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Rttp: Suikoden III
- Thread starter SolVanderlyn
- Start date
Suikoden 3 is one of my top 3 Rpg with Chrono Cross and Xenogears I think.
As much as what you say on the story is true, it's awesome, I think you're too hard on the battles/wars as well as the music.
Yes the battle system is different and could have been greatly improved, but on the other hand Suikoden 3 gets the best management out of all games, especially with the Skill system that really add lots of depth. Suikoden 5 had something like that, but far from being as good.
And the managing your army really makes wars more appealing as you can watch how your teams fight by themselves, thanks to the runes/skills they got.
The real problem is more that the game doesn't tell directly what each "class" does.
Because every characters act depending on their class (written in the status).
Would have been nice to at least get a clear description of these.
You're also a little too harsh on musics, there are some other pretty good/great ones :
Mysterious People (especially in the context of the story)
Blade (considering battle themes were never so good in this series it's a nice one)
Path Destroyer (Same as the previous one. Like the rhythm and grave tone)
The Council (maybe it's just me but I like this one, works well with what it plays with)
Green Grave Marker (simple but effective)
Stupid Ducks (An excellent town theme)
Large Cavity (I just think it's good, overall most town themes are interesting)
To the Closed Area (A very nice Suikoden-y field area)
Farm Village (Another pretty good town theme)
And I could mention some others like the theme of Vinay del Zexay among a few others.
Maybe it's just because of the instruments, which makes it feel lighter or something, but I think it goes well with the world (with rural tribes).
As much as what you say on the story is true, it's awesome, I think you're too hard on the battles/wars as well as the music.
Yes the battle system is different and could have been greatly improved, but on the other hand Suikoden 3 gets the best management out of all games, especially with the Skill system that really add lots of depth. Suikoden 5 had something like that, but far from being as good.
And the managing your army really makes wars more appealing as you can watch how your teams fight by themselves, thanks to the runes/skills they got.
The real problem is more that the game doesn't tell directly what each "class" does.
Because every characters act depending on their class (written in the status).
Would have been nice to at least get a clear description of these.
You're also a little too harsh on musics, there are some other pretty good/great ones :
Mysterious People (especially in the context of the story)
Blade (considering battle themes were never so good in this series it's a nice one)
Path Destroyer (Same as the previous one. Like the rhythm and grave tone)
The Council (maybe it's just me but I like this one, works well with what it plays with)
Green Grave Marker (simple but effective)
Stupid Ducks (An excellent town theme)
Large Cavity (I just think it's good, overall most town themes are interesting)
To the Closed Area (A very nice Suikoden-y field area)
Farm Village (Another pretty good town theme)
And I could mention some others like the theme of Vinay del Zexay among a few others.
Maybe it's just because of the instruments, which makes it feel lighter or something, but I think it goes well with the world (with rural tribes).
If you begin with the first one, it's not. The game is short and introduce the series with easy mechanics.
I wouldn't follow the story order but release order (simply 1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
witchedwiz
Member
i share the sentiment, though I liked more the return to the classic system with suikoden 5..
nevertheless, suikoden 3 is a game that stands on its own leg, that has had only the misfortune of coming after the most loved chapter of the saga (suikoden2) and thus be compared to the superior game :/
Since it wasn't released in Europe until the PSN release, I didn't get to play this game until recently, but finished it last January. I know that, if I had played it when it came out, I would have been disappointed by its departures from Suikoden II. Yet, despite its problems, I wound it really liking it, but primarily for its narrative.
The gameplay was not as well-considered as the storytelling -- it's plain that the game's focus was lasered on that, which is something I laud but feel the need to criticise. There were numerous odd design choices, like causing fire magic to hurt your allies while giving you practically zero control over their movement. Only being able to control your party in pairs meant that, if your Flame Champion was casting Explosion, the other half would probably charge into the mass of enemies for some melee action before having a giant flaming rock land on their head!
But really, the lasting feeling I get from finishing it is sadness. Especially at the end of Suikoden III, they went into a lot of effort to tease about where future stories would go. Learning about
It's possible, right? But do we know? No. And we almost certainly never will. Konami avoided the future determinedly with Suikoden IV and V, and now it's over a decade since Suikoden V came out. To have caught up after all these years and be met with what can be interpreted as a cliffhanger is deeply dispiriting.
But yeah, I really enjoyed the game a lot. I had picked up much of the story over the years, but seeing it all presented as intended, in its own nonlinear fashion, really gave me an appreciation for how bold and pioneering the game tried to be in its time. It's freeing to have filled in the major gap in my Suikoden-knowledge, even if it's fifteen years later.
The gameplay was not as well-considered as the storytelling -- it's plain that the game's focus was lasered on that, which is something I laud but feel the need to criticise. There were numerous odd design choices, like causing fire magic to hurt your allies while giving you practically zero control over their movement. Only being able to control your party in pairs meant that, if your Flame Champion was casting Explosion, the other half would probably charge into the mass of enemies for some melee action before having a giant flaming rock land on their head!
But really, the lasting feeling I get from finishing it is sadness. Especially at the end of Suikoden III, they went into a lot of effort to tease about where future stories would go. Learning about
the future world of absolute order completely recontextualises Leknaat's role in the series -- in each game, she was the Executor of the Balance, guiding each Tenkai onto a path that fought the disorder of corrupt empires and invading kingdoms, presumably with the aim of realising this World of Dharma that Luc envisions. Yet she also seems to be taking revenge upon Harmonia; perhaps for the destruction of the Village of the Gate Rune so many centuries prior. She steals away Hikusaak's clone from Crystal Valley and raises him as her pupil. Luc then even steals Sarah from Harmonia, and she is also raised in Leknaat's care. It could just be a matter of revenge, but what if Hikusaak represented more than the leader of the country that destroyed her village? What if, instead, he was the Executor of Chaos; opposed to all of Leknaat's goals, where each national disaster is merely a battle within their own personal war of influence?
It's possible, right? But do we know? No. And we almost certainly never will. Konami avoided the future determinedly with Suikoden IV and V, and now it's over a decade since Suikoden V came out. To have caught up after all these years and be met with what can be interpreted as a cliffhanger is deeply dispiriting.
But yeah, I really enjoyed the game a lot. I had picked up much of the story over the years, but seeing it all presented as intended, in its own nonlinear fashion, really gave me an appreciation for how bold and pioneering the game tried to be in its time. It's freeing to have filled in the major gap in my Suikoden-knowledge, even if it's fifteen years later.
DukeLongfellow
Member
I got to play it back in 8th grade when I was sick and it remains one of my favorite gaming memories of all time.
I remember I hated it at first due to unimpressive graphics and no voice acting. Also haven't tried the series before. Man, am I glad I kept on going. I think it singlehandedly kept me in good spirits helping me to get healthy.
I played all of the games since then and this one remains my favorite, followed by Suiko II.
I am probably one of the rare people who really liked the Thomas segments. It felt down to earth and I cared for the cast.
I remember I hated it at first due to unimpressive graphics and no voice acting. Also haven't tried the series before. Man, am I glad I kept on going. I think it singlehandedly kept me in good spirits helping me to get healthy.
I played all of the games since then and this one remains my favorite, followed by Suiko II.
I am probably one of the rare people who really liked the Thomas segments. It felt down to earth and I cared for the cast.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Although I do agree with a lot of the flaws that have been pointed out, I still think it might be my favorite in the series or at least tied with 2. Nostalgia definitely plays a factor for me though as it's the first game I played in the series as I never could find copies of the original games as a kid/teenager. I just love how they pulled off the multiple PoV story, even if it did mean seeing the same areas over and over.
The final flame is truly something special.
The final flame is truly something special.
All the people I know who played it enjoyed Thomas chapters too including me.
The whole game has great characters, so much details. If you care about te world, you can't really dislike any chapter.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
NAh Thomas chapter was great probably the most hardest parts of the game too because man those guys were just normal ol ppl so it made since they were weak
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Yeah, that wasn't hyperbole. I game at night and I literally did fall asleep a couple of times.
Hippopuncher12
Member
While I liked the game, it was probably my 3rd favorite Suikoden overall. However, it has one of the best intros of any game ever. <3 Chris!
Edit: Would love a PS2 to PS4 release for it though. It's been years since I have played it.
Edit: Would love a PS2 to PS4 release for it though. It's been years since I have played it.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Time for HOT TAKES.
Suikoden V's introductory 8 hours are its best stretch. *point at avatar*
The music for III is pretty damn good; Exceeding Love is the best "anime intro" ever done (there ain't many good so it looks even better).
Thomas' chapter was neat. *point at avatar again*
I really REALLY wish the character designer for this and 2 stuck with the series. One of the best.
The multisight system made the narrative better but the playing worse.
The "three-legged race" combat system REMOVED options rather than allowed them. Bad. Also made fire magic dangerous.
Really, really shouldnt have been 3D (or shoulda been supported by Konami more).
We're never to see past this point...
Suikoden V's introductory 8 hours are its best stretch. *point at avatar*
The music for III is pretty damn good; Exceeding Love is the best "anime intro" ever done (there ain't many good so it looks even better).
Thomas' chapter was neat. *point at avatar again*
I really REALLY wish the character designer for this and 2 stuck with the series. One of the best.
The multisight system made the narrative better but the playing worse.
The "three-legged race" combat system REMOVED options rather than allowed them. Bad. Also made fire magic dangerous.
Really, really shouldnt have been 3D (or shoulda been supported by Konami more).
We're never to see past this point...
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Well it cant be the black sheep of the series when, you know, IV is right there.
I beat this game when it came out and Im a fan of the series and your story recap read like all new information to me. Weird! I guess I need to replay it cause none of that stuck with me.
I beat this game when it came out and Im a fan of the series and your story recap read like all new information to me. Weird! I guess I need to replay it cause none of that stuck with me.
Suikoden 3 is one of those games that I have great memories of but would never play again. The intro was amazing, the plot was very good, Luc and his crew were incredible, but I'm sure the backtracking and Thomas nonsense would make me lose patience way too fast on a replay. I'll just stay with the good memories.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
For the most part, I dislike anthromorphs in Suikoden in general. IV's cats were terrible. Kobolds were the worst part of II. Gengen. That kid-pup with the slingshot. Can't stand them in most Suiko games, really; even in III there's Mutt. Are those damn beavers in V (though they were pretty amazing on water-based army levels hhh).
But Sgt. Joe was awesome.
Was fond of Gau the one-eyed kobold in Geddoe's Frontier Defense Force too, probably my favorite in the series. Reminds me of those demon-dogs from the Onimusha 3 opening CGI movie.
Thank you both! Suikoden is now at the top of my old-games queue after I wrap Shadow Hearts and Covenant.
reaganator
Banned
My all-time favorite Suikoden entry and top JRPGs.
To this day I don't understand why there isn't a direct continuation of III. III did such a wonderful job of world-building it's almost a crime what they did to us with IV.
To this day I don't understand why there isn't a direct continuation of III. III did such a wonderful job of world-building it's almost a crime what they did to us with IV.
Nose Master
Member
Stealth best Suikoden. 2 is good, but it's pretty crazy overrated.
Series creator Yoshitaka Murayama left Konami during III's development. He had supposedly made a setting bible for the rest of the Suikoden team to draw from, but it's possible they didn't feel confident moving the setting forward without him.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Why skip 1? People tend to rate it low, but it's one of my favorites. If you like 2, you'll like 1. Extremely short and snippy game, too, so it's not at all taxing to play.
A real shame. Maybe, maybe we'll go beyond this game one day... never say never, right?
It's not like there can't be a good Suikoden without him, as V proves quite handily.
I liked Suikoden III a lot despite its shortcomings. Some of the blandness in the dungeon design I just chalked up to it being the first entry in 3D. Still, the plot and characters (and the interesting twist they had on the villain) made up for any shortcomings.
I disagree about the music. I thought it fit the world of Suikoden III quite a bit, very rhythmic and percussion driven. One of my favorites, Abandonment, reminds me a lot of Tubular Bells. Its easily the most interesting thing in the dungeon its used in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6m7DMi6Dck&index=57&list=PLZphL4gPXFCD620LgxabQLxQauvtxA0a9
I disagree about the music. I thought it fit the world of Suikoden III quite a bit, very rhythmic and percussion driven. One of my favorites, Abandonment, reminds me a lot of Tubular Bells. Its easily the most interesting thing in the dungeon its used in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6m7DMi6Dck&index=57&list=PLZphL4gPXFCD620LgxabQLxQauvtxA0a9
As someone who never played this series and being tempted to since quite a time now, where should I start? Does the story follows as the number goes, or it's not related like Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest? How many hours required to complete a playthrough on average?
Yeah I know it's funny considering my user name, but I actually discovered years after picking it that it was related to a video game.
Yeah I know it's funny considering my user name, but I actually discovered years after picking it that it was related to a video game.
mindatlarge
Member
This thread has reminded me that I have a very old save on my original PS2 for this game, I need to get back and finally finish it!
I've played to completion Suikoden I and II, probably halfway through III, and the rest of the series is pretty foreign to me. But even so, playing through the first two and what I remember of the third, this series ranks up there with my most memorable RPG series.
I've played to completion Suikoden I and II, probably halfway through III, and the rest of the series is pretty foreign to me. But even so, playing through the first two and what I remember of the third, this series ranks up there with my most memorable RPG series.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
There's two ways you can start, chronological or release order. Like with Star Wars, most people will say release is better, so I - II - III - IV - V.
IV is skippable, by the way. It's so far back in the timeline that it does not matter to the overall story, and is also widely considered the worst in the series. It's not a terrible game, it's just not a very good one. The map traversal is like Wind Waker if it was even slower and more tedious, the story meanders quite a bit, and there's a comparative lack of memorable villains (although there are some). It does have its merits, though. I love the soundtrack, character design, setting, and spinoff that it got (Suikoden Tactics). It is not, however, a good representative of the series as a whole.
Chronologically, the games go IV - V - I - II - III. This is my preferred order only because I feel V sets up some things from later games surprisingly well, like the recurring characters of Lorelai, Georg, and Killey, the mysterious Sindar civilization and its ruins that are littered throughout the entire world, and offhand mentions of the Scarlet Moon Empire that I takes place in. V is also a very strong game on its own that will leave a positive first impression. That's just my mega lore nerd talking, though. Release order has the benefit of watching the games evolve from a mechanical standpoint.
Suikoden 3 is my favorite. I enjoyed the multiple protagonist and how you see their stories before the big part of the story starts after you finished their stories. Unfortunately, last part of the game felt rushed for me.
I would like to see a new Suikoden that takes place years after 3 but that's never going to happen.
I would like to see a new Suikoden that takes place years after 3 but that's never going to happen.
Okay, thanks for the heads up. I think I will go the release date road, I fear if I do the chrono one, mechanical/graphical evolution could do more harm than good.
Ultimately, are these games easily findable and/or affordable on online resellers?
The soundtrack for the game is really weak, apart from having silence or even subpar music during key moments its just lacks any direction.
having said that, their are a few stand-out tracks. Including the staff roll theme, apart from the ones mentioned already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q177e4ew3eM
having said that, their are a few stand-out tracks. Including the staff roll theme, apart from the ones mentioned already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q177e4ew3eM
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
The first four are all relatively cheap on PSN, although III is only playable on PS3 right now. V is hard to find, confined to PS2, and unfortunately also very expensive.
BurritoBushido
Member
2 > 3 > 1 > everything else
The
reveal about blew my damn mind. One of the greatest payoffs for a series fan in video games.
The
Luc
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Like the Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles spinoff, but with Suikoden? I'd take that over the shitty DS or PSP games they gave us.
5's world building was even better, by far my favorite in the series
Recruiting Futch and Bright and having them be OP as fuck was pretty up there too.
I think the intro is one of the best intro i ever saw any JPRG. (same level as Wild Arms for me)
After 2 this is my favorite. I remember it was also one of the most challenging suikoden game. Some stars were pretty hard to get. I also really like the skill system, you could create some really nice combo.
After 2 this is my favorite. I remember it was also one of the most challenging suikoden game. Some stars were pretty hard to get. I also really like the skill system, you could create some really nice combo.
Suikoden + Waifus = success.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
I just remembered something.
The Tiamat Omega boss fight music from Granblue Fantasy is awesome in the same vein as the anime opening music from Suikoden​ 3.
And I was also thinking Granblue itself kinda scratches some of the same itches as Suikoden with a huge cast of characters with varying levels of backstory and intertwining factions and everything. Even if it's a gacha game.
Here's that Tiamat track:
https://youtu.be/TGnUBjbd32Y
The Tiamat Omega boss fight music from Granblue Fantasy is awesome in the same vein as the anime opening music from Suikoden​ 3.
And I was also thinking Granblue itself kinda scratches some of the same itches as Suikoden with a huge cast of characters with varying levels of backstory and intertwining factions and everything. Even if it's a gacha game.
Here's that Tiamat track:
https://youtu.be/TGnUBjbd32Y
reaganator
Banned
I forgot to mention the glorious Suikoden 3 opening.... :O