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RTTP: A few thoughts on God of War (the first game)

Veelk

Banned
So I got the God of War Saga remaster for a christmas present. I hid my immense disappointment and accepted it graciously while making a mental note to get the gift giver a bag of coal next year. But I decided to replay the first game on a whim for lack of anything better to do and boredom.

First, lets establish where I'm coming from. If you know me, you will know I hate Kratos and God of War. Not that they're bad games, because they do have their merits. Wonderful environments. Fantastic art direction (especially the later games). A cool balance of action-puzzles-platforming in it's gameplay and pacing, something I wish other games would emulate better. Really good voice acting and kill animations and music. There are definitely good things to be found in the GoW games.

All the same, for a very, very long time, I hated them viciously, for various reasons ranging from the valid and rational to blind fanboyism. I like to think I've completely outgrown the latter atleast. Anyway, first off, I found Kratos to be a horrible protagonist, and not just because he's one of the biggest douchebags in all of videogaming (more on this later). He's really distracting to play as. Otherwise, I truly did not find the game to be amazing. The basic gameplay got pretty boring pretty fast and there wasn't as much depth to be found as other games like DMC and NG. On it's own, it wasn't bad, but next to those games, it paled in comparison a harder shade than the ashes of Kratos' dead family on his skin. But more than anything, I was genuinely bothered that this franchise (particularly the first game, as I remember GoW2 being a big improvement in various aspects) got as much affection from the gaming community as it did when I felt it was extremely undeserved. Of course, that's nothing new, everyone has their games they think are vastly overrated while the larger community eats it up (call of duty is an easy target for this in today's environment), but for me, that game was GoW, and I hated it for it, and I've never had negative feelings that strong for any game since then. I'm glad, because I wasted a LOT of time and energy in pointless internet debates over various minutae of the game, just to discredit it.

It's been a long time since those days. And really, in the end, it is good to revisit old games (as much as movies and books) every once in a while to re-evaluate them. See how they still hold up. It''s also worth noting that God of War 1 is considered by several people to have has a certain integrity to it compared to the others, which makes a certain amount of sense. This is David Jaffe's original vision that is supposed to focus on the Greek Tragedy aspect of the story, where Kratos is said to be a slightly different character than what the other GoW's portray him as. "Who knows?" I thought. "Maybe this time around, without the fanboy blinders, I'll enjoy it." I didn't do that exactly (though there were parts that I enjoyed), but it helped clarify for why GoW doesn't work for me on various levels, most of them having to do with Big K himself. Also, this is kind of required viewing for this post, because I'm going to refute a few points they made. And if your a fan, watch it anyway, because it's a pretty smart piece of commentary on GoW itself.

I'll start with the positives. I really love GoW's architecture and this shows through even in the very first game. There are places in Athens and Pandora's Temple that are just beautiful. And I really liked the kind of world building that goes on in portraits and statues and things. Not just in the environments, but various characters that help establish the mood and tone of the world (The first warrior who tried to brave Pandora's Temple, for example). There is also a slight steampunk edge to the place. Not enough that it actually is steampunk, but for the purposes of gameplay, their rendition of Greece had to be more advanced than what was there in real life, leading to a lot of intricate mechanisms and even the giant Minotaur in Pandora's temple seemed to be at least partially mechanical (though there was definitely an organic body inside). And speaking of Pandora's Minotaur, that was by far my favorite boss battle in the game and one of my favorites in the whole franchise. The epic music really helped.

Honestly, much of this game would be a lot more fun if I was playing anyone except Kratos. And, again, I don't just mean because he's a douche in the narrative, but there is a certain disconnect for me for just how he plays. Which is ironic, because I often hear that Kratos is one of the best examples of characterization through gameplay. He's a big hulking brute that leaves countless dead in his wake...but that's not how he plays exactly, that's just what he looks like and what is the result of his encounters. Yeah, he looks brutal and his QTE animations portray him as being brutal but how he plays? He's a dancing ballerina. Seriously, with his spinning and how he moves and how the blades of chaos function, there is a big disconnect to me between a guy that looks like he's going to tear through you and he does, but not the way I'd expect. Sometimes, I want to put on Swan Lake to GoW gameplay to see how it fits. Honestly, I feel he plays much more true to form when he's wielding the giant sword Artemis (or Blade of Olympus in the sequels) than when he's twirling around with those chains. Combine his basic style of combat with his presumably fart propelled double jump and certain animations, I have to say I never felt that I was playing an unstoppable badass of rage and testosterone. And it's not that the combat wasn't satisfying to play, because don't get me wrong, it's fun. It's just not the image that Kratos sells....and one I generally don't like to play. Of course, there are vary specific reasons for why he plays like this.

See, the reason Kratos needs his big, wide spread, flaring blades is because of the camera. Camera's have been the bane of action games for a very long time, and a fixed camera angle helps solve many of those issues. However, that comes at a cost. Because it's a fixed camera angle, and you need to be aware of enemies, which means the camera is going to pull back. However, the player also needs to be aware of Kratos and what he's doing at all possible times. So, presumably, this is why he needs HUGE chains that give off the flares that give a very easy indication of what Kratos is doing at any given time. And of course he can't have a whip or something, because all the cool guys use swords, so he gets these rather silly looking ax-sword-on-a-chain that look even more impractical than the standard BFS that most anime heroes are saddled with. I personally don't like them. Other than the aforementioned reasons, I could never figure out how they were supposed to work even within the universe because the chains are never a consistent length or even attached to the swords and they work like rubber bands with how they stretch and snap back("GOMU GOMU NO...."). That's another disconnect, since they're supposed to laden with this image of iron sheered into flesh, but they just don't act like it. But, for gameplay purposes, it had to be this way, because the fixed camera angle demands a weapon with much greater visibility and hit range for the kind of distances it sometimes take, and normal swords didn't accomplish that purpose.

For my part, I would actually like to see them make a GoW game with a free camera just to see how the game would work differently, because I think the fixed camera makes the action less impactful somehow. I can't say for sure but.... look, have you guys ever purposely just killed enemies in high stakes combat by beating it to death in GoW? They just sort of fall over and disappear. It's pretty unsatisfying, whereas if I compare tough enemies in other action games like NG and DMC and Bayonetta, there is always a good feelings at the death of any tough enemy, even if I've beaten them several times before. I know this is also a subjective thing and others might feel differently, but it's something that has bugged me for a long time with this series, so I'd like to see someone atleast test this out. Because I just don't get the same thrill in beating down a minotaur or cyclops as I should unless I play that QTE for the millionth time. And those get so old and stupid looking. Ripping off the wings of harpies is awesome the first time. Several hours into the game, when your mashing O while harpies line up to get their wings ripped off is just stupid. Stabbing a minotaur through the back of the mouth the first time is awesome. Doing it the thousandth time, you just wonder why the bulls keep their mouth wide open like that for you every time.

So that covers gameplay for the most part. It's good, but there is a certain wierdness to kratos as a player character and I think experimenting with a free camera would benefit the franchise immensely. The narrative, or the character of Kratos, is a bit of a different story. There are two chief aspects to Kratos' as a character, Kratos the Badass and Kratos the Tragic Figure. And while I will reference the other GoW's, I want to just keep the character analysis focused to the first one. For the sake of recapping, since not everyone has played it recently, Kratos sells his soul to Ares when he finally is confronted with a war he cannot win, and works for him for a while, before accidentally kills his innocent family when he was intending to kill some other innocent family, at which point he turns against Ares. Then Ares attacks Athens, which prompts the Gods to hire Kratos to get the Pandora's Box, which will give him the power to kill Ares. They can't do it themselves because Reasons© (though Zeus was fine with it in GoW2 when Kratos was fucking shit up...). He does it, upon which the Gods pull a gotcha where they said they would "Forgive" Kratos, but aren't able to relieve him of his memories. Kratos then decides to kill himself, but they apparently waited for him to try and kill himself before rising him up to be the new God of War.

So....Kratos never came off as much of a badass to me. I know, blasphemy. After all, how can a man who has the balls to go and kill a friggen god not be badass? The concept in and of itself kind of presumes badassery, right? Well...he's too much of a pussy, for lack of a better word. Badassery isn't simply superior strength and it's implementation. Bullies or muggers or terrorists aren't badasses just because they can hurt and kill people, even people who are 'strong', right? Or, even if you think they are, that logic shouldn't apply to fictional characters, since any event or characteristic is dictated by the whims of the writer. With fiction, writers can do anything they want. Theoretically, I could write a story about how Steve Urkel blunders into Olympus and somehow overpowers Zeus. Does that make him badass, simply because I could write a story like that? I don't think so. And if nothing else, it's odd to say Kratos is unique in killing a god when it's something we do all the time as videogamers. All the DMC games (yes, even DMC2) and Ninja Gaidens and countless JRPG's and RPG's and other action games, they all had gods or god like characters in them that you flat out kill. If Kratos is badass for killing a god, he's a dime a dozen in that department. So what does qualify as badass to me personally? Well, that's something I've struggled to answer myself. It's hard to pin it down precisely. I think it has more to do with inner conflicts. I find it badass when a character has something they don't want to confront and do it anyway.

So, Kratos....Whats the nature of his inner conflict? His wife and kid are dead, and that makes him miserable. So he targets Ares for 1. Revenge and 2. Nightmares-B-Gone from Olympus Gods Inc. See, the problem is that Kratos' journey to kill Ares is actually the preferable thing for him. It's an excuse. Because he blames Ares for his problems and he wants to kill him, but what he doesn't want to do is confront himself about his own compliciteness in his family's deaths. This is a distinction that matters. Kratos states several times that he entirely blames Ares for his family's deaths, but he's the one who pledged his loyalty, he's the one who was A-OK with murdering indiscriminately. And Ares didn't do anything wrong in terms of his partnership with Kratos. Like, murdering people is obviously wrong, but I mean he didn't break any term of agreement with him. I'm honestly wondering why he even bothered with the tomfoolery. He could of flat out said to him "Go murder your wife and daughter" and Kratos would be bound by his oath to obey. Kratos got fucked and his unwillingness to confront his own guilt for what he did just comes across as cowardly. This continues in the sequels too, where he claims Zeus does him some great wrong because he puts a stop to his warmongering (Which, btw, is literally the exact same thing Ares did that forced the gods to hire Kratos as a deitic hitman). Kratos 'having the balls' to kill Ares is the direct result of him not having the balls to own up to his own fuck ups.

Also, as an aside, I think it's also important to have other badasses to compare yourself to. This is important because part of being a badass is how a character is seperated from the environment. This is a common mistake I feel a lot of people make, where they make the protagonist the only competent person the world. GaurdianE made a thread that explained a bit on how Vergil is important to Dante and the player. Vergil isn't analogous to Ares here, because Ares has a disproportionate power advantage from the onset. Vergil, as a rival, starts off on the same level as the player, but is a character out of the players control in the main game. This is an important thing to establish because it shows that there are NPC's with the same exact capabilities as you, so when the protagonist beats people on a level playing field, that feels badass too. The later God of War's had other Heroes, like Hercules. But in the first game, interestingly, probably has more unique NPC's than any other GoW, but they're all basically created to either aid Kratos or just be cowardly while he's all awesome because he isn't scared about whatever they're scared of. There's the boat captain, who exists just to establish Kratos' dickishness, soldiers and citizens that are all terrified, the Oracle that needs to be saved....just about the closest that comes to Kratos' prestige is the first soldier that Kratos meets once he reaches Pandora's temple. He was the first warrior to try and get through it, and was clearly f'ed up, so as punishment he has to burn the bodies of everyone who comes after. He's essentially the only other Hero that Kratos meets that is like him, and all we really learn about him is how he's a failure. Kratos is the only person that is 1. competent 2. able to intervene and 3. not the enemy. This isn't a huge point, but given all the mythology that David Jaffe was able to weave into the worldbuilding in Pandora's temple and stuff, it's surprising he didn't include any kind of rival character or something to help establish Kratos' badassery, if that was his intention.

But the intent is the question, isn't it? Again, it's often said that David Jaffe crafted this tale around the traditional Greek Tragedies, which Extra Credits manages to give a crash course in with their video. But there is a very strong element missing here: The ending, where Kratos is risen up to be a god. The important distinction here is what Kratos wants is to no be haunted by nightmares anymore. What he is given is Godhood instead. And here is where the crux of whether it is a true tragedy is. Because on one hand, Kratos is now forced to live with the guilt of his family being killed for all eternity. On the other hand, he is a fucking god. And I...just can't see how he as a character didn't come out of this deal with way more than what he was promised.

Because it is simply unbelievable to me that Kratos actually cares about his family, despite his evident sadness. Kratos has been killing people (innocent people from the sound of things in the flashbacks) for years. He's was a warmonger before he met his wife. He was one after he met his wife. He was one after he killed his wife. The only character trait that changes in Kratos in the entire story is that he, himself, is sad and can't seem to get over it. Keep in mind, he has absolutely no interest in doing right by the people he loves. He never asks the gods to bring back his wife and kid. He never asks the gods as a personal favor to make sure they're in Elysium. He never asks to see if he can go down and see them himself. Even from Athena, who is asking him to make the ultimate sacrifice, to who he can basically demand anything he wants, he doesn't ask this. He asks to make his nightmares go away. His pain is the only one that he wants to relieve. He doesn't really seem bothered by the thought that his wife could be getting tortured or whatever they do in hades. At no point do we see a flashback where his wife is not terrified of Kratos. She's either in a flashback asking him to stop his warmongering (to which he replies "lolno"), or she's in that hallucination thing that Ares does to Kratos in the end. And I'd like to point out this scene in particular. Keep in mind that Kratos thinks this is actually real. His wife and child are alive and well again. He's defended them this time. And now, they're safe, and they are begging Kratos to take them home....and he's busy laughing at Ares, all but saying "COME AT ME BRO".

Perhaps there is just a large culture difference between modern society and Ancient Greece, but we're supposed to believe this is a man who would spend 10 years mourning the loss of a wife he ignores at every opportunity, who is characterized by nothing except her ignored plea to have him stop doing indiscriminant murder? Furthermore, we are supposed to believe this is a man who the powers of Godhood have no in the light of that death? That he loves and mourns her so much that, when he finally thinks he has her back, his first priority is to tell his mortal enemy he can blow him instead of making sure she's safe? No....I certainly don't. I have played Chains of Olympus, which at last takes a moment to establish Kratos' connection to his family, where he makes his daughter a flute and has to let her go to save her, but none of this was established in GoW1, which is the one where everyone points to as the main story establishing the tragedy aspect of his character. What I think Kratos is, is a Comedy figure, in the classic sense of the word. He commits the ultimate crime, and is rewarded with it beyond his wildest dreams. He never has to be confronted that it wasn't Ares who slaughtered his wife and child, but he did, of his own will (even if it was in ignorance). He never has to confront what a fucked up person he is. Kratos is a horrible fucking human being and when he was pushed to complete despair, it got reversed in the strongest way possible. As such, I never feel that we get any true resolution on anything here. Kratos is, was and forever shall be a violent idiot. He doesn't change in any meaningful way, and never finds any truth about himself.

If God of war had ended 1 minute early, where Kratos simply fell into the sea and died, I probably would admire it for the tragedy it would truly be. The story of a ruthless man who destroyed all that was good to him, and was never even aware he did it. But being rewarded for it changes everything, unless you take to believe he really just can't get over that wife and child, which is just not a compatible character trait for how he's portrayed. It's simply too big a leap for me to believe he'd mourn someone to this extent, while establishing him to be a sociopath in every other instance, even the few interactions he had with that person he supposedly loved.

So, I've been trying not to ramble, but I've been writing this for two hours, and I think I better end it here. Final thoughts are that God of War is a decent game and other games would do well to emulate certain aspects. In fact, I would love a God of War with a deeper action system and a protagonist that wasn't one of the most insufferable assholes in fiction. I just don't think it should have ever become the megafranchise it became. There are far more deserving games.

Update: I added an additional section here if anyone didn't get enough GoW bashing.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
I am sorry you spend so much time and energy stating the obvious, i.e. God of War has shitty writing and an even shittier and insufferable protagonist.

Don't mean to downplay your critique, because it's pretty much spot-on, but I just don't see why anyone would spend so much energy on things they hate. xD Life is too short for that?
 

Dawg

Member
If God of War 4 is same old Kratos, I'll be disappointed.

I'll still play it, but I'll be disappointed.

Never liked Kratos. Actually, I think he's one of the few playable characters where I'm constantly like "why did you do that?", "...I wouldn't do that", "that doesn't make any sense" & "stop being so angry goddamnit".
 

Veelk

Banned
I am sorry you spend so much time and energy stating the obvious, i.e. God of War has shitty writing and an even shittier and insufferable protagonist.

Don't mean to downplay your critique, because it's pretty much spot-on, but I just don't see why anyone would spend so much energy on things they hate. xD Life is too short for that?

*shrug* I like writing up analysis. And I think it's important to denote specifically how something sucks, rather than just saying it does. Besides, it isn't obvious to everyone. There are people who claim that the first God of War was genuinely well written, or that Kratos is awesome. I wanted to put down exactly how that was not so.
 

fart town usa

Gold Member
That is way too much text for a thread concerning GOW...

I'm sorry.


Kratos is probably the least likable and most poorly written protagonist of the last 10 years. Dude ruined the series right from the get go. Such an insufferable asshole.



ARES!!!!
 

fart town usa

Gold Member
*shrug* I like writing up analysis. And I think it's important to denote specifically how something sucks, rather than just saying it does. Besides, it isn't obvious to everyone. There are people who claim that the first God of War was genuinely well written, or that Kratos is awesome. I wanted to put down exactly how that was not so.

I'm sure these people are lovely and all but they're probably all bros, lol.

No ill will intended.
 

Blearth

Banned
I like Kratos.

Sometimes you just wanna fuck shit up, you know? It's nice to play a character who feels the same way.
 

fart town usa

Gold Member
I like Kratos.

Sometimes you just wanna fuck shit up, you know? It's nice to play a character who feels the same way.

Mario accomplishes the same thing, busting blocks and jumping on everyone's head. Dude even rides a dinosaur that eat enemies and spits them out, sometimes involving fire.

Kratos doesn't do that...

edit-

mario murders bowser's entire family as well, ruthless, absolutely ruthless.
 

Veelk

Banned
I like Kratos.

Sometimes you just wanna fuck shit up, you know? It's nice to play a character who feels the same way.

It's not that I don't sympathize with that feeling, I have to point out that Kratos doesn't feel that way. Well, he did before when he was just a spartan captain. After that, his fucking up of shit always had purpose. First it was for the glory of Ares, which I guess is the same thing as fucking shit up for it's own sake in a way, but he was fucking up shit as a job. He still enjoyed it, but then the whole wife thing happened. And then he fucked shit up for revenge.

He always fucks shit up, but he hasn't wanted to do it for it's own sake. He does it as a way to get back to THE OH SO CRUEL WORLD THAT TOOK AWAY HIS FAMILY.

Kratos is a miserable bastard. If you want a character that fucks shit up for the sheer joy of it, that's Bayonetta, or even Dante in certain DMC games. They're fucking up of shit only happens to coincide with the plot of the main games. They'd otherwise do it for fun anyway.
 

czk

Typical COD gamer
This is a very deep and accurate analysis, I had a blast reading it on the toilet today.
 

Corpsepyre

Banned
One of the best games out there for the PS2, and one that left an impression on me to this day. I dont think the first game has been topped in the storytelling department . though, the later games did improve immensely in the gameplay. The combat might be simplistic, but it's quite a blast and very satisfying. I don't need to be doing combos out of my ass to feel satisfaction from the combat system. It was more about the adventure for me, and it delivered in spades.

As for Kratos, I immediately liked him. I'm the type who enjoys the bad guys in movies more than the good guys. They make a good movie. Kratos embodied the best of that, and straddled that fine line. That's what makes a compelling character, in my opinion.
 

whoszed

Member
For some reason I don't see Kratos as completely unlikable. I root for the poor guy. Someone like Trevor from GTA5 on the other hand I found entertaining but a complete psycho who I couldn't relate to at all. I'd argue that Walter White ended up doing more fucked up shit than Kratos yet I on some level nearly always rooted for Walt to keep on going. It's a really thin line between creating someone who is just disgusting and someone who you want to succeed.
 

Bookman

Member
Great thread and analys. Somehow I think that kratos is a good symbol 4 rage and anger. The aspect of him blaming Ares and not himself could tap in a subconscious desire to just give in to anger and the uncivilized part of the self. although other game characters done the same thing GOW has a strong symbolism. the greek gods i think is a strong represent of the state, old ideas , religion youre boss etc..

Kratos represent a childish disier 4 revolt. Just the fact that he abandons his family when the games industry "discovered" that many players were older than previously thought is perhaps a subconscious fantasy of men forming family?

Kratos revolt against everything. The character in Ninja Gaiden is bound to her morals and ninja morale? Kratos not so much.it may sound horrible when culture is directed against human lowest instincts but it is also the culture task, to let off a little steam virituellt so it does not seep out in real life
 

Javin98

Banned
I never understand why people hate on selfish and one dimensional video game characters. It absolutely makes no sense to me when people say they hate Kratos or Joel(he doesn't fall into the one dimensional group). I, for one, love to play as a selfish and mass murdering bastard in video games. It just feels better than having to rescue civilians and defeating enemies by knocking them out, like say, Batman in the Arkham games. But then again, I'm someone who loves extreme violence and gore in video games
Edit: Fixed to avoid confusion
 

antitrop

Member
Some people enjoy the games get over yourself.

GZ9h1AI.jpg
 

Hasney

Member
Some people enjoy the games get over yourself.

And some people think they're shit get over yourself.

Great read OP. I agree mostly, if one game ever needed a re-skin in terms of just changing the character and story, it's this. The most annoying part of it is Kratos always gets forced in when a 3rd party wants to use a Sony character and that would actually put me off buying the Sony one if it's available on other formats because he's so dull.
 

Eggbok

Member
The character in Ninja Gaiden is bound to her morals and ninja morale?

Her? Do you mean him, as in Ryu? And no Ryu is pretty ruthless, some guy is begging for his life in Ninja Gaiden 3 and you casually walk up to him and slice the fuck out of him.
Ninja Gaiden 3 never existed though.
Ninja Gaiden 3 is a shitty game but I liked the idea of Ryu getting cursed with the Grip of Murder. It essentially was a curse that started rotting his arm and he would feel the pain of all the victims he's killed. And it would spread over his body until he was gone. It could have been done a lot better but I liked the idea.


I can never see Kratos as an asshole though, he got played so much lol. Few things though since I haven't played GoW in a long time.

Wasn't Kratos essentially hired by Athena to kill Ares, which is why he became the god of war?
Didn't Zeus act like he was helping Kratos defeat the Colossus and then betray him. So is Kratos wrong for wanting revenge?
 

Fisty

Member
GOW 1 was definitely set apart from the others. Its has a tragic and self-contained plot, it completely works on its own without the others and has a great, humanising twist. While other entries took it from Greek Tragedy toward a more Greek Epic direction, the first one really came out of nowhere and floored everyone, myself included. Was it Jaffe directly, who knows, but the first game definitely stands alone even if 2 does combat and set pieces better
 
I don't agree at all with your talk about the way he fights. Most of his attacks are all about brute strength and just tearing people apart.

His combos may start off as just swirling hits, but they usually end with a brute force attack. I think the only ones that could be considered weak or whatever is his light attacks ... because they are light attacks. Meant to increase the combo meter and get more orbs, not to kill the enemy quickly.

The heavy attacks are all brutal as hell and satisfying. How can leaping in the air with a bit of slow mo thrown in and then slamming your attack on the pavement, tossing enemies in the air not be satisfying? Especially from a standard attack. Or uppercutting enemies into the air, grabbing them, throwing them down, catching them on the way back up from bouncing off the pavement, throwing them again, then catching them again and breaking them in half.

I dunno. Sounds like you just have something against the overall main character so just nitpicking to an extreme degree.
 

petran79

Banned
that game, along with MGS3 is also the one that practically made a PS2 worth owning and demonstrated the console's true capabilities. The "Uncharted" of 2005 so to speak. Regarding the action-adventure genre at least. Prior to that game PS2 was either marred with mediocre ports or exclusives that didnt take advantage of the hardware.

But GOW graphics and pacing were something unparalleled back then. GOW2 wasnt so good, since it offered more or less the samegame with a few improvements. GOW3 though surpassed both in storytelling. Too bad for the ending. GOW4 was disappointing in everything that made the first game great and shouldnt have been produced at all.

Of course in 2005 PS2 had literally no competition. Dreamcast was gone, its classics still lasting few years, Gamecube lacked the marketing and gamerbase to compete on equal terms despite the better hardware and Microsoft were preparing their next-gen console.

It is no surprise that 2005 was the defining year for PS2. GOW, MGS3, SOTC, RE4 etc
Too heavy a legacy to be repeated
 

MaDKaT

Member
Read through it and honestly it just reads like someone who wasted a lot of time on a game they vehemently think is undeserving of the praise it got. I personally thought the game was pretty great at the time(2 is still my favorite). Loved the story and setting and I also really enjoy Kratos as a char. He is an insufferable raging asshole with virtually no self reflection(some glimpses here and there lol) and when given the chance sets his eyes on anyone else for blame. He may have loved his family but his #1 love is war/carnage/power. Ares tricking him into slaughtering his wife and daughter just fueled his true love. However, at its core, the story is nothing more than a plot device to move you forward though the various set pieces and is really no deeper than 'but our princes is in another castle'
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
I never understand why people hate on selfish and one dimensional video game characters. It absolutely makes no sense to me when people say they hate Kratos or Joel.
What the.... these characters couldn't be more different. Kratos is a badly written insufferable obnoxious prick with no redeeming value, and is indeed one-dimensional and stupid. Joel is the complete opposite, he's selfish but he's not one-dimensional and he's one of the best-written characters in gaming. It's pretty damn reductive to lump them together because they're "selfish".
 

Bookman

Member
Her? Do you mean him, as in Ryu? And no Ryu is pretty ruthless, some guy is begging for his life in Ninja Gaiden 3 and you casually walk up to him and slice the fuck out of him.
Sorry I mean Ryu. Actually I thought that just that scene was a little off character, never understod that particular sequence, anyways I did not like Ninja Gaiden 3, though killing a robot dinosaur was kind of cool
 

OnPoint

Member
I disagree that the game, in the end, is not a tragedy.

He wanted release from his tortured memories. He fought and scrapped and in the end, right as his wish was in grasp, he was snatched up and cursed to live with it forever as a god.

That's tragedy, and the kind of tragedy the Greek myths were full of.

That said, he really did become a super shitty character as the rest of the series went on. I didn't hate him in the first game, but you make valid points about how he's unlikable right from the start.
 
Didn't David Jaffe designed Kratos to encompass the angsty teenager molded into a character? It was really intention and the intended design of the character. They just added a backdrop of a well-told story for such a 1 dimensional characterization which is quite rare when you think about it. They could've just placed kill-arenas and throw away the plot but SSM went the extra mile of making a cinematic hack-n-slash - which I believe they have accomplished.

Do I feel the series has worn out? Definitely! Ascension proved that. There's really no more going for Kratos than GOW3.
 
IMHO Kratos is a cautionary tale on the problems with letting anger and rage rule your life. If you're having difficulty empathising with him, then you're probably ok on that front.

Sorry about Ascension
 

double jump

you haven't lived until a random little kid ask you "how do you make love".
I don't agree with a lot of what you said but that was a good review.
Would love to see one of the devs read threw and respond to it.

Gow 1 is in my top 5 but I was #dead at you comparing krato's fighting move set to a dancer. lol.
 

EGM1966

Member
I never understand why people hate on selfish and one dimensional video game characters. It absolutely makes no sense to me when people say they hate Kratos or Joel. I, for one, love to play as a selfish and mass murdering bastard in video games. It just feels better than having to rescue civilians and defeating enemies by knocking them out, like say, Batman in the Arkham games. But then again, I'm someone who loves extreme violence and gore in video games

Joel? How is Joel from TLOU one-dimensional in any way? He's one of the most layered characters in a videogame. Shirley, you can't be serious?
 

Javin98

Banned
Joel? How is Joel from TLOU one-dimensional in any way? He's one of the most layered characters in a videogame. Shirley, you can't be serious?
What the.... these characters couldn't be more different. Kratos is a badly written insufferable obnoxious prick with no redeeming value, and is indeed one-dimensional and stupid. Joel is the complete opposite, he's selfish but he's not one-dimensional and he's one of the best-written characters in gaming. It's pretty damn reductive to lump them together because they're "selfish".
Sorry, I was only referring to Kratos as one dimensional. Joel is no way one dimensional. He has understandable reasons for his actions and is one of the best written characters in video games
 
Huh? Oh just for reference, not intended otherwise. FWIW, they're originally inspired by Rygar. He just had a sword up until that point, although he already had the double jump.

We'd had the fixed camera for nearly a year by then too. That comes from ICO & MGS. I put that in first thing after I came back from the break after [edit] the other thing that got cancelled.
 
The hell? OP's just wrotten a well thought out analysis.

Good job OP.

I read every word OP has stated. He just doesn't like the game. He wants something else. I think he should ignore this title and play something he might like. Seems like a great waste of time to bash a game he should just ignore.
 

Veelk

Banned
Huh? Oh just for reference, not intended otherwise. FWIW, they're originally inspired by Rygar. He just had a sword up until that point, although he already had the double jump.

We'd had the fixed camera for nearly a year by then too. That comes from ICO & MGS. I put that in first thing after I came back from the break after [edit] the other thing that got cancelled.

I didn't mean to say that GoW invented the fixed camera angle, I was just noting the positives and negatives of implementing that design in an action game. The benefit is that it solves major camera issues other action games have due to a free camera. The cost of that is that you lose a lot visual fidelity in the chaos of action when the player is not shown at an optimal angle, so that has to be compensated for with high visual indicators. Inspired by Rygar or not, it seems clear to me that decision was implemented with these practical features in mind.
 

Veelk

Banned
I'm bumping this thread because I noticed another thing I want to talk about in the GoW gameplay that I forgot regarding empowerment. For this particular notation, I am going to be heavily comparing it to Bayonetta mechanically, but i want to stress that the point of that comparison is regarding how it affects empowerment (or the feel of), rather than just it being better (though, for the curious, it totally is).

Empowerment means to be in control of a situation, to be unrestricted. It's when you are in control. No game can offer 100% true empowerment because such a thing would cease to be any kind of challenge. There must be Things You Can Do and Things You Can't Do. Still, giving the feeling of empowerment, of total control, is another matter. To use an analogy, think of how every game, no matter how open, is ultimately only open to a certain degree. In the end, all games are linear. Not not all of them feel linear, do they?

I've been replaying bayonetta here and there and one thing I've noticed is how Bayonetta has the ability to feel basically unstoppable at any given moment. How does the game play to make that happen? Well, like God of War, Bayonetta utilizes a dial-a-combo system mechanic, meaning if you input commands in a particular way in time, a different attack results than if you did them individually. X-Y-X is not the same the same as X, Y, X. This is seperate from DMC's freestyle combat, where a singular input has the same outcome regardless of the input preceding it. Dial-a-combo, in most games, is usually balances high damage output by forcing a period of vulnerability. It's a risk reward system where, if you begin a higher damage combo in the wrong place or time, the enemy has an opening in which they can hit you and there is nothing you can do about it.

This is extremely evident in GoW's higher difficulties, where you essentially can't use any higher damaging combo if the enemy isn't a mile away, because otherrwise they will muscle through and damage you. Therefore, you are limited to the classic [],[],[] /\ combo. It's cancellable at almost any point, but the ending /\ has potential to do high damage. Still, dodging or blocking has it's own price. You don't take the damage the enemy had tried to give you, but you have sacrificed the combo you've been building up. Now, you have to start from scratch. The result, at the highest possible difficulty, is a very conservative playstyle, where you whittle the enemy's health down whenever you aren't running scared for your life from their attacks.

Of course, this is to be expected, right? As we established, a character must have limits to what they can do, or the game would be too easy. If Kratos could keep outputting the highest damage possible at no risk or consequence, the game would be broken, right?

Compare this to bayonetta's mechanics, where it is dial a combo, but they are cancellable at ANY point, regardless of anything happening. One would think this would provide an imbalance, but this is balanced by the enemies being tough and aggressive motherfuckers. This is even moreso on the higher difficulties, where enemy speed and aggression is heightened, to the point that if you couldn't dodge out of anything, you'd be massacred. But that still means you have to restart your combo's at each dodge, right? Nope, Dodge Offset, a truly brilliant innovation that allows you to continue your attack while still evading damage. Provided you are skilled enough to accomplish it at every turn, you are able to provide maximal damage output or enemy manipulation with easy, while laughing as they feebly try to get any hit they can.

Granted, I am talking higher difficulty. Played on normal difficulty, the enemies God of War throws at you are neither aggressive enough nor damaging enough to stop you from unleashing the full might of Kratos' arsenal. In that context, he is as empowered in combat as he should be in terms of gameplay alone. And this is how he should be. After all, he's characterized by being a violent madman, who's ferocity is unstoppable. It's just that it is very stoppable. The feeling of power turns to bitter ash when you think how Kratos can only fight this way, the way he's meant to, because the enemies are at a stat disadvantage and if they were fully empowered, he'd have to fight conservatively. This isn't a gap that can be compensated by skill either. If the enemies are close enough to close in and hit you, attempting the powerful techniques that Kratos ought to be defined by is just not gonna work.

This isn't helped by the random sequences that also put weaknesses on Kratos for the sake of a puzzle or platforming section. For pacing purposes, I understand why this wide variety is necessary it's difficult to constantly come up with nonphysical challenges if you keep your character's level of strength consistant through the game. Still, that doesn't erase the cognitive dissonance you have when you see him literally overpower a 500 foot giant's death grip with his bare hands, only to somehow not be able to just punch through whatever door won't open until you get a thing in another thing or whatever. I've played God of War 1, and while I'm sure there are other examples, the hades pits come to mind. Specifically the climbing section with the rotating blades. This is a particularly reviled section of GoW that most everyone agrees could have used some work. However, what really annoyed me about it is how it disempowered Kratos and this the player. So Kratos has to climb up the rotating wall as spikes pass along. If you touch a single spike with any part of your body, you fall. It's so baffling to see this supposed warrior demi-god, badass among badasses, get the slightest scratch on his toe and have that cause his entire body to convulse, releasing his grip on the tower, where he then plummets helplessly to the ground. And Kratos gets held up by things like this more frequently than any other major action protagonist.
 
that is why every other protagonist is ezio or dudebro or anything that is shoe-horned in. we are basically getting the funneled-down tastes of the majority of people and that is why most protagonists are cut from the same tree.


we can't have protagonists who aren't relatable, charming, funny, etc.
 

Schryver

Member
I just played the first game for the 1st time recently and Kratos seemed totally fine. Yeah he was a little mad because he was tricked into killing his own family...what's so crazy about that? I'm assuming it gets worse as the games go on but I was fine with the way GoW played out.
 
I just played the first game for the 1st time recently and Kratos seemed totally fine. Yeah he was a little mad because he was tricked into killing his own family...what's so crazy about that? I'm assuming it gets worse as the games go on but I was fine with the way GoW played out.

Saying he was "tricked" is being very generous. And that's ignoring that he was in the middle of killing a bunch of innocent people as a hired mercenary essentially.
 

Harp

Member
God of War is one of these best games I have every played. As a complete package. Just know every games is not for everyone. Someone should do a write about people that think they have to like something because other people do
 
The ending, where Kratos is risen up to be a god. The important distinction here is what Kratos wants is to not be haunted by nightmares anymore. What he is given is Godhood instead. And here is where the crux of whether it is a true tragedy is. Because on one hand, Kratos is now forced to live with the guilt of his family being killed for all eternity. On the other hand, he is a fucking god. And I...just can't see how he as a character didn't come out of this deal with way more than what he was promised.

I'm pretty sure it's quite clear that Kratos isn't happy at the end. You seem to be selectively ignoring that, and the effect that has on the context of the ending.
 

Veelk

Banned
I'm pretty sure it's quite clear that Kratos isn't happy at the end. You seem to be selectively ignoring that, and the effect that has on the context of the ending.

I know he isn't happy. I just don't believe his character wouldn't be. For as someone as selfish and power hungry as Kratos is, the character he is portrayed as is not someone I can see believably giving that much of a shit about anyone else that he is still bummed about it when he has achieved fucking godhood.
 
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