Tripolygon
Banned
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Phil Spencer: 'Xbox Live is not a free speech platform' - Kotaku
- Thread starter CyberPanda
- Start date
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DynamiteCop!
Banned
That applies to games, interactions in games and community features are not rated therefore they need to be moderated.Glad you approve of Sony censorship and moral stance after all... oh wait....
Nice try though.
Vawn
Banned
All I'm hearing is "my video game console allegiance dictates my ethical and political beliefs".
BacklashWave534
Member
Thats the excuse everyone uses to destroy free speech.
Rajack
Member
You use their service, so you agree to their terms and conditions, as well as their code of conduct. The rules they've laid out aren't unreasonable and allow for plenty of wiggle room. Anyone who steps beyond those rules deserves the discipline they receive. When I owned an Xbox One (sold it to survive while I was homeless, long story) I had no complaints about the rules and certainly had no problem acting within their bounds.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
You have free speech on privately owned platforms and services, but there are also consequences for that speech which exist outside of the law.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Oh yeah, no totally credible that their attitude towards games is going to be the anti SJW nemesis people dream
....
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I don't really think it's that outrageous that they want to police people being shitty. Obviously, I'd hope they draw the line somewhere reasonable. Either way, it has nothing to do with free speech; that's limited to government curtailing your rights, not a private party like MS.
Joshmyersbv
Member
I know I'm not a big fan of people restricting the right of free speech but not everybody likes being called a faggot bitch in Call of Duty by some 12 year old with the Sasuke Uchiha sharingan emblem. It's bad enough the kid can't get the pattern of the eye right. I mean what a little bitch.
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Chairman Tickles
Banned
It's called a profanity filter. Welcome to the mid - 00's I guess.
Anyone that sounds like a 12 year old should be automatically banned from the service. This includes grown men and women with squeaky child voices. Take that shit elsewhere.
Anyone that sounds like a 12 year old should be automatically banned from the service. This includes grown men and women with squeaky child voices. Take that shit elsewhere.
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Bolivar687
Banned
I appreciate his honesty.
grfunkulus
Banned
And rose tinted glasses are too. I was of the appropriate age with other teenage male friends to have an amazing amount of fun with halo 2.
But you're revising history here. There was a ton of griefing, and a lot of abusive behavior. The banhammer functionality was also in full effect however. Painting it as a wild west where people just behaved on their own accord, never giving one another more than a good natured ribbing, is incredibly disengenuous.
People regularly took it so far over the line they received temporary or permanent bans. Shit talking and having fun aren't mutually exclusive (in fact, they're often uncoincidentally, the opposite). But please, the garbage and ignorance people spewed at that point in history because a lot of the culture hadn't come far enough was truly abhorrent. 'gamer culture' has come at least a little bit of the way toward maturity. Don't ruin it by invoking SJW as a catch all every time some as well meaning and thoughtful as Phil mentions having *some restrictions for the good of the community at large. Also, you signed up for Xbox live. You read the ToS. If it's gotten old, leave. Or make an argument to change it.
Not just hurr durr, lemme shit on any attempt to protect vulnerable groups as censorship.
Redstarwater
Neophyte
This idiot really thinks SJWs buy Xbox’s doesn’t he?
These people don’t buy or play video games, unless it’s to push their agendas.
Phil is a fraud and has always been a fraud. You just know the board that’s full of real businessmen only chose him because he looks high because that’s how the elites that would be on the board view gaming. High adults and children.
These people don’t buy or play video games, unless it’s to push their agendas.
Phil is a fraud and has always been a fraud. You just know the board that’s full of real businessmen only chose him because he looks high because that’s how the elites that would be on the board view gaming. High adults and children.
grfunkulus
Banned
Plays hundreds of hours of video games, speaks intelligently to the issues, is passionate because of the actual product not just the 'chase' like a Peter Moore. Yeah, they chose him because he looks high
Also, dude looks aged vs 5-7 years ago because he's working his ass off. Way to personally attack him for doing something you've never done: work hard
Redstarwater
Neophyte
HUNDREDS of hours? AND a Battletoads T-shirt on stage? Shit dawg.
edit: i feel like i should edit and point out i was obviously using hyperbole to make a joke about him looking high, thanks for making me explain it.
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XcloudTimdog
Banned
Its more a respect thing. Treat ppl the way you wanna be treated
Redstarwater
Neophyte
Great, I talk mad shit. Don't like it? Don't get sword'ed like a bitch next time.
I feel like when some people watch sports they don't know these players are talking mad shit to each other on the field, the whole game. There is nothing wrong with that either.
grfunkulus
Banned
Your joke is ineffective because it doesnt represent reality, or even closely mirror it. My point is you can obviously do both-- play THOUSANDS of hours of games and kick ass in the boardroom. Well, not you but someone.
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Chairman Tickles
Banned
Redstarwater
Neophyte
Someone like you? Who is also posting on this forum... weirdo
grfunkulus
Banned
You...............................the point
Redstarwater
Neophyte
Yikes.
Alx
Member
It has nothing to do with free speech, but on where you draw the line between what is allowed and what isn't. I don't think people will mind if messages promoting ISIS or child porn were banned. But they could mind if it was forbidden to have a MAGA or Gay Pride avatar. Some stuff is obviously off-limits, and some stuff is obviously allowed, and people start arguing when you're somewhere in the middle.
Chairman Tickles
Banned
Not so obvious, depending on your ideology. I'll present two objectively illogical examples for each 'side'.
GAB (which prides itself on 'fwee peach') banned manga because drawings of childish anime style characters in compromising positions are blasphemy to a typical right-winger.
Similarly typical leftists would find it highly offensive and do tend to ban promotion of anti-vaccination literature on their platforms. Facebook just did.
One could argue neither are actually harmful to any sane individual. Or one could argue lolis are more dangerous than misleading people into not vaccinating their kids, or vice versa.
See it's a rich tapestry of 'somewhere in the middle'. The fact is there is no middle in many ideological clashes.
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Tesseract
Banned
i like to talk shit and get shit talked
Alx
Member
Chairman Tickles
Indeed, there are many cases of debatable topics that could be submitted to censorship. The topics I labeled as obvious are those that find a consensus, like child porn on one side of the spectrum, and pictures of cats on the other.In the end like I said it's not about free speech, but where companies draw the line with all the "middle" cases.
Blizzard in China would be yet another topic, since it's more about submitting to local authorities or not (I doubt a game publisher would have any personal agenda related to HK extradition policies…). Or maybe they're applying a general policy about not using their service as a political platform, since that's not its purpose.
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CyberPanda
Banned
But do you like to get pooped on? That is the most important question.
Tesseract
Banned
no, poopy caca goes in the toilet
Silent Viper
Banned
Sony already very strict plus they already censoring shit in games.
If this makes gaf and era folks upset then they free to go somewhere else where they can talk shit freely.
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
Just like anywhere, you have free speech but not freedom from consequence of poor choice of words and lack of awareness in circumstance.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Sort of... freedom of speech is also measured, politics and public speaking wise, in how protected you are from those consequences... “you are free to speak your mind, if we do not like it we will beat the shit out of you after” tends to stifle free speech
.Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Both companies are announcing the same core values and censoring on Xbox LIVE is not something in and of itself as Spencer stated... it is part of a much wider culture shift and you have seen repeated by 343i’s Bonnie Ross, Satya Nadella (whole HR scandals and the big new policy shift, do people remember that too?), and now Phil Spencer.
Both MS and Sony are endorsing the same core socio-political values. What matters is the climate and the stance of the platform holder: developers, see S-E and their ethics department worried about Tifa L., will censor themselves.
This is what made the whole “Sony leftist liberal SJW progressive crazies” rage coming from Xbox fans sound so odd as both companies were marching in a similar direction and now finally they are both public about it.
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desertdroog
Member
There are no consequences of any value that exist to discourage free speech. The only consequences are illegal retaliatory action by people who infringe on others rights via violence, doxxing and harrassment.Sort of... freedom of speech is also measured, politics and public speaking wise, in how protected you are from those consequences... “you are free to speak your mind, if we do not like it we will beat the shit out of you after” tends to stifle free speech
'Consequences' are a dog whistle veiling illegal behavior because said person was offended.
NOTE: I am a citizen of the United States, obviously my stance is the hard line in the world on this. I make no apologies for it.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
People are subjects not consequences, but wait until someone you hate is in power and/or when some clear cut definitions change to see how that tastes like
.BacklashWave534
Member
They are using a loophole for censorship that will soon be closed. If they want government protection against getting sued for what people say on their platform then they will have to guarantee free speech. There is a bipartisan bill gaining a huge amount of support that will mark the end of this BS once and for all. If you don't like free speech there are plenty of places you will feel right at home...Russia, North Korea, IRAN, etc. Take your pick.
Aurelian
my friends call me "Cunty"
Er, no.
This isn't really different than operating, say, a night club. You're allowed to kick people out of your club if you find their behavior disruptive, even if it's otherwise legal. Free speech rights prevent the government from dictating what you can say on a basic level; they don't give you permission to behave however you want in others' private spaces. And Microsoft, like Facebook, Google and Twitter, has decided it doesn't want hateful assholes causing grief in its private space.
Mista
Banned
Doesn't matter. Our banter is always inside the party so nobody will get banned from that
Unless you're a cunt that goes messaging everyone that defeats you with cussing and other bollocks, I hope you get banned
Try getting better in a game instead of cussing everyone that hands you your ass
Unless you're a cunt that goes messaging everyone that defeats you with cussing and other bollocks, I hope you get banned
Try getting better in a game instead of cussing everyone that hands you your ass
Fuz
Banned
Kids aren't that delicate either.
I game online since 95-97, took my fair share of trash talk and fake "death threats" (lol) and I never cared.
Who fucking cares, they're just words that get thrown around in the heath of the moment. Sure, would be better if people chilled out, but it's not such a big deal.
I'm more afraid of censorship and thought control.
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EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Fair speech is earned, Microsoft doesn't swing the freedom of speech and empowerment, this isn't to take anything away from Microsoft but their maturity isn't that of a PC Steam community or PSN. They make this statement and understand their fanbase, if your ultimate goal is to clean up the trash talk than this is ok.
Phunkydiabetic
Banned
Kids aren't that delicate either.
I game online since 95-97, took my fair share of trash talk and fake "death threats" (lol) and I never cared.
Who fucking cares, they're just words that get thrown around in the heath of the moment. Sure, would be better if people chilled out, but it's not such a big deal.
I'm more afraid of censorship and thought control.
If you think this is about "censorship" and "thought control" then you are really showing your naivety. This has less to do with taking away your precious free speech rights and more to do with Microsoft owning a platform and trying to do it's best to preemptively squash any sort of drama and negativity towards the brand that may arise in the future.
Think about where society is at these days man. Think about how the most innocuous things can be twisted into hate filled witch hunting. Now imagine you are a company that owns a platform where neck bearded gamers are free to spew their neckbeardedness all over. We have all seen time and again that 'gamers' can end up being some of the shittiest hobbyists around and cause a lot of shit for the slightest misgivings. Far better to just nip it in the bud as best as possible before it gets worse.
And who knows, it could end up being a fools errand but if everyone stops to think rationally, to think with logic and not emotions, you can see where Microsoft is coming from. Not everything is a calculated conspiracy to ruin muh freedoms.
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Mista
Banned
To me it isn’t also. I grew up hearing/reading all kinds of shit but didn’t affect me a bit. I mean last month I sent a glitcher a message saying “fuck off you cheating prick” he reported my message and I was banned from joining a party, streaming and even sending a message for 3 weeks.
Kids aren't that delicate either.
I game online since 95-97, took my fair share of trash talk and fake "death threats" (lol) and I never cared.
Who fucking cares, they're just words that get thrown around in the heath of the moment. Sure, would be better if people chilled out, but it's not such a big deal.
I'm more afraid of censorship and thought control.
BacklashWave534
Member
Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, effectively grants platforms a “special immunity from liability” for the content they allow, predicated on the assumption that they are “neutral public forums” rather than publishers exercising subjective preferences. If they are what you say than they should be stripped of this protection. No one wants hateful assholes on their platforms but many of us would prefer to self moderate rather than having big tech telling us what is and is not acceptable. We have seen them abuse their position several times in regards to politics as well as appeasing the outrage mobs any time they are offended. Are you able to tell me with a straight face that you believe that they act in a neutral manner? If not then they should be treated as a publishers and be held accountable for anything posted, discussed etc. on their platform.
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buizel
Banned
Same happened to my girlfriend. We were playing left 4 dead 2 on Xbox online and some asshole kept joining our game and killing us constantly. She messaged him 'cunt', must have been reported cause her Xbox live was banned...it really upset her as we just saved up enough to get her Gold as well so we could play together
):
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I'm not sure why people think this is a new thing. MS has always brought down the hammer on people who are hell bent on being exceptional assholes online.
I forget where the story is told, but for the people who they hire to be mods, their trial by fire was UNO for the xbox 360. For some reason that game was especially nasty when it came to online interactions because it made use of the camera.
After that they were randomly dropped into high trash talk games like COD4 and Gears because they became desensitized due to UNO.
They're just expanding on what they've been doing for a decade now.
I forget where the story is told, but for the people who they hire to be mods, their trial by fire was UNO for the xbox 360. For some reason that game was especially nasty when it came to online interactions because it made use of the camera.
After that they were randomly dropped into high trash talk games like COD4 and Gears because they became desensitized due to UNO.
They're just expanding on what they've been doing for a decade now.
Ravi_elite
Banned
Remember when some video games forced you to be in game-chat in certain game modes (mw2/gow2) which clearly was a brilliant idea and probably expanded those gamers friends lists quicker and also created better team work. Also enemies online were a fun thing to have.
