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The Right to Work From Home Could Be Guaranteed By Law in Germany
cryptoadam
Banned
Thats what PS5 and PSVR is for.
And the power of the SSD will allow low input lag when you try and swerve from hitting that old lady crossing the street.
Tesseract
Banned
neither rights nor freedom, this
liberty for security is a mistake every single time
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Amory
Member
I don't think as many managers give a shit about counting the arbitrary 40 hours of work/week anymore. That's pretty old school thinking.
Generally speaking, it's a chore to work with or manage someone who works from home even if they're good at their job. They're just inherently not as available. So you're either stuck scheduling calls with them every time you want to talk, or waiting for their IM availability to turn green. It's inefficient even if you totally discount the social value of face to face interactions.
It's also not easy at most modern companies to just fire someone if they're slacking. Most HR/Legal teams want a lot of justification, evidence, documented warnings, etc. And justifiably so. But any office has its share of people who have learned where the bare minimum line is and are careful to stay just beyond it so they can stay employed. Giving every employee the opportunity to work from home as much as they want, regardless of tenure or reputation muddies that water.
WFH should definitely be more prevalent when things start up again. I'm fine with governments mandating it as long as there's a public health crisis going on, but after that we should leave it to companies to implement as appropriate for their own business.
Moogle11
Banned
Like I said, some jobs just aren’t as easy to move to work at home. If people are regularly needing to meet with bosses and coworkers, do work in teams, or generally need “managed,” then it’s harder to work remotely. Other positions are people working independently almost all the time and little is lost If they go remote (or at least more days remote). Though with things like MS Teams and similar remote work and managing is getting easier all the time.
I do lean toward just leaving it to businesses to realize they got as much or more work from at least some employees working from home and to be more flexible in their policies going forward. My main hang up with any requirements is it’s very hard to define what is “feasible” to work from home across companies.
I agree with some others that its better to offer incentives (i.e. payroll tax breaks) for allowing employees to work from home. There are a lot of social benefits to it like less traffic and pollution, better health from less stress and more free time due to more workers not having long commutes, smaller offices (lower energy use, some office buildings can be converted to apartments/condos to help housing supply) etc. That’s worth incentivizing IMO, but difficult to require or regulate.
llien
Member
Is it about seeing your desktop, or even video of you?
lock2k
Banned
No, not really.
They force several daily meetings and keep sending e-mails and text messages at any time to see if you are paying attention. While at the office I worked largely unsupervised most of the time and had like 3 meetings per month. It fucking sucks. And they have random demands just to see if you can do them quickly.
The Scrivener
Member
SKM1
Member
It seems to me that if an employer is coerced into allowing someone to work remotely he will probably do these things out of spite.
rykomatsu
Member
Or...or...or...y'like know...maybe I could just opt not to work at that company. Candidates have choices you know.
spectyre
Member
I heard the same thing about the EU 15 years ago.
And when people talk about worker's rights, everyone says why can't we be more like China and India?
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Patrick S.
Banned
Meanwhile a lady at my company who was doing an "Ausbildung" (German way of learning a job) was fired the other day, because she strongly demanded to be allowed to work in the home office from our boss, in front of several other colleagues. Like "I have a right to work from home because I have children!", in a harsh tone. Well, my boss basically told her she can stay at home all the time she wants now...
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D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
"Everyone who wants to and whose job allows it"
Sadly, I imagine enshrining this as a "right" in law will make a lot of companies just cease allowing working from home as an option.
Leave this shit up to the free market. Most of the developed world's offices are already moving in that direction. No one needs the government stepping in and demanding things be done a certain way when it comes to this issue.
Sadly, I imagine enshrining this as a "right" in law will make a lot of companies just cease allowing working from home as an option.
Leave this shit up to the free market. Most of the developed world's offices are already moving in that direction. No one needs the government stepping in and demanding things be done a certain way when it comes to this issue.
lock2k
Banned
This is exactly what I think they do.
Djau
Banned
If it was really that simple; all labor issues would have been solved already. The employer holds all the cards and there aren't enough jobs that a person can just walk from one into another.
This is why Unions are critical to society.
Free market hasn't solved shit. Folks in america are working themselves to death on two jobs to pay bills; while abroad you only need one thanks to rights enshrined in law to protect the employee from exploitative employers.
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D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Ain't nobody in a cushy office job that can be done from home "working themselves to death" to pay the bills, and if they are, it's only because of the life choices they made (borrow money in order to live well above their means, etc.).
Now, I'm not against worker rights, but jobs perks like this should never need to be legally enshrined. They should be part of the employer's offering to attract talent.
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Djau
Banned
Thats way too much power for Employers and has empirically not shown any benefit for the worker.
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D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It's too much power to be able to require people come into the office when deemed necessary? Nah, fuck that.
Djau
Banned
That's the important part. Noone says they couldn't go in the odd day. But we must start with flexible working as a minimum with either the choice to work at home as standard if available to the job type; or extra benefits in exchange for having to come in.
Makes the company more competitive, productive and better-suited for the future disasters of further epidemics, climate change, etc.
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rykomatsu
Member
It is that simple - you either take the job or you don't. The only reason the employer "holds" all the cards is because candidates find the risk acceptable.
Unions are for people that otherwise wouldn't be able to hold a non-unionized job.
Tell me another economic model that has raised as many people out of poverty as free market / capitalism has.
Tesseract
Banned
At-will employment - Wikipedia
the only way to fly
don't like it, go work somewhere else
Djau
Banned
Every EU country says hi.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
That's why it shouldn't be made as a law, because you need to very clearly define things when it's a law and you can't really leave room for arbitrary decisions about the constitutes "the odd day." Leave it up to arrangements between employers and employees. People will always choose companies that offer better work environments and accommodate the lifestyles of their employees, so companies will need to adapt to stay competitive. No need to force anything with laws in this case.
Djau
Banned
Downside of that is now you end up with backwards noncompetitive country plus you leave the employees as the ones being fucked over.
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Papa
Banned
Material conditional - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
One of the jobs of a goverment is to ensure balance. The employer is in a stronger position. You need laws to prevent exploitations of employees.
Legislature, executive, judiciary ... Sue your employer. Afterwards he will find a way to get rid of you, but you will find another job and he will get his punishment.
For fuck’s sake, being required to do your job in the workplace instead of the home is not worker exploitation
What the fuck happened to you Germans? You used to have teeth.P.S. wb bro, how you been, yadda yadda
Papa
Banned
I retract my previous statement. This is the most ignorant statement I’ve ever seen. Also an epic strawman. No one said that government shouldn’t be involved in changing laws, rather that this particular law is idiotic and not something government should be sticking its nose into.
lmao
Papa
Banned
Which research?
Djau
Banned
A Green Office Equals A Productive Office
A recent Harvard study finds that greenery in the office makes people more productive. It joins a number of previous studies highlighting similar findings, but are facilities managers going green as a result?
www.forbes.com
Why Remote Workers Are More Productive
Working from home can increase employees' productivity. Here's how you and your team can make the most of working remotely and manage work relationships.
Can working from home increase employee productivity?
Research shows that working from home can increase employee productivity. We explore the reasons behind this, as well as why it's good for business.
www.breathehr.com
To Raise Productivity, Let More Employees Work from Home
The study: Nicholas Bloom and graduate student James Liang, who is also a cofounder of the Chinese travel website Ctrip, gave the staff at Ctrip’s call center the opportunity to volunteer to work from home for nine months. Half the volunteers were allowed to telecommute; the rest remained in the...
hbr.org
Papa
Banned
A Green Office Equals A Productive Office
A recent Harvard study finds that greenery in the office makes people more productive. It joins a number of previous studies highlighting similar findings, but are facilities managers going green as a result?
Why Remote Workers Are More Productive
Working from home can increase employees' productivity. Here's how you and your team can make the most of working remotely and manage work relationships.www.businessnewsdaily.com
Can working from home increase employee productivity?
Research shows that working from home can increase employee productivity. We explore the reasons behind this, as well as why it's good for business.
To Raise Productivity, Let More Employees Work from Home
The study: Nicholas Bloom and graduate student James Liang, who is also a cofounder of the Chinese travel website Ctrip, gave the staff at Ctrip’s call center the opportunity to volunteer to work from home for nine months. Half the volunteers were allowed to telecommute; the rest remained in the...
An Airtasker survey is not research you fucking amoeba
Djau
Banned
An Airtasker survey is not research you fucking amoeba
Green offices make employees happier and more productive: study
People who work in a “green” office, literally surrounded by plants, are happier than people in “lean” offices without live foliage, suggests a new study.
www.reuters.com
Think I'm going to do all the work for you, pleb? Journal article reference is in the article.
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Papa
Banned
Which empirical data?
Papa
Banned
Green offices make employees happier and more productive: study
People who work in a “green” office, literally surrounded by plants, are happier than people in “lean” offices without live foliage, suggests a new study.
Think I'm going to do all the work for you, pleb? Journal article reference is in the article.
lol you absolute moron
I wasn’t disputing your assertion that plants can make people happier in their workplace. I was asking for receipts for your claim that working from home definitively boosts productivity. All you’ve done is link me journalist clickbait garbo.
Arkage
get itt!!!
Djau
Banned
lol you absolute moron
I wasn’t disputing your assertion that plants can make people happier in their workplace. I was asking for receipts for your claim that working from home definitively boosts productivity. All you’ve done is link me journalist clickbait garbo.
Does Working from Home Work? Evidence from a Chinese Experiment
In this case, 13% boost to productivity.
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Papa
Banned
Does Working from Home Work? Evidence from a Chinese Experiment
www.gsb.stanford.edu
In this case, 13% boost to productivity.
One case for a Chinese call center. A job where you can’t easily slack off in a country that punishes slackers harshly. When you’re talking about changing a law, you need to prove that it works in all cases, or at the very least the majority of cases.
How hard have you been googling rn btw? Your quick fire responses show you either had your references all lined up neatly prior to this conversation or you’re just linking me shit you haven’t read and don’t understand.
Djau
Banned
Proof of concept. Leave the rest for the Government to decide. Like I said; not all jobs can do this; but theres no reason a mostly digital office can't. Its not difficult to predict responses.
The jobs that can't will be replaced by automation anyway; like farmers, shop workers, even mine.
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Papa
Banned
You’re skipping over a lot of steps between “proof of concept” and “change the law”
I repeat, go get some real world experience before trying to change it, kiddo
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Goose stepping all up in this bitch, from home.
Moogle11
Banned
I largely agree even as someone strongly supportive of more flexible work options for more people. It’s better to leave it up to workers and employers to sort out.
Hopefully a lot of bosses/owners will see that many of their employees were as or more productive and that they can Save some money by downsizing office space etc. And hopefully workers who are loving it to push for more flexibility and find employers who will give them the work from home vs in office balance they want. I opted for lower (though still nice) income by taking a more flexible career path vs chasing max income in the corporate world and couldn’t be happy. Work-life balance is more important to me once at a level of having job security, a rainy day fund and an ok amount of disposable income.
It’s too complex to codify into law as it’s hard to define what jobs can easily be done remotely and with can’t. You also don’t want to get in the reverse where people who hate working from home are forced to long term. Some people can’t focus, it’s much harder with young kids if one partner is a stay at home parent and the other is trying to work, way harder for people in small houses or apartments without space for a nice home office etc.
it’s just not something that can be as easily standardized as things like,e overtime laws, maternity/paternity leave and so on as it’s near impossible to universally define what jobs can feasibly done remotely.
Another popular lie that is spread everywhere on the internet, but has no basis in reality
Seriously, you need to wake up and live in the real world.
I can't believe people are still spouting this shit when we are literally seeing millions become unemployed.
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Shadowplay1979
Member
Wait...so this guys name on public documents and forms would be ...
Heil Hubertus
sounds about right
Heil Hubertus
sounds about right
Torrent of Pork
Banned
I did work 2 jobs for about a year's time, 7 days a week, and it fucking sucked.
I got a better job, because I'm not retarded!
I got a better job, because I'm not retarded!
Karmic Raze
Member
That’s such a relief for you to confirm that. Now the speculation can stop.
Sakura Doritos
Member
And here I am chomping at the bit to go back to the office.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
In this thread, I learned there are huge differences on how americans and germans see working environments and the relationship between employer and employee...
Personally I'd love this to get through, off course.
I'd wager, though, that this will be detrimental to work efficiency on a larger scale.
Personally I'd love this to get through, off course.
I'd wager, though, that this will be detrimental to work efficiency on a larger scale.
GnomeChimpsky
Member
Haemi
Member
My sentence is a general statement. And i interpreted yours as one too. Being required to do your job in the workplace is no exploitation. And introducing a law to force the employer to allow work from home is unnecessary. There are benefits to working from home, like instead of going into parental leave you could still work for your company. But when you are that important to your employer, then you could negotiate instead of there being some law.For fuck’s sake, being required to do your job in the workplace instead of the home is not worker exploitation
I just didn't like your twisting of arguments to have something to fire back.
Papa
Banned
What twisting? Have you read the arguments of the guy I was responding to?