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Vanillaware ran out of money for Unicorn Overlord’s development (as they did for 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim)

darrylgorn

Member
Can't really think of a good reason not to port games to PC from a business standpoint. I look at Vanillaware's back catalog and I see a few games that could be cash cows on Steam. But if Vanillaware just prefers to stick to their guns and run out of money all the time.....

Awkward John Krasinski GIF by Saturday Night Live

It's really perplexing. Even morally, they would be allowing more gamers to enjoy their games.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
My gaming preference spans across all platforms, but I strongly dislike early access games, especially in the single-player genre. Please refrain from suggesting dropping potentially lucrative platforms just for early access.

I also argue that if a developer engages in years of early access before a full release, there should be a substantial discount. It's unfair to platforms that don't receive early access. I know it's challenging, but even if you primarily play on one platform, try to empathize with others who have different preferences.

Once again I never suggested dropping any platform. They’d be crazy to drop Switch or PS5. Even Xbox.

The point of early access is being able to sell the game during its development. I’ve done it several times, and it brings money in to the developer, during the games development.

You’re not receiving these games until they’re finished anyways, so I don’t see why you’d have an issue with it? You wouldn’t be affected.

As for discounts, there’s one to the people who buy during the early access period. They’re the ones who deserve a discount because they’re rolling the dice and buying a game that a developer could potentially walk away from.
As for fairness to players who can’t use early access that’s entirely up to the platform holder.
 

StereoVsn

Member
Or fund a 13 Sentimels port to PC to help fund Unicorn Overlord. Just seems really odd in this day where console manufacturers are increasingly looking to PC for additional revenue that a third party studio like Vanillaware with Sega backing is just ignoring the platform entirely.
Yep, or even port some of their previous games to PC. Odin Sohere, Dragons Crown, etc could do well on PC platform.
 
Don't forget PC game sales in Japan are far lower (per-capita) than US and Europe, so if their games are mostly selling within Asia then the numbers for a PC port might just not add up. PC support is also asking a lot more compared to adding support for console X or Y, all the different PC configurations, operation system versions etc. much larger QA cost involved there.

I'd love for them to release it on PC and be like "oh shit why didn't we do this sooner!" like SEGA did with Persona, but if they literally ran out of money, then you can't berate them for not risking it.
 
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Perrott

Gold Member
How is that a terrible deal? It doesnt cost them anything.

Its awesome that more people can play their games.
It's a terrible deal because most of their games barely sell anything on Xbox, a platform that has educated its userbase into not buying games and just playing what you get on Game Pass. So unless Sega gets a Game Pass deal (which they got for the latest releases of P3P, P4G, P5R and P3R) for their titles, it is simply not worth it at all to release the more niche stuff, such as Vanillaware's games, on Xbox, for the same reasons the majority of AA and sometimes even AAA Japanese titles skip the Xbox platform.

In the case of Unicorn Overlord in particular, the opportunity cost of developing and publishing an Xbox version at launch is too high for the little to non-existent return they'll get from it. They'd be much better off targeting only Switch and PlayStation instead, and these news only reinforce this analysis.

Or why do you think, sticking with Sega, the mainline Yakuza or Persona entries never had contemplated Xbox releases up until Microsoft literally financed the development of such ports?
 
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StereoVsn

Member
Don't forget PC game sales in Japan are far lower (per-capita) than US and Europe, so if their games are mostly selling within Asia then the numbers for a PC port might just not add up. PC support is also asking a lot more compared to adding support for console X or Y, all the different PC configurations, operation system versions etc. much larger QA cost involved there.

I'd love for them to release it on PC and be like "oh shit why didn't we do this sooner!" like SEGA did with Persona, but if they literally ran out of money, then you can't berate them for not risking it.
Their games aren’t selling more in Asia on consoles. And JRPGs (pick a genre within) have been selling quite well on PC side for years now.
 

ssringo

Member
Someone should tell me again... Why are we supposed to feel bad for this moron?
I dont. Not anymore. I love Vanillaware games and used to buy whatever they put out to support them but their decisions regarding platform releases have soured my opinion of them. Keep floundering and barely staying afloat I guess.
 

vagabond-

Neo Member
I wish sega would actually help on the pc ports. Pretty sure George wants to everyone enjoy his team beautiful games but he needs to pay the bills and focus on the japanese market with tight budget

I can see dragons crowns PC doing well with granblue relink success. I love the coop in that game
 

Orbital2060

Member
They have to pay for porting and it’s not clear those costs can be recouped unless Microsoft is either paying for the port or it’s paying for GamePass or both.

Folks just don’t buy a lot of JRPGs on Xbox platform.

It's a terrible deal because most of their games barely sell anything on Xbox, a platform that has educated its userbase into not buying games and just playing what you get on Game Pass. So unless Sega gets a Game Pass deal (which they got for the latest releases of P3P, P4G, P5R and P3R) for their titles, it is simply not worth it at all to release the more niche stuff, such as Vanillaware's games, on Xbox, for the same reasons the majority of AA and sometimes even AAA Japanese titles skip the Xbox platform.

In the case of Unicorn Overlord in particular, the opportunity cost of developing and publishing an Xbox version at launch is too high for the little to non-existent return they'll get from it. They'd be much better off targeting only Switch and PlayStation instead, and these news only reinforce this analysis.

Or why do you think, sticking with Sega, the mainline Yakuza or Persona entries never had contemplated Xbox releases up until Microsoft literally financed the development of such ports?
But wasnt the whole point of that strategic agreement, plus an unknown amount of cash, meant to cover those ports to Xbox?

Thats how Ive rationalised how Yakuza and all of Sega Atlus game since then have launched on Xbox, some of them even on game pass day 1. Because Xbox paid for it.

 
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Perrott

Gold Member
But wasnt the whole point of that strategic agreement, plus an unknown amount of cash, meant to cover those ports to Xbox?

Thats how Ive rationalised how Yakuza and all of Sega Atlus game since then have launched on Xbox, some of them even on game pass day 1. Because Xbox paid for it.
Absolutely, and Sega benefited from such agreement.

But my point, which is in relation to this thread regarding Vanillaware's lack of financing during the latter stages of Unicorn Overlord's development, is that having to release the game on additional consoles SKUs, where the game is not expected to perform well nor being currently subsidized by a Game Pass deal, is not positive to their bottom line. Hence why I called it a terrible deal in my initial post.
 

Agent_4Seven

Tears of Nintendo
I mean, how about porting the whole backlog of their games (most if not all of which are top tier) on PC and fund more projects that way? C'mon, most of their games are almost 20 years old and some of them are trapped on ancient hardware, like Muramasa. It doesn't have to be Vanilla to do the porting work, I'm sure SEGA and ATLUS can figure it out.
 
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StereoVsn

Member
Absolutely, and Sega benefited from such agreement.

But my point, which is in relation to this thread regarding Vanillaware's lack of financing during the latter stages of Unicorn Overlord's development, is that having to release the game on additional consoles SKUs, where the game is not expected to perform well nor being currently subsidized by a Game Pass deal, is not positive to their bottom line. Hence why I called it a terrible deal in my initial post.
Yep, unless SEGA is providing additional funding, which it looks like they aren’t, this is a bad deal for Vanillaware and other devs SEGA/Atlus publish for.

Which again, begs the question, why isn’t SEGA providing more support including help to port to PC. Since unlike Xbox, PC port would make money.
 
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Perrott

Gold Member
Which again, begs the question, why isn’t SEGA providing more support including help to port to PC. Since unlike Xbox, PC port would make money.
I once read that Vanillaware don't want their games to hit PC because they fear their propietary animation technologies and techniques might be reverse engineered or something like that, from either dataminers, modders or the competition.

Weird, but I'd expect anything from a Japanese studio.
 

StereoVsn

Member
I once read that Vanillaware don't want their games to hit PC because they fear their propietary animation technologies and techniques might be reverse engineered or something like that, from either dataminers, modders or the competition.

Weird, but I'd expect anything from a Japanese studio.
I mean PS4 has been hacked, so have been PS2, PS3 and Switch. And they publish there.

That’s some really weird reason, but yeah, could see that out of a small old fashioned Japanese studio.
 

Famipan

Member
I was thinking someone from the west with knowledge in PC game releasing should try to join Vanilla Ware and try to get them to release everything on Steam and Steam Deck including Muramasa.

Ridiculous amounts of money on the table
 
Vanillaware could find a partner to help publish their titles across the whole industry. The have the talent, now they just need the money.
 

Fabieter

Member
Had they done early access on Steam it would have paid for the development.

Maybe while not being on switch and PlayStation for the time being. The userbase thar supported them for 20 years.

You know console players wait years for most pc first games.

Why are people so stubborn about everything being on pc day one? I don't fucking get it.
 

Fabieter

Member
Once again I never suggested dropping any platform. They’d be crazy to drop Switch or PS5. Even Xbox.

The point of early access is being able to sell the game during its development. I’ve done it several times, and it brings money in to the developer, during the games development.

You’re not receiving these games until they’re finished anyways, so I don’t see why you’d have an issue with it? You wouldn’t be affected.

As for discounts, there’s one to the people who buy during the early access period. They’re the ones who deserve a discount because they’re rolling the dice and buying a game that a developer could potentially walk away from.
As for fairness to players who can’t use early access that’s entirely up to the platform holder.

I own numerous ea games on PC, Switch, and PlayStation. When purchasing ea titles for Switch and PlayStation, I always expect significant discounts. If Vanillaware were to introduce a game in early access for a year or two and target pc players, I would strongly advise them against overpricing it (Well its just shitty). I'd even suggest that any Early Access developer mainly focusing on PC should remain PC exclusive. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft should intervene and block those developers if they exploit their audience with high prices and late releases.

I would have access to it anyway but to think that pc should always be some kind of first is something.
 

ANDS

King of Gaslighting
Bleagh.

. . .also, like everyone providing cover for VW in this decision: how does that make sense at all that they can develop (or have someone port) the game for XSX and not for the PC?
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Yeah, I know. Same story with GrimGrimoire. But they can port Dragon's Crown Pro and Odin Sphere: Leifthrasir at the very least.
Those two games already available on PS4 which you can easily played on PS5, Muramasa in other hand is stuck on dead systems and it NEEDS to be ported to modern systems.
 
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Agent_4Seven

Tears of Nintendo
Those two games already available on PS4 which you can easily played on PS5
I've both Dragon's Crown Pro and Odin Sphere: Leifthrasir, but if they'll release them on PC, it'll be way more easier for me to sell the PS5. I don't want to keep the console for just these 2 games, even though I love them so much, it's just completely unreasonable.
Muramasa in other hand is stuck on dead systems and it NEEDS to be ported to modern systems.
Somehow I doubt it'll ever happen.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Vanillaware is literally a studio of 39 people

They have basically always been an indie developer in terms of scale for their entire existence
Small indie company pls understand.
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I would buy Princess Crown, Odin Sphere, Dragon's Crown, Muramasa Demon Blade day 0 if they ported to PC but they either can't develop on it or have a hate boner for it. But we all know they aren't porting any of their games ever. Kind of gave up on that after the Dragon's Crown port to PS4.

Given their history outside of developing a couple games for Nintendo systems they have always developed specifically on Sony devices. I don't see that changing.
 

Zathalus

Member
Not sure how stating that porting your game to PC for additional revenue equals port begging. They probably could have funded this entire game just by putting their back catalog on Steam.
 
I still don't understand why they never ported their best masterpiece aka muramasa demon blade on PS4/PS5 and let it in the dust with Vita/Wii
This. . I own it on vita. And just bought it for my wife's wii from a 2nd hand shop last weekend for $25.
Although had to whip out the wired gamecube controller for it as the wiimote and numchuck wasn't cutting it.

Its an amazing game, same with their other games.
They need cash, how hard would it be to put Muramasa , Odin's sphere and Dragons Crown on current systems. Id buy all of them day 1 on switch.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
You have to admire how much risk they willing to take for sake of their vision. They are type of devs who don’t make sequels and always make new games with new gameplay style with gorgeous artstyle.

They will always have my full support.
Yeah, great dev to support!
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Not sure how stating that porting your game to PC for additional revenue equals port begging. They probably could have funded this entire game just by putting their back catalog on Steam.
Which requires additional funding and risks distracting the team from what they are already focused on.

Sometimes you are dismissive of what supporting PC releases mean and that is well..: port beggish :p.
 

Zathalus

Member
Which requires additional funding and risks distracting the team from what they are already focused on.

Sometimes you are dismissive of what supporting PC releases mean and that is well..: port beggish :p.
Releasing a port of a game like 13 Sentinels is hardly going to break the bank, while the ROI would probably be great. I dont personally care about the games coming to PC or not, as I own them already, but it makes financial sense when you are struggling with funding your game.

Stating that you would make extra money releasing your games on PC is just logical thinking, not port begging.
 

StereoVsn

Member
Maybe while not being on switch and PlayStation for the time being. The userbase thar supported them for 20 years.

You know console players wait years for most pc first games.

Why are people so stubborn about everything being on pc day one? I don't fucking get it.
If you want it to sell, it would be better to have it Day 1. Say it releases in couple of years on Steam at $50/60 (higher outside US). Don’t really think it will have same sales potential?
 

Fabieter

Member
If you want it to sell, it would be better to have it Day 1. Say it releases in couple of years on Steam at $50/60 (higher outside US). Don’t really think it will have same sales potential?

I would argue that the same is true with most early access games focusing on PC. That console sales won't have a chance because its basically old news even if it didn't hit 1.0 yet.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Releasing a port of a game like 13 Sentinels is hardly going to break the bank, while the ROI would probably be great. I dont personally care about the games coming to PC or not, as I own them already, but it makes financial sense when you are struggling with funding your game.

Stating that you would make extra money releasing your games on PC is just logical thinking, not port begging.
In the MS world of spaffing money about maybe, but in a small company you need to stay focused to finish your project especially for highly creative and not bean counter driven studios.

Certainly something they can keep in mind before starting the next project, but adding more platforms does add complexity and costs (as well as risk). Not caring about it one way or the other as you said and trivialising the problem is what may make someone think “PCMR port begging”.
 
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StereoVsn

Member
I would argue that the same is true with most early access games focusing on PC. That console sales won't have a chance because its basically old news even if it didn't hit 1.0 yet.
Eh, that really depends. Do mostly console gamers have a gaming PC? Most likely no.

Plus, not everything needs to go to EA. SEGA and Atlus should have helped with the PC port.
 
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