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[Lastyou1]

I for one are happy that kickstarters received a raw deal, noone should need to kickstart a game that can easily get funding ... if you think preordering a game ( which u can always cancel and get your money back from) is bad this is just crazy .. star citizen kind of crazy.

I am a day 1 Kickstarter backer.

No, what you are saying is a lie.
Shenmue 3 was in the talking since 2000, with a failed console (Dreamcast) and a canned online game that didn't made past pre-production phase in the middle of the following 15 years (15 years for fuck sake) .

Back then, everyone and their mothers believed that Kickstarter was the last resort, the only working desperation move that would give us our loved shenmue 3.

Even Yu Suzuki said that Shenmue 3 wouldn't be possible without Kickstarter.

Things changed when the KS campaign broke all records and basically fully reached the backing status in less than 48 hours.
So basically everyone understood with guilty delay how successful Shenmue could be in the right hands. Before that Shenmue was just "the video game black hole in which money are lost forever"

It was then that Sony, Epic, etc tried to milk the cow and the KS backers were seen simply as an annoyance



KS backers like me were switched from a necessary, lovely fans who allow the dream of Shenmue 3 to live on, to a problem that needs to be shut up asap because "muh maneyyyyy!!! 1!!1!!!"

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

 

[radewagon]

Sounds like a non-issue.

Sounds like a issue that is not a problem in a legally binding way. Dev is definitely abiding by the terms of the original kickstarter, I suppose, but this kind of action flies in the face of what kickstarter likely means to a lot of backers. The original conceit is this: The developer needs the help of the fans' financial backing in order to release a game.

From a legal standpoint, the dev is in the clear, but from a "don't be a jerk" standpoint, the dev is burning a pretty important bridge. If the dev cared about the people that got them to where they are, they'd be giving them the Steam keys instead of refunds and they'd get them the digital goods because, well, it's a nice thing to do in return for a nice thing that was done for them. Doing right by those that supported you is certainly something you can weasel out of, but you shouldn't. And if you do, you should get called out for being a shady weasel that is no longer deserving the fans' trust.

I guess it's telling that the only game I've backed was Bloodstained. And it's not because I love Castlevania. It's because I trusted Koji Igarashi. He is the man. Whoever's in charge of Shenmue, though, that guy sucks.

 

[Alexios]

Contrast that attitude and the whole Shenmue clusterfuck to this:
kickstarter.com/projects/11662585/hollow-knight/posts/2416131

To our 2158 Backers, you’ve heard it before, but Hollow Knight, and now Hornet’s entire adventure is thanks to you!

Thanks to the incredible support of players and Kickstarter backers, what started out as a tiny game jam idea has become a game bought and played by over 2.8 million people!

As a backer, your support made this happen, so you’ll of course be receiving your copy of Hollow Knight: Silksong 100% free.

But we also know that times change, and the Nintendo Switch is quickly becoming a common (and excellent) console to own. Because of that, any backer of the game from the $10AUD and above tiers can choose to receive their copy of Hollow Knight: Silksong free on either PC or Nintendo Switch, at launch. We’ll shoot out a simple survey as we get closer to release to find out which version you’d like to receive.

Higher tier backers who received multiple copies of Hollow Knight will also receive multiple copies of Hollow Knight: Silksong, the same rules apply as for Hollow Knight. You can elect for your primary copy on either Nintendo Switch or PC, with all additional copies as PC versions.

Hollow Knight: Silksong PC (Windows, Mac & Linux) copies will be supplied as both a Steam Key and a DRM free version.

That's not even content announced before/in the launch window, it's been over 2 years, they could easily skip the freebie or only give it to higher tiers. Plus they kept adding more content to the relevant tiers even without having promised it. Signed prints, the OST and more. That's appreciation.

I'm buying the shit out of their games and not even glancing at anything Shenmue 3 related any more beyond the original Dreamcast copies of 1 & 2 that I own (I was quite the fan after all even if I didn't have the money to spare during the campaign, dodged a bullet for sure).

I'm unaffected in either case but one doesn't need to be personally involved to get it. Yes, it's legal, yes they technically didn't promise any of this, saying this over and over, especially as some $30 backer "happy" with it ignoring $100-$3000 backers adds nothing.

Nobody said $30 backers should get $100 stuff value.

 

[Kazza]

I think people often forget how much smaller in scale and ambition the game would be without Deep Silver funding. $7 million in crowdfunding isn't a lot for an open world 3D game. Take this interview with Yu Suzuki:

At least, that was the original plan. When discussing the development status of the game, Suzuki noted that "although we had a lot of success on Kickstarter, when we started the project we soon realized it would be very difficult to make an open world game with that budget. Since then, we have been looking for another partner to give us additional funding and to also make the game with open world elements."

Thankfully, that partner came in the form of Deep Silver whose partnership was made public at Gamescom last month. With the additional funding in place, Suzuki tells me "We originally pitched a scalable game since, as you know, Kickstarter has stretch goals and now, after finding a new partner with Deep Silver, we're able to scale up based on the original plan. I'm fully ready to make the game with a larger scale featuring open world elements." What of the original Sony partnership then? Suzuki adds "Sony is also still supporting us. Sega too, in fact! I shouldn't forget about them."

That's why I'm so relaxed about this. A few modern day marketing practices is a small price to pay for a massively upscaled game that has received an extra year or two in the oven than originally planned.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I think that they have been treating Kickstarter backer fairly overall. I understand people being upset at the lack of steam keys at launch but I can see why they would want to switch to EGS, cutting cost in a small project like this is important and can directly affect the quality of the experience in a positive way.

I am also a day 1 backer and I did so to support the game, enable its creation, and give it a chance to go onwards and upwards from the KS state. I hope the Kickstarter would allow the game to materialise in something concrete and improve and attract more funding to improve further.

Would it be cool to get more and more stuff? Sure, it would be cool to receive a free Tesla from Musk too, but I disagree on yet another outrage because they are creating a new SKU variation and giving it different incentives: there also are KS exclusive ones, it is a fair game.

The KS also did not promise nor talk about an online pass either... if this allow the full game to receive more support and additional content and help Shenmue 4 come to life... great.

 

[mejin]

I think they already have sequels guaranteed without the need of another KS campaign.

 

[clem84]

No season pass is fine but like backing a kickstarter is the ultimate preorder so that's kind of scummy

I kind of agree with this. They could've included it. But they also never promised it so no reason to get upset over it.

 

[Panajev2001a]

No season pass is fine but like backing a kickstarter is the ultimate preorder so that's kind of scummy

No, Kickstarter is there for you to help fund a game or not. In return for your pledge the game offer some rewards.

When I backed it I was hoping it would get made and to be able to play it, but also for it to feel like a proper Shenmue entry. In addition to giving me the rewards promised they went and improved the scope and funding for the game and this is resulting in a better Shenmue... I see no indication that they sold out or anything.

Extra SKU has its own incentives like the KS has its own exclusive ones... again, what was the scam?

 

[Ballthyrm]

Contrast that attitude and the whole Shenmue clusterfuck to this:
kickstarter.com/projects/11662585/hollow-knight/posts/2416131

This is equally stupid to somehow expect this as the default.
Why should any devs be beholden to the highest standard all the time.

The developer needs the help of the fans' financial backing in order to release a game.

That was true, without the kickstarter he wouldn't have got the support from Deep Silver. And without Deep Silver money he probably couldn't have delivered the game.
Now if Deep Silver wants to add some DLC to get back on their investment, they can do that.
The fan still get the content they "payed for" which for my PoV is dubious to begin with as i don't believe he could have finished the game without Deep Silver money.


The problem here is as always, fan expectation.
Most backed something they don't understand, blindly on faith of the dev alone (that's their mistake, not the dev)
You giving money away as a charitable act, not a pre-order, it doesn't entitle you to have any say on how decisions get made, etc, etc.

I happen to be a backer of the project and my expectations were as followed.

Get the game : (•‿•)
Don't get the game : ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Pantz]

I'm more annoyed at the inclusion of an in-game technique as a pre-order bonus in the first place. Wish they would stick to cosmetics for pre-order bonuses. Sometimes they make it available for sale later on and sometimes they don't.

It does suck that they couldn't give the pre-order bonuses to backers but since backers only get the standard edition they wouldn't be getting the deluxe bonuses anyway. I guess Sony/Epic would be the ones to blame for not being willing to distribute codes for individual downloads of those bonuses?

Best solution for backers would be to pre-order that digital deluxe edition and then sell your physical Kickstarter copy on ebay to recoup your money. I was going to do this anyway since I'm guessing the Kickstarter shipment probably won't even arrive on launch day. While you're at it you might as well pre-order at gamestop to get that Dragon Mirror and then resell that one too.

 

[sol_bad]

I understand that they aren't obligated to give this to backers.
But correct me if I am wrong. They are asking the people who helped fund their game, to basically buy the game again, if they want this pre-order content?

 

[Fbh]

I can see both side.
They never promised any of this so provided that all of the promises and stretch goals of the original campaign are met, backers are definitely not entitled to any of this stuff.

At the same time though, for a game that basically only exists because of their kickstarter backers (even if they ended up getting funding from other places, the kickstarter was also important in showing interest for the product), I think it would have been a nice gesture to give them the pre order bonus stuff.

I'm also not sure how wise it is to hurt the goodwill of your backers. From my understanding this is far from being the end of the story and I'm not sure it will sell well outside of Shenmue fans. If this doesn't meet the expectations of the publisher chances are they might need a new kickstarter for future games which is going to be harder now

 

[CuNi]

I don't understand why backers don't get pre-orders.. I mean technically they were even on board BEFORE the pre-orders existed? And it wouldn't really be hard or hit their revenue to just give out the pre-order DLC for the backers as well, just seems weird to me. Season Pass on the other hand I kind of understand... I mean you get the normal version of the game (if I am wrong, feel free to correct me!) for being a backer, right? The normal version has no Season Pass either afaik so that's just parity to others.. I think it would be cool to offer the Pass for like 15% off for backers thought as a "thank you!" for backing the game...

tl;dr
Pre-order bonus should be a given, season pass not so, would be nice to be able to buy reduced but I think it's also fair to just pay full price for it.

 

[TheGreatYosh]

I backed this game. I don't really care if I get pre-order bonuses. All of the negative news on this game is just disappointing. The one game I back, and they remind me why I don't back games.

 

[ethomaz]

That is the right lol

You backed the project... not preordered a product.

As a backer the biggest bonus is to see your backed game created and having success.

 

[Lastyou1]

This is equally stupid to somehow expect this as the default.
Why should any devs be beholden to the highest standard all the time.



That was true, without the kickstarter he wouldn't have got the support from Deep Silver. And without Deep Silver money he probably couldn't have delivered the game.
Now if Deep Silver wants to add some DLC to get back on their investment, they can do that.
The fan still get the content they "payed for" which for my PoV is dubious to begin with as i don't believe he could have finished the game without Deep Silver money.


The problem here is as always, fan expectation.
Most backed something they don't understand, blindly on faith of the dev alone (that's their mistake, not the dev)
You giving money away as a charitable act, not a pre-order, it doesn't entitle you to have any say on how decisions get made, etc, etc.

I happen to be a backer of the project and my expectations were as followed.

Get the game : (•‿•)
Don't get the game : ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I gave my money to the Kickstarter campaign for two reasons alone


1- to make sure that the game was made, because without KS, Shenmue would still be a fantasyware.

2-I expected a low budget, even low quality (technical wise and technical wise ONLY-KEY WORD "ONLY" -) and low scale game, but full of genuinity, soul and heart. If I wanted to have a huge open world game with great graphics, but without genuinity, soul and heart I would have bought a Ubisoft game, not backed a KS campaign.


There is this false narrative that the most loyal fanbase wanted to have a bigger, better, highly budgeted game.

No.

We wanted the game to be simply Shenmue 3 and the game had to be made with what the campaign managed to reach in terms of money and visibility.


Again, guys, I respect all of you, but keep this false narrative for yourselves.

That's not what I asked nor what was promised when I gave my money.
It wasn't faith, nor excessive expectations. I expected a 11 million dollars budgeted game. That's what I wanted. Nothing less, nothing more.


If deep silver wanted to make Shenmue 3, they could have proposed themselves many years ago. Now, they are just speculating onto the KS campaign.

 

[Constant Flux]

So, I backed this game and have a pre-order worth $250 for the PS4. Is there any way I can get a refund? I’m not really interested in the extras I was going to pay for and would rather get another edition instead. If I can get a refund, who should I contact? Thank you so much for the help!

 

[Panajev2001a]

1- to make sure that the game was made, because without KS, Shenmue would still be a fantasyware.

2-I expected a low budget, even low quality (technical wise and technical wise ONLY-KEY WORD "ONLY" -) and low scale game, but full of genuinity, soul and heart. If I wanted to have a huge open world game with great graphics, but without genuinity, soul and heart I would have bought a Ubisoft game, not backed a KS campaign.

I respect your feelings, but I am not understanding the insistence the game had to be made with just the funds allotted by the Kickstarter campaign (especially given the FUD campaign ran against it during the whole Kickstarter)... as your second point there requires, the game we see now is built with soul, heart, and genuinity. It actually feels true to Shenmue form, does not look or feel like a sellout, and it is coming out in quite a reasonable time. Especially considering a small team around it.

Shenmue is getting made and the creators, like on many Kickstarters, used the strong backing and popularity to build a core they could be proud of, but also that could allow them to secure a good deal for them for an ulterior investment allowing them to realise their vision (and ultimately deliver more stretch goals than just jthe ones they even promised).

If they had perverted the Shenmue formula because of DeepSilver funding fine... you got a point, but they do not seem to have.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I can see both side.
They never promised any of this so provided that all of the promises and stretch goals of the original campaign are met, backers are definitely not entitled to any of this stuff.

At the same time though, for a game that basically only exists because of their kickstarter backers (even if they ended up getting funding from other places, the kickstarter was also important in showing interest for the product), I think it would have been a nice gesture to give them the pre order bonus stuff.

I'm also not sure how wise it is to hurt the goodwill of your backers. From my understanding this is far from being the end of the story and I'm not sure it will sell well outside of Shenmue fans. If this doesn't meet the expectations of the publisher chances are they might need a new kickstarter for future games which is going to be harder now

I am afraid I could see Suzuki’s side in this if it all were to go bad “Really? At my age I assemble a team and work super hard to get you the game I thought you deserved and FUD and partisan bickering is what I and everyone that sounds involved or helped me get during the campaign and then we have such emotional overreaction all up to the actual release? Look, I know how the story ends, if this is what happens... screw Shenmue 4... you obviously prefer not to have it”.

 

[Starlight Lotice]

Given the fans gave money to YsNet to make this game. They shouod have had the bonuses be default as a Thank You.

Bloodstained has done this right so far. Surprised that Yu Suzuki would do this to his own fans really.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Given the fans gave money to YsNet to make this game. They shouod have had the bonuses be default as a Thank You.

Bloodstained has done this right so far. Surprised that Yu Suzuki would do this to his own fans really.

KS backers have exclusive bonuses already, fans made this game possible, but did not pay for everything in perpetuity. I think it is fair for DeepSilver to add a new SKU and have some minor content to hopefully drive additional sales.

Bloodstained cancelling Wii U and PS Vita versions received a lot less pushback than Shenmue III PC moving from Steam to EGS ffs... and mind you it was an over reaction back then too (considering the cuts the Switch version got, I do not even dare to think what the state of the PS Vita build could have been).

Look, if I see the game chock full of loot boxes left right and centre yep, will join the angry train with you, but until then I will keep saying that there seems to be a general irrational and emotional at best over reaction to just about anything that can be used against the game: so far people have called the game out a snap hoped for it to fail and the team to disband because on PC it moved to the EGS for delivery (some die hard green console fans still shit on it as they shat on NMS until it went multiplatform) and now the next “sky is falling” moment is because an additional SKU has some minor pre order bonuses even though the KS edition has its own bonuses... oh yeah, they announced a season pass and it is not free... .

Did you back the project if you do not mind me asking btw?

 

[Pejo]

KS backers have exclusive bonuses already, fans made this game possible, but did not pay for everything in perpetuity. I think it is fair for DeepSilver to add a new SKU and have some minor content to hopefully drive additional sales.

Bloodstained cancelling Wii U and PS Vita versions received a lot less pushback than Shenmue III PC moving from Steam to EGS ffs... and mind you it was an over reaction back then too (considering the cuts the Switch version got, I do not even dare to think what the state of the PS Vita build could have been).

Look, if I see the game chock full of loot boxes left right and centre yep, will join the angry train with you, but until then I will keep saying that there seems to be a general irrational and emotional at best over reaction to just about anything that can be used against the game: so far people have called the game out a snap hoped for it to fail and the team to disband because on PC it moved to the EGS for delivery (some die hard green console fans still shit on it as they shat on NMS until it went multiplatform) and now the next “sky is falling” moment is because an additional SKU has some minor pre order bonuses even though the KS edition has its own bonuses... oh yeah, they announced a season pass and it is not free... .

Did you back the project if you do not mind me asking btw?

Man, I just hope you are either already working for Deep SIlver/EGS or that they offer you a job after this. You've been non-stop doing damage control and shilling in every Shenmue related thread that I've seen.

 

[Lanrutcon]

No season pass? Ok.
No pre-order bonuses? That's just petty.

 

[Enjay]

What is it with deep silver and getting in on japanese kickstarter scams and making them a very public failure?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Man, I just hope you are either already working for Deep SIlver/EGS or that they offer you a job after this. You've been non-stop doing damage control and shilling in every Shenmue related thread that I've seen.

Look, keep at it, keep on emotionally over-reacting... should I call you names and pretend you are doing it only because it is not coming out on Xbox like others have done? No, I do not know you, I am not following you... I have no clue on why you are so hell bent on ensuring this game fails. I do not appreciate what sometime seem like disingenous statements at best and on a free forum when I disagree with someone I engage with them and talk to them. You are free to ignore me, I do not like to put anyone here on an ignore list, but that is just me.

What I do know is that you have made bold talking points "it is a scam, they are screwing people over" then avoiding to articulate why and how this is being done. If the game comes out and sucks big time and it is a chock full lootbox bonanza then fine, anger ahoy. Until then, what have they done not to earn the benefit of doubt?

I do have a horse in this race, I have backed this game, I have picked this series up on the Dreamcast when it came out, followed it on OG Xbox when it came out on that console, and would have bought whatever console I could afford if the third game had been announced only on it (Xbox One, PS4, Atari next-gen, Switch, etc...) unless the game had revealed itself to be some half baked dilution of the original game experience like the MMO that was being worked on a few years ago or so.

What is it with deep silver and getting in on japanese kickstarter scams and making them a very public failure?

Why is this a scam?

No season pass? Ok.
No pre-order bonuses? That's just petty.

You have pre-order bonuses, the KS exclusive ones... I realise they could do more, people could always do more, but dragging them over the coals because of this kind of issues? That is quite petty and self destructive.

 

[Lanrutcon]

You have pre-order bonuses, the KS exclusive ones... I realise they could do more, people could always do more, but dragging them over the coals because of this kind of issues? That is quite petty and self destructive.

Naw. Calling someone out for being petty doesn't make you petty (and I don't think "self destructive" means what you think it means). You're deflecting.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Naw. Calling someone out for being petty doesn't make you petty (and I don't think "self destructive" means what you think it means). You're deflecting.

I directly said that I do not believe they are doing something petty as they are giving exclusive KS preorder bonuses. They have created an additional SKU, also helped by the funding provided by Deep Silver, and are offering some additional incentives to those that buy into the series post the Kickstarter.

It would be nice if they gave more stuff to the backers, but I do not think it is petty of them to agree to this with their publisher if this has been part of the extra funding agreement and I do not see it as being a major issue either.
Sure, you are not getting the additional pre-order bonuses for free (for now at least), but the reason these additional bonuses exists is because the game now received additional help to ensure it is a better and stronger Shenmue followup. Maybe if there had been less FUD thrown at the game during the Kickstarter funding they would have to rely less on third party publishers (not saying that it would have been likely, but more possible possibly).

As a Shenmue series fan, especially given what we have seen and heard from hands on of reasonable Shenmue fans (like Huber of GT fame), dragging the game over the coals because of this kind of issues feels as petty as them not giving additional bonuses to the KS backers for free if not more so... and if all this exaggerated outrage helps the game to sell less and the series goes on hiatus for another 15+ years as a result it will not help anyone and if this were coming frome the supposed fanbase then it is self destructive ("causing harm to oneself")...

 

[Lanrutcon]

I directly said that I do not believe they are doing something petty as they are giving exclusive KS preorder bonuses. They have created an additional SKU, also helped by the funding provided by Deep Silver, and are offering some additional incentives to those that buy into the series post the Kickstarter.

It would be nice if they gave more stuff to the backers, but I do not think it is petty of them to agree to this with their publisher if this has been part of the extra funding agreement and I do not see it as being a major issue either.
Sure, you are not getting the additional pre-order bonuses for free (for now at least), but the reason these additional bonuses exists is because the game now received additional help to ensure it is a better and stronger Shenmue followup. Maybe if there had been less FUD thrown at the game during the Kickstarter funding they would have to rely less on third party publishers (not saying that it would have been likely, but more possible possibly).

As a Shenmue series fan, especially given what we have seen and heard from hands on of reasonable Shenmue fans (like Huber of GT fame), dragging the game over the coals because of this kind of issues feels as petty as them not giving additional bonuses to the KS backers for free if not more so... and if all this exaggerated outrage helps the game to sell less and the series goes on hiatus for another 15+ years as a result it will not help anyone and if this were coming frome the supposed fanbase then it is self destructive ("causing harm to oneself")...

They could provide that incentive to buyers and reward their core fanbase (aka backers). Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Hell, they could even offer the pre-order bonus as a mini paid DLC to backers. They're not doing squat, except flipping off their most hardcore fans and handling this pretty poorly. That seems self-destructive, yeah?

Underlined words for no reason.

 

[Enjay]

It would be nice if they gave more stuff to the backers, but I do not think it is petty of them to agree to this with their publisher if this has been part of the extra funding agreement and I do not see it as being a major issue either aside from the book of a post I just wrote before that sentence and the book of a post I've written after that sentence.

 

[Starlight Lotice]

KS backers have exclusive bonuses already, fans made this game possible, but did not pay for everything in perpetuity. I think it is fair for DeepSilver to add a new SKU and have some minor content to hopefully drive additional sales.

Bloodstained cancelling Wii U and PS Vita versions received a lot less pushback than Shenmue III PC moving from Steam to EGS ffs... and mind you it was an over reaction back then too (considering the cuts the Switch version got, I do not even dare to think what the state of the PS Vita build could have been).

Look, if I see the game chock full of loot boxes left right and centre yep, will join the angry train with you, but until then I will keep saying that there seems to be a general irrational and emotional at best over reaction to just about anything that can be used against the game: so far people have called the game out a snap hoped for it to fail and the team to disband because on PC it moved to the EGS for delivery (some die hard green console fans still shit on it as they shat on NMS until it went multiplatform) and now the next “sky is falling” moment is because an additional SKU has some minor pre order bonuses even though the KS edition has its own bonuses... oh yeah, they announced a season pass and it is not free... .

Did you back the project if you do not mind me asking btw?

I backed it.

I just think that the ones on the KS were the fans who were desperate to get S3 done and they should at least get some of the content from the Pre-Orders as well.

 

[Tesseract]

take a shit on your angel investors, nice

 

[Geki-D]

We are really outraged that they aren't giving out free additional content above what was originally promised and agreed upon? Get over it.

I agree, though it kinda stings to know that I'm passing up on dat sweet pendant because I backed rather than pre ordered.

I guess I will get my name buried in the 1 hour, 6,500 person long credits, though. There's that.

Now that I think about it, I was meant to get a trail too, wasn't I?

 

[sublimit]

If Sega still respected this franchise and its legacy they should have never let Shenmue 3 go to Shitstarter. It should have been developed by Sega internally with a collaboration of Yu Suzuki and Nagoshi's Yakuza team.

And i'm saying this as someone who never played any Shenmue game but i understand the impact this series had.

 

[Lastyou1]

I respect your feelings, but I am not understanding the insistence the game had to be made with just the funds allotted by the Kickstarter campaign (especially given the FUD campaign ran against it during the whole Kickstarter)... as your second point there requires, the game we see now is built with soul, heart, and genuinity. It actually feels true to Shenmue form, does not look or feel like a sellout, and it is coming out in quite a reasonable time. Especially considering a small team around it.

Shenmue is getting made and the creators, like on many Kickstarters, used the strong backing and popularity to build a core they could be proud of, but also that could allow them to secure a good deal for them for an ulterior investment allowing them to realise their vision (and ultimately deliver more stretch goals than just jthe ones they even promised).

If they had perverted the Shenmue formula because of DeepSilver funding fine... you got a point, but they do not seem to have.

The simple fact that they are adding a season pass is a proof that the Shenmue formula (one and done game) have been perververted.


Look, I am not angry because I will not get the season pass included in the KS campaign.

I am angry because a season pass is getting made to begin with.


Yu Suzuki never talked about the possibility of a season pass or paid DLCs. Obviously this is a Deep Silver cop out.

Shenmue 3 story needs to be complete from start to finish, I don't want to pay more for an exclusive "chapter" or "scenario" that wasn't thought as a part of the game.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

Sounds like a non-issue.

Like 99.8% of all gamer "outrages" really.

 

[lukilladog]

Game backers need to start to look and demand for better terms. Deep Silver showed up to literally make money off their hard working, good faith, enthusiast asses... yet they wont give them this trash dlc for free nor the store front they want

 

[Panajev2001a]

I backed it.

I just think that the ones on the KS were the fans who were desperate to get S3 done and they should at least get some of the content from the Pre-Orders as well.

I backed it as well and I am getting the full game (even better than what the original backing would have allowed) , now as an exercise how many of you are protesting against Oculus with a proportionally scaled anger response?

Remember that Oculus used the KS money to generate a product they then used to raise additional funding and only that second layer of private backers/investors got a share of the billions that Facebook paid them?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Game backers need to start to look and demand for better terms. Deep Silver showed up to literally make money off their hard working, good faith, enthusiast asses... yet they wont give them this trash dlc for free nor the store front they want

Deep Silver gave Ys.Net money used to make a better game and do not deserve to make money off it at all despite the game seemingly being better because of this? And all because of these pieces of DLC?

 

[Panajev2001a]

The simple fact that they are adding a season pass is a proof that the Shenmue formula (one and done game) have been perververted.


Look, I am not angry because I will not get the season pass included in the KS campaign.

I am angry because a season pass is getting made to begin with.


Yu Suzuki never talked about the possibility of a season pass or paid DLCs. Obviously this is a Deep Silver cop out.

Shenmue 3 story needs to be complete from start to finish, I don't want to pay more for an exclusive "chapter" or "scenario" that wasn't thought as a part of the game.

The same Shenmue that skipped an entire chapter between Shenmue I and II? The same series which is delivering an episodic story split between many games from the start?

To be fair the non perverted Shenmue games were made outside of a Kickstarter and financed by a company with a much bigger budget backing it... save some anger for those that spent time spreading FUD against the game when it was collecting funding too. Maybe collecting a far higher KS payout would have kept DS out of the picture and they would have still delivered the core Shenmue experience.

We could talk about games not being made like before and DLC now being a given (even Nintendo games get DLC and post launch patches), but before we shout that the sky is falling because they announced a season pass, could we acknowledge how much the scope grew from the KS and the additional non funded stretch goals they included as a result of that and that are not locked to the season pass? Can we wait until they actually detail more what the season pass is about?

Do not get why this project has zero benefit of doubt given to it sometimes...

 

[Silent Viper]

Pre order bonus was never part of Kickstarter to begin with. Gamers want everything free today.

 

[Starlight Lotice]

I backed it as well and I am getting the full game (even better than what the original backing would have allowed) , now as an exercise how many of you are protesting against Oculus with a proportionally scales anger response?

Remember that Oculus used the KS money to generate a product they then used to raise additional funding and only that second layer of private backers/investors got a share of the billions that Facebook paid them?

Oculus? I didn't know it was on there to be fair.

It does sound unfair but I can't really add to that one as I don't have knowledge on the matter.

I am not angry on a personal level, but I can understand the fans, who donated far more than I did would be upset at the DLC being exclusive to those who pre-ordered and didn't back a game the fans wanted to start in motion to ensure the story is complete.

I know if I were a mega fan of the franchise, pouring a lot into it because not only would I love the game to happen, but to also say that they got content other people didn't have would be a sense of pride that they made it happen with other mega fans out there.

For those on the fence, this is great because they didn't plunge in but got content those fans didn't, so I can see why someone else would be annoyed.

There is no promise, like you said, but you would think that the Creator would reward the fans who got it off the ground more than some people who bought it later down the road, who will have only paid between $60/45 and got exclusive game content. That's my take on it. It's great if you waited, but sucks if you didn't.

I wouldn't say entitlement in this case, as a few of those fans paid in £100s if not £1000s to get this off the ground. So the DLC, which likely will only cost $10 on top would seem like a kick in the teeth for those who paid more. (I only paid the initial £45)

 

[Panajev2001a]

Oculus? I didn't know it was on there to be fair.

It does sound unfair but I can't really add to that one as I don't have knowledge on the matter.

It is public: https://www.theguardian.com/technol...oculus-rift-facebook-fury-kickstarter-funders

 

[Starlight Lotice]

It is public: https://www.theguardian.com/technol...oculus-rift-facebook-fury-kickstarter-funders

I will look at that later so thank you for the infromation.

However, the article is a little different to what YsNet have done (comparing it to the EGS thing would be more fairer), which is an argument for another poster.

As long as Oculus gave the final product to the customers (regardless of the sale), then the backers can't complain if Facebook bought out the company.

 

[Lastyou1]

The same Shenmue that skipped an entire chapter between Shenmue I and II? The same series which is delivering an episodic story split between many games from the start?

To be fair the non perverted Shenmue games were made outside of a Kickstarter and financed by a company with a much bigger budget backing it... save some anger for those that spent time spreading FUD against the game when it was collecting funding too. Maybe collecting a far higher KS payout would have kept DS out of the picture and they would have still delivered the core Shenmue experience.

We could talk about games not being made like before and DLC now being a given (even Nintendo games get DLC and post launch patches), but before we shout that the sky is falling because they announced a season pass, could we acknowledge how much the scope grew from the KS and the additional non funded stretch goals they included as a result of that and that are not locked to the season pass? Can we wait until they actually detail more what the season pass is about?

Do not get why this project has zero benefit of doubt given to it sometimes...

Chapter 2 is totally irrelevant to the main story and is/was readable for free. So nothing of great value was lost.



The KS was an all time record for the video game department, and the second ever in the game department, beaten only by a table, card and dice game I can't remember.

It was Yu Suzuki and his team who set the stretch goals. They said that they needed 7 millions USDs to "Kickstart" and they got 11 millions.

Deep Silver, at this point, was useless?
Where the hell were they in the previous 15 years when Shenmue 3 needed funding in order to exist?

They got 11 millions less to spend on the total budget, the least they could do is to avoid DLCs and other shitty pre-order bonuses.


The season passes nowadays are always the same: extra chapter, extra costumes and a couple more moves and mini-game.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Oculus? I didn't know it was on there to be fair.

It does sound unfair but I can't really add to that one as I don't have knowledge on the matter.

I am not angry on a personal level, but I can understand the fans, who donated far more than I did would be upset at the DLC being exclusive to those who pre-ordered and didn't back a game the fans wanted to start in motion to ensure the story is complete.

I know if I were a mega fan of the franchise, pouring a lot into it because not only would I love the game to happen, but to also say that they got content other people didn't have would be a sense of pride that they made it happen with other mega fans out there.

For those on the fence, this is great because they didn't plunge in but got content those fans didn't, so I can see why someone else would be annoyed.

There is no promise, like you said, but you would think that the Creator would reward the fans who got it off the ground more than some people who bought it later down the road, who will have only paid between $60/45 and got exclusive game content. That's my take on it. It's great if you waited, but sucks if you didn't.

I can understand how you feel and it sounds you come from a very reasonable position.
I backed the project when it came out, I backed it with perhaps the biggest contribution I ever gave to an KS project (no, not gone in crazy amout like thousand of £, but a fair bit more the minimum tier), so yes I have skin in the game and someone could say I am just justifying my investment.

It depends on what the exclusive DLC is, if it ever comes out for the KS backers, and the amount of KS exclusive DLC people who could not or would not fund the KS at the time, maybe because of all the disingenous fake concern / FUD people threw at the Shenmue KS back then... and due to the lack of funding an external publisher had to be brought in to complete the Shenmue vision and scope.
Still, for me, I see the Shenmue game I was hoping for taking shape and that core experience being alive and well is what I funded the KS for. I would love to get even more stuff, but I am happy the game is coming, it looks solid, and it may bring additional players beyond those that funded the Kickstarter and decide to pre-order now.

I have not seen rumors of big exclusive story DLC that the KS backers will not get and if they did add future story DLC everyone could buy... well, Shenmue is an episodic game series, always has been (they even skipped a chapter as I was saying earlier between Shenmue I and Shenmue II), and as long as the package we will get access to when the game is available to download in full is a good enough self contained experience... what would be the problem in theoretical story DLC additions if there were any? Suzuki has said for a good while that Shenmue III is not big enough, no single game is without butchering the story, to complete and end the series...

 

[Panajev2001a]

I will look at that later so thank you for the infromation.

However, the article is a little different to what YsNet have done (comparing it to the EGS thing would be more fairer), which is an argument for another poster.

As long as Oculus gave the final product to the customers (regardless of the sale), then the backers can't complain if Facebook bought out the company.

The problem is not that they sold it to Facebook, but that they used the product they developed thanks to the KS funding, refine it and get additional funding from new private investors, sell out to Facebook and only share the pie with the second group of private investors.

I think we will get the complete game through the KS.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

I wish I had a life where I felt entitled to everything.

Anyways games are going to have an interesting 10 years. With this gamepass shit. I can totally see Microsoft making console games use the phone game model.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Chapter 2 is totally irrelevant to the main story and is/was readable for free. So nothing of great value was lost.

You could have built a nice story and gameplay around it... yet the exclusive DLC for the new pre-order campaign is soooooo much bigger?

The KS was an all time record for the video game department, and the second ever in the game department, beaten only by a table, card and dice game I can't remember.

Breaking a record does not mean making billions, it is good, but also speaks of the relatively low KS ceiling.

It was Yu Suzuki and his team who set the stretch goals. They said that they needed 7 millions USDs to "Kickstart" and they got 11 millions.
Deep Silver, at this point, was useless?
Where the hell were they in the previous 15 years when Shenmue 3 needed funding in order to exist?

They kickstarted the game, maybe were hoping to get more, maybe they miscalculated cost vs scope, and maybe at the beginning they thought they could reasonably give the proper Shenmue sequel fans deserved and slowly realised they could not?
I am not saying DS is a group of saints, they accepted Ys.Net terms and invested as they saw something that could turn into something even better and that could sell hopefully well... so they invested in it and allowed Ys.Net to make a better game. Where was SEGA for 15 years? Where was MS? Where was Nintendo?... etc... etc...

They got 11 millions less to spend on the total budget, the least they could do is to avoid DLCs and other shitty pre-order bonuses.
The season passes nowadays are always the same: extra chapter, extra costumes and a couple more moves and mini-game.

--> "So nothing of great value was lost." ?

 

[Starlight Lotice]

I can understand how you feel and it sounds you come from a very reasonable position.
I backed the project when it came out, I backed it with perhaps the biggest contribution I ever gave to an KS project (no, not gone in crazy amout like thousand of £, but a fair bit more the minimum tier), so yes I have skin in the game and someone could say I am just justifying my investment.

It depends on what the exclusive DLC is, if it ever comes out for the KS backers, and the amount of KS exclusive DLC people who could not or would not fund the KS at the time, maybe because of all the disingenous fake concern / FUD people threw at the Shenmue KS back then... and due to the lack of funding an external publisher had to be brought in to complete the Shenmue vision and scope.
Still, for me, I see the Shenmue game I was hoping for taking shape and that core experience being alive and well is what I funded the KS for. I would love to get even more stuff, but I am happy the game is coming, it looks solid, and it may bring additional players beyond those that funded the Kickstarter and decide to pre-order now.

I have not seen rumors of big exclusive story DLC that the KS backers will not get and if they did add future story DLC everyone could buy... well, Shenmue is an episodic game series, always has been (they even skipped a chapter as I was saying earlier between Shenmue I and Shenmue II), and as long as the package we will get access to when the game is available to download in full is a good enough self contained experience... what would be the problem in theoretical story DLC additions if there were any? Suzuki has said for a good while that Shenmue III is not big enough, no single game is without butchering the story, to complete and end the series...

No problem! I am very understanding.

People shouldn't go on the promises of DLC, you're right as what matters is the core game, and it's true that it depends on what is given to those on KS and those on Pre-Orders.

I don't think it's going to be a huge thing in regards to content split between them, but you never know what people think they wish to have really. It is funny though as someone who bought it after the KS may moan about not getting what the KS backers got and the KS people may moan about what the Pre-Order guys get, so in that scenario they could swap codes.

It'll be a great game regardless of the added stuff. I just hope the whole EGS thing doesn't distract from it all as it seems to be upsetting the PC Shenmue fans the most.

The problem is not that they sold it to Facebook, but that they used the product they developed thanks to the KS funding, refine it and get additional funding from new private investors, sell out to Facebook and only share the pie with the second group of private investors.

I think we will get the complete game through the KS.

Ah right, that's pretty bad. The better option would have been to give those lower tiered investors a chance to upgrade to the second tier at a lowered one off price. Should they take it of course.

That way those on the lower tier can't moan once the offer was done as they were given the opportunity.

Personally, I think I am done with Kickstarter, but I have had a good run with what I invested in. I do think the Developers overestimate what they want in their games and have to backtrack a lot on additional stretch goals. Perhaps if they mentioned that they will get additional funding for important stretch goals (and not promises like "Get it on X Console"), and try and do the bare minimum on these stretch goals, then I think people would be happier with that option. I don't mind the game being sold after the KS since it's something everyone should enjoy, and everyone who participated in the KS should be thanked in the credits no matter how much you put in (I wasn't in the credits of Bloodstained as I didn't reach the minimum, but I personally think paying $100+ is a little harsh if you bought the Physical game).

I will still buy Books on it as they are usually successful with realistic stretch goals (more pages).