting better audio.
 
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Mr Moose

Mr Moose

Member
I use a USB audio interface (UMC202HD) and Peace app for headphones/mic and TV audio when I am watching movies and shit.
 
Tomeru

Tomeru

Member
I just switch to a sff build with msi z790 edge wifi(thank gawd), so I'm unable to use a didicated sound card any more. I also can't use spatial sound in win11 for some reason (even what I could use dts x in my previous pc). So while I'm looking for other options, and so far I can't get it to work no matter what, I plugged my headphone to my monitor to get spatial audio from my 6900xt. A shame really...
 
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Pagusas

Pagusas

Elden Member
I mean if you are impressed with that, then you should try investing in a full Atmos 11.4 system. You do not need a sound card for that, just the strait Atmos output from any modern GPU.
 
rofif

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Gaiff said:
And this validates OP's claims.

People need to do the exact opposite of whatever this dude says. He's full of shit.

I'll get a sound card. Thanks, OP.
Click to expand...
dude what is your problem with me?
I have fiio e10k right here in the drawer. You want this shit, get it. It's still better than having to deal with any sound card drivers.
There is no sound difference. Not only sound chips have the same audio quality as any sound card or dac.... but more importantly, there is no use for sound care, be in on-board or usb in many cases. Surely in my case.
 
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vaibhavpisal

vaibhavpisal

Member
Tomeru said:
I just switch to a sff build with msi z790 edge wifi(thank gawd), so I'm unable to use a didicated sound card any more. I also can't use spatial sound in win11 for some reason (even what I could use dts x in my previous pc). So while I'm looking for other options, and so far I can't get it to work no matter what, I plugged my headphone to my monitor to get spatial audio from my 6900xt. A shame really...
Click to expand...

Get a usb dac and a good headphones with proper soundstage.

Just feed it stereo. No need for spatial sound etc or any additional processing.
 
vaibhavpisal

vaibhavpisal

Member
rofif said:
dude what is your problem with me?
I have fiio e10k right here in the drawer. You want this shit, get it. It's still better than having to deal with any sound card drivers.
There is no sound difference. Not only sound chips have the same audio quality as any sound card or dac.... but more importantly, there is no use for sound care, be in on-board or usb in many cases. Surely in my case.
Click to expand...

Which hps did you tried with fiio?

They need to be good enough to notice a difference.

At least Sennheiser HD 650 class.
 
rofif

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
vaibhavpisal said:
Which hps did you tried with fiio?

They need to be good enough to notice a difference.

At least Sennheiser HD 650 class.
Click to expand...
Yeah I never had this class of headphones to test. I was never this passionate about headphones

brainwavz hm5
takstar pro82
cal!
sony xm3
koss porta pro
Maybe some else, I don't remember. It was few years ago. I think I also had 770 pro32 ohm here for a second too.

The best one was koss porta pro with bass boost disabled on fiio and it's my fav headphone ever. Fantastic comfort and open but warm sound. I love that thing.
Honestly, Sony Pulse 3d sounds nearly identical to me and I am just using this on pc. Fiio is packed, sound card on-board is disabled. I like the simplicity.
I know people shrug when I mention Pulse3d but it's really nice sounding. Weirdly enough, it doesn't sound like a closed headset at all
 
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Chiggs

Chiggs

Member
I have the AE-9, with the external headphone amp, and I completely agree with the OP. Night and day difference.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
Honestly it's not something I'd waste pcie lanes on and that's coming from someone who does care about audio and has a full atmos setup. Onboard along with Hdmi audio have been viable solutions for years.

Reizo Ryuu said:
Oh man, thank god for you, thank you so much for comparing, the rest of us can rest easy now knowing that rofif was on the case!
Click to expand...

He's contributed a hell of a lot more to this thread than you have. Take the personal vendetta crap to PM.
 
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Fredrik

Fredrik

Member
rofif said:
dude what is your problem with me?
I have fiio e10k right here in the drawer. You want this shit, get it. It's still better than having to deal with any sound card drivers.
There is no sound difference. Not only sound chips have the same audio quality as any sound card or dac.... but more importantly, there is no use for sound care, be in on-board or usb in many cases. Surely in my case.
Click to expand...
I don’t agree on your conclusion but I have to ask, what do you actually do when you ”deal with any sound card drivers”?
I try to remember if I’ve manually updated any audio related driver since the 90s when I used to have an Ensoniq Soundscape Elite card (which was great). There is usually a program to install, takes maybe 1 minute, and after that I don’t do anything and it just works.
 
Hohenheim

Hohenheim

Member
I have a external sound card (Motu) for the speakers, and Steelseries Nova Pro DAC for headphones.

Haven't even activated the internal soundcard.
 
64bitmodels

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
is onboard audio that good to the point i can skip out on a DAC entirely? my current mobo's audio is decent (cheap Asus B450m-a ii from 2020), but i know there's better out there. I'd completely upgrade my motherboard and change my components for better audio, I want the soundstage flac goodness!!!
 
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HeisenbergFX4

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
64bitmodels said:
is onboard audio that good to the point i can skip out on a DAC entirely? my current mobo's audio is decent (cheap Asus B450 from 2020), but i know there's better out there. I'd completely upgrade my motherboard and change my components for better audio, I want the soundstage flac goodness!!!
Click to expand...
Just my 2 cents the onboard sound is good enough unless people just want to spend money for the best of the best.

You want good soundstage invest in high end open back headphones
 
R

Reizo Ryuu

Gold Member
GHG said:
He's contributed a hell of a lot more to this thread than you have
Click to expand...
Oh he definitely has, how else would we know that there's absolutely 0 difference based on the empirical data of "I compared"(fucking lol), or that you will "have to deal with sound card drivers", whatever that means; amazing contributions as always.
 
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Reactions: GHG
A

ANDS

King of Gaslighting
PC is connected to a giant home theater system, so been living the PC audio cream of a dream for awhile now. I do remember having a decent sound card when I did PC gaming at a "PC setup" and how much better it was than a couple of Insignia speakers.
 
vaibhavpisal

vaibhavpisal

Member
rofif said:
Yeah I never had this class of headphones to test. I was never this passionate about headphones

brainwavz hm5
takstar pro82
cal!
sony xm3
koss porta pro
Maybe some else, I don't remember. It was few years ago. I think I also had 770 pro32 ohm here for a second too.

The best one was koss porta pro with bass boost disabled on fiio and it's my fav headphone ever. Fantastic comfort and open but warm sound. I love that thing.
Honestly, Sony Pulse 3d sounds nearly identical to me and I am just using this on pc. Fiio is packed, sound card on-board is disabled. I like the simplicity.
I know people shrug when I mention Pulse3d but it's really nice sounding. Weirdly enough, it doesn't sound like a closed headset at all
Click to expand...

Pulse 3d is already more expensive than these cans you tried. It should sound at least equally good.

Porta pro is a solid headphone. It won't sound any different from smartphone or pc or dac.

Once you get into reference class cans (imo atleast HD 650 class), you start to get complete soundscape. Like a whole layer of ambience that really gets you immersed.

Tomeru said:
Recommend a usb dac please! Already using sennheiser game one /588.
Click to expand...

Try some entry level usb dongle dacs like Fiio KA1. Should be $50 or so.
 
64bitmodels

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
HeisenbergFX4 said:
You want good soundstage invest in high end open back headphones
Click to expand...
i get the better soundcards to support the headphones though thats the thing
I'm not trying to become some guy with a tube amp who owns tens of thousands of dollars worth of headphones but i want to have something that's more comfortable than my earbuds and lets me hear 3d soundstage audio both for games and music, as well as FLAC
 
S

SScorpio

Member
The money is better spent on better speakers or headphones.

I have the same motherboard as OP. Most modern motherboards now place the audio portion in its own section and are mindful of power routing to reduce interference. A dedicated soundcard could improve this slightly by moving chips further from the board, but at that point go for digital out and an external amp to improve it even more.

The difference with modern soundcards is how their equalizers are tuned. As soon as anyone has nothing but praise for the Audigy 2 ZS, you should know they are used to a specific equalizer pattern. Creative did a great job with that card, but the audio isn't unadulterated. But even onboard audio chips almost always have settings that will let you tune in whatever you're ears find best.

In the olden days when OPL2/3 was still king. Having a real Yamaha chip that was generating the audio, versus a knockoff with half-assed sound was a huge difference. Then came the days of MIDI which was overly expensive until Win95 brought Roload GM to the masses. A real MIDI synth was almost always better, but the software synth Windows bundled was a huge upgrade for anyone else. Then came the days of CD audio, no we're almost always some pre-recorded digital audio. And any differences break down to the audiophiles arguing their $1,000 gold-plated audio cable makes it "sound more real".

TLDR - iPods, MP3s, and the like, have ruined digital sound, and people continue to champion audio that is the best very to them but actually isn't close to a good pair of studio monitors.
 
lukilladog

lukilladog

Member
Fredrik said:
I don’t agree on your conclusion but I have to ask, what do you actually do when you ”deal with any sound card drivers”?
I try to remember if I’ve manually updated any audio related driver since the 90s when I used to have an Ensoniq Soundscape Elite card (which was great). There is usually a program to install, takes maybe 1 minute, and after that I don’t do anything and it just works.
Click to expand...

I think latency and stutters in games, noise, and glitchy installers were the most common, so you look for fixes (I remember the creative forums being a dumpster fire). I had to sell my soundblaster to a guy that only listened to music (because of some stutters -which a sound card with a Cmedia chip fixed), there even were programs to test if you were affected. Cards with cmedia chips were good for me, until I got the xonar, I don't remember why but I ended up using the unofficial Uni Xonar drivers.
 
saintjules

saintjules

Member
Fredrik said:
I hijacked the music computer for gaming and use an external Steinberg UR22, and studio monitors or headphones. I’m mostly satisfied but it don’t come close to the living room home theater setup used for the consoles.
Click to expand...

Hi fellow music producer. What genre you producing?

BTW, I recommend the Apollo Twin!
 
lukilladog

lukilladog

Member
SScorpio said:
The money is better spent on better speakers or headphones.

I have the same motherboard as OP. Most modern motherboards now place the audio portion in its own section and are mindful of power routing to reduce interference. A dedicated soundcard could improve this slightly by moving chips further from the board, but at that point go for digital out and an external amp to improve it even more.

The difference with modern soundcards is how their equalizers are tuned. As soon as anyone has nothing but praise for the Audigy 2 ZS, you should know they are used to a specific equalizer pattern. Creative did a great job with that card, but the audio isn't unadulterated. But even onboard audio chips almost always have settings that will let you tune in whatever you're ears find best.

In the olden days when OPL2/3 was still king. Having a real Yamaha chip that was generating the audio, versus a knockoff with half-assed sound was a huge difference. Then came the days of MIDI which was overly expensive until Win95 brought Roload GM to the masses. A real MIDI synth was almost always better, but the software synth Windows bundled was a huge upgrade for anyone else. Then came the days of CD audio, no we're almost always some pre-recorded digital audio. And any differences break down to the audiophiles arguing their $1,000 gold-plated audio cable makes it "sound more real".

TLDR - iPods, MP3s, and the like, have ruined digital sound, and people continue to champion audio that is the best very to them but actually isn't close to a good pair of studio monitors.
Click to expand...

I agree, when I went from Xonar to onboard b660m (own pcb on the motherboard as you say), detail mas much clearer and it was because of the nasty hard coded equalizations on the Xonar, it's much better to have a flat pattern from today's onboard and use the APO/Peace equalizer and decide by yourself. Now I can play on my Senn HD headphones without being overly annoyed and tired in shooter and racing games. I tried to find the smallest reason to go and buy a sound card after hours of testing with the HD's and Yamaha shelf monitors, but I could't.
 
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twilo99

twilo99

Member
Mr Moose said:
I use a USB audio interface (UMC202HD) and Peace app for headphones/mic and TV audio when I am watching movies and shit.
Click to expand...

Looks solid for the price.

Do you mean this app ?

sourceforge.net

Peace Equalizer, interface Equalizer APO

Download Peace Equalizer, interface Equalizer APO for free. System-wide PC Audio Equalizer and Effects app for Windows 7 to 11. Peace equalizer is a Windows PC interface for Equalizer APO http://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo. Besides an system-wide audio equalizer on your Windows PC...
sourceforge.net sourceforge.net
 
dcx4610

dcx4610

Member
Motherboard onboard audio has come a long way but if out of stubborness and nostalgia, every build I get dedicated audio. Sound is important to me and I do a lot of listening to music so I feel it's worth the cost.

I think there are a lot of people out there that just don't care too much about audio. As long as there is sound, that's all that matters. If you care about richer sound, more options and listen to music (and not streaming), dedicated audio is a must.
 
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Mr Moose

Mr Moose

Member
twilo99 said:
Looks solid for the price.

Do you mean this app ?

sourceforge.net

Peace Equalizer, interface Equalizer APO

Download Peace Equalizer, interface Equalizer APO for free. System-wide PC Audio Equalizer and Effects app for Windows 7 to 11. Peace equalizer is a Windows PC interface for Equalizer APO http://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo. Besides an system-wide audio equalizer on your Windows PC...
sourceforge.net sourceforge.net
Click to expand...
Yeah that and this thing https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/
 
Buggy Loop

Buggy Loop

Member
Yup, totally different quality than motherboards. Had the basic Schiit stack for so long, but..

Bought a Schiit Jotunheim 2 + Bifrost 2 dac/amp, black finish, to drive my Focal clear headphones. It’s not just for gaming, but listening to music on that setup is sublime

Happy Love It GIF by The Drew Barrymore Show


Also, buy the Dolby Atmos license on MS store. When a game supports it, it’s worth it.
 
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twilo99

twilo99

Member
Yes, I find the dolby atmos algorithm better than the built in windows sonic, its def worth it.

I also tried DTS but didn't care for it either.
 
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