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[00_Zer0]

Not trashing on console lovers here. I love console gaming, but exclusives from Sony and MS are few and far between now that they are both on the PC band wagon. In 2022 the mid gen refresh doesn't make sense to me and my spending habbits.

I played the wait game for PS4 and XBox One refreshes last gen, but never again. I will stick to my lowly, dreadfully underpowered Nintendo consoles, and PC gaming from here on out.

If I would have bought into the PS5 and XBox ecosystem again from the beginning of this gen, then also upgraded to the refresh models I would have wasted so much money. I will use the same money to buy more Switch games, the next Nintendo console, upgrade my current PC or start a new PC build.

 

[DaGwaphics]

They would be gargantuan idiots to drop it. I would have 0 reason to continue using consoles and not just going to ox at that point or dropping new systems altogether

It is what it is, physical media already lost this war, it just hasn't completely died yet.

@ 00_Zer0 if a new Xbox/PS released tomorrow and you'd bought the previous versions you'd be able to sell the systems you have for nearly what you paid for them.

 

[wipeout364]

I am fine with upgrades but I think it’s a poor business decision to do this before they have stabilized their supply chain and availability. I have never seen a PS5 or Series X on a store shelf since launch. I have my consoles only because I put my name on wait lists.

 

[playsaves3]

It is what it is, physical media already lost this war, it just hasn't completely died yet.

@ 00_Zer0 if a new Xbox/PS released tomorrow and you'd bought the previous versions you'd be able to sell the systems you have for nearly what you paid for them.

I just don’t see a valid reason to not continue to doing the 1 is digital the other physical and have the detachable disc drive for digital (if you want make it expensive on the detachable to recoup outage the cost)

 

[00_Zer0]

It is what it is, physical media already lost this war, it just hasn't completely died yet.

@ 00_Zer0 if a new Xbox/PS released tomorrow and you'd bought the previous versions you'd be able to sell the systems you have for nearly what you paid for them.

I buy physical and digital on Switch and used to have some physical PS4 games, but sold those.I also sold my PS4 Pro and Series X and I'm not looking back. I am content with Switch for exclusives/physical/digital games and PC for digital games. I can also sell physical Switch games or PC parts to keep buying into the Ninendo and PC ecosystem and still get the benefit of owning MS and Sony games on my still capable PC. Basically my PC from 2019 is my console(hooked up directly to my living room TV), and it still serves me well to this day.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

??? What market are you in?

This has never been the case in the US, we are nowhere near that yet. And it’s been 2 years.

Pennsylvania, my local GameStop has had walk-in stock (albeit in bundles) available for weeks now.

 

[greenpower22]

And the tech is there in 2024 with rdna 4 and zen 5

But at what price?

 

[playsaves3]

But at what price?

500-600$ I never said they need to use the top end versions of the tech even using the low end versions would be a large jump

 

[DaGwaphics]

I just don’t see a valid reason to not continue to doing the 1 is digital the other physical and have the detachable disc drive for digital (if you want make it expensive on the detachable to recoup outage the cost)

The valid reason would be that the console makers and publishers both benefit financially from having everything limited to digital (or at least being setup to be as discouraging to physical as possible). I didn't say there was a benefit for consumers. Just that consumers have basically already accepted the move for the most part (myself included) making it only a matter of time.

 

[Days like these...]

Fingers crossed the new PS5 is less comparable in size to a Kaiju.

This is the reason I don't own one.

 

[reezoo]

We still have most of the games cross gen, why we need mid life upgrade when games have not taken advantage of current hardware?

Also, We are basically going into 3 year console cycle with last two versions of hardware supported for any new game.

 

[phil_t98]

In all honesty are we seeing the full power of the ps5 and the series X be used yet? Most games are still being held back by last gen still getting versions of most games.

 

[SentientStone]

Give me that 500 million limited edition PS5 Pro please, thank you.

 

[playsaves3]

The valid reason would be that the console makers and publishers both benefit financially from having everything limited to digital (or at least being setup to be as discouraging to physical as possible). I didn't say there was a benefit for consumers. Just that consumers have basically already accepted the move for the most part (myself included) making it only a matter of time.

I may phase out of gaming then I his really sucks to hear

 

[DaGwaphics]

I may phase out of gaming then I his really sucks to hear

Grab a sign and head to a street corner fast, it's not too late.

Seriously, you'll probably be good for this gen. But next-gen on I suspect there will start to be more games that release digital only, including AAA efforts etc. We are seeing a lot more digital only AA releases as it stands already, or cases where the physical edition is a limited run or special edition.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I am starting to see more and more PS5s in the wild sitting on shelves but nothing like the Series X


These things could drop tomorrow and I would gladly buy both and keep playing my current games

Give me Hell Let Loose on my PS5 Pro 4k 120fps

Really? I’ve only ever seen an x once and never a ps5 on a shelf. A couple times online for both though

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

When are we expecting 3 nm to go into full production?

 

[playsaves3]

Grab a sign and head to a street corner fast, it's not too late.

Seriously, you'll probably be good for this gen. But next-gen on I suspect there will start to be more games that release digital only, including AAA efforts etc. We are seeing a lot more digital only AA releases as it stands already, or cases where the physical edition is a limited run or special edition.

Please tell me the ps5 pro if it happens won’t be digital only

 

[FeralEcho]

Seriously, I'm now convinced that some people don't know the difference between an official announcement of something happening soon and a rumor of something that likely won't happen until a couple of years from now.

I know it's a rumor.Doesn't change what I said.Cross gen is still going strong well into 2023.And unless we start to see more game announcements that take advantage of these machines just the idea of them investing in new hardware when the ones they released had barely any developers working the hardware to its potential is insulting to anyone who paid money for these consoles.While I thoroughly enjoy both my PS5 and Series S and appreciate the higher framerates in cross gen games, outside of a couple PS5 games like Demon's Souls and R&C that trully give a feeling of awe I don't feel like I left last generation behind as I did with any of my previous console purchases so it's disgusting there even is an idea of this when this generation is in the state it's in but hey that's just my opinion.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Please tell me the ps5 pro if it happens won’t be digital only

My magic eight ball doesn't have a disk drive / no disk drive answer. Your guess is as good as mine.

If the PS5 slim doesn't have a disk option, you might see the Pro not have one either. With both being compatible with an add-on drive. Does make me wonder if they go that way, will they include a bay in the designs that a slim (laptop style) drive could fit in (hidden behind a cover of course)? Or would they just go with a usb drive? Probably USB.

 

[vivftp]

I know it's a rumor.Doesn't change what I said.Cross gen is still going strong well into 2023.And unless we start to see more game announcements that take advantage of these machines just the idea of them investing in new hardware when the ones they released had barely any developers working the hardware to its potential is insulting to anyone who paid money for these consoles.While I thoroughly enjoy both my PS5 and Series S and appreciate the higher framerates in cross gen games, outside of a couple PS5 games like Demon's Souls and R&C that trully give a feeling of awe I don't feel like I left last generation behind as I did with any of my previous console purchases so it's disgusting there even is an idea of this when this generation is in the state it's in but hey that's just my opinion.

It's not the rumor part that I'm talking about. It's the fact that even if this is true, this isn't something that will hit the market for probably 2 years. Things will be VERY different in 2 years. You can't use the current market conditions to judge something that likely won't come for 2 years. That's why comments like yours make me facepalm.

New hardware isn't just developed in a couple of months then it hits the stores. New hardware is developed many years in advance, and assuming the rumor is true, this is part of that process to give devs a chance to work on and prep games for this new hardware. Shit like this (if it's real) gives us a peak behind the curtain to get a small sense of the inner workings of this huge thing called the video game industry. We have to remember to keep this information in the proper context, otherwise we get people bitching and moaning that cross-gen games are still a thing today so why are they bothering with mid-gen refreshes? It makes all of us look like idiots who don't know how to rationally think about and contextualize this snipped of information we've been fed.

Let me put it more plainly. If we do get mid-gen refreshes in late 2024, then by then the supply shortages will be a thing of the past, cross-gen will be long forgotten and we'll be drowning in games that make great use of the current gen consoles. Again, things will be VERY different by then.

 

[vivftp]

Please tell me the ps5 pro if it happens won’t be digital only

If Tom Hendersons rumor about a revision next September is anything to go by, I would expect that all future PlayStation consoles will be disc-less, and will allow for a detachable disc drive accessory to be connected via USB C. That would include any Pro models that might come.

 

[Wooxsvan]

I don't see the point at this stage.
I was watching MVG and he has developed for both PS5 and XSXS. He was saying both consoles have only just scratched the surface so far with what they are capable of.
On PS5 no games have taken advantage of the SSD or the Primitive Shaders, while nothing yet on XSXS uses Mesh Shaders, Sampler Feedback Streaming, Velocity Architecture or Direct ML.
Just adding some more Compute Units or faster frequency is just lazy.

eh, thinking of it from a publisher standpoint, the people who fund the games and want a proper return, developing for specific tools isnt the best way to make money, so there isnt a great incentive yet. when the PC direct storage architecture is more widespread in a couple years... hopefully

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

This is the reason I don't own one.

That's kind of a dumb reason to not own one.

 

[fuck_diggity_cunt_ingdon]

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

It's not the rumor part that I'm talking about. It's the fact that even if this is true, this isn't something that will hit the market for probably 2 years. Things will be VERY different in 2 years. You can't use the current market conditions to judge something that likely won't come for 2 years. That's why comments like yours make me facepalm.

New hardware isn't just developed in a couple of months then it hits the stores. New hardware is developed many years in advance, and assuming the rumor is true, this is part of that process to give devs a chance to work on and prep games for this new hardware. Shit like this (if it's real) gives us a peak behind the curtain to get a small sense of the inner workings of this huge thing called the video game industry. We have to remember to keep this information in the proper context, otherwise we get people bitching and moaning that cross-gen games are still a thing today so why are they bothering with mid-gen refreshes? It makes all of us look like idiots who don't know how to rationally think about and contextualize this snipped of information we've been fed.

Let me put it more plainly. If we do get mid-gen refreshes in late 2024, then by then the supply shortages will be a thing of the past, cross-gen will be long forgotten and we'll be drowning in games that make great use of the current gen consoles. Again, things will be VERY different by then.

Thing too is Sony/MS can't sit and wait on current shortages when designing these consoles as like you mentioned this process takes years and when these things were on the drawing board we hadn't even entered this shortage phase.

I too feel that they simply wont hit the newly devised Nvidia "unlaunch" button because devs are behind because we are still seeing effects of what COVID had

When Ybarra was still with Xbox when people would ask him has the process started for the next Xbox he would always answer "That process starts before the current box even launches"

I do believe we are getting these mid gen upgrades and will continue to do so unless people stop buying them no matter if we are playing cross gen games or not

 

[nashman]

I have no idea about MS's plans, but Sony are likely going to be shipping 23 million PS5's on the low end and 30.5 million PS5's on the high end next FY, based on the data/rumors we have. If these mid-gen refreshes occur they likely won't be until 2024 and by then the supply shortages will be a distant memory.



The mid-gen refreshes last gen coincided with the rise of 4K TVs, but they weren't the sole reason for them. Sony themselves said that the PS4 Pro was meant to offer their console gamers a more powerful solution to try and capture some of that market that might jump to PC gaming because they wanted more than what the base console could offer. If a mid-gen refresh happens again then that could be the sole reason for it, and it'd be perfectly justifiable.

There will always be a segment of the market willing to pay more for better performance and all the bells and whistles. If they can retain some of that market via a Pro console then why not.




Remember that these rumors are about something that likely won't happen for a couple of years. You can't use the current state of things to judge the logic behind something that won't happen until years from now. By then supply shortages won't be a thing anymore, cross gen will be dead and there will be tons of games taking full advantage of these consoles.

Yep, add to that that a PS5 Pro would be capable of way more 120fps games. Sony would market that to help sell their 120 fps capable TVs. The worry of people jumpimg to PC at the time of the Pro release will be even greater as PCs are even furthering the gap now let alone in 2024. PSVR2 would be amazing with the added power too. Lots of reasons why PS5 Pro will happen.

 

[Moses85]

Where can I preorder!

 

[kapshin]

Microsoft midgen refresh will be a VR variant.

I'll bet my account in it.

Why do you hate NeoGAF?

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Yep, add to that that a PS5 Pro would be capable of way more 120fps games. Sony would market that to help sell their 120 fps capable TVs. The worry of people jumpimg to PC at the time of the Pro release will be even greater as PCs are even furthering the gap now let alone in 2024. PSVR2 would be amazing with the added power too. Lots of reasons why PS5 Pro will hhappen

Don't forget Sony's new gaming monitors.

But I don't think a Pro will happen. If anything we will have a fully BC PS6 in 4 years.

 

[hoplie]

It’s the cpu that’s weak not the gpu

From last gen to current gen CPU made a huge step. Compared to the fastest currently available CPUs the ~Zen2 CPUs are not that bad (i would guess factor 2).
But if you compare the GPU in current gen with fastest currently available GPUs you get about factor 8.
Why do you think CPU performance is a bigger problem than GPU performance in current gen?

 

[Days like these...]

That's kind of a dumb reason to not own one.

Says you

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

And i will get it day one, just like the PS4 PRO.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Focus on making a slim version of the PS5. The Xbox Series X honestly doesn't need a revision.

 

[Fart Knight]

I bougt them last gen but doubt Ill do it this time a round.

 

[PeteBull]

When are we expecting 3 nm to go into full production?

nvidias 4090 and other 40xx series cards are already on custom 4nm node, so 3nm node shouldnt be that far from now anyways, max 2 years

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I don’t think this true, but it’s idiotic if legitimate. We are still getting cross generation games with no signs of it slowing down, the market will be separated, the consoles are still not being fully utilized and they are still major shortages. I can see it now. We finally rectified the dreaded console shortage, but here’s a new expensive upgrade for you to buy to confuse even more people, give developers more headaches and to reignite the scalper’s market.

 

[01011001]

Focus on making a slim version of the PS5. The Xbox Series X honestly doesn't need a revision.

nah the Series X needs a revision! we finally need a truly 1:1 cube shaped console. the GameCube was a rectangular cuboid! WE NEED A REAL CUBE!

 

[DaGwaphics]

nah the Series X needs a revision! we finally need a truly 1:1 cube shaped console. the GameCube was a rectangular cuboid! WE NEED A REAL CUBE!

While I agree that the XSX is fine the way it is and doesn't need a refresh as much as PS5, I still think we'll get one. Just because if you can shrink the size and weight you can save money.

 

[TheRedRiders]

I can't be the only one on here who has not given a shit about the PS5's size nor had any problems with it.

Also I have a bridge to sell anyone who thinks a Pro variant will be slimmer lol

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

When are we expecting 3 nm to go into full production?

nvidias 4090 and other 40xx series cards are already on custom 4nm node, so 3nm node shouldnt be that far from now anyways, max 2 years

I think I remember reading Samsung is already making them and TSMC was supposed to start any time to be in the Iphone next year

 

[scydrex]

this is crazy. we're 2 years into the gen, its barely started and they're releasing mid gen in probably 18 months.

PS4 released around nov 2013 and PS4 Slim and Pro after mid 2016... so it's not crazy.

 

[MikeM]

I already went next gen. RIP 30fps.

 

[mrBarrelNut]

When are we expecting 3 nm to go into full production?

Intel's "Intel 3" should go into volume production in 2H/2023.

 

[Kazekage1981]

i will be happy if the pro consoles can:

-do proper ray tracing without tanking performance
-hit 4K at 120fps *with* ray tracing
-have dlss 2.2 type feature with machine learning cores
-do 8k 30fps checkerboarding
-Wifi6E
-completely different physical media storage. Tired of optical disks.
-USB 4.0, ideally USB 4.0 version 2.0

 

[Frank Horrigan]

Could never argue with that. the X1X showed they are willing to do a complete rewrite on their mid-gen system if they feel the need, even if it requires extra work on their end to keep the previously released software running. Honestly, with AMD moving to chiplets you might see MS rewrite all of the systems. I can see where the chiplet approach could be a good fit for manufacturing multiple consoles. XSS = 1GPU chiplet w/modest clocks, XSX = 2 GPU chiplets w/higher clocks, XS Super X Elite = 3/4 gpu chiplets at highest clocks.

Chiplets would help Microsoft's vision of 'no more gens' a lot. I'll be keeping an eye on this one, thanks for the info.

They could always just revamp WMR. Maybe go with a wireless headset but forget the local play capabilities, utilize just enough hardware to facilitate the stream. Hopefully with an ad-hoc dongle so that users wouldn't need to worry about setting up an additional router and that kind of thing. You can get 5Gbps out of the USB 3.2 gen 1 ports which should allow them to get a decent result (that's what 600Mbps or something like that) and would allow support for existing consoles and older PCs (with bonus points for making the dongle support faster speeds if available, make it a gen 2 or gen 2x2 device that can fall back). The new mid-gen system would support the faster USB. This type of thing could work with a Meta or Valve partnership as well, if that's the way they went.

Having more than one headset or one that doesn't compete with the best headsets at the time, would be financial loss to Microsoft for no gain. Either they go all in with a new console designed for VR, or they half-arse it and go with allowing 3rd party devices on their consoles. Would those 3rd party device manufacturers be happy allowing a headset on a different platform if it offers a poor-quality user experience? They wouldn't. Either way, Microsoft needs a console that can do VR out of the box

It was nice knowing you bud.

Don't worry about me.

Do you want to vomit puke everywhere?

http://[URL]https://www.engadget.com/microsoft-hololens-fails-us-army-tests-135010970.html

[/URL]

R&D paid for by the American tax payer.

Why on earth would they need a different headset for the Series S? The games would just run with lower fidelity.

Edit: A VR headset is just a display device, the games run on the console.

You couldnt put a headset on the S that looks and plays like shit, it would make the differences between the S and X too obvious and thus render the S an obsolete console. Ms will launch a new console, with rejiggered internals and put VR on that console as a selling point. You then have three tiers of xbox; Series S, Cheap streaming for people who mainly use it for media and a bit of gaming, Series X Medium tier for those who want to play current gen games locally and Series VR Enthusiast/hardcore tier, which would allow the best, most cutting edge place to play console games, with the option of Vr for the enthusiast

Why do you hate NeoGAF?

It's not hate, I just love being right

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I already went next gen. RIP 30fps.

Nice space heater.

 

[MikeM]

.

 

[MikeM]

Nice space heater.

 

[BreakOut]

I would get a PS5 pro. My hope would be that the upgrade is pretty damn significant though. The economy is trash and we know the cost is going to be high. So if the difference isn’t pretty fucking staggering, I think it would be something to just wait for until next GEN. Most likely the mid generation refresh will be rolled out because of ray tracing and 8K anyway.