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[Game4life]

Alright GAF. After years of arguing with friends I want to settle this. The best Michael Mann movie among the trinity of Thief, Heat and Collateral.

1) Thief

This is phenomenally shot movie.Chicago looks absolutely amazing and every shot looks so slick. The photography and the score is wonderful and adds to the tension. The film moves along at a brisk pace while still effectively communicating the motivations of all its characters ( unlike Heat which slows to a crawl at times to convey character motivations and character depth ). James Caan as the jewel thief Frank gives a phenomenal performance. The diner scene is so freaking good.

Best quote

"Look, I have run out of time. I have lost it all. So l cannot work fast enough to catch up, and l cannot run fast enough to catch up. And the only thing that catches me up is doin' my magic act. But it ends, you know? It will end. When l got this, right there, it ends, it is over. So I am just asking you...to be with me."

He delivers. The only downside I can think of compared to the other movies is a lack of an epic shootout. The ending while satisfying and suitably bloody does not compare to some of the iconic shootouts in the heat or collateral.


2) Heat

Now this movie has started to grow on me on subsequent viewing.When I watched it for the first time I thought there were some really amazing stand out scenes but the pacing always seemed off to me. Even after rewatching I dont think it needed this much of time to get the character motivations across. It could have been paced better but goddamn some of the scenes are so fking good. Sorry Al, but De Niro steals the show here. Every scene of his is so riveting.His screen presence is through the roof.

No one can deny the films influence over the years in both movies and video games. Nolan's TDK niceley rips off Heat throughout the film.

Bottom line - Superb photography, score and some amazing performances just being held back by the pacing. Also why the hell did this movie not get any oscar nods? WTF

Best Quote

"Look at me"

Both the movies mentioned above are great and include some standout performances but ultimately there is one badass who towers over them all. He is Vincent in

3) Collateral

The best Michael Mann movie in my opinion. It combines the pacing of Thief with the badassery of Heat in one slick package with Tom Cruise delivering one of his best performances as the hitman Vincent. The movie is so fking visually arresting. LA has never looked this good. I love me some club shootout scenes in movies and The fever club shootout with paul oakenfolds ready steady go in the background is as good as they come.

Best Quote

Toss up between

"Yo homie that my briefcase" and "Guy gets on the subway and dies. Think anybody'll notice?"

So GAF Collateral is the best right? right????

 

[kris.]

i've never seen thief or collateral, but the shootout in heat is one of the best scenes in any movie ever.

 

[hal9001]

Manhunter.

http://youtu.be/PsWq1MtI3vI

Out of those three maybe Thief. Tough call though.

 

[Thug Waffle]

Collateral is my favorite, yeah. But I think Heat is a more impressive cinematic work overall. It's just a little long for me, and I'm partial to Collateral's aesthetic.

They're all great films, though. Thief is a movie that doesn't get talked about enough imo

 

[BotchPoppaPump]

The answer is all of them. We must treasure vintage Mann for we may never get another.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Manhunter.

http://youtu.be/PsWq1MtI3vI

Out of those three maybe Thief. Tough call though.

Manhunter is so fucking 80s it hurts, but so outstanding regardless.

 

[0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55]

I'm a fan of all, but my order is
Heat>Thief>Collateral

Heat... epic heist movie, really cranked up the groundwork laid by Thief. Cop vs Robber dynamic is wicked good.
Thief... beautiful movie, love the dark aesthetic, and the Tangerine Dream score, but the love story falls flat IMO.
Collateral... great fun, amazing gunplay/style, but it's over the top, too unbelievable.

 

[HIGH DEF JEFF]

Where are Jericho Mile, Manhunter, The Insider and Miami Vice?

 

[cackhyena]

I've already said this elsewhere, but Heat's ending is one of the best ever. The tense showdown, the clasping of hands, the music swelling. It's got so much more than this as a movie, and were it not for the bits that could arguably be cut to make it slightly less of a drag, it would be sitting at my number 1, instead of somewhere in my top 5. I can honestly watch this movie anytime. That's rare for me.

 

[Game4life]

The answer is all of them. We must treasure vintage Mann for we may never get another.

This is true.

I've already said this elsewhere, but Heat's ending is one of the best ever. The tense showdown, the clasping of hands, the music swelling. It's got so much more than this as a movie, and were it not for the bits that could arguably be cut to make it slightly less of a drag, it would be sitting at my number 1, instead of somewhere in my top 5. I can honestly watch this movie anytime. That's rare for me.

Yup. That was a GOAT scene. I am still flabbergasted this movie did not get any oscar nods.

 

[ffejeromdiks]

Heat > Collateral > Thief

All are fantastic movies no doubt at all, but Heat is a goddamned masterpiece in every category. The shootout always gets mentioned but that scene of Pacino and DeNiro in the diner is legendary, one of the best scenes in cinema.

 

[TwoDurans]

No love for Miami Vice? I know it's polarizing, but you can't deny that it's beautifully shot and has one of the best gunfights caught on celluloid.

 

[HIGH DEF JEFF]

No love for Miami Vice? I know it's polarizing, but you can't deny that it's beautifully shot and has one of the best gunfights caught on celluloid.

You mean SD card?

 

[TwoDurans]

You mean SD card?

I think the final fight was on film, and not digital. Could be wrong though.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Top Tier Mann

Heat - The movie he was trying to make his entire career, his masterpiece

Thief - The first film you can point to that personified the "Michael Mann film"

The Last of the Mohicans - a costume drama with a pulse, that rarest most beautiful of creatures

The Insider - Not as instantly iconic as the above three, but when you're watching it feels like Mann's most accomplished film

Mid Tier Mann

Collateral - His most commercial work, but his most successful experiment in cinematic representation and film language of his post-2000 career

The Jericho Mile - A strong, arresting debut. Don't let its TV Movie status or lack of overt Mann-isms put you off. This is the work of a very talented filmmaker.

Manhunter - Flawed, dated, and don't let anyone tell you Cox's very fine performance is better than Hopkin's, but the movie is undeniably alluring. That tiger scene!

Interesting Mann Failures

Ali - There are moments here and there where this thing comes to life and escapes its ruthlessly formulaic biopic script. Moments where that particular sense of form and content of Michael Mann films come together so perfectly. Moments where Will Smith seems like the most charismatic mothafucker on the face of the Earth. But there are just moments, and moments do not make a movie.

Public Enemies - On paper, this should've been the next Heat. I mean, this should have been a knockout, he even brought back Dante Spinotti who shot all his 90s masterworks. Instead its just...its just...¯\_(&#12484_/¯

Miami Vice - There is a revisionist movement for this film by Mann fans I respect and admire. I have declined every invitation to that movement. Its an UGLY movie, some of the foul lookin' yellows I've ever seen, with some of the outright godawful night photography I've ever seen in a Hollywood production. And since this is post-Heat, "I don't have anything interesting to say anymore" Michael Mann, the narrative is...well, it isn't. I applaud your ambition, even if I don't respect the results.

Blackhat - Rearrange some of my words from Miami Vice above and its basically the same thing.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

From these three my ranking is:

1. HEAT
2. Thief
3. Collateral

HEAT was everything Mann was building to (up to that point) since his directorial career started thematically and stylistically. A mammoth crime epic, a loaded cast, a tale of a city, two sides of the same coin, THE restaurant conversation, and THE shootout.

Thief is great as well, and Mann in a nutshell. Chicago, criminals, heists, structure, prison/post-prison life, icy atmosphere, eclectic music, stylish, nighttime visuals, fighting for lost time, spontaneous relationship put under heavy pressure immediately, and the quintessential Mann ending tone we'd see repeated time and time again. I, personally, wouldn't rank this as his best, but I can see why someone would. It's shiny and cut perfectly, much like the diamonds in the move, but it's also a little rigid and a testbed for themes and shots I think got more interesting later on.

Collateral is also great, but aside from the digital camerawork it's Mann in cruise control IMO (no pun intended, seriously). It's an easy thriller, something Mann's even stated as doing because it was a smaller, more condensed movie after doing 4 back-to-back big ones. It has great performances, great scenes, a memorable character and role for Cruise, and THE nightclub shootout, but in the end I think it's a little easy. Not that easy is bad. It's rewatchable, comfortable, traditionally entertaining.

Overall theatrical ranking though:

1. The Insider
2. Heat
3. Miami Vice
4. The Last of The Mohicans
5. Thief
6. Collateral
7. Manhunter
8. Blackhat
9. Public Enemies
10. Ali
........
587. The Keep

 

[FStop7]

Heat's the "fun" movie that you throw on a Sunday afternoon when you're dicking around the house and want something cool to watch.

Collateral is a movie you sit down and you focus on watching. And it gives you something to think about, every time.

Collateral and Magnolia show how much more Tom Cruise is capable of doing, as an actor.

 

[BotchPoppaPump]

From these three my ranking is:

1. HEAT
2. Thief
3. Collateral

HEAT was everything Mann was building to (up to that point) since his directorial career started thematically and stylistically. A mammoth crime epic, a loaded cast, a tale of a city, two sides of the same coin, THE restaurant conversation, and THE shootout.

Thief is great as well, and Mann in a nutshell. Chicago, criminals, heists, structure, prison/post-prison life, icy atmosphere, eclectic music, stylish, nighttime visuals, fighting for lost time, spontaneous relationship put under heavy pressure immediately, and the quintessential Mann ending tone we'd see repeated time and time again. I, personally, wouldn't rank this as his best, but I can see why someone would. It's shiny and cut perfectly, much like the diamonds in the move, but it's also a little rigid and a testbed for themes and shots I think got more interesting later on.

Collateral is also great, but aside from the digital camerawork it's Mann in cruise control IMO (no pun in tended, seriously). It's an easy thriller, something Mann's even stated as doing because it was a smaller, more condensed movie after doing 4 back-to-back big ones. It has great performances, great scenes, a memorable character and role for Cruise, and THE nightclub shootout, but in the end I think it's a little easy.

Overall theatrical ranking though:

1. The Insider
2. Heat
3. Miami Vice
4. The Last of The Mohicans
5. Thief
6. Collateral
7. Manhunter
8. Blackhat
9. Public Enemies
10. Ali
........
587. The Keep

I hoped The Keep would come up. I quite like it in a batshit sort of way. Certainly the oddball of the back catalogue.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I didn't even rank The Keep. Its not even an interesting failure, its an outright disaster.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I hoped The Keep would come up. I quite like it in a batshit sort of way. Certainly the oddball of the back catalogue.

I didn't even rank The Keep. Its not even an interesting failure, its an outright disaster.

The Keep is interesting for about 10 minutes then you hit a point of boredom, then it's cheese (bad cheese), then it's confusing, then it's hokey, then it ends. I'm an admitted Mann apologist because his work hits all the right buttons for me, but I can't make it through a rewatch of The Keep. What could've been Mann's Sorcerer with a mystical/horror bent is simply bad. Like inexplicably bad.

 

[BotchPoppaPump]

I didn't even rank The Keep. Its not even an interesting failure, its an outright disaster.

Oh, hey. I won't try to defend it.

I am overly partial to any Tangerine Dream score, however.

And I am always intrigued about this mythical 3 hour first cut that we'll never see.

 

[Jobbs]

Collateral and Heat almost feel like the same movie in many ways. Michael Mann wasn't done with a lot of those scenes and decided to do them again.

In any case, my vote goes to Collateral. One of my favorite movies. Tom Cruise's hitman character was far more interesting than "cop with family problems" and "career criminal with girlfriend problems" who share a mutual respect or whatever.

 

[dapperbandit]

Never seen Thief though I'm keen to.

I'm glad someone else remarked on heat's pacing issues. I've fallen asleep twice watching that movie. The IMDB trivia page for this movie is recommended reading by the way.

Collateral is awesome, probably my favourite of his.

 

[pringles]

Heat all the way. One of the best movies ever and so, so iconic and influential.

Collateral is great but it's not the epic masterpiece that Heat is.

Gotta watch Thief.

 

[paskowitz]

Heat>Collateral>Thief

Heat just has this staying power. You don't forget it. Collateral is memorable as well, but mostly because of Cruise and Fox. Everyone else is just kinda "there". Thief, only saw it once but it didn't really stick with me. I'll have to rewatch it.

Also, Heat has some of the best sound work of any film, ever. Not just for the shootout scene but almost every other scene.

 

[True Savior]

Thief is , obviously , the best of the three.

I need to add that Collateral is one of the worst Mann movies.

 

[jtb]

I'm tempted to say that Blackhat is better than Miami Vice.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Thief is a good movie, but it also feels like a warmup film for Mann. So of those three, I'd rank it last. Collateral would be second, with Heat in first. Heat is just a fucking classic to me.

For all Mann's movies:
1. Heat
2. The Insider
3. Collateral
4. Miami Vice
5. The Last of the Mohicans
6. Manhunter
7. Thief
8. Blackhat
9. Public Enemies
10. Ali

I like all of them to some degree. Ali has a great beginning and ending, but a weak middle.

 

[TwoDurans]

Since we're in a Mann thread, I'm always interested to hear other people's take on this:

In Collateral, do you think Vincent would have let the Jazz Man go if he'd gotten the question right?

 

[Discotheque]

yeah I'd rank

Heat
Thief
Collateral

that's easy.

the overall ranking of his filmography is tough for me. These days I'm thinking something like

The Insider
Heat
Miami Vice
Last of the Mohicans
Thief
Ali
Collateral
Blackhat
Manhunter
Public Enemies

fuck da keep

I've always ranked his movies like this except Ali has been raised a few notches. I really liked that one on a rewatch. It's got some of his best camerawork in there and the opening montage and end fight especially should be iconic. They're incredible.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I've always ranked his movies like this except Ali has been raised a few notches. I really liked that one on a rewatch. It's got some of his best camerawork in there and the opening montage and end fight especially should be iconic. They're incredible.

He has a new cut too that he said is the best version of the movie. I want that on blu-ray so much. The current one is beautiful and the fights/montages are amazing, but it's a little flat in between.

 

[Discotheque]

He has a new cut too that he said is the best version of the movie. I want that on blu-ray so much. The current one is beautiful and the fights/montages are amazing, but it's a little flat in between.

Really? god damn I need it.

It does fall a bit flat but there are so many strong scenes. Smith IS Ali in it too. Also the malcolm x shooting was a really strong scene as well, powerful (I think it was done even better than the spike lee scene)