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[#Phonepunk#]

So for years we have heard about this "Lucasfilm story group" a select group of people chosen to maintain continuity throughout the Di$ney Star Wars product line. Ever since they banned the old EU from canon, they made it so that everything released is on the same canon. That means films, tv, tie in novels, video games, etc. all go through this group. This group supposedly addressees continuity errors and keeps things all together. Even "subversive" and "bold" indie filmmaker Rian Johnson had to feed his script through the group for approval.

So who are these people? You would think they would be longtime Lucasfilm keepers of the flame, old heads from the days of the prequels and special edition. Or perhaps they were EU writers who had proven themselves time and time again at keeping names and facts straight within an ever convoluted timeline. Or maybe just highly talented writers?

Guess again, they were all relative newbies!

I just dug into this stuff last week after the news that Rian Johnson hired Kiri Hart to his T-Street studio as a producer. I found out she had a lot to do with the plot of TLJ and started looking into actually who she is. I was pretty shocked at just how barebones the resumes for all these "story group" members was. KK reportedly took race and gender into consideration but seemingly very little else, and handed the keys to the kingdom to these people who have collectively done very little with their careers. As taken from reddit:

-- snip --

"The Lucasfilm Storygroup:

Let's start with the head of the Story Group: Kiri Hart.

Kiri Hart's experience is... to say the least... lacking. Her writing credentials are: 1 episode of Crossing Jordan in 2003 and 1 episode of 1-800-Missing also in 2003. She worked as a story editor on 7 episodes of Crossing Jordan in 2003, and then nothing is listed on her IMDB until 2014 when she earned a credit on a Phineas and Ferb Star Wars special. I have absolutely no idea why this person was chosen to lead the new Lucasfilm Story Group that would be in charge of continuity and crafting the overarching stories between the trilogies and stand alone films. Not only did she never work on anything Star Wars, but she only ever wrote TWO EPISODES OF TELEVISION 9 YEARS BEFORE BEING HIRED BY KATHLEEN KENNEDY. WTF.....

Here is a 2017 New York Times article about Kiri Hart and the Story Group. This part stood out to me:

Kathleen Kennedy founded the group in 2012 when she succeeded George Lucas as president of Lucasfilm, putting Kiri Hart, a former film and TV writer, in charge of the unit. Ms. Hart’s first move was to make the story group entirely female, starting with Rayne Roberts and Carrie Beck. Both women had experience in film development but had also worked in other arenas — Ms. Roberts in magazine publishing, and Ms. Beck with the Sundance Institute.

I am seriously speechless learning that Kiri's primary criteria for choosing people to hire for the Story Group was their gender.

Let's take a look next at Kiri Hart's first two hires: Rayne Roberts and Carrie Beck.

Rayne Roberts IMDB states that her experience (prior to Story Group) was as an assistant to someone on a movie called Life As We Know It and as an associate producer for a 2008 documentary called The Fair Trade. That's it, nothing else before joining the Lucasfilm Story Group.

Carrie Beck's experience isn't any better. Her only experience listed on IMDB before joining the Story Group was as an executive producer for a made for TV movie in 2010 called Ghosts/Aliens. That's all. Pretty weak "experience in film development" as the New York Times article put it.

So let's go on and take a look at the rest of the Lucasfilm Storygroup members.

Up next is Diana Williams. No experience listed at all prior to joining the Lucasfilm Story Group.

Leland Chee has the most experience with Star Wars prior to joining the LSG (Lucasfilm Story Group). His experience with Star Wars was as a GAME TESTER IN 1998 as well as working in Lucasfilm Licensing in 2006. Not exactly a writer, but at least this person had some experience working on Star Wars projects, even if it was just testing video games in the 90s.

Pablo Hidalgo is the most well known name in the LSG but his credentials aren't any better than his peers. His experience prior to joining the LSG was as an uncredited visual artist on 3 projects in 1999 and 2000. Then he played an uncredited extra in Revenge of the Sith in 2005 then that's it before joining the LSG. Pretty weak credentials for someone who is supposed to be in charge of crafting large overarching stories and maintaining consistency as well as dealing with the public via social media. He had no experience in any of those things before joining the LSG.

Next up is Matt Martin he has no credits on IMDB, so it's pretty safe to assume he had no writing, story or Star Wars experience prior to joining the LSG.

Steve Blank had no experience prior to joining the LSG.

James Waugh has no IMDB listing so we're going to assume he had no experience prior to LSG.

Josh Rimes is one of the more experienced members of the LSG having worked as a producer on Bojack Horseman and The Booth at the End in 2010 and 2014 as well as working as a "logger" and "production secretary" for Curb Your Enthusiasm and a series called Smith in the 00s. At least this guy had some notable experience in the entertainment world before joining the LSG. He also wrote 1 television episode of a show called Stranger Adventures in 2006. This makes him the only other member of the Lucasfilm Story Group who has actually written anything besides Kiri Hart. The sum total of their writing credentials are 3 television episodes in the 00s............ wtf.......

Next we have Stephen Feder who has no IMDB listing so he probably had no experience before LSG.

Last but not least comes Cara Pardo who had no experience before joining the LSG and her only credits are as herself in The Star Wars After Show as well as an extra on The Star Wars show. She is listed as an executive assistant for the LSG so she probably is getting lunch for people like Kiri Hart, Rayne Roberts and Carrie Beck and she probably isn't very involved in the story or creative direction of Star Wars.

That's it, there's your Lucasfilm Story Group and their collective experience."

So yeah, it's insane to hand the keys to a 4 billion dollar kingdom to a bunch of nobodies who wrote maybe a few episodes of tv between them. Alas, that's what happened. Is it no wonder the state of things is in such a mess?

PS. Here is an even longer Reddit post that goes deep into this:

 

[Gifmaker]

That's pretty shady, considering their hiring methods. Also, considering TLJ, you can tell that this Story Group doesn't do too great a job. Hyperspace-blasting ships into one another and such.

 

[James Holden]

The only member of the group whose contributions I've majorly questioned is Kiri Hart herself. She left a year or so ago, but she's signed on with Rian Johnson's studio now, lol.

I like the new Star Wars movies but there's no denying they'd be better with a stronger writing team.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

not sure what to make of their influence, per se. i am not suggesting they are writing things but they do obv have pick of what stories get chosen and what gets ignored. perhaps a more qualified writing team would ask much needed questions of people like Rian Johnson, who apparently they just let do anything they wanted. mostly they seem to be there for marketing, remind people to include these tie in characters (i bet the dice in TLJ was their one note), avoid leaking any material for the large projects, project planning & coordinating releases, etc.

so they were busy with marketing rather than story crafting. for that they took a hands off approach. it was part of that "pass the baton" approach, which is just another way of saying you have no plan. they let the directors drive the story because none of them were strong storytellers to begin with (witness the bare credentials). they let the directors do what they wanted, to the peril of a number of permanently lost or otherwise compromised films.

letting one person write/direct is not the way to go IMO. Lucas always worked best with multiple points of view, whether it be his wife, the advice of filmmakers like Speilberg & Scorcese, sci fi pioneer Leigh Brackett, film teacher Irvin Kirshner, etc. the new people are off the leash, so they either are just the kind of people who naturally do stories the team wants to promote (RJ's trolling psuedo feminist "subversion" clearly marketable to KK & story group) or they are fired, like Colin and the GOT boys, and the many other people sacrificed for these crappy movies.

 

[ManaByte]

The story group doesn’t write anything though. So blaming them for issues people have with the stories is pretty stupid.

They basically coordinate things so there are as few canon contradictions as possible across the shows, comics, games, novels, and theme parks. It’s not perfect though and the people on it have areas they focus on.

For example, one person not listed above mainly works with the comics, theme parks, and games. That’s why the lightsaber parts from Galaxy’s Edge are in Jedi Fallen Order.

 

[Kadayi]

The story group doesn’t write anything though. So blaming them for issues people have with the stories is pretty stupid.

I guess the point is they should be there to say 'Yeah you can't fly a ship at light speed into a star destroyer because it breaks the established laws of the existing canon and undermines what's gone before'

 

[ManaByte]

I guess the point is they should be there to say 'Yeah you can't fly a ship at light speed into a star destroyer because it breaks the established laws of the existing canon and undermines what's gone before'

Except it doesn’t. They did that in Clone Wars.

 

[Kadayi]

Except it doesn’t. They did that in Clone Wars.

Two wrongs doesn't make a right, when it usurps the film canon

Episode 4

'Oh noes the death stars coming'

'Fire up the remote ships and warp into it'

End of film

 

[ManaByte]

Two wrongs doesn't make a right, when it usurps the film canon

Episode 4

'Oh noes the death stars coming'

'Fire up the remote ships and warp into it'

End of film

Clone Wars is 100% canon though.

 

[Kadayi]

Clone Wars is 100% canon though.

Repeatedly saying it's canon doesn't make it any less absurd an idea. within the context of what's come before Weaponizing Lightspeed essentially undermines the idea of peril.

 

[TylersProphecy4.0]

So for years we have heard about this "Lucasfilm story group" a select group of people chosen to maintain continuity throughout the Di$ney Star Wars product line. Ever since they banned the old EU from canon, they made it so that everything released is on the same canon. That means films, tv, tie in novels, video games, etc. all go through this group. This group supposedly addressees continuity errors and keeps things all together. Even "subversive" and "bold" indie filmmaker Rian Johnson had to feed his script through the group for approval.

So who are these people? You would think they would be longtime Lucasfilm keepers of the flame, old heads from the days of the prequels and special edition. Or perhaps they were EU writers who had proven themselves time and time again at keeping names and facts straight within an ever convoluted timeline. Or maybe just highly talented writers?

Guess again, they were all relative newbies!

I just dug into this stuff last week after the news that Rian Johnson hired Kiri Hart to his T-Street studio as a producer. I found out she had a lot to do with the plot of TLJ and started looking into actually who she is. I was pretty shocked at just how barebones the resumes for all these "story group" members was. KK reportedly took race and gender into consideration but seemingly very little else, and handed the keys to the kingdom to these people who have collectively done very little with their careers. As taken from reddit:

-- snip --

"The Lucasfilm Storygroup:

Let's start with the head of the Story Group: Kiri Hart.

Kiri Hart's experience is... to say the least... lacking. Her writing credentials are: 1 episode of Crossing Jordan in 2003 and 1 episode of 1-800-Missing also in 2003. She worked as a story editor on 7 episodes of Crossing Jordan in 2003, and then nothing is listed on her IMDB until 2014 when she earned a credit on a Phineas and Ferb Star Wars special. I have absolutely no idea why this person was chosen to lead the new Lucasfilm Story Group that would be in charge of continuity and crafting the overarching stories between the trilogies and stand alone films. Not only did she never work on anything Star Wars, but she only ever wrote TWO EPISODES OF TELEVISION 9 YEARS BEFORE BEING HIRED BY KATHLEEN KENNEDY. WTF.....

Here is a 2017 New York Times article about Kiri Hart and the Story Group. This part stood out to me:


I am seriously speechless learning that Kiri's primary criteria for choosing people to hire for the Story Group was their gender.

Let's take a look next at Kiri Hart's first two hires: Rayne Roberts and Carrie Beck.

Rayne Roberts IMDB states that her experience (prior to Story Group) was as an assistant to someone on a movie called Life As We Know It and as an associate producer for a 2008 documentary called The Fair Trade. That's it, nothing else before joining the Lucasfilm Story Group.

Carrie Beck's experience isn't any better. Her only experience listed on IMDB before joining the Story Group was as an executive producer for a made for TV movie in 2010 called Ghosts/Aliens. That's all. Pretty weak "experience in film development" as the New York Times article put it.

So let's go on and take a look at the rest of the Lucasfilm Storygroup members.

Up next is Diana Williams. No experience listed at all prior to joining the Lucasfilm Story Group.

Leland Chee has the most experience with Star Wars prior to joining the LSG (Lucasfilm Story Group). His experience with Star Wars was as a GAME TESTER IN 1998 as well as working in Lucasfilm Licensing in 2006. Not exactly a writer, but at least this person had some experience working on Star Wars projects, even if it was just testing video games in the 90s.

Pablo Hidalgo is the most well known name in the LSG but his credentials aren't any better than his peers. His experience prior to joining the LSG was as an uncredited visual artist on 3 projects in 1999 and 2000. Then he played an uncredited extra in Revenge of the Sith in 2005 then that's it before joining the LSG. Pretty weak credentials for someone who is supposed to be in charge of crafting large overarching stories and maintaining consistency as well as dealing with the public via social media. He had no experience in any of those things before joining the LSG.

Next up is Matt Martin he has no credits on IMDB, so it's pretty safe to assume he had no writing, story or Star Wars experience prior to joining the LSG.

Steve Blank had no experience prior to joining the LSG.

James Waugh has no IMDB listing so we're going to assume he had no experience prior to LSG.

Josh Rimes is one of the more experienced members of the LSG having worked as a producer on Bojack Horseman and The Booth at the End in 2010 and 2014 as well as working as a "logger" and "production secretary" for Curb Your Enthusiasm and a series called Smith in the 00s. At least this guy had some notable experience in the entertainment world before joining the LSG. He also wrote 1 television episode of a show called Stranger Adventures in 2006. This makes him the only other member of the Lucasfilm Story Group who has actually written anything besides Kiri Hart. The sum total of their writing credentials are 3 television episodes in the 00s............ wtf.......

Next we have Stephen Feder who has no IMDB listing so he probably had no experience before LSG.

Last but not least comes Cara Pardo who had no experience before joining the LSG and her only credits are as herself in The Star Wars After Show as well as an extra on The Star Wars show. She is listed as an executive assistant for the LSG so she probably is getting lunch for people like Kiri Hart, Rayne Roberts and Carrie Beck and she probably isn't very involved in the story or creative direction of Star Wars.

That's it, there's your Lucasfilm Story Group and their collective experience."



So yeah, it's insane to hand the keys to a 4 billion dollar kingdom to a bunch of nobodies who wrote maybe a few episodes of tv between them. Alas, that's what happened. Is it no wonder the state of things is in such a mess?

PS. Here is an even longer Reddit post that goes deep into this:

All of this basically explains every weird, off feeling I've had about star wars since acquired by disney.

What a fucking joke, but hey, not MY 4+ billion...jesus fucking christ, disney are idiocy incarnate right now, literally living by the hope that throwing enough money at something will "fix" it. Nope. Just breaking it more, over and over again, probably never able to be reassembled or brought back fo former glory, at least not without actually, ya know, forming some sort of overlaying plan for the story. Literally, as far as I can tell, not only are these people inexperienced, but they are also probably getting fat percentage checks for basically doing nothing also. It's all endemic of corporate overspending and can be seen in many other facets of industry but really, as the company they are, disney should be smarter than this.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Blaming them is not stupid just because they don’t write stories. That is the problem, they don’t have a strong voice, maybe if they had spoken up about certain obviously controversial things then it would have turned out differently. If Rian came in wanting to troll then a strong story group may have said “don’t throw away Snoke we have a great third act for him” or “maybe hitting the main hero audiences have been waiting 30 years to see in the back of the head is an unlikable and cowardly move that may upset fans”. His ideas weren’t challenged.

I don’t see how anyone can be against having MORE story ideas tossed around. Things like “sacred Jedi text” (that is what it is called in the final script?) give the appearance of it all being slapdash first draft ideas and it’s interesting to see why. It seems like they sat around green lighting tie ins.

 

[jason10mm]

Seems pretty obvious to me that this "story group" isnt doing anything with respect to overall plot. JJ was allowed to invent shit with no clear purpose and RJ was allowed to shit all over it with no clear purpose. Add in the partial and near total refilming of R1 and Solo for tone and story reasons shows me there is no central control or monitoring of jack squat. JJ hopefully got a truckload of cash to come back and unfuck things but I doubt he will do anything but slap a GOT season 8 style "wrap it up, bitches!" ending just so everyone can move on.

They couldn't even get the toy line right. No new iconic ships, droids, aliens, or weapons. Boring!

 

[Porcile]

It says a lot about this franchise that not even George Lucas was the right person to take Star Wars forward. It begs the question who is and why are they bothering except for money. Hopefully Episode 9 is the end of Star Wars for a long time.

 

[GV82]

With Regards to Pablo I think I heard or he said he used to do a lot of lore type books unofficial maybe or fanzines or maybe a lore database online, something like that when the EU was in before the Prequel era, but I could be mistaken not saying I agree or disagree with the way he behaves since he joined Lucasfilm or how he is on social media but that’s all I am aware of what he did pre Prequel era, the rest of the story group I don’t know much about though.

It says a lot about this franchise that not even George Lucas was the right person to take Star Wars forward. It begs the question who is and why are they bothering except for money. Hopefully Episode 9 is the end of Star Wars for a long time.

Episode 9 is just the end of the DeathStar Saga.

The Mandalorian has just started and it’s better than the recent films to me.

Then we are getting Obi Wan, Cassian & K2 Maybe knights of the Old Republic (Unless That turns out to be a Cinematic Trilogy) I think i’ll stick to TV Star Wars personally with my member berries because that’s what I want right now Fromm Star Wars and let Cinematic Star Wars be for whoever wants to watch that new confusing stuff that feels more Battlestar Galatia or Trek than it does Star Wars, if anyone here likes the direction they are going & liked TLJ have at it by all means, but that’s not for me.

 

[Punished Miku]

This sad resume almost makes me respect Rian Johnson. I mean ... he's almost completely destroyed Star Wars, but he's still not as pathetic as the Lucasfilm Story Group.

 

[Gifmaker]

Clone Wars is 100% canon though.

The problem is not that hyperspace ramming shouldn't be a thing at all, because logically, it could and absolutely should. But like so many other things, TLJ just turned that up to 11, sadly. One ship hyperjumping into another should definitely do serious damage, but the way the movie depicts it, one cruiser jumps into Snoke's flagship and in the process, not only gets the flagship devastated, but up to 8 other, "regular sized" FO Star Destroyers. That is just literal overkill. If you present consequences of that magnitude, then there is a valid argument to be made why this tactic does not get used more often. Why the rebels don't hyperram into the Death Stars, especially over Endor when they are seemingly trapped in a death trap. And the ST's writing is like that a lot. Why can you hyperjump through planetary shields in TFA suddenly? Then why did the rebels on Hoth had to open their shields to let their transports get away, risking exposing themselves to Imperial fire? Why not just hyperjump through the shield right out of the planet's atmosphere (a maneuver that is new as well)? Why allow a villain without any explanation or backstory like Snoke to appear, when it begs an explanation for where he came from and how he could exist when previous films made it pretty clear that the Imperial regime actively hunted down force users that Palpatine did not ally with? And just for the record, I fully expect there to be some kind of background exposition for Snoke in TROS happen, but I also suspect that Rian Johnson would not have cared either way.

So, for all these questions and a thousand more, there is a dedicated story group whose sole reason to exist is to ensure that questions like these to not get raised or at the very least, get responsibly answered. And as of this moment, that very group fails spectacularly in that regard.

 

[Dazrael]

It’s obvious that Rian Johnson doesn’t know what Chekhov’s Gun is otherwise in the hands of another creator we would have found out who Snoke was.

I’d be very surprised if his backstory isn’t explained in TROS. If it isn’t then JJ, Johnson and this Story Group don’t understand one of the fundamental aspects of fiction.

 

[IntentionalPun]

"First thing she did was make it all female".... list is mostly dudes...

Huh?

The Lucasfilm Story Group is a division of Lucasfilm Ltd. founded in 2013 that is responsible for keeping track of Star Wars canon in order to assist writers and directors in the development of new stories.[1] As of May 2017, the group comprises eleven individuals.[2]

And why would these people need writing experience? And how do you know they aren't huge Star Wars nerds? There are people with loads of Star Wars imdb credits that know less about the stories than big nerds of the material.

 

[RokkanStoned]

"First thing she did was make it all female".... list is mostly dudes...

Huh?

Isn't that explained by it being expanded and filled with males afterwards? It says "First thing..." and mentions the recruitment of two women.

And why would these people need writing experience? And how do you know they aren't huge Star Wars nerds? There are people with loads of Star Wars imdb credits that know less about the stories than big nerds of the material.

I think the problem here is the question of what the function of the Story Group is and what their actual authority and power is. If they're responsible for keeping lore in check AND able to enforce it, then it's obviously their fault and possibly a reflection of their lack of capability or familiarity with the universe. If they're responsible, but not able to enforce anything, but they never brought it up either, then it's also a question of incompetence. Lastly, if they weren't able to enforce and had brought the problems up, then it's obviously not their fault and it's not a reflection of their capabilities.

 

[DeepEnigma]

This shows in their work.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Isn't that explained by it being expanded and filled with males afterwards? It says "First thing..." and mentions the recruitment of two women.

Such a pointless thing to call out though considering.

I think the problem here is the question of what the function of the Story Group is and what their actual authority and power is. If they're responsible for keeping lore in check AND able to enforce it, then it's obviously their fault and possibly a reflection of their lack of capability or familiarity with the universe. If they're responsible, but not able to enforce anything, but they never brought it up either, then it's also a question of incompetence. Lastly, if they weren't able to enforce and had brought the problems up, then it's obviously not their fault and it's not a reflection of their capabilities.

According to their description all they do is track continuity.... like.. what makes anyone think they have any power?

Everything for their description seems to suggest they get asked to review scripts/games/whatever for continuity issues.. and, nothing else.

Don't get me wrong.. TLJ sucks.. I just don't see WTH that has to do with this group of people.

 

[Southern Gentleman]

It’s obvious that Rian Johnson doesn’t know what Chekhov’s Gun is otherwise in the hands of another creator we would have found out who Snoke was.

I’d be very surprised if his backstory isn’t explained in TROS. If it isn’t then JJ, Johnson and this Story Group don’t understand one of the fundamental aspects of fiction.

JJ is the Mystery Box man. He only cares about the journey. The reddit leak which was seemingly proven correct with the Episode IX trailer mentions that he doesn't even explain how Palpatine is able to come back. Forget about a back story for Snoke.

This trilogy was an utter waste of everyone's time and money and an absurd blight on a once-iconic, dominant franchise.

If you want to see what happens when Disney hires actual writers to work on Star Wars, watch Rogue One or The Mandalorian.

 

[The Elite]

That's pretty shady, considering their hiring methods. Also, considering TLJ, you can tell that this Story Group doesn't do too great a job. Hyperspace-blasting ships into one another and such.

I think anything movie related is out of the story groups hands. If the film writer/director wants to do something it will always take precedence. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same thing with Mandalorian. Bring someone in with more clout than the story group and they can do whatever they want.

 

[June]

It’s obvious that Rian Johnson doesn’t know what Chekhov’s Gun is otherwise in the hands of another creator we would have found out who Snoke was.

I’d be very surprised if his backstory isn’t explained in TROS. If it isn’t then JJ, Johnson and this Story Group don’t understand one of the fundamental aspects of fiction.

LOL at thinking someone with Rians experience and credentials doesn't know what Chekov's Gun is

There are no absolute rules in film and what loose rules do exist are often deliberately broken

 

[Dazrael]

LOL at thinking someone with Rians experience and credentials doesn't know what Chekov's Gun is

There are no absolute rules in film and what loose rules do exist are often deliberately broken

It was slight sarcasm, of course he would know what Chekhov’s Gun is. The question is why introduce something only to discard it when its existence begs explanation. I understand his desire for subversion but leaving a narrative hole looks sloppy.

That’s the problem with media nowadays actually, plot points can be left out only to be taken up in other media elsewhere. No doubt if Snoke’s backstory is left out of the films then it’ll probably be explained in a forgotten novel somewhere. Execs probably think it’s all so clever.

 

[Doom85]

Two wrongs doesn't make a right, when it usurps the film canon

Episode 4

'Oh noes the death stars coming'

'Fire up the remote ships and warp into it'

End of film

I'm pretty sure a Death Star's shields would be strong enough to deflect any incoming ship. Compare to a Super Star Destroy which, while large, is still nowhere near as big as a Death Star and in ROTJ an out-of-control A-Wing smashing into it caused massive damage and took it down.

Also, it's called evasive maneuvers. If Hux hadn't been convinced the ship was just simply retreating as a distraction to lure them away from the escape ships, he likely could have evaded in time. And lightspeed ramming would be insanely risky as a result because as Han pointed out in 4 simply jumping to lightspeed without a set course could easily have you smashing into a planet, moon, asteroid system, etc.

So you think this should be a common tactic despite the enemy likely being able to avoid it and then the ship has a chance of crashing into a planet or other celestial object? Yeah, no, it's pretty obvious why this isn't a common tactic, and it doesn't make sense to act like it's a retcon especially since a similar thing happened in ROTJ.