• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Theres simply not enough talent in this industry. Everyone wants to be in Hollywood. Gaming culture and stereotypes have killed the desire to be a....

Represent.

Member
Then you gonna continue be bored of AAA games while miss out gems because its not AAA high production......and it all on you.

I personally can get excited both AAA games like

And smaller games like
Calisto Protocol looks great. One of my most anticipated games of the remaining year. The other game can fuck off. :messenger_smirking:

its not that i hate gaming, i just think the medium is capable of way more and good young talent chooses hollywood over game design
 

Represent.

Member
Non Argument. Video game development is nothing like movie development. At all. You clearly have never worked a day in this industry and brush it off as a "Lack of talent". It's not a lack of talent. It's never been a lack of talent. It's fucking hilarious to watch YOU, out of all the people on this forum, post that. The guy that was screaming at developers for including 60 FPS modes because "MUH VISUAL FIDELITY!!11". When the MW2 trailer dropped, the very first thing you did was scrutinize the graphics and post how it looks "Worse than the previous one!" based on like two screengrabs. You don't have anywhere near enough knowledge about game development to have anything even remotely approaching a worthwhile opinion on this.
It doesn't matter if development of games is different than movies. They both require talent and budget. Thats all it boils down to. Stop making shitty ass excuses.

I wasn't the only one crapping on the underwhelming graphics of MW2. Theres 9 freaking studios involved and it has a practically unlimited budget, it should be one of, if not THE most impressive looking games ever. Instead it looks just like the last one from 2019... I was pissed off about it being cross gen. Im not so sure what the fuck to think about cross gen anymore, because the vast majority of them look unimpressive...Yet... the best looking shit i've ever seen is Horizon Forbidden West which is also cross gen... So it really boils down to.. You guessed it.. Talent.

You're just an apologist. Excuses for everything. Annoying.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Gold Member
I'm not even sure what your issue with Plucky Squire!? It looks super unique instead of being another "hollywood" style game and I'm not expert when it comes to "GRAPHICS" but visually looks great.

Allow me to potentially translate for OP.

The Plucky Squire, to me, looks phenomenally creative from a visual presentation standpoint. Buuuut, the actual gameplay segments look like standard 2D /3D platformers + hack n slash gameplay. We've choked on these types of games for 30+ years.

Gaming purists view games from a gameplay perspective rather than from a visual presentation standpoint.

The "movie games" criticism can be used on The Plucky Squire as well considering it's the developers asking the player to look how creative they are, rather than them asking the player how creative he or she is.
 

Rykan

Gold Member
It doesn't matter if development of games is different than movies. They both require talent and budget. Thats all it boils down to. Stop making shitty ass excuses.

I wasn't the only one crapping on the underwhelming graphics of MW2. Theres 9 freaking studios involved and it has a practically unlimited budget, it should be one of, if not THE most impressive looking games ever. Instead it looks just like the last one from 2019... I was pissed off about it being cross gen. Im not so sure what the fuck to think about cross gen anymore, because the vast majority of them look unimpressive...Yet... the best looking shit i've ever seen is Horizon Forbidden West which is also cross gen... So it really boils down to.. You guessed it.. Talent.

You're just an apologist. Excuses for everything. Annoying.
Your ignorance is hilarious. Who do you think gets to decide what a game is going to look like? Please say its "designers" so I can make fun of your ignorance some more. Horizon: Forbidden West is a game that is developed from the ground up for 2 different systems. MW is developed for like 5/6 different systems in a much shorter timeframe. It's not even remotely compareable. The fact that you think the only difference between those two games is "TaLenT" shows how utterly clueless you are.
I'm not even sure what your issue with Plucky Squire!? It looks super unique instead of being another "hollywood" style game and I'm not expert when it comes to "GRAPHICS" but visually looks great.
Are you really that surprised that he is "very anticipated" for the space horror game that looks exactly like every other space horror game instead of the game that actually looks unique and different?
 
Last edited:
Allow me to potentially translate for OP.

The Plucky Squire, to me, looks phenomenally creative from a visual presentation standpoint. Buuuut, the actual gameplay segments look like standard 2D /3D platformers + hack n slash gameplay. We've choked on these types of games for 30+ years.

Gaming purists view games from a gameplay perspective rather than from a visual presentation standpoint.

The "movie games" criticism can be used on The Plucky Squire as well considering it's the developers asking the player to look how creative they are, rather than them asking the player how creative he or she is.
Agreed - it’s cute but it’s not something that breaks the mold too much - usually only AAA games are capable of that. GTA 3 broke the mold, Half Life 1 and 2, halo - etc

EDIT: not saying plucky squire doesn’t look awesome because it does
 
Last edited:
I agree with you on 90%, but what u said about jp characters designs...Not really!


 

TheBROgamer

Neo Member
Video Game Developer.

  • Every AAA game looks the same.
  • AAA Games take 5-7 years to make.
  • Everything is a fucking secret.
  • Gaming culture is an embarrassment.
  • There hasn't been any new game mechanics/formulas introduced in AAA gaming since the PS360 era.
  • The PS360 era was the last time game design evolved. Its been the exact same since then with better graphics.
  • Why are 99% of Open World games still following the basic GTA 3 mission structure and design formula?
  • What happened to destructible environments and physics?
  • Why the FUCK does BOTW have some of the best physics in gaming? On that weak ass console?
  • Speaking of graphics, only a few studios actually make great looking games now. 80% of them are under Sony control.
  • Why does every Japanese character-action game look like some anime ass shit with putrid visuals?
  • Why does FROM have amazing art design and shit ass tech? Why can only select few companies achieve both?
  • Why is nothing as cool as the last 40 minutes of Top Gun 2022?
  • Why do so many indie games use the same artstyle?

Where are the talented up and coming game developers?

Where are the Ari Asters, Matt Reeves, Roger Eggers, Jordan Peele, Ryan Coogler, Nia DaCosta, Chloé Zhao, Alex Garland's of the game world? Talented game up and coming directors with ambition and the desire to push the medium forward with great gameplay design, new ideas, and just pure quality?

Better yet, where are the James Camerons, Ridley Scotts, Tarantino's, Christopher Nolan, Alejandro González Iñárritu's, David Fincher, Martin Scorsese's of the game world? World renowned game developers who have produced top quality shit and pushed the medium forward.

Miyamoto is the most famous person the industry has ever seen, but he's stuck making shit for terrible and outdated hardware. Imagine if James Cameron was limited to making movies that could only be viewed on an iPhone screen and shot with a Canon T5i. Thats Miyamoto.

Why is no one trying to develop new gameplay mechanics, better more interactive worlds, new AI, better moment to moment gameplay loops, More visceral and immersive combat??

Why was Ghost of Tsushima praised so much? It had basic ass combat and every single enemy had the same exact death animation, the standoffs were all identical too, and the stealth gameplay was stuck in 2003 with auto-fail missions once your character is seen. Why is "hide in tall grass, throw stone" still the hallmark of every fucking stealth game? Why is everyone still following the same third person cover shooter mechanics that Gears of War introduced in 2006? Why does Starfield look exactly like No Mans Sky? Why is The Last of Us still basically the benchmark for storytelling in games a decade later?

Why can no game make you cry? Or genuinely laugh? Why are there NO new ideas anymore? Why is everything just bigger and not better? Why is everything so ... mediocre.

Fuck.

I guess the medium is still young. But I feel theres simply not enough talent.

So many facts right here.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
While I agree with the sentiment, somewhat - it really rings hollow from you, OP considering a number of the games you love and cherish are the poster children of what you claim is ruining gaming. Some of the most drab, boring, poorly written and shallow titles that you love to claim are some of the best ever made.

It makes you wonder if you even know what talent looks like.
 

Represent.

Member
Your ignorance is hilarious. Who do you think gets to decide what a game is going to look like? Please say its "designers" so I can make fun of your ignorance some more. Horizon: Forbidden West is a game that is developed from the ground up for 2 different systems. MW is developed for like 5/6 different systems in a much shorter timeframe. It's not even remotely compareable. The fact that you think the only difference between those two games is "TaLenT" shows how utterly clueless you are.

Are you really that surprised that he is "very anticipated" for the space horror game that looks exactly like every other space horror game instead of the game that actually looks unique and different?
Bro be quiet. You're like one of the few in here that actually disagrees with me.

If you think everything is fine and dandy in the AAA space, and that its full of innovation, and that MW2 looks miles better than MW 2019, and that game design has seen huge advancements since the PS360 era, and that theres a plethora of talented game directors emerging in the AAA space.. then MORE POWER TO YOU :messenger_loudly_crying::messenger_tears_of_joy:

I cant be that fucking naive.
 
Last edited:

This year just saw the re-release on Switch of one the best narrative experiences in gaming I've had in my life and there was barely a peep about it, if any, here in GAF. If you're not finding any new and exciting experiences, it's because you're not really looking outside of the main AAA releases yourself, mate.
 

Bkdk

Member
Long development cycle is a huge problem. With such long dev process there will always be large part of the game needs to be remade and as some mechanics will become dated. By the time the game is released, there will always be some part of the game that feels dated.
 

Rykan

Gold Member
Bro be quiet. You're like one of the few in here that actually disagrees with me.
It's called a discussion board. If you don't like responses to your half baked and poorly thought out opinions, get out and go start a blog.
If you think everything is fine and dandy in the AAA space, and that its full of innovation, and that MW2 looks miles better than MW 2019, and that game design has seen huge advancements since the PS360 era, and that theres a plethora of talented game directors emerging in the AAA space.. then MORE POWER TO YOU :messenger_loudly_crying::messenger_tears_of_joy:

I cant be that fucking naive.
Thats not the part of your post that I take issue with. The part that I take issue with is the fact that you're blaming the state of Triple A gaming on developers. Every single Triple A game is funded by a publisher. The publisher controls everything. It needs to approve every single aspect of the game .Concept, gameplay, graphic, scope, development time and budget. The rise in graphical demands for video games have increased the cost of development substantially, which means publishers are less willing to take risks on higher investments. The result is that every game needs to look and play similar to already proven formulas in order for the game to be greenlit and get funded.

It has absolutely nothing to do with "Lack of talent". It is a money issue, not a talent issue.

You can complain about the state of the industry all your want, but the fact remains that you and your persistent "NEed BetTeR GrAphIcS!!11" whining are the reason the industry is in the state that it is in.
 
Last edited:
I feel exactly the same......I am an experimental musician and filmmaker and since the beginning of the pandemic Im studying game development like crazy because I want at least try to do something diferent in this industry.

Games have an insane potencial as art and midia but is by far the least interesting one.....its so frustrating.
Wish us luck
 
Cough, there's a shortage of talent in every industry. Truly talented folks are hard to come by. There's a ton of games out there getting creative, stop looking for blockbuster $200 Million dollar games to break the mould.
 
Video Game Developer.

Speaking of graphics, only a few studios actually make great looking games now. 80% of them are under Sony control.
Im never impressed by graphics in a game unless its a Sony Published. Wtf happened here.
Why does every Japanese character-action game look like some anime ass shit with putrid visuals?
I think Capcom doesn’t deserve to be rounded up with that industry.
 

Zelphyr

Gold Member
I checked in here real quick because the cut off thread title made me laugh and I imagined OP like a hippie Jesus in ragged clothes on a soapbox.

Thank God there was no internet when I did shrooms 😃
 

Sosokrates

Gold Member
The rate of improvements is slowing down, but gaming is the best and most affordable its ever been.

I do agree that there needs to be innovations in game development. Having the quality of games like RDR2 and TLOU2 only possible with gigantic budgets and teams, raises expectations for smaller budgeted games.

I kinda feel that alot of framework is being built for the future. While I dont expect massive improvements in visuals this gen, I think smaller games will be able to look as polished as the bigger games of last gen and games as a whole will be more accessible and dynamic.
I think there will be somthing new and vastly popular in the metaverse/fortnite/gta online/ dreams space, where user creation will be come a thing. I think there will be a youtube/instagram/tiktok but in a new videogame form.
 

mxbison

Member
Because Hollywood has so much creativity and innovation? lol

I agree AAA gaming is getting very stale but it's the same with the huge Hollywood blockbusters.

In both cases the good stuff are smaller projects.
 
Last edited:

theclaw135

Member
The talent isn't there, and AAA publishers wouldn't hire them anyway because it doesn't make money. Graphics, animations, physics, sound design, AI, etc, that fully utilize the computational abilities of current hardware will never happen.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Games, movies, tv shows etc.... money talks.

If people keep sinking money into formulaic games and mtx, then they'll keep churning them out.

Look at all the superhero and cartoon movies the past 20 years. Big money, so they keep churning them out. Why would a movie studio stop making Spiderman Reboot #6 or Marvel Superhero #62 if they each make $500M to $1B revenue?
 
Last edited:

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
And it has nothing to do with Budget, something like A Plagues Tale looks great, is made by a small team on low budget. Theres nothing that says great visuals need to take 100 years and equal to zero innovation. Its talent.
But it does take a long time, since gamers buying AAA want top notch production values. Animations, cut scenes, 15 actors doing voice overs, orchestra music etc.... An AAA game without these kinds of facets of gaming (let's say it's a very streamlined quality game without that stuff) it'll probably be pegged as AA or worse.
 

Bragr

Member
We have seen some innovations and changes.

Tarkov has taken stealth beyond the hide-in-grass approach.
Battle Royale, like it or not, has changed multiplayer.
Survival & crafting games have seen a huge push over the last decade.
You have some small genres like card-battlers and auto-battlers coming along.
Games like BOTW and Elden Ring have changed the open-world formula. FromSoftware's approach to difficulty has also influenced the industry.
VR has taken root, with some big games like Alyx leading the charge.
The influx of smaller PC indie and early access games has also grown in significant ways.
SSD removing most of the load times is a game-changer.
 

Markio128

Member
You could argue that we haven’t had a band as good as The Beatles since the 60’s. I think what I’m trying to say is that you sound like my dad.
 
Hollywood has been bankrupt for decades now. The thing people are going on about is a retread of an old classic film called Top Gun. Where's the next Tom Cruise, we've been waiting for 20 odd years for the next run of directors and actors that replace Sigourney Weaver, De Niro Al Pacino, James Cameron, Martin Scorsese Ridley Scott, Lucas etc.

I watch a film even today like the original Ghostbusters, everything about it is just oozing class and creativity, it's from another world that we can't come close to now. Dan Aykroyd, Bill Murray, Harold Ramis, Sigourney Weaver in their prime. This isn't rose tinted glasses.
 
Last edited:
Miyamoto is the most famous person the industry has ever seen, but he's stuck making shit for terrible and outdated hardware.
Problem is... He wants to make shit for terrible and outdated hardware.

I'd also argue that Miyamoto is a spent force from a creative perspective.

He's like Ridley Scott, in that his best work is behind him.
 

Ozriel

Member
The fact of the matter is that the "play less AAA games" is a tired and BS argument. And the "Graphics killed innovation" arguments are actually helping my point. I just watched The Northman in theaters. It had FANTASTIC cinematography, special effects, as well as writing, character development and plot. The movie fired on all cylinders. Not one aspect of good cinema was ignored.. In the gaming world it's usually either/or, rarely do you see games that nail gameplay, graphics, story and innovation.

And it has nothing to do with Budget, something like A Plagues Tale looks great, is made by a small team on low budget. Theres nothing that says great visuals need to take 100 years and equal to zero innovation. Its talent.

SIFU, some of the best combat ever in a game, stylish visuals, low budget. Talented studio.

Ironically, 99% of the people I know IRL who watched The Northman thought it was shite.
 

rolandss

Member
The biggest let down this gen (and last) is/was lack of any real major developments in physics and destruction. Graphically I feel like everything is focussed on resolution and lighting in the AAA space where as physics and environment improvements have been limited.
 

nkarafo

Member
Gaming is better than it's ever been, people are just too caught up in nostalgia to accept it

Um.... no.

- DOOM/Quake/Duke Nukem/Blood, etc FPS level design has been dead since the late 90's. Only a few indies try to replicate it with mixed results.
- Dungeon Keeper type games peaked with... the original Dungeon Keeper.
- Nobody cares about enemy AI anymore.
- 2D Platformers are nowhere near as good or plentiful as they were in the 16bit days. Yoshi's Island is still the peak.
- Where are the arcade racing games?
- 3D free roaming platformers also peaked with the N64 though i still haven't played Odyssey yet.
- 2D fighting games? Is there anything as good as Street Fighter 3: Next Generation?
- 2D pixel art never got as good as the best Capcom/SNK big budget titles. Metal Slug 3 is still the peak.
- Metroidvanias? Eh, Super Metroid and SOTN are still the best. Metroid Prime 1 is still the best 3D one.
- Where are the horror games that surpassed the first few Silent Hill games? Jump scare fests are not horror.
- Let's not even speak about RTS games. Especially single player campaigns.

Those are just some examples on top of my head.

Modern gaming is better in some areas/genres but worse in others. And let's not talk about how phones ruined mobile gaming with their normie shovelware trash or things like pay to win, lootboxes, always online, leftist ideology poisoning the industry, etc.

So no, it's not just nostalgia. People who use this argument never have real arguments. If i told you "You only like newer games because of the graphics" it would be the same thing the other way.
 
Last edited:

ZywyPL

Gold Member
"Play less AAA" argument is getting so old, if that many people can't even understand the problem, how can we expect a solution? :(

But AAA games are their own problem, they're just way too expensive to take any risks at all. If anything, people forget/don't understand that's what it's all about - money, it's just a business like every other. So if you limit yourself only to AAA titles then all you'll be getting is the same old safe, proven formulas that are guaranteed to sell in teens-tens of million copies. This gen was all about TPP open-worlds, previous one was corridor dude-bro shooters, and the past week already strongly suggest that PS5/XSX gen will be all about sci-fi theme, so take it or leave it if you don't want to look outside AAA market.
 

j0hnnix

Member
Warren Spector, John Carmack, Will Wright, Richard Garriott, Shigeru Miyamoto, Hidetaka Miyazaki, Yoko Taro, Sid Meier, Satoru Iwata, Hideo Kojima, Tim Schafer, Chris Avellone, Jeremy Soule, Chris Sawyer, Daniel Vávra, Jonathan Blow, Gabe Newell, Hironobu Sakaguchi, Roberta Williams, Cory Barlog...
You forgot Neil Druckmann.

This going to be good.
GIF by Giphy QA
 
Ironically, 99% of the people I know IRL who watched The Northman thought it was shite.
Shite is almost too nice. That movie had a fucking Videogame-Story-Structure (in the worst sense), including
a fucking boss battle on lava!
... and they had the breathtaking real locations of Iceland and did visually NOTHING with it. Cinematography my ass! Damn, I hated to sit in that movie.
Luckily I watched "Everything, Everywhere All at Once" directly after. So good.
 

Orbital2060

Gold Member
I noticed during the summer games fest, so many games look like each other or use the same mechanics in similar ways. The Xbox+Beth showcase was more varied in this sense but its getting worse overall every year imo. The big publishers are playing it safe and waiting for the next Big Idea that they can copy the hell out of, and not enough ideas are coming out from the ground up.

Historically speaking it seems like a great idea comes along once every ten years or so, sometimes a couple great ideas. Nothing has really impacted the industry like Dark Soul has for a long while now, although there are lots of great indie games being made. Just none with the impact of Spelunky or Braid, or Minecraft. Theyre still the best way to experience something new and exclting though, because the big third party publishers are taking no chances.

Maybe something will come out of left field and blow our minds again, its about time for it to happen.
 
Top Bottom