Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Too many people in a very tight space, but also hearing people falling over and slowing down the flow of the crowd is what caused the pile up.
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Seoul Halloween Crush
- Thread starter Tams
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nkarafo
Member
Also, if you are much taller than most others.
Tams
Member
I think we're in agreement. Though in Japan, as I said, I've only seen the police and other authorities handle it quite well. In big cities they'll even alter the train schedules to funnel to people in certain directions (not just Japan).
Then again, I rarely go out out in Japan, and when I do I opt for the staying out all night and grabbing a Sukiya or something for breakfast on the way home, so I miss all the drunken people going home.
ForAcademicPurposes
Member
I too, look at a moshpit and after careful consideration decide to jump in for TikTok views.
darrylgorn
Member
There need to be more studies that look into the deterministic factors at play in something like this. It reminds me of bridge design and how some can be broken under a very specific set of circumstances.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
People are so fucking stupid, an absolute tragedy that couldve been avoided if human beings would stop and think for 2 fucking seconds when seeing a massive crowd of people, turn the fuck around instead of joining the throng and they just kept going. It's not like it's a concert or football game where crowd management and control is factored into the event, it's bloody winding streets in an urban environment, anyone with half a wit would've got off the subway walked upstairs seen the massive crowds and went nope, back downstairs and get the next train out or at least turned around and left the area
Sybrix
Member
I struggle to understand how this sort of incident can occur.
If there is an obvious overflow of people in a concentrated area, your turn around and go the opposite way however here it seems that 100s and 100s of people kept piling into the same tiny area filling it up to the point people were trampled to the ground and then even more people plied in where they were crushed.
Those videos are horrific, they show layers and layers of people in an alleyway.......... how tf does is it get like that!?
If there is an obvious overflow of people in a concentrated area, your turn around and go the opposite way however here it seems that 100s and 100s of people kept piling into the same tiny area filling it up to the point people were trampled to the ground and then even more people plied in where they were crushed.
Those videos are horrific, they show layers and layers of people in an alleyway.......... how tf does is it get like that!?
nightmare-slain
Member
i understand the thought but you can be crushed in seating areas too. i suppose yeah it's safer but still possible.
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Porcile
Member
Young people in places like Korea and Japan especially in the major cities pretty much grow up in a super conservative group think environment. They aren't good at saying no and turning around, going against the groupthink. FOMO is strong here Especially if they're with their buddies and it's a kind of social event/gathering like this. For most people, as sad as it is, shopping, partying, drinking are one of the only ways they know how to let loose.
Tams
Member
My mum studied it decades ago, but I believe the theory hasn't changed much.
In short; crowds are like a new entity. People not only behave differently than normal in one, but collectively people start to act live one entity. This can lead crowds to do things that no individual in them may even consider doing on their own and it doesn't have to be of benefit to any one person in the crowd, or even the crowd.
This is why you get riots, lynch mobs, and crushes like this.
G-Bus
Banned
This is terrifying.
I remember being downtown Vancouver when Canada won the gold medal in hockey and it was bonkers. Literally sardined in the crowd at times and it made me a little uneasy. Like someone else said you end up going with the flow of people because you can't do much else. Can't imagine fighting it.
I remember being downtown Vancouver when Canada won the gold medal in hockey and it was bonkers. Literally sardined in the crowd at times and it made me a little uneasy. Like someone else said you end up going with the flow of people because you can't do much else. Can't imagine fighting it.
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Tams
Member
Crowd mentality, but also once you're in it, there's really nowhere to go for most people. If you're quite deep in it then going against the flow is fine if it's just you, but if enough people get the same idea, then it turns into chaos very quickly. The best that can happen is that someone is controlling the exits and keeps people moving out in a controlled fashion.
But once the panic sets in, it's just a downward spiral until enough escape or die to relieve the pressure.
Asa
Porcile
mentioned, I don't think the collective mentality of Asian countries helps. It's by no means unique to them; Hillsborough is probably one of the most infamous examples in the West.
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Aggelos
Member
This is moments before disaster strikes. It's clear that it is a matter of minutes (if not seconds) before people are going to get crushed.
And here is an overview of the out-of-control situation.
I think the above videos shed some light on how an incident like this can occur.
Porcile
Member
Go anywhere in Tokyo on a weekend and you'll see on a tiny scale everywhere why this kind of thing can so easily happen at any time. People start queuing for something, and even if it would be quicker and probably just as good to simply back out of the queue and go somewhere else, people stay in the queue to the bitter end lol. Doesn't matter if it's McDonald's or some Michelin star place.
In this case, even though it must have been pretty obvious to anyone who had any basic knowledge about this area the place was going to be absolutely rammed and perhaps better to stay away and go somewhere else, they still went.
In this case, even though it must have been pretty obvious to anyone who had any basic knowledge about this area the place was going to be absolutely rammed and perhaps better to stay away and go somewhere else, they still went.
levyjl1988
Banned
Similar to what happened with Jon Snow in Battle of the Bastards.
vpance
Member
The streets are very cramped in Itaewon. Not ideal at all for large crowds.
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Tams
Member
Well, predictably (and rightly), Japanese police in Tokyo are stepping up edit: had good crowd control (not clear if this was before or after what happened last night).
www3.nhk.or.jp
I won't link it, but there's a livestream of Shibuya Crossing by ANN (Japanese news channel). Kind of inappropriately playing off this tragedy as it isn't for people to 'check how busy it is'. It's all to do with getting that viewership and showing 'how great our authorities are'.
Tokyo police on alert against Halloween crowd crush in Shibuya district | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News
Tokyo police have stepped up measures to prevent a Halloween crowd crush in the bustling Shibuya district, following Saturday's stampede in Seoul that left more than 150 people dead.
I won't link it, but there's a livestream of Shibuya Crossing by ANN (Japanese news channel). Kind of inappropriately playing off this tragedy as it isn't for people to 'check how busy it is'. It's all to do with getting that viewership and showing 'how great our authorities are'.
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synchronicity
Member
This sort of thing has happened quite a few times at large gatherings - concerts etc.
As someone who hates crowds, just watching that *without* knowing the outcome is nightmare fuel to me. I can't imagine.
As someone who hates crowds, just watching that *without* knowing the outcome is nightmare fuel to me. I can't imagine.
Robot Carnival
Member
RIP to all those who lost their lives.
I don't remember when or what occasion, but I've been in something similar where I was basically carried by the flow of the crowd and can't really move l. it definitely triggered some sort of phobia in me. this is like 100 times worse than what I had experienced too.
I think about 29 years ago in Hong Kong, something similar happened at the Lan Keai Fon area. 21 dead from it, and Hong Kong had been enforcing enter restrictions according to the number of people in there during large events/holidays.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lan_Kwai_Fong
I don't remember when or what occasion, but I've been in something similar where I was basically carried by the flow of the crowd and can't really move l. it definitely triggered some sort of phobia in me. this is like 100 times worse than what I had experienced too.
I think about 29 years ago in Hong Kong, something similar happened at the Lan Keai Fon area. 21 dead from it, and Hong Kong had been enforcing enter restrictions according to the number of people in there during large events/holidays.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lan_Kwai_Fong
Stinkbug
Neo Member
True. Initially I'd just seen "stampede", but knowing it was a dense crowd, it's good they didn't use tear gas.
El Pistolero
Banned
I am at a loss for words...Why? Just why would you see such an insane human wave and decide to add to the pile? What a tragedy!
One of the short clips shows dead people, with horrible expressions on their contorted faces, their bodies squeezed like lemons...An image seared into my brain, no doubt.
My heart goes to the families and friends of those who passed away. I can only imagine how scary the last instants must have been...
I have always shunned gatherings, suffering from acute sociophobia, and this has formed another layer of Nope!
One of the short clips shows dead people, with horrible expressions on their contorted faces, their bodies squeezed like lemons...An image seared into my brain, no doubt.
My heart goes to the families and friends of those who passed away. I can only imagine how scary the last instants must have been...
I have always shunned gatherings, suffering from acute sociophobia, and this has formed another layer of Nope!
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Shows the power of group mentality. People continued piling in even when it was obviously overcrowded and dangerous.
Japan had a similar crush many years back.
It's why you now see very strict crowd control in Japan, even at seemingly innocuous events.
Akashi pedestrian bridge accident - Wikipedia
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cripterion
Member
None besides human stupidity.
Aggelos
Member
Seoul Halloween crowd crush - Wikipedia
"The National Police Agency said there were at least 154 deaths, with more fatalities expected. The known deaths consisted of 97 females and 56 males. Four victims were teenagers, 95 people were in their twenties, 32 people in their thirties, nine in their forties, and 13 have yet to be identified. Twenty-six foreigners were among the dead.
At least 133 others were confirmed injured, including 24 in serious condition. The National Fire Agency and Ministry of the Interior and Safety had said that nearly 100 people were injured, with 50 receiving medical attention for cardiac arrests.
By the afternoon of 30 October, about 90 percent of the victims had been identified. The remaining 10 percent (12 bodies) were of local teens or foreign nationals."
PonyStation4
Member
There was no organizer and why would police have to answer? People decided to rush towards 1 spot because they thought someone famous showed up
Tams
Member
Actually, if it turns out they didn't assess the situation properly (which is looking increasingly likely - there's even been an admission of failings), then yes they do.
It's their job to maintain public order, whether that's organised or not.
Just the crowd swaying like that freaks me out.
Porcile
Member
While I agree the sensible decision for people would've been to simply not even attempt to get to the area, it does sound like communication about what was happening at ground level was foggy at best. People who arrived at that time just got sucked into the crowd as soon as they got off the train or the bus, whether they really wanted to be part of it or not. It is one of those freakish events where everything that could have possibly gone wrong did go wrong with tragic consequences.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Crowd is too packed. This is on the police.
Timesquare is packed on New Year's eve but its never this packed.
Timesquare is packed on New Year's eve but its never this packed.
Sybrix
Member
One of the memebers of K-Pop was killed:
news.sky.com
K-Pop singer and actor Lee Jihan, 24, killed in Seoul Halloween crowd crush
Lee Jihan first found fame on South Korean reality show Produce 101, where 101 K-Pop hopefuls competed to win in a boy band and went on to star in the High School drama Today Was Another Nam Hyun Day.
news.sky.com
TheDraconian
Member
Condolences to the families of the deceased.
City logistics should implement more crowd control measures to prevent events like these going forward.
City logistics should implement more crowd control measures to prevent events like these going forward.
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EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
This feels like it could have been avoided. The videos don’t show details.
SafeOrAlone
Banned
And did you guys see the Morbi bridge collapse in India? So many tragedies like this lately. Then there was the recent soccer game, where tear gas was sprayed and people trampled each other.
But RIP to these victims. Tragic.
But RIP to these victims. Tragic.
ResilientBanana
Member
Stampeding seems like such a primitive way to die. Like what the fuck people.
Umbasaborne
Banned
People forget that humans are animals, just as any other creature on this planet. We are just as capable as entering fight or flight mode in large groups and stampeding over eachother, just as other heard animals do when they get panicked. This was sensless, and unneccessary. Who ever organized this needs to rot in prison for the rest of their life. Folks don’t realize that when you’re in fight or flight, your in survival mode, you dont care if others die so long as you live. So take a few thousand people who feel like. Put them a small alleyway, and this is what happens
Alebrije
Member
Individuals are smart, masses are stupid...
Hawking Radiation
Member
WHAT. THE. FUCK !!!!!
That woman is screaming for her life. This is all levels of fucked up.