mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I agree 100%. I knew the moment the video started that this would be an unfair competition.
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I agree 100%. I knew the moment the video started that this would be an unfair competition.
BluRayHiDef
Banned
01. Option 2: There are more reflections on the asphalt and vehicles in Option 2 and they're more detailed/ accurate than those in Option 1.
02. Option 2: I could barely tell, but there are more reflections on the bottles at 6:16 and there are reflections on the rocks thereat that are missing from those in Option 1.
03. Option 2: There are reflections on the cannisters in Option 2, which are missing from those in Option 1.
02. Option 2: I could barely tell, but there are more reflections on the bottles at 6:16 and there are reflections on the rocks thereat that are missing from those in Option 1.
03. Option 2: There are reflections on the cannisters in Option 2, which are missing from those in Option 1.
regawdless
Banned
I had a lot of discussions with Ilien and he is pushing his agenda so hard that it's ridiculous.
Not butthurt, just don't see the fun in an agenda driven AMD warrior thread.
lmfao at the damage control. "Ahhh! These practical examples aren't the examples that show RT in its best light!"
kuncol02
Banned
What? Metro is using raytracing to render indirect lighting, So tell me. WHAT DIFFERENCE YOU WANT IN SCENE WHERE THERE IS BASICALLY NO FUCKING INDIRECT LIGHTING!
regawdless
Banned
I find DLSS quality at 1440p pretty good actually. Sure, there's some noise on certain edges while moving the camera. Other than that, the end result of the game maxed with raytracing with DLSS at 60fps is nothing short of stunning.
Really depends on the DLSS implementation though. It's pretty shitty in WD Legion for example, like really bad.
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Bolivar687
Banned
Interesting that option 1 of the third segment had real time reflections on a puddle but then not later on sheet metal.
I don't know which RT settings are turned on here but I've really seen better global illumination than this for years, including in mods of 13 year old games.
I don't know which RT settings are turned on here but I've really seen better global illumination than this for years, including in mods of 13 year old games.
regawdless
Banned
Third segment is Watch Dogs Legion, only has RT reflections, no global Illumination.
manfestival
Member
The difference was pretty clear to me. I could definitely see the 53 and 61 fpsIf someone does not see the difference, then they are blind, and possibly an idiot.
sobaka770
Banned
Look at shadows on second picture under the motorhome, grass the correct lighting on the wind turbine and plastic table bounce. Look at palm shadows. Yes, some of it is subtle, unless you find a reflection or a shodow or an impressive light bounce. But in motion and throughout the game it's very noticeable just not on the shitty examples in that vid.
Day night difference here
What is being compared is RT on rasterized games. But thank you for your transparent opinion.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
He is looking for confirmation that rt is not worth it. Obviously in given circumstances the difference is negligible, sometimes the desired effect will look just as good in the right angle, or if the space is limited enough, all the pre-baked lighting can be put in high quality textures, the SSR reflections look about as good if nothing gets in their way... Etc.
The benefits of RT come in play when the baked in stuff breaks, whennshader based lighting breaks, etc. But it does cost so much that at the moment even if you have a card that supports RT it may not be worth using the better tech, even with DLSS (it lowers the bar quite a lot)... But this is a temporary situation, as soon as people can get their hands in 3060 type of cards it will be pretty mainstream, at least a lot of people will play with at least one RT features enabled.
waylo
Banned
$500 extra? What? a 3080 is like $50-$100 more than a 6800. And RT isnt the only other thing you get.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
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Ascend
Member
If you have to selectively choose areas for it to stand out, doing so would not be representative of the whole experience, and would only confirm that the overall improvement in the experience definitely would not be worth the performance impact.
You don't seem to understand what raytracing is if you disagree with what he said. RT can bring zero to some scenes, and make worlds of a difference on others, specially in those scenes he mentioned.
You should see the entire video, but I timestamped one area for you to see:
It depends on the impact of the scenes where the ray tracing is visible. But I don't see anything crazy about asking for clips during on foot world traversal.
Yeah no, I made the same point in another thread but it bears repeating. Prebaked lighting does 95% of the same thing with 10% of the GPU cost. As of right now RT is a silly argument to make simply because the hardware can't keep up with the technical requirements.
At the end of the day, if you have the hardware then sure, why not? RT looks good if implemented properly and efficiently. But the average Joe doesn't have the horsepower, nor is it worth the investment. XSX and PS5 can't handle RT to the degree it needs.
Your Metro example looks no better than TLOU2 (prebaked and rasterized). Until it proves more valuable and the hardware can support it, it's a moot point.
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kuncol02
Banned
More like 80%. and it's in best case scenario for it.
waylo
Banned
So the thing that is supposed to mimic REAL lighting, should just be batshit reflections and shiny shit everywhere so it's super noticeable at literally ALL times?
You're such a fucking dweeb dude.
BluRayHiDef
Banned
Ray tracing requires a GPU to calculate - in real time - all of the reflections and refractions of light off or through every object and character model in a scene, as well as the reflections of those objects/ character models off one another where applicable. Hence, it's very, very taxing. The fact that we now have GPUs that can do all of this with playable frame rates is incredible.
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
i'd say option 2 just looking at the lights reflected on the wet ground.
Kev Kev
Member
discuss
A.Romero
Member
I wonder if there was people arguing that 3D was not worth it and 2D should be the norm because how expensive GPU's were.
It definitely sounds like those discussions when the CD became the norm and Nintendo fanboys argued that cartridges were the best solution still on account of loading times.
RT is progress. Great for those who can afford it. The rest can just play without it. The gains are evident for anyone who cares. The rest is moot.
It definitely sounds like those discussions when the CD became the norm and Nintendo fanboys argued that cartridges were the best solution still on account of loading times.
RT is progress. Great for those who can afford it. The rest can just play without it. The gains are evident for anyone who cares. The rest is moot.
V4skunk
Banned
30fps is a design choice made by console game developers due to weak ass hardware.
RT is also the future and if you really care about 60fps you would not even consider gaming on a console.
Keihart
Member
Depends a lot on how much it's the dev actually trying to make a comparable lighting with tricks vs RT, i don't know why people keep circling this fact. It's not that some effects are impossible to do in other ways but more that you can use RT to include them easier and sometimes achieve something better for similar performance.
Amiga
Member
digging for good RT work proves the point against current viability of RT.
RT is nice to have, bigger steps are being taken towards it now. but it's still not there yet as a standard. it's not the fault of NVidia, the biggest issue is that few developers have the talent to use this tool. and few publishers will dedicated funds on something that cant be scaled and applied to consoles.
it's the gap between the top cards from both companies.
_Justinian_
Gold Member
regawdless
Banned
I'm confused by this post. The RTX in Metro does indirect lighting. Showing scenes with no indirect lighting in a vs comparison video is pointless. It's like you want to compare shadow quality and use scenes without any shadows. That's not a valid criticism?
Then the fast paced chase scene from Cyberpunk, also not a good base for any comparison. I bet no one could see differences in any other visual effects like texture quality, AO or shadows judging by that scene.
The WD Legion benchmark is again not representative of gameplay, although there the reflections are somewhat visible and easy to spot.
I'd argue that if we would take these exact scenes and take any other visual effect to compare like texture quality low vs ultra, SSR quality low vs ultra or any other effect... no one could spot them as easy as with the raytracing in this shitty compressed youtube video. I'd argue that in direct comparisons, raytraced reflections and lighting are way easier to spot than differences in most other visual settings.
If raytracing effects are worth the performance hit is very subjective and also depends on the game and what exactly it raytraces and how. For me personally, it's worth it if I manage to get at least around 50fps at 1440p. Which my 3080 easily manages.
Might be a different story for you of course.
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alabtrosMyster
Banned
It's true, if it was only these situations RT would not be worth it, pretty much end of conversation... This is a great example of confirmation bias.
This is also why some games started to use hybrid solutions, default to RT reflections when an object obstruct the view from a sreen space solution (or the SSR is close to the camera and it starts to break).
Ascend
Member
You said that. I didn't. I said that pre-selecting scenes where the difference is more prevalent is a biased way to do the test. But apparently you have reading comprehension problems.
What are you even arguing here? Or were you simply looking for an excuse to attack me personally?
Ascend
Member
For this specific case, in a way, it is valid criticism. But then again, you'd get the lower performance in those scenes too, wouldn't you?
Fair enough.
Yeah.... To me it's not worth it. Not yet.
MadchesterManc
Member
Shame nobody ever uses Deliver us the Moon for these on/off comparisons. Has some noticeable improvements when turning RTX on, especially the raytraced shadows.
Why do people conflate 'RT is not worth the performance hit on current hardware' with 'RT has no future'.
Is RT the future? 100% yes. It absolutely is without question. Is current hardware' performant enough to make it worthwhile today. Not really although reflections and or shadows are pretty good uses for the time being.
I have said it before, just like Anisotropic Filtering pre 9700 pro the hardware just is not there yet. Eventually we will get the RT equivalent of the 9700 pro and the performance cost will be 100% worth it but when it costs 30% + FPS it just is not there yet.
Is RT the future? 100% yes. It absolutely is without question. Is current hardware' performant enough to make it worthwhile today. Not really although reflections and or shadows are pretty good uses for the time being.
I have said it before, just like Anisotropic Filtering pre 9700 pro the hardware just is not there yet. Eventually we will get the RT equivalent of the 9700 pro and the performance cost will be 100% worth it but when it costs 30% + FPS it just is not there yet.
Ascend
Member
It's a deliberate red herring because according to some people everyone should worship nVidia.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
What a dumb video.
Pick better examples. All this video shows is that the creator doesn't seem to know much about RT. If he did, he would know a) what RT'd effects are used in which games (games today are not fully raytraced. It's mostly limited RT effects like: raytraced reflections, shadows, ambient occlusion and one example of a limited RT GI system in Metro), as well as b) what scenes said RT'd effects would be most visible, and so would inform the game footage selection to make a more fair comparison.
Pick better examples. All this video shows is that the creator doesn't seem to know much about RT. If he did, he would know a) what RT'd effects are used in which games (games today are not fully raytraced. It's mostly limited RT effects like: raytraced reflections, shadows, ambient occlusion and one example of a limited RT GI system in Metro), as well as b) what scenes said RT'd effects would be most visible, and so would inform the game footage selection to make a more fair comparison.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
The one on the left looks really upset that they didn't turn on RTXWhich one has raytraced shadows? (Description is included obviously, it's just an example how stupid that video is).
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Can You Tell Which One Is Which?
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