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[DiscoJer]

The team now needs to confirm their observations with further experiments

Then they should have sent out a press release after they've confirmed it by doing further experiments..

There's a saying, or there used to be, that extraordinary claims required extraordinary evidence. Now the saying seems to be "extraordinary claims require a press release put out immediately"

Just yesterday I was reading a story with a similarly big deal, solving a problem that has plagued quantum physics since there was quantum physics

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...roved-real-in-first-loophole-free-experiment/

But then you get down to the article, the experiment only had 245 measurements. I don't think that's nearly enough in something like this.

 

[Azulsky]

Then they should have sent out a press release after they've confirmed it by doing further experiments..

There's a saying, or there used to be, that extraordinary claims required extraordinary evidence. Now the saying seems to be "extraordinary claims require a press release put out immediately"

Just yesterday I was reading a story with a similarly big deal, solving a problem that has plagued quantum physics since there was quantum physics

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...roved-real-in-first-loophole-free-experiment/

But then you get down to the article, the experiment only had 245 measurements. I don't think that's nearly enough in something like this.

The marketing people need to keep their jobs too. They build the hype that gets the $$$ for the next big bang machines.

 

[Aikidoka]

The only bummer about being alive to see these advances in physics is the very real possibility that the new findings will soon literally be incomprehensible to classical thinking and only expressable mathematically or in metaphor.

For curious laymen I mean.

Physics has been there since 1900

 

[Harmen]

Then they should have sent out a press release after they've confirmed it by doing further experiments..

There's a saying, or there used to be, that extraordinary claims required extraordinary evidence. Now the saying seems to be "extraordinary claims require a press release put out immediately"

Just yesterday I was reading a story with a similarly big deal, solving a problem that has plagued quantum physics since there was quantum physics

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...roved-real-in-first-loophole-free-experiment/

But then you get down to the article, the experiment only had 245 measurements. I don't think that's nearly enough in something like this.

They probably need additional funding to be able to confirm their results. And I think there is nothing wrong with that, as long as it is clear these are somewhat preliminary results.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Gauna are headed to Earth as we speak.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Nothing like self-renewing job security.

Particle physics is such a racket

http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1452#comic

 

[Ether_Snake]

Would be funny if the goal of the simulation is for us to find out it's a simulation. Once we do the simulation is terminated. Game Over.

So the universe is Metal Gear. Makes sense.

I'm guessing the LHC will soon discover that Zero and Big Boss are behind the reason we all exist.

 

[Any Questions]

Thank you OP. Love these type of stories.

 

[Kaako]

Them particles can defy deez nutz!
Interesting read, for real though. Thanks for sharing.

 

[CTLance]

[img.]http://smbc-comics.com/comics/20090309.gif[/img]
http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1452#comic

There's also the self-reinforcing circle of stupidity.

(src)

 

[Obscura]

I think the most terrifying thing would be finding out we're living in a simulation.

Why would that be terrifying? The only negative I see from learning we are a simulation is knowing we've figured out what reality is which would make life a little less exciting. Unless the simulation is shut down upon discovery it wouldn't change much or anything about our lives. The religious could easily spin it to suit their beliefs and they are the only people who come to mind who would be genuinely affected.

 

[HariKari]

Curious to see if they ever find anything that contradicts the predicted heat death of the universe.

 

[twobear]

Then they should have sent out a press release after they've confirmed it by doing further experiments..

There's a saying, or there used to be, that extraordinary claims required extraordinary evidence. Now the saying seems to be "extraordinary claims require a press release put out immediately"

Just yesterday I was reading a story with a similarly big deal, solving a problem that has plagued quantum physics since there was quantum physics

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...roved-real-in-first-loophole-free-experiment/

But then you get down to the article, the experiment only had 245 measurements. I don't think that's nearly enough in something like this.

They do need to do more experiments (they always do), but in fact it would be more surprising at this point if their experiment didn't confirm the quantum weirdness than if it did.

 

[Synless]

1. this is awesome

2. still worried about the cold-dark theory more or less confirmed

3. i know #2 doesn't relate to #1 or this thread but where else are we gonna lament that this is all for naught

What is the cold-dark theory?

 

[PantherLotus]

What is the cold-dark theory?

that everything will go cold and dark over a trillion years and then there will be no universe left to mourn

(heat death)

(sorry, forgot the term earlier)

 

[Aurongel]

Forcing us to rethink the fundamental facets of physics is the reason the LHC was built.

Reading through the article now, it's fairly well written given the subject matter.

 

[BigBoss]

So the universe is Metal Gear. Makes sense.

I'm guessing the LHC will soon discover that Zero and Big Boss are behind the reason we all exist.

This better not be an MGSV spoiler.

 

[relaxor]

We reached that point about 100 years ago.

Yep.

Reading through the article now, it's fairly well written given the subject matter.

I agree. It looks like there are many well written articles on sciencealert.com

 

[Foffy]

The hide and seek game of the universe continues.

 

[gaugebozo]

Yep.



I agree. It looks like there are many well written articles on sciencealert.com

Mmmm... It seems the article is a copy and paste of the press release, (suspiciously on a site called eurekalert) but with some information taken out http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-08/uom-ess082615.php
Unfortunately, I couldn't even read the paper because even though the article says it's online, their press release says it won't be till the 31st.

 

[Trouble]

Sub-atomic particle physics was a mistake.




But seriously, this kind of unexpected result is exactly why we need to do crazy stuff like the LHC.

 

[B-Dex]

I swear the LHC has new amazing science breakthroughs every other month now. Hard to take it all seriously.

 

[cebri.one]

 

[jonnyp]

1. this is awesome

2. still worried about the cold-dark theory more or less confirmed

3. i know #2 doesn't relate to #1 or this thread but where else are we gonna lament that this is all for naught

Uhm why are you worried?

 

[Log4Girlz]

They don't even know how magnets work. F you science.

 

[hateradio]

I find it interesting that our size is just about "right" to investigate these things at a particular level.

Meaning, if we were a million times smaller, would it be easier or harder to investigate particles. If we were a million times bigger, would it be harder?

 

[Log4Girlz]

I find it interesting that our size is just about "right" to investigate these things at a particular level.

Meaning, if we were a million times smaller, would it be easier or harder to investigate particles. If we were a million times bigger, would it be harder?

We can't be millions of times smaller or larger. Not possible. Also we are clearly the wrong size to travel dimensions and have god-like powers.

 

[peakish]

I'm behind on my statistical analysis, but judging from the paper their statistic uncertainty is pretty large and not the current standard sigma-5 which denotes a "certified" result. Maybe I'm misreading it, though. Either way I hope they'll get more time to study the phenomena to make sure which way, but I've seen uncertain results turn out to be nothing quite a few times now. There's also been some discussion in the academic community, in the wake of both the not-faster-than-light and the not-gravitational-waves results, to strengthen the requirements for new results even further.

 

[Kuldar]

Interesting, but we will have to wait few years for any meaningfull scientifical publications about it.

It will be a great news if it leads to the need of a new theories and not just a correction of the (boring) current ones.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

Force Awakens marketing?

 

[LoveCake]

I think maybe it is more to do with we are getting closer & closer to the actual fundamental 'things' that form the final 'stuff' that is matter, at each level things appear to be made of identical 'stuff' but when you look closer there are differences & so it goes on.

It could well be to do with observing or measuring that causes the differences, like in the Double Slit Experiment

 

[hateradio]

We can't be millions of times smaller or larger. Not possible. Also we are clearly the wrong size to travel dimensions and have god-like powers.

Millions could be substituted by some parameter.

I'm sure the might be a being out there that is million times larger than a human.

5.8 feet * 1,000,000 = 5.8 million feet or about 1,000 miles (doing math at 2am, so this may be wrong). There could be giant planets with giant beings.

 

[ibyea]

They don't even know how magnets work. F you science.

Actually they can explain magnetism, but the explanation for it has to do with intrinsic spin. Meaning the particles are not actually spinning but when under the effects of magnetic force, they act like they are spinning. These spins come out of the Dirac equation and commutation relations (whether x*y = y*x basically), it's really hard to explain layman style because of the abstractness.

Then the electron structure of each element decide whether the material is ferromagnetic (like your fridge magnet), diamagnetic, or paramagnetic (the last two becoming magnetic only as long as they are under magnetic fields).

 

[Austriacus]

Millions could be substituted by some parameter.

I'm sure the might be a being out there that is million times larger than a human.

5.8 feet * 1,000,000 = 5.8 million feet or about 1,000 miles (doing math at 2am, so this may be wrong). There could be giant planets with giant beings.

If i remember correctly such huge beings are not possible based on the whole idea of an ecosystem created to support them (energy needed)

Maybe im wrong and someone who knows better can explain it.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Millions could be substituted by some parameter.

I'm sure the might be a being out there that is million times larger than a human.

5.8 feet * 1,000,000 = 5.8 million feet or about 1,000 miles (doing math at 2am, so this may be wrong). There could be giant planets with giant beings.

A being a million times larger than a human would not resemble humans in any meaningful capacity, nor one a million times smaller. If there was a being the size of a planet it may or may not be able to inquire into the nature of things in the same way we do, after all we are many billions of times larger than the things we are studying, and use a series of tools which build smaller tools which build smaller tools to get down to the level where we can study the smallest units of existence.

 

[gaugebozo]

OK, paper working for some reason now, after reading it, it seems like an interesting result but the statistics are just not there. It's a 2.1 sigma result meaning there's about a 5% chance that the result is just a statistical fluctuation. Results like this come and go all the time. It would be really cool if it sticks though. Leptons acting alike just sort of makes sense, and the sort of theory necessary to lead to this result but still reproduce all of the rest of SM physics we already know about would be very interesting.

 

[Dennis]

OK, paper working for some reason now, after reading it, it seems like an interesting result but the statistics are just not there. It's a 2.1 sigma result meaning there's about a 5% chance that the result is just a statistical fluctuation. Results like this come and go all the time. It would be really cool if it sticks though. Leptons acting alike just sort of makes sense, and the sort of theory necessary to lead to this result but still reproduce all of the rest of SM physics we already know about would be very interesting.

So......there is a 95% chance it NOT just a statistical fluctuation.

I feel like this discovery will probably lead to quantum warp drives.

 

[Simon Belmont]

So......there is a 95% chance it NOT just a statistical fluctuation.

I feel like this discovery will probably lead to quantum warp drives.

Sure, but they do a lot of experiments and collect huge amounts of data there. A 5% chance of it being wrong is a lot better odds than it sounds.

 

[gaugebozo]

Sure, but they do a lot of experiments and collect huge amounts of data there. A 5% chance of it being wrong is a lot better odds than it sounds.

Exactly. I've seen a number of two sigmas (and even a three sigma!) not being valid in my relatively short career.

 

[cntr]

I'll post something on what this means, but first:

Millions could be substituted by some parameter.

I'm sure the might be a being out there that is million times larger than a human.

5.8 feet * 1,000,000 = 5.8 million feet or about 1,000 miles (doing math at 2am, so this may be wrong). There could be giant planets with giant beings.

Alright, so, how do you calculate area? Say, of a square with 10 km sides.

(10 km)^2 = 100 sq km.

Now if you extend that to a cube, it has 6 sides, and a total area of 600 sq km.

How do you calculate volume (which in turn affects weight) of this cube?

(10 km)^3 = 1000 cu km

You can very roughly approximate human density as 1 kg per liter. 1 cubic meter is equal to 1000 liters.

That's 1000000000000000 liters. 1000000000000000 kg. 2204620000000000 pounds.

Let's do it again.

We'll again approximate as a cube. They won't be shaped like a cube, sure, but the calculation should give you a sense of the sheer magnitude we're dealing with here.

1000 miles = 1609 km

(1609 km)^2 = 2588881 sq km (for square)

2588881 sq km * 6 = 15533286 sq km (for cube)

(1609 km)^3 = 4165509529 cu km

4165509530000000000000 liters, and 4165509530000000000000 kg. 9183380000000000000000 pounds.

I think you know that's a big number.

They call this the square-cube law, the fact that volume (and thus weight) increases much faster than area (derived from physical area). This is useful to know in things from engineering to biology, and is the reason we can't build super large things.

 

[twobear]

OK, paper working for some reason now, after reading it, it seems like an interesting result but the statistics are just not there. It's a 2.1 sigma result meaning there's about a 5% chance that the result is just a statistical fluctuation. Results like this come and go all the time. It would be really cool if it sticks though. Leptons acting alike just sort of makes sense, and the sort of theory necessary to lead to this result but still reproduce all of the rest of SM physics we already know about would be very interesting.

They were saying that similar results from other experiments was boosting their confidence somewhat.

But yeah, it's definitely 'wait and see' at the moment. As I recall there was a 2 sigma result from the LHC a couple of years ago that seemed to point to a nonstandard Higgs that turned out to just be nothing.

 

[cntr]

Anyway, as for quantum physics:

First of all, the Standard Model of quantum physics has been wrong ever since it was invented. We've known this. It, for example, says that gravity doesn't exist, and is incompatible with General Relativity of Einstein fame. Both the Standard Model and General Relativity are approximations, and we're looking for better ones.

For this specific experiment:

You know what an electron is, but electrons actually have two other variants, the muon and tau. You could replace an electron with a muon or a tau in an atom and it would work -- except for one thing: they're unstable, and decay incredibly fast. Like, microseconds.

The discovery here is that the decay time for these two particles is different from what the Standard Model would predict.

So the neat thing here is not the "physics has been contradicted!" clickbait, but more of "hey, we can start looking here".

 

[Battersea Power Station]

So the neat thing here is not the "physics has been contradicted!" clickbait, but more of "hey, we can start looking here".

The title says our model has been contradicted, not physics. Physics usually implies the rules of the universe, so by definition they can't be contradicted. Our model is just an approximate description of those rules.

And secondly, if these results mean there's an unexpected force at play, like quantum gravity, then it is a huge deal, and it really could reshape how we think about matter-energy interactions in spacetime. I'm not saying that's likely, but it's certainly one exciting possibility.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Sure, but they do a lot of experiments and collect huge amounts of data there. A 5% chance of it being wrong is a lot better odds than it sounds.

X-Com percentages, I got ya.

 

[Dennis]

X-Com percentages, I got ya.

I lol'd.

Then I became enraged.

 

[Javier23]

This better not be an MGSV spoiler.

I really hope so too. What the fuck, dude?

 

[cntr]

The title says our model has been contradicted, not physics. Physics usually implies the rules of the universe, so by definition they can't be contradicted. Our model is just an approximate description of those rules.

Yeah, but most people seem to react as if it was "physics was contradicted!", though usually not with full seriousness. Physics, and most science, are often taught as if the rules defined the universe, rather than being a description thereof, and many people conceptualize it that way.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I really hope so too. What the fuck, dude?

You guys really thought this was an MGS spoiler? Like, wtf, even for MGS that would be going too far.

 

[Szu]

I'm pretty sure Hank Pym warned Scott Lang about this sub-atomic environment.

 

[commedieu]

Only a matter of time until they open up an inter-dimensional portal.

U saw the berenstein bears thread, right?