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The Daily Show: A true low-spin zone
- Thread starter JoshuaJSlone
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ConfusingJazz
Member
I think the main reason Jon tore into the guy is because the representative was part of the rapid response team, aka spin doctors. They are the ones that come up with "talking points" which is prevalent on both parties, which Jon seems to really loathe. I think the Daily Show's agenda is to go past the bullshit on the 24 hour news networks. A large chunk of the convention coverage was just tearing up the networks coverage of the conventions. He really made Chris Matthews seem like an ass for interupting Al Sharpton's speech. And did you see the end of the show friday, he basically insulted every major pundit, including James Carville, Paul Begalia, and George Stephanopolis along with Bill O'reily, Sean Hannity, and Chris Tucker.
I will admit he has in the last month or two, he has started to really attacked the reasons for going to war, but its really humorous when he calls Dick Cheney on something he denies he ever said. But its still a little bias.
In The Daily Show's Defense, he really did rip Kerry a new one on his rebuttal to Bush's turning a corner speech. God that was painful to watch. He really needs to get a better writer or something.
I will admit he has in the last month or two, he has started to really attacked the reasons for going to war, but its really humorous when he calls Dick Cheney on something he denies he ever said. But its still a little bias.
In The Daily Show's Defense, he really did rip Kerry a new one on his rebuttal to Bush's turning a corner speech. God that was painful to watch. He really needs to get a better writer or something.
Kobun Heat
Member
Uh-huh. That's since 1996. They've been doing the poll since 1981.
Makura said:
Go re-read my post. Short version: While gearing up for the primary, Kerry and Edwards a) didn't make all the votes as they were on the campaign trail and b) made a point of appealing to the party for the key votes they did make. Which means you're going to get a skewed votin record of how liberal they are. If you look over the past four years, you'll see that they are hardly the most liberal of all senators.
FnordChan
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Kobun Heat said:
Jon did not provide facts for every year. But he was not the one claiming Kerry was first throughout his career according to a variety of groups.
Hell, if he was the "most liberal" for 4 years and still ended up with an overall ranking of 12th, he had to have some pretty moderate years.
Also, where do you find the numbers since 1981 listed? I'd be interested in seeing it, but Google brings too many results; mostly news stories concerning the 2003 numbers.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
I'm beginning to doubt this number. Just adding up the 6 years we DO have listed here and dividing by 6, you get 11.5. So it seems like someone could've derived that "12th" number in a really wonky way.Azih said:
The only really sensible way to get an average ranking is to find the average 'liberalness' of every senator in congress by adding their points for every year and dividing by the number of years they've been in there and then seeing where every one falls.
So to calculate that ranking you'd have to find the ranking for every senator in congress since 1981 not just Kerry's.
Edit: PLUS, it has to be obvious just from the few years that we do have in this thread that 2003 is pretty aberrant for the two senators, Especially for Edwards.
So to calculate that ranking you'd have to find the ranking for every senator in congress since 1981 not just Kerry's.
Edit: PLUS, it has to be obvious just from the few years that we do have in this thread that 2003 is pretty aberrant for the two senators, Especially for Edwards.
Who said it was funny? I just found it refreshing.etiolate said:
Yeah, that's an ongoing one. They also did an entire skit on 'John Kerry: The least objectionable alternative to George W. Bush'. Or one very sweeping jab on Democrats: "Democrats... standing up for what they later realize they should have believed in."
The GOP gets the majority of the attention, but I wouldn't think it's an intentional slant. If they can make something funny, they will, regardless of who provides it. It just so happens that the Bush administration happens to be in the news constantly. Yet they seem to make fun of Kerry on the most obscure campaign spots (such as telling a little girl that she has the same name as Edward's wife).
Oh come on. Jon is certainly liberal, but that's the first time I've ever seen him debate a Republican and he did it VERY tentatively. He gives EVERYONE free ride, but I think he saw an opportunity to expose spin itself; not just Republicans. Why do you think Republicans continue to go on his show probably as regularly as Democrats?? Because they can be confident that they can promote their cause without being hassled.
Get a clue. It's not REALLY a fake news show. They report on actual news. The thing is that they make obvious jokes that never took place (for instance, cutting away from a quote and Stewart saying "Kerry then said, '___________'" which he never did, but it's funny). If they projected themselves as a true news program, people would love to try and hold them responsible.
"some sort of prophet spreading the good news of the democratic party"???
....you people are batshit insane.
And I'm not seeing this agenda. If one existed, I wouldn't think they'd be so eager to make fun of John Kerry or the Democrats with even the smallest opportunities that they provide.
I don't think DS has an agenda outside of promoting common fucking sense. You'd be a fool to only get your news from the Daily Show, but I think it's refreshing that they attack both Democrats and Republicans equally. I think jokes are a lot funnier when they actually have some bite to them, like the way Jon lured the congressman right into his trap without the guy even realizing it last night.
One thing I remember reading is that a lot of weights for the votes are pretty skewed - for example, it was more "liberal" to vote against the recent medicare expansion. I forget where I saw that though, so could be wrong....but still, it's important to keep in mind how many attachments a lot of bills have, and the degree of subjectivity involved in decided what a singe vote equals. So the rankings deserve a grain of salt.
The guy on the show last night totally had it coming, after he tried to make the reviews some sort of unanimous consensus of union and business interests or whatever, and then explicitly said "They cover their entire career"
As for the show...well, Stewart is definitely more liberal, but he still mocks democrats all the time. The show probably is biased, but I also think it makes notable, sincere efforts to be evenhanded. And I've seen Republicans defend it often too, so whatever.
The audience is annoying.
The guy on the show last night totally had it coming, after he tried to make the reviews some sort of unanimous consensus of union and business interests or whatever, and then explicitly said "They cover their entire career"
As for the show...well, Stewart is definitely more liberal, but he still mocks democrats all the time. The show probably is biased, but I also think it makes notable, sincere efforts to be evenhanded. And I've seen Republicans defend it often too, so whatever.
The audience is annoying.
ConfusingJazz
Member
The guest on on the show last night was a spin doctor aka Fast Reaction Response or whatever the hell they called it.
Its people like that that give you the words flip flop broadcast 50,000 times a day. I think he had it coming to get called on it, which they usually aren't.
Its people like that that give you the words flip flop broadcast 50,000 times a day. I think he had it coming to get called on it, which they usually aren't.
Lemurnator
Banned
I really don't think those segments of the show are real... I think that guy's probably an actor.
Camillemurs said:
They are real, even the most outlandish ones, like the woman who was being oppressed by non-smoking facilities or the guy who confronted Niel Armstrong about faking the moon landing.
My torts professor was on the smoking segment.
Tommie Hu$tle
Member
ConfusingJazz said:
How is that bias? That sounds like truth to me. If the Dem party was anyway halfway smart they would take those moments and show how Cheney is a flip flopper.
The bias thing is a joke. The republicans are in power and thus have control over much more of the discussion, therefore are open to more jokes. And lets face it, this particular republican administration is much easier to make jokes about. And on top of that you have the whole war and every lie and spin they match with it. Easy fodder for comedians.
mightynine
Member
Makura said:
Huh what now?
I really can't say there's a complete Liberal lean on the show, but as a liberal I may not be the best to judge this. In all honesty, though, he spends a good amount of time ripping on Kerry. And that's an achievement, really. They actually TAKE THE TIME to rip Kerry, whereas Bush makes it for them. That means definite attempts at centrism.
Why would I care about Bush? It's just that Jon Stewart is acting like some prophet and the time spent on Bush are all obvious jokes. The guy in Florida was GOLD, but "Bush is a warmonger dummy!" ...is a little old. The overall message last night was "Bush Admin is insane liars" and "I wish the democrats could find someone better than Kerry". If you lean one way or the other, which way would you be leaning by those statements? Just because someone wants the Daily Show to not be redundant doesn't mean they are rightwing nutjobs. It means they want entertainment from their comedy fake news show!
Furthermore, the congressman was trying to say "we want Kerry to be honest about where he stands" and Jon was saying "He was only the most liberal according to last year." Okay, so how is Jon's point relevant to the congressman's point of Kerry not being straightforward? So Kerry has been more liberal now(which is more important, Clinton was not the same democrat he was when first elected than when re-elected. He became more mid-road to get votes. What you will do to get elected matters more than what you did before with a President today.), but all that says is that Kerry has made liberal moves according to some data gathering. It has nothing to do with the waffling on his part and him just being straight up. If Jon's point is that Kerry changes a lot and the Liberal is just now then that only proves the congressman's point. In the end it was just a mess, a mess that wasted a lot of time over saying "The National Journal". A mess that made no point and people are acting like it did? Okay, so the information only reflects the last year. What does that have to do with what the congressman is saying?
etiolate said:
The point was that the congressman said that people in general, Kerry in particular, should be open and honest. Jon asked him a simple question and the congressman was not open and honest in his response. Arguing that the data is for only the most recent year became secondary at this point.
ConfusingJazz
Member
Jon Stewart seemed to be making a subtle point, that the talking points never mentioned their sources. Jon knew where they got them, and just was trying to get the Rep to say them with easily leading questions, like who complies it? He finally got fed up with the congress men trying to run circles around the questions and shot it at him point blank that he already knew the answer. If he had just gone, the blah blah, he would not have been owned.
The press has two responsibilities:
1) To report the news.
2) To be the watchdog of the people.
The media shouldnt try to be impartial.. they should be constantly putting every policy decision under a microscope. Most of their ideas of 'impartiality' involve interviewing someone from either side of an arguement.. great, now we get two spinsters blowing air up our asses.
1) To report the news.
2) To be the watchdog of the people.
The media shouldnt try to be impartial.. they should be constantly putting every policy decision under a microscope. Most of their ideas of 'impartiality' involve interviewing someone from either side of an arguement.. great, now we get two spinsters blowing air up our asses.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
For all that are crying a river about how the Daily Show is becoming Liberal Central:
A Republican is in the White House so that in itself deserves more attention. The President always gets the most attention. The 'Liberal Media' didn't stop with the jokes once Clinton put his dick in that chicks mouth. It kinda comes off as wine and cheese when you start crying about how our President that assaults the English language on a daily basis and constantly makes controversial decisons gets laughed at every now and again. I saw a few other jokes about Kerry tonite and about the DNC but I guess it's still a liberal show cuz it's the media. :rollseye
What kinda late night comedy show doesn't make fun of the president? The O'Reilly Factor. Oops.
A Republican is in the White House so that in itself deserves more attention. The President always gets the most attention. The 'Liberal Media' didn't stop with the jokes once Clinton put his dick in that chicks mouth. It kinda comes off as wine and cheese when you start crying about how our President that assaults the English language on a daily basis and constantly makes controversial decisons gets laughed at every now and again. I saw a few other jokes about Kerry tonite and about the DNC but I guess it's still a liberal show cuz it's the media. :rollseye
What kinda late night comedy show doesn't make fun of the president? The O'Reilly Factor. Oops.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
It's relevant because the congressman was saying that Kerry should be honest about being so liberal. Jon was pointing out that he's not really as liberal as people like the congressman would have us believe.etiolate said:
Let's say my family eats only hamburgers and hot dogs for a month, and keeps track of how many everyone ate each day. If someone then claims that I should own up to being a hot dog maniac because I ate the most yesterday... that's just taking a skewed view on things. The numbers are going to vary. Though we don't have the numbers for all the years available here, we can see that in the past 5 years Kerry went from 16th to 20th to 11th to 9th to 1st. I doubt this was a true noticeable shift each year, but rather depending on what bills were up for vote, which ones a person actually voted in, which ones the National Journal chose to count, and how truly you can consider usually complex bills to flat out count towards either a "liberal" or "conservative" tally.
Now if only Jon would get the opportunity to easily explain the $87 billion issue.
I didn't really see the congressman's point as being "Kerry is Super Liberal!" just that he needs to just stick to something. If the rapid response show painted Kerry as such then that's different.
PS: There is a psychological difference between mocking/attacking a president's policies and mocking a president's behavior(sexual in this case). One is vote costly, one is not. That's another big headache not worth getting into though.
PS: There is a psychological difference between mocking/attacking a president's policies and mocking a president's behavior(sexual in this case). One is vote costly, one is not. That's another big headache not worth getting into though.
ConfusingJazz
Member
The audience is so slanted is because its filmed in New York City. You will notice that of most shows filmed there.
The show's studio audience is made up mostly of college students who worked for the Dean campaign and have read Chomsky. They're the ones who are into politics enough to actually get tickets and go to NY.
The TV audience is a lot more spread around, and is the primary news source for a bunch of young people who are probably socially liberal (in terms of being tolerant for gays and pursuing threesomes) but are generally turned off by partisan politics. It's why people from both parties use the show to try to reach an untapped demographic.
etioliate: The congressman said Kerry was the most liberal senator, so yeah, "Kerry is super liberal" was his point. "The most liberal ticket" has become a pretty common talking point among Republican politicians.
And if sexual behavior can't be vote-costly, Jack Ryan should really get back into the race.
The TV audience is a lot more spread around, and is the primary news source for a bunch of young people who are probably socially liberal (in terms of being tolerant for gays and pursuing threesomes) but are generally turned off by partisan politics. It's why people from both parties use the show to try to reach an untapped demographic.
etioliate: The congressman said Kerry was the most liberal senator, so yeah, "Kerry is super liberal" was his point. "The most liberal ticket" has become a pretty common talking point among Republican politicians.
And if sexual behavior can't be vote-costly, Jack Ryan should really get back into the race.
videogamer
Banned
etiolate said:
Actually the anecdotal information I have tells me that people did decide against Clinton because of his morality. IIRC, this is also demonstrated in polls which indicated that Clinton's sexual escapades damaged his reputation among certain voters. Having people make fun of it would only worsen the effect. People vote for various reasons... policies not always being the only criteria.
The Daily Show is a liberal show that takes potshots at Bush. But they stick it to Kerry too. I think they try and find anything funny and just rip on it. But to be fair, they rip Bush more than Kerry. But that's to be expected on a liberal show. I watch Daily Show b/c for a "fake" news show, they do a lot more expose stuff on the media and politicians. Like showing back to back clips of Cheney and Kerry and Bush whenever they contradict themselves. The Bush vs Bush segments were my favorites. Self-ownage. PEACE.
Xenon
Member
haha man this is good stuff. Of course it is biased, but that doesn't mean he is not making good points.
This model was invented by Rush. Find stupid things the other side does and present it in an entertaining manor.
To say Bush & the Republicans are the only ones doing and saying stupid things is foolish.
This model was invented by Rush. Find stupid things the other side does and present it in an entertaining manor.
To say Bush & the Republicans are the only ones doing and saying stupid things is foolish.
Mike Works
Member
It is true that they rip on Bush more than Kerry.
But if Kerry were to win this November's election, do you think they'd still rip on Bush/Republicans more so in the following years?
But if Kerry were to win this November's election, do you think they'd still rip on Bush/Republicans more so in the following years?
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
did no one watch this show when Clinton was President?
John is obviously a liberal, but he rips into everyone,a nd now that he's gained a lot in the way of interviews, he's not affraid to ask people questions.
This guy was on the republican response team, he should know the facts, The republicans have made it a point to call Kerry "the most liberal", and I think it's a fair question to ask who's list says that. This guy goes on about being honest, but skirts arround that one simple question, I don't blame John for ripping into him.
John is obviously a liberal, but he rips into everyone,a nd now that he's gained a lot in the way of interviews, he's not affraid to ask people questions.
This guy was on the republican response team, he should know the facts, The republicans have made it a point to call Kerry "the most liberal", and I think it's a fair question to ask who's list says that. This guy goes on about being honest, but skirts arround that one simple question, I don't blame John for ripping into him.
Xenon
Member
I never said it always was or always will be. I'm just saying now the show is biased. It is. It's beyond obvious that they pick guests, conduct interviews, and create skits to make an ass out of Bush & Co. If its such a bitter pill to swallow, you can grab a big glass of pinko-commie leftist punch to wash it down.
I am in no way saying this is a bad thing. Its a great show. I try to watch it every night.
I am in no way saying this is a bad thing. Its a great show. I try to watch it every night.
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