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[Freeza Under The Shower]

yeeeaah, having books with real kids in it is really not okay. The animated kind is whatevs though.

edit: that Vita post was gold though. I mean, I haven't been on gaming side for like, years now, even I got it.

 

[Chet Rippo]

Spoiler

Seriously, can you not see what is funny about this?

Spoiler

Don't worry, I like some self-depreciating humor.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Also, the thread title really isn't accurate since manga is mentioned in passing and not given a big focus. The focus is to stop exploitation of real children, which is a much bigger issue. The title as it is seems very loaded (stop doing this ponpo!)

 

[JDSN]

Good, shit its gross and the western people made it even more disgusting by trying to make it about freedom of speech and art expression like the are some kind of Art/Politics graduates rather than just some dude that wanna wank to little girls.

 

[Nightbird]

Wait, are you saying a real act happens and then someone draws it? That's absolutely in poor taste, but once again has no legal precedent unless the artist was taking part in the act.

If it's purely the artist's imagination, thought crime.

I think the fact that it exists doesn't bother me that much. I mean, let's be real: even if it gets banned, people who want such content will find ways to do so. A law will not stop them to posses pictures.

However, what rubs me the wrong way is that there is a business around this. Selling and buying porn with children like characters is disturbing.

 

[MHWilliams]

The oppression of VitaGAF has reached such heights that I wouldn't even admit to owning one (which I don't) lest I be hazed off the forum.

It's the lightest oppression and hazing I've ever seen.

 

[tariniel]

What if someone draws one of these with drawn kids that look like your kids?

Oh, THEN you'll suddenly get why we need to consider drawn child porn along the same lines as actual child porn. It doesn't fucking matter if the picture was made with a camera, pen, or sculpture. It's child porn. Victims of rape still have to feel the damage of an act someone did to them, whether it was themselves videotaped or someone decided to draw them participating in the act. There is only negatives that come with allowing such sick shit to exist.

I don't understand this argument. Who cares if it looks like anyone? If the artists isn't expressly drawing a character to look like a specific person, then what does it matter if it coincidentally looks like someone? There are people in real, legal pornography that could have a small resemblance to your sister or daughter or what have you, should we ban that too?

I really doubt victims of rape are seeking out Japanese drawn pornography and having this serious of a problem with it.

I'm not saying I agree that it should stay legal, I just really don't get this one.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Is this the end of third party Vita support?

 

[Leafhopper]

Also, the thread title really isn't accurate since manga is mentioned in passing and not given a big focus. The focus is to stop exploitation of real children, which is a much bigger issue. The title as it is seems very loaded (stop doing this ponpo!)

This title will get more clicks though.

 

[stump sock]

Also, the thread title really isn't accurate since manga is mentioned in passing and not given a big focus. The focus is to stop exploitation of real children, which is a much bigger issue. The title as it is seems very loaded (stop doing this ponpo!)

in ponpo's defense, it's an accurate description of the article, which is weirdly focusing more on manga than photobooks

probably precisely because it's more likely to grab readers

This title will get more clicks though.

beat me

 

[Captain Tuttle]

What does this even mean?

Avatar quote
Edit: beaten like a rented mule

 

[Forgive Me]

why do we have this monthly thread when all it is is people who dont actually care saying "good thats gross" and anyone defending it being instantly dismantled because it is impossible and ridiculous to defend lolicon on this forum

these threads are an actual example of the circlejerks that people usually exaggerate about gaf having. why not just ban discussion of lolicon and call it a day

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Good, shit its gross and the western people made it even more disgusting by trying to make it about freedom of speech and art expression like the are some kind of Art/Politics graduates rather than just some dude that wanna wank to little girls.

Is that how you feel about Neil Gaiman?

 

[erawsd]

If theres a direct link between this stuff and real child rape, then hell yeah get rid of it. Otherwise, who cares.

 

[Village]

What is extreme?

 

[cameron]

Maud de Boer-Buquicchio's investigation highlights a serious problem in Japan.

Japan Times: "U.N. rapporteur urges crackdown on impunity for child sex offenders"

Japan must stamp out the impunity granted to people who sexually exploit children, including light sentences and the reluctance to prosecute, to overcome the nation’s “institutional” tolerance for such crimes, a U.N. expert said Monday in Tokyo.

“Investigations and prosecutions are hardly ever initiated without a complaint lodged by the child victim. . . . The few cases that are prosecuted often end up with convictions that are suspended or entail low penalties, such as fines,” Maud de Boer-Buquicchio, U.N. special rapporteur on child prostitution and pornography, said during a news conference at the Japan National Press Club

The impunity enjoyed by sex offenders in Japan is “relatively high” compared with other developed nations, and the entrenched hesitation by police to take action struck her as “exceptional,” De Boer-Buquicchio said.

This, coupled with the low penalties that signify Japan’s “social and institutional tolerance” for related offenses, leaves victims susceptible to repeated exploitation, she said.

In Japan, “abusers and offenders can walk under the sun, while victims have to live in the shadows,” she quoted one of the representatives she met during the visit as saying.

And more related to the OP, TheGuardian: "Japan urged to ban manga child abuse images"

Among the actual images of children not covered by the new law are photographs of children in skimpy outfits but with their genitalia concealed. The material is easily available in DVD and photo book form in Tokyo.

“All these are obviously lucrative businesses. What is worrying is that there is a trend which seems to be socially accepted and tolerated,” De Boer-Buquicchio said.

According to Japanese police, the number of under-18s who featured in sexually abusive images rose to a record high of 383 in the first half of this year, up 58 from the year before. Action was taken against 659 people in 831 cases, the highest numbers since twice-yearly records began in 2000, according to a preliminary report issued by the national police agency last month. About 90% of the victims were female, including 60 who were of elementary school age or younger.

 

[Foffy]

Normal people over here don't respect it

What is normal? It's a norm.

Their norm is their normal.

 

[Joyful]

eh who needs freedom of artistic expression anyway

drawings are hurting real children somehow

 

[Numb]

Is this the end of third party Vita support?

Too deep a cut.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

What is normal? It's a norm.

Their norm is their normal.

You generally won't see someone reading this stuff on a commuter train

 

[Zero-ELEC]

Is this the end of third party Vita support?

Spoiler

I hope to god they ban non-explicit 'erotic' images of children, shit's disgusting.

 

[Syf]

Good. Shit is messed up, as are the people who like it.

 

[Chariot]

Maud de Boer-Buquicchio's investigation highlights a serious problem in Japan.

Japan Times: "U.N. rapporteur urges crackdown on impunity for child sex offenders"



And more related to the OP, TheGuardian: "Japan urged to ban manga child abuse images"

Still looks like gravure idols and the likes and not lolicon manga. Big difference and not many will speak against abolishment of the culture that exploits real children and teenagers.

You generally won't see someone reading this stuff on a commuter train

Yeah, but isn't "this stuff" all of manga? Or do mean porn. I believe it's not normal in any society to openly consume any kind of porn in public.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

why do we have this monthly thread when all it is is people who dont actually care saying "good thats gross" and anyone defending it being instantly dismantled because it is impossible and ridiculous to defend lolicon on this forum

these threads are an actual example of the circlejerks that people usually exaggerate about gaf having. why not just ban discussion of lolicon and call it a day

Because people like this --

eh who needs freedom of artistic expression anyway

drawings are hurting real children somehow

-- exist on this forum. And since the mods won't just blanket ban people like this for some reason, we make these catharsis threads.

But don't worry about it. Total free expression is as far as I know only a right in the United States, and it probably isn't going to last. People clearly don't deserve it.

 

[ponpo]

The title as it is seems very loaded (stop doing this ponpo!)

Blame the sources ( ≖‿&#8790

 

[G.ZZZ]

Maud de Boer-Buquicchio's investigation highlights a serious problem in Japan.

Japan Times: "U.N. rapporteur urges crackdown on impunity for child sex offenders"



And more related to the OP, TheGuardian: "Japan urged to ban manga child abuse images"

Your last quote is talking about real children, not depicted ones:

According to Japanese police, the number of under-18s who featured in sexually abusive images rose to a record high of 383 in the first half of this year, up 58 from the year before. Action was taken against 659 people in 831 cases, the highest numbers since twice-yearly records began in 2000, according to a preliminary report issued by the national police agency last month. About 90% of the victims were female, including 60 who were of elementary school age or younger.

What strike me the most is how bad the Japanese justice system seems to be by reading articles on it.

 

[Forgive Me]

Because people like this --

-- exist on this forum. And since the mods won't just blanket ban people like this for some reason, we make these catharsis threads.

so its a honeypot to ban people, in your mind

 

[cosmicblizzard]

If theres a direct link between this stuff and real child rape, then hell yeah get rid of it. Otherwise, who cares.

All studies have either been inconclusive, doesn't actually represent desires of the reader, and may or may not act as an outlet (cases for both). There's stuff that can be extrapolated (child sexual abuse cases actually having a VERY steep decline in the years this was introduced), but for the most part there's no hard evidence either way and there are too many question marks and factors involved. I'm inclined to look at the numbers though.

 

[ivysaur12]

Is this the end of third party Vita support?

omg

 

[VARIA]

UN needs to call out the US as well and add child beauty pageants to its list of offenders.

 

[John Kowalski]

lol, yeah, Joyful is the worst isn't he

if gaf banned people because they were bigoted no trans thread would end without half of its population permabanned

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

so its a honeypot to ban people, in your mind

No, it isn't. But I kind of wish it was.

lol, yeah, Joyful is the worst isn't he

I have no idea what kind of person they are. But their existence exposes a serious flaw with Western ideals of individualistic freedom of expression. And I resent that.

 

[Joyful]

Because people like this --
-- exist on this forum. And since the mods won't just blanket ban people like this for some reason, we make these catharsis threads.

id appreciate an avatar quote at least

 

[SugarDaddy]

Rather have 'em fappin' to cartoon kids than real kids or worse, acting on impulses that they might have.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Rather have 'em fappin' to cartoon kids than real kids or worse, acting on impulses that they might have.

I am curious if there's a study that shows this kind of outlet lets potential offenders from actually committing the crime. Same with rape porn fantasies.

 

[BearFlexington]

This would have no legal basis whatsoever. First, thought crime isn't something envisioned in modern legal systems. Pedophilia isn't accepted because childs can't consent and consequentially they can't have sex or anything (with exceptions of both minors and whatever). There is no consent dilemma in cartoons. Banning it would be more alike at banning omosexuality, where adults do things in full consent and it's still banned because it goes against "morality". The gateway argument make no sense either; it made no sense for drugs, it made no sense for games that promote killings, and it make no sense here.

Second, you have no ways to define a child in stylized drawings. What define a child? Being short? I just give it long ears and call it an halfling. Pubes? Plenty of adults shave. Small tits? Plenty of women have no tits. Even if such a ban went in effect, the only thing that would change is that everything would be considered done by adults cosplaying. Sorta like "this work is fiction" and whatever.

There's way more ground to ban actual children models. That has proven disastrously effects on a lot of children's psiche, and i don't think a parent giving consent is a strong enough rebuttal, since we ban most dangerous things from childrens no matter the opinion of the parent. There's a reason that kind of thing is not done anywhere else in the world but japan afaik.

Yeah. What you said. And define "extreme" U.N. people! One tentacle? Two? Are men in kabuki masks extreme!? I don't think so! This is an outrageous attempt at stifling creative exploration. You'll have to pry my manga from my warmish, sticky, dead hands!

 

[Kenstar]

id appreciate an avatar quote at least

You perverted scum with your oversized clothes gap moe/oppai loli ( i cant tell which)avatar, I wish the UN would ban YOU

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Also, the thread title really isn't accurate since manga is mentioned in passing and not given a big focus. The focus is to stop exploitation of real children, which is a much bigger issue. The title as it is seems very loaded (stop doing this ponpo!)

I hate, HATE, when people don't read the actual article. How many people have read it? And the clickbait, lol.


I don't care at all. *shrug* Banning CP would be a start though. Ick.

 

[Forgive Me]

No, it isn't. But I kind of wish it was.

I have no idea what kind of person they are. But their existence exposes a serious flaw with Western ideals of individualistic freedom of expression. And I resent that.

you are a furry right? would you agree that furry art isnt in fact closely tied with people fucking animals?

 

[cosmicblizzard]

UN needs to call out the US as well and add child beauty pageants to its list of offenders.

I support this.

Because people like this --

-- exist on this forum. And since the mods won't just blanket ban people like this for some reason, we make these catharsis threads.

But don't worry about it. Total free expression is as far as I know only a right in the United States, and it probably isn't going to last. People clearly don't deserve it.

You think there's no room for discussion here. Others clearly disagree with you. Calling for bans on a very gray issue isn't going to help progress.

 

[stump sock]

Is that how you feel about Neil Gaiman?

it's largely irrelevant what he's arguing about because child pornography, even the drawn variety, is not covered by "freedom of speech" in the US

(a)In General.—Any person who, in a circumstance described in subsection (d), knowingly produces, distributes, receives, or possesses with intent to distribute, a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that—
(1)
(A) depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and
(B) is obscene; or
(2)
(A) depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex; and
(B) lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value;
or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be subject to the penalties provided in section 2252A(b)(1), including the penalties provided for cases involving a prior conviction.

 

[Condom]

Good. Japan and their Otaku sub-culture have become far too damaging to ignore any longer. Stuff like this needs to be banned to at the very least make it less extreme.

You can still have your normal hentai, just not your 7 yo. Trans-gender child rape hentai (yes this exists, don't know the Japanese name for trans-gender hentai so I'm sorry if I offend anyone by calling it that way) Seems more than reasonable.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

you are a furry right? would you agree that furry art isnt in fact closely tied with people fucking animals?

I wouldn't, at least, not for me. But if I had to completely abandon everything furry related to get rid of this stuff I would do it.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I hate, HATE, when people don't read the actual article. How many people have read it? And the clickbait, lol.


I don't care at all. *shrug* Banning CP would be a start though. Ick.

The beginning of the article talks about it. The rest is about other weird cultural bullshit that is tolerated and accepted.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

you are a furry right? would you agree that furry art isnt in fact closely tied with people fucking animals?

What? Lol.
Edit: Oh, ok then...

 

[-COOLIO-]

Unless this material is correlated with child abuse or some kind of tangibly negative outcome, I would need a better reason to support its ban than "because shit is weird". I imagine this stuff is the only safe outlet that paedophiles have.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

Sexualized images of children aren't postered all over Akihabara but if one wants to go buy a junior idol dvd of some preteen in a bathing suit posing it's still possible.

clothed, "suggestive" images. stuff like swimsuit books and whatnot weren't included in the recent legislation as they're not explicitly nude or engaging in sexual activity.

things like "this is creepy" and "the only people buying this are pedos" aren't enough for them to take action. letter of the law, not the spirit.

This came up in a thread before, I think it was non-nude but sexually provocative photos of children that are legal while possession of child pornograghy was outlawed this year.

Either way, Japan is majorly fucked up when it comes to sexualizing kids.

Ok, thanks for the clear up.

I was thinking legit pornography of children was still allowed.

 

[JDSN]

Is that how you feel about Neil Gaiman?

While a fantastic writer, child porn is child porn, as someone that has read Lost girls and Marquez De Sade there is a difference between a creative imaginative work of art and cartoon child porn.

I am curious if there's a study that shows this kind of outlet lets potential offenders from actually committing the crime. Same with rape porn fantasies.

In small sample studies, as its usually with underdiagnosed illnesses, has shown that consumption of child porn increases the chances of escalation.

 

[Forgive Me]

What? Lol.

taking advantage of an animal is generally accepted as a crime, yet there are plenty of balto porn pictures out there

just trying to see if the logic about censoring things extends past children. for consistencys sake

 

[Condom]

Unless this material is correlated with child abuse or some kind of tangibly negative outcome, I would need a better reason to support its ban than "because shit is weird". I imagine this stuff is the only safe outlet that paedophile have.

Is there research on this or just a theory?