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[Ahasverus]

Whaat, does fructose come in.. fruits? I mean, I'm scared now.

 

[devonodev]

The rest of the world finds it strange how much HFCS is used in America.

 

[entremet]

Whaat, does fructose come in.. fruits? I mean, I'm scared now.

Yes, but it's not as concentrated as HFCS, which was lab derived from corn.

Also, fruit has fiber, which blunts intake.

The rest of the world finds it strange how much HFCS is used in America.

Well, here's the story.

The US subsidizes a good portion of the farm industry, especially corn, wheat, soy.

There's only so much of those products people could eat, so we needed to find out other uses for them.

Excess corn was used to also feed cows, which made them fatter than grass, as it was much denser calorically, but gave us amazing steak.

And the rest of the excess corn, which was dirt cheap, cheaper than cane sugar, was converted to HFCS.

That's why it's in everything in the US. The US taxpayers pays for it ironically.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

My understanding of the paper is that compared to glucose, fructose resulted in 11% heavier mice, not from increased calorie intake (which was the same between the two groups of mice), but because of reduced activity (or increased activity) between the groups.

See:
Food intake

Average food intake expressed as a percentage of BW was not significantly different between treatments for the entire duration of the experiment.

(although it was different if not normalized to Body weight

By the end of the 11-week experiment, the fructose animals weighed on average 2.6 grams, or 11%, more than the glucose animals.


Home cage physical activity

Home cage activity across the 5 days of testing is presented for both the dark cycle (Fig. 3a) and the light cycle (Fig. 3b). Days 4 and 5 were chosen a priori to data collection as reliable measures of locomotor activity based on our previous experiments demonstrating that it takes a minimum of 3 days for animals to acclimatize38. Specifically, during the dark cycle on days 4 and 5, mice given the fructose diet traveled significantly less (approximately 20% less) in comparison to animals fed the glucose diet (t20 = 2.17, P < 0.05) (Fig. 3c). No differences in cage activity were detected during the light cycle, as expected. Two animals in the glucose treatment group were excluded from data analysis due to erroneous video tracking.


Its much easier to see if you look at the graphs in the paper.

Also, I still think its interesting that there's no differences in body weight in human studies. This seems like leptin stuff all over again imo.

I had to reread the article to understand better. This is an interesting study.

 

[The Hermit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceFyF9px20Y

I think Evilore himself posted this videos in another thread a long time ago.

It made me stop drinking coke and losing 10Kg (and counting ) since then

Please watch they are life changing

 

[The Lamp]

Yeah. GAF should watch the Dr. Lustig videos on YouTube for more info.

Edit: beaten by one post.

 

[bobbytkc]

Also, fruit has fiber, which blunts intake.

I find this highly unlikely. Maybe it slows down absorption, which doesn't matter in the end as all of it eventually gets absorbed. It probably doesn't affect how much fructose the body absorbs overall.

 

[innervision961]

Factory food, fast food... All this crap is terrible for us. It doesn't take a scientific study to see it really. Eat healthy whole foods, your body doesn't seize up. The kicker is access to these good healthy foods. Who is working on that puzzle piece?

 

[entremet]

I find this highly unlikely. Maybe it slows down absorption, which doesn't matter in the end as all of it eventually gets absorbed. It probably doesn't affect how much fructose the body absorbs overall.

http://www.prevention.com/weight-loss/weight-loss-tips/natural-blood-sugar-blockers-high-fiber-foods

You may have heard that whole grain products are high in fiber. However, the starch in grains quickly turns to sugar and overwhelms any blood sugar-blocking effect the fiber might have. Of course, all fruits and vegetables contain sugar; that's what makes them carbohydrates. Nevertheless, most contain proportionately more soluble fiber than sugar, so they don't raise blood sugar as much as grain products and other refined carbohydrates do.

Keeping blood sugar steady is an important tool for preventing insulin spikes, which can lock fat into your cells and prevent it from being used for energy. The substance in our diet that's most responsible for these blood sugar surges is starch. But the good news is you can blunt the blood sugar-raising effects by taking advantage of natural substances in foods&#8212;like fiber in fruits and veggies&#8212;that slow carbohydrate digestion and entry into the bloodstream.

It slows it down to be more accurate. But that's important as it does not have send your insulin levels up and then crashing down.

 

[The Lamp]

Because it is.

I mean seriously, right here in the article.



One group of mice was less active than the other while calorie consumption was the same for both. Obviously, the group of mice that was expending fewer calories gained more weight than the group that was expending more.

It's not that simple to analyze where calories are going. Different biomolecules are metabolized with different metabolic pathways. A fructose molecule is not chemically identical to glucose or galactose and therefore will not be handled the same inside the body as glucose. 100 calories of fructose will have completely different effects on the body and it's energy will be used to couple different reactions compared to 100 calories of glucose.

 

[pgtl_10]

He didn't say that. His point was that this study doesn't contradict calories in vs calories out. (No study has ever contradicted calories in vs calories out, and no study ever will.)

But but people like their fad diets!

 

[bobbytkc]

http://www.prevention.com/weight-loss/weight-loss-tips/natural-blood-sugar-blockers-high-fiber-foods

The article you posted is about glycemic index, which is related to the rate at which sugars are absorbed, not the total amount of calories absorbed by the body from fructose. This is a separate issue.

 

[Princess Carl]

Yet some people will try and claim that there isn't anything different with it and it's just "calories in calories out".

Because it is.

I mean seriously, right here in the article.



One group of mice was less active than the other while calorie consumption was the same for both. Obviously, the group of mice that was expending fewer calories gained more weight than the group that was expending more.

Sounds like you didn't read the through the study.

 

[Sulik2]

Cliff notes?

Fructose caused weight gain when eating the same amount of calories as before basically.

In other words this crap needs to be banned from our food supply.

 

[entremet]

The article you posted is about glycemic index, which is related to the rate at which sugars are absorbed, not the total amount of calories absorbed by the body from fructose. This is a separate issue.

That's what I'm talking about.

It looks like we're on two different tracks here.

Usually when fructose is brought up in these discussions it is not due to its caloric load, but to its "special" effect on metabolism or satiety or insulin spiking and whatnot.

 

[pgtl_10]

This study doesn't seem to contradict the calorie in vs. calorie out rule. It seems to suggest that the body reacts differently to different energy sources. Am I correct in thinking that way?

Also how much has the automobile and washing machine effected our energy output?

 

[entremet]

This study doesn't seem to contradict the calorie in vs. calorie out rule. It seems to suggest that the body reacts differently to different energy sources. Am I correct in thinking that way?

Also how much has the automobile and washing machine affected our energy output?

The automobile is a huge one, but also the personal computer and cubicle/office setups of most jobs to day.

We're burning way less calories.

 

[Turbowaffles]

I wish junk food wasn't so cheap compared to various fruits, vegetables, and meats.

Also fast food.

When someone is struggling to make it by paying rent, car, insurance, utilities, you can really only afford the not so healthy stuff. What are people supposed to do? Eat good and not have a home or car which is important to get them to work? Or not have any heating and freeze to death in the winter? I mean, unless you're well off or have a family/support system you're fucked.

 

[Aikidoka]

I've been on a low carb diet the past year and its insane how much food contains high fructose corn syrup, things you would never expect. On the plus side shopping is really easy nowadays, just stroll down the meat aisle, the veggie aisle, and skip 90% of the store.

Definitely sleep a lot better and feel more alert during the day. 20+ years from now people are going to look at the 20th and early 21st century and wonder how stupid were we for stuffing HFCS into everything, just like we can't believe the Flintstone and Lucy ads peddling cigarettes.

Well, the early 20th century had people putting uranium in toothpaste and lotions and pretty much everything. At least one person had to be buried in a lead casket.

 

[Nyoro SF]

I wish junk food wasn't so cheap compared to various fruits, vegetables, and meats.

Also fast food.

When someone is struggling to make it by paying rent, car, insurance, utilities, you can really only afford the not so healthy stuff. What are people supposed to do? Eat good and not have a home or car which is important to get them to work? Or not have any heating and freeze to death in the winter? I mean, unless you're well off or have a family/support system you're fucked.

I call ixnay on this argument. Even though I live in Socal where groceries are higher cost than average it is so much cheaper to make your own food and groceries come with higher food volume. It is not even comparable.

 

[User 479360]

It could explain me, because I drink a lot of Coke.

 

[I Stalk Alone]

Abstract

Recent evidence suggests that fructose consumption is associated with weight gain, fat deposition and impaired cognitive function. However it is unclear whether the detrimental effects are caused by fructoseb itself or by the concurrent increase in overall energy intake. In the present study we examine the impact of a fructose diet relative to an isocaloric glucose diet in the absence of overfeeding, using a mouse model that mimics fructose intake in the top percentile of the USA population (18% energy). Following 77 days of supplementation, changes in body weight (BW), body fat, physical activity, cognitive performance and adult hippocampal neurogenesis were assessed. Despite the fact that no differences in calorie intake were observed between groups, the fructose animals displayed significantly increased BW, liver mass and fat mass in comparison to the glucose group. This was further accompanied by a significant reduction in physical activity in the fructose animals. Conversely, no differences were detected in hippocampal neurogenesis and cognitive/motor performance as measured by object recognition, fear conditioning and rotorod tasks. The present study suggests that fructose per se, in the absence of excess energy intake, increases fat deposition and BW potentially by reducing physical activity, without impacting hippocampal neurogenesis or cognitive function

http://www.nature.com/srep/2015/150411/srep09589/pdf/srep09589.pdf this is the real study.


This is not something new however, here is an abstract of another study in 2002 first thing that popped up without doing a proper search

Fructose, weight gain, and the insulin resistance syndrome1,2,3

Because fructose does not stimulate insulin secretion from pancreatic &#946; cells, the consumption of foods and beverages containing fructose produces smaller postprandial insulin excursions than does consumption of glucose-containing carbohydrate. Because leptin production is regulated by insulin responses to meals, fructose consumption also reduces circulating leptin concentrations. The combined effects of lowered circulating leptin and insulin in individuals who consume diets that are high in dietary fructose could therefore increase the likelihood of weight gain and its associated metabolic sequelae. In addition, fructose, compared with glucose, is preferentially metabolized to lipid in the liver. Fructose consumption induces insulin resistance, impaired glucose tolerance, hyperinsulinemia, hypertriacylglycerolemia, and hypertension in animal models. The data in humans are less clear. Although there are existing data on the metabolic and endocrine effects of dietary fructose that suggest that increased consumption of fructose may be detrimental in terms of body weight and adiposity and the metabolic indexes associated with the insulin resistance syndrome, much more research is needed to fully understand the metabolic effect of dietary fructose in humans.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/76/5/911.full

Remember this study is done on 77 mice and not people. Human trials can be vastly different due to our hormonal responses. Yes I avoid all white powders unless it is a special day. humans who have insulin sensitivity may not have these same issues.
In saying that most humans are naturally insulin resistant as it used to be an advantage in our primitive lives before the invention of agriculture 10000 years ago.


there was a thread yesterday about the nutritional psycjologist who was speaking about leptin resistance (in her youtube videos) caused by insulin resistance and how we should avoid white powders (flour, sugar etc) if we are genetically susceptible to leptin resistance.

What is interesting is that sucrose does not effect cognitive function or performance although there was a difference found, no significant differences were found.

 

[SapientWolf]

I try to avoid HFCS wherever I can. Shits in everything though. Even things like steak sauce, it's ridiculous.

Damn corn subsidies.

HFCS isn't that high in fructose. Typically, it's 55% vs 50% in sucrose. Some fruit juices, on the other hand, are 100% fructose.

 

[GreenTornadoX]

I'm not surprised that alot of things have fructose in it!

 

[triplestation]

this chick eats like 20 lbs of fruits a day

they call her banana girl or something

and she lost a ton of w8

 

[SolVanderlyn]

this chick eats like 20 lbs of fruits a day



they call her banana girl or something

and she lost a ton of w8

Bananas are cool, high in sugar but alright.

Raisins will fucking kill you though, it's so easy to eat half a box. That's like 800 calories and a shitload of sugar

 

[The Lamp]

HFCS isn't that high in fructose. Typically, it's 55% vs 50% in sucrose. Some fruit juices, on the other hand, are 100% fructose.

Sucrose is a fructose molecule bonded to a glucose molecule. An enzyme in your body quickly cleaves the bond and releases fructose.

 

[drtomoe123]

It's Day 3 of the "Fed Up" challenge for me and I feel great.

Watched that around a month ago and I've been eating great ever since. Scared the shit out of me.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

I try to avoid HFCS wherever I can. Shits in everything though. Even things like steak sauce, it's ridiculous.

Damn corn subsidies.

...lol what steak sauce? damn

 

[diggmcbadass]

I'm European with close to zero HFCS in my diet, and I'm also fat and lazy. This explains nothing.

 

[maximum360]

[Citation needed]

Also, there's studies that Asians hold their internal fat differently, so they can appear slim while having more visceral fat than it looks like from the outside. Because of this diabetes is under-diagnosed in Asia.




Nope, they're all the same. Sugar raises your blood sugar faster, but in the end they all break down to the same thing and make you fat. Fruit is actually bad for you. So are potatoes, bread, pasta, etc.

Ummm....

 

[FStop7]

"fruit is bad for you"

This is why people need to stay the hell away from the internet for health advice and why distributing health advice on the internet should be tightly regulated.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

<tinfoilhat> This was done on purpose by the government to make us all docile! </tinfoilhat>

I try to avoid HFCS. If I buy soda (which isn't often) I get ones made with cane sugar. I brew my own iced tea, make my own sauces (including ketchup), or be sure to buy stuff with actual sugar.

In the past two years of doing this my health has markedly improved with little change to the amount I eat or how much I work out.

 

[Greddleok]

I don't get why they tested glucose vs fructose if they want to make the statement that HFCS is bad. The alternative to HFCS is sucrose, not glucose.

 

[SPCTRE]

 

[G.ZZZ]

America study, europe and Asia stay thin

 

[M3d10n]

 

[number47]

I get fat. But how does frutose have a mental effect(being lazy) on you?

 

[Skinpop]

America study, europe and Asia stay thin

we are all getting fatter together. I don't think there is a single first world country that has managed to reverse obesity rates.

 

[Mexen]

God bless the whopper!

 

[Greddleok]

I get fat. But how does frutose have a mental effect(being lazy) on you?

Being lazy isn't necessarily mental. It can be (and usually is) entirely physiological.

 

[terrisus]

EDIT: Oops, beaten >.>

 

[Deleted member 13876]

So glad HFCS seems to only be an American thing. Wonder how fat most of Australia would be if they were here, too.

Hope it stays that way, but trade treaties might change that.

 

[maximum360]

I get fat. But how does frutose have a mental effect(being lazy) on you?

Leptin increased sympathetic nervous system activity. Leptin resistance due to high fructose consumption inhibits that thus your body stays in rest and fat storage mode.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21865462

Abstract
Leptin regulates body weight in mice by decreasing appetite and increasing sympathetic nerve activity (SNA), which increases energy expenditure in interscapular brown adipose tissue (iBAT). Diet-induced obese mice (DIO) are resistant to the anorectic actions of leptin. We evaluated whether leptin still stimulated sympathetic outflow in DIO mice. We measured iBAT temperature as a marker of SNA. We found that obese hyperleptinemic mice have higher iBAT temperature than mice on regular diet. Conversely, obese leptin-deficient ob/ob mice have lower iBAT temperature. Additionally, leptin increased SNA in obese (DIO and ob/ob) and control mice, despite DIO mice being resistant to anorectic action of leptin. We demonstrated that neurons in the dorsomedial hypothalamus (DMH) of DIO mice mediate the thermogenic responses to hyperleptinemia in obese mammals because blockade of leptin receptors in the DMH prevented the thermogenic effects of leptin. Peripheral Melotan II (MTII) injection increased iBAT temperature, but it was blunted by blockade of DMH melanocortin receptors (MC4Rs) by injecting agouti-related peptide (AgRP) directly into the DMH, suggesting a physiological role of the DMH on temperature regulation in animals with normal body weight. Nevertheless, obese mice without a functional melanocortin system (MC4R KO mice) have an increased sympathetic outflow to iBAT compared with their littermates, suggesting that higher leptin levels drive sympathoexcitation to iBAT by a melanocortin-independent pathway. Because the sympathetic nervous system contributes in regulating blood pressure, heart rate, and hepatic glucose production, selective leptin resistance may be a crucial mechanism linking adiposity and metabolic syndrome.

 

[entremet]

Also, right in the article:


Under discussion.

I know for some people it's really hard to understand that physical activity helps determine the "calories out " part of the super secret formula for weight loss [calories in < calories out], it's true. Moving around means that you do burn calories.





...

........................ portion control.???????????

*edit: I mean, yeah, some forms of carbs are 'better' for you than others, but that's not the only thing.

Well yeah.

Portion control is just another word for calorie control. I was just responding to the poster who vilified a whole macronutrient.

Combine that with foods designed that make your hungrier, sedentary lifestyles, and higher caloric intake, we have what we have now.

 

[Kurt Angle]

say that to my face op

 

[jerry1594]

Love when the food professionals post in these topics.

 

[cardinalmind]

Yes, yes blame the foods you take instead of a personal lack of initiative to get fit. Having an enemy that can be easily blamed / painted as an evil is easier to do than create a meaningful lifestyle that remove your bulky figure and minimize your procrastination habits.

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

So we should eat a balanced diet with reasonably sized portions and exercise?

 

[maximum360]

Yes, yes blame the foods you take instead of a personal lack of initiative to get fit. Having an enemy that can be easily blamed / painted as an evil is easier to do than create a meaningful lifestyle that remove your bulky figure and minimize your procrastination habits.

That's close to saying it's just calories in vs calories out. It's more complex than that. There's more research showing the effect of diet on behavior and everyone's susceptibility is different. I never got into alcohol, it does nothing for me. But it would be similar to me saying to an alcoholic "if it's bad for you just stop drinking" or a smoker "see I don't have to smoke, why is it so hard for you to quit"?