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[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I think there's a difference between "hey this has more polygons on it" than "whoa, this is exactly like Battlefield on the console!"

Vita doesn't just give better graphics, it gives a console experience on a handheld. The PSP did that too, though at that point we were already moving on from the PS2...and the gimped control scheme further deteriorated the console-like experience.

Is it going to get any of the developers that made the best games on PS3?

its the truth.

Look at any european sales chart for what the last like 8 years. Its singstar baltic hits, buzz french quizz.

sony did the wii long before nintendo.

The mistake they made was to push move on an expensive console when they had ps2.

Are you serious?

 

[Tenck]

A lot of great stuff in these games, specially for people who didn't have a PSP. And they're generally cheap compared to retail games.

Well then 3DS had over 1000 games at launch then.

 

[Ulairi]

its the truth.

Look at any european sales chart for what the last like 8 years. Its singstar baltic hits, buzz french quizz.

sony did the wii long before nintendo.

The mistake they made was to push move on an expensive console when they had ps2.

You're so precious. Never change.

 

[TheNatural]

its the truth.

Look at any european sales chart for what the last like 8 years. Its singstar baltic hits, buzz french quizz.

sony did the wii long before nintendo.

The mistake they made was to push move on an expensive console when they had ps2.

Well if we're talking worldwide in one particular region, Dance Dance Revolution has kicked anythings ass before that, so if you're going to say 'modern' casual in just one particular region, that is #1. And Singstar is non existent in the US if we're talking a worldwide phenomenon in every region, Singstar or Eyetoy or whatever else was not it.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

Is it going to get any of the developers that made the best games on PS3?





Are you serious?

Again yes im serious. You dumb ass.

sony invented the modern casual trash gaming. Long before wii.

You americans simply dont understand how big buzz, singstar etc was in europe.

 

[SamBishop]

I don't expect to see much innovation on Vita, almost everything that can be done with it, has been done either on iOS or DS, unless you mean by using the rear touchpad.

Somehow Nintendo has trained everyone to think that innovation only happens with new, outlandish hardware when it has been precisely Sony's strength to use what they already have. Shadow of the Colossus, for instance, is unlike anything out there even today, yet needed only the PS2 hardware.

Innovation is not something Sony lacks.

This thread has given me the biggest headache. People actually think anything about the Vita ramp up has been anything less than stellar aside from software announcements that will come in spades at GamesCom and TGS? Insane...

 

[Shiggy]

LOL. Are you serious? That's the funniest thing I've heard all day. Sony invented the modern casual market. Hahahahaha.

It's not that far-fetched. Those casual games only made the PS2 this successful over here in Europe. Many of my friends had one here with only SingStar, EyeToy or Buzz!

In my case, I like it because it allows me to play everywhere the game I love in my home console without dumbing it down.

Will you buy those games twice or is "transfarring" for free? If it was, that would be a great feature. Otherwise only few will buy the same game twice if it's not a new experience.

 

[KAL2006]

I think there's a difference between "hey this has more polygons on it" than "whoa, this is exactly like Battlefield on the console!"

Vita doesn't just give better graphics, it gives a console experience on a handheld. The PSP did that too, though at that point we were already moving on from the PS2...and the gimped control scheme further deteriorated the console-like experience.

But it is not about better graphics only

More power allows more gameplay oppurtunities, with more power we can have smart ai, better physics, more expansive worlds, more enemies on screen and etc. Hell the 3DS can't probably do a simple game slike Left 4 Dead becuase it isn't powerful enough, and that games doesn't really have nice graphics. The 3DS probably can't do a game like Assassins Creed or hell maybe it can't do something like Marvel VS Capcom 3 as it has too many characters on screen at once.

It's not just about power though, Vita has more gameplay oppurtunities from it's controls options, it has back touch, capacitive touchscreen and dual analogs. Not only that but some things are superior like their AR capabilities.

Of course it's not just control options either, Vita has more delivery options for games, you can buy Vita games in retail or digital like Uncharted. You can buy small PS suite games like Angry Birds. You can buy PSN/XBLA type games like Super Stradust.

Basically the Vita privides much more options and variety in gameplay, controls, and delivery of games. Also Vita's online and social capabilities is much more superior that allows even ore variety of games, maybe even MMO type games (SOE has hinted a game, Square said they like to make FFXI, Phantasy Star from Sega), I doubt these types of games would work as well on the 3DS.

 

[Tenck]

Again yes im serious. You dumb ass.

sony invented the modern casual trash gaming. Long before wii.

You americans simply dont understand how big buzz, singstar etc was in europe.

I love how to get your point across you have to insult someone.

But it is not about better graphics only

More power allows more gameplay oppurtunities, with more power we can have smart ai, better physics, more expansive worlds, more enemies on screen and etc. Hell the 3DS can't probably do a simple game slike Left 4 Dead becuase it isn't powerful enough, and that games doesn't really have nice graphics. The 3DS probably can't do a game like Assassins Creed or hell maybe it can't do something like Marvel VS Capcom 3 as it has too many characters on screen at once.

It's not just about power though, Vita has more gameplay oppurtunities from it's controls options, it has back touch, capacitive touchscreen and dual analogs. Not only that but some things are superior like their AR capabilities.

Of course it's not just control options either, Vita has more delivery options for games, you can buy Vita games in retail or digital like Uncharted. You can buy small PS suite games like Angry Birds. You can buy PSN/XBLA type games like Super Stradust.

Basically the Vita privides much more options and variety in gameplay, controls, and delivery of games.

If this generation showed us anything, it's that even with lots of power (Xbox360 and PS3) majority of players want the same old thing. That's FPS games that they can get into quickly. Sure the FPS genre has had some stuff added to it, but it's almost always the same.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Again yes im serious. You dumb ass.

sony invented the modern casual trash gaming. Long before wii.

You americans simply dont understand how big buzz, singstar etc was in europe.

I'm sorry, but saying Eyetoy and Singstar created casual gaming when it came out after arcades, Tetris, the Sims, and dozens of others that mattered way more is fucking dumb.

 

[Shiggy]

I love how to get your point across you have to insult someone.

After the responses he received it's understandable. And nonetheless, if he's talking about Europe, he's absolutely right. Nintendo took much of the European PS2 userbase with the Wii.

 

[Ulairi]

But it is not about better graphics only

More power allows more gameplay oppurtunities, with more power we can have smart ai, better physics, more expansive worlds, more enemies on screen and etc. Hell the 3DS can't probably do a simple game slike Left 4 Dead becuase it isn't powerful enough, and that games doesn't really have nice graphics. The 3DS probably can't do a game like Assassins Creed or hell maybe it can't do something like Marvel VS Capcom 3 as it has too many characters on screen at once.

It's not just about power though, Vita has more gameplay oppurtunities from it's controls options, it has back touch, capacitive touchscreen and dual analogs. Not only that but some things are superior like their AR capabilities.

Of course it's not just control options either, Vita has more delivery options for games, you can buy Vita games in retail or digital like Uncharted. You can buy small PS suite games like Angry Birds. You can buy PSN/XBLA type games like Super Stradust.

Basically the Vita privides much more options and variety in gameplay, controls, and delivery of games.

All can be said about the PSP and you're still missing the point. The PSP Vita will not challenge the 3DS. It's going to be released too late and for too much money.

 

[Shiggy]

I'm sorry, but saying Eyetoy and Singstar created casual gaming when it came out after arcades, Tetris, the Sims, and dozens of others that mattered way more is fucking dumb.

Eyetoy and Singstar brought many people to the PS2 who haven't played a game for years or ever. Doubting that these titles were a huge contribution of bringing the casual userbase to PS2 is stupid.

 

[Ulairi]

After the responses he received it's understandable. And nonetheless, if he's talking about Europe, he's absolutely right. Nintendo took much of the European PS2 userbase with the Wii.

Casual gaming didn't start with Europe and didn't start with the PS2.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

I'm sorry, but saying Eyetoy and Singstar created casual gaming when it came out after arcades, Tetris, the Sims, and dozens of others that mattered way more is fucking dumb.

arcades and modern casual gaming is completely different things.

Tetris, the sims are not casual trash like wiisports, buzz, eyetoy or kinect.

 

[walking fiend]

Somehow Nintendo has trained everyone to think that innovation only happens with new, outlandish hardware when it has been precisely Sony's strength to use what they already have. Shadow of the Colossus, for instance, is unlike anything out there even today, yet needed only the PS2 hardware.

Innovation is not something Sony lacks.

This thread has given me the biggest headache. People actually think anything about the Vita ramp up has been anything less than stellar aside from software announcements that will come in spades at GamesCom and TGS? Insane...

Of course not. I think you missed what I replied to, I was merely commenting about 'hardware based' innovation, I don't categorize Shadow of Colossus as hardware based innovation, we will definitely see innovative games that use touchscreen which weren't on DS, but I don't really believe that we will see much innovation because of the back touch, which is the only new hardware feature of PSV. Although I confess that we have no other multi touch device with buttons, so there we may see a lot of interesting hardware based innovation, I didn't think of that to be honest.

 

[Tenck]

After the responses he received it's understandable. And nonetheless, if he's talking about Europe, he's absolutely right. Nintendo took much of the European PS2 userbase with the Wii.

All he got was a "are you serious?" That doesn't really deserve an insult.

I'm sorry, but saying Eyetoy and Singstar created casual gaming when it came out after arcades, Tetris, the Sims, and dozens of others that mattered way more is fucking dumb.

And this man has a point. There have been casual games that have sold much more than Eyetoy and Singstar way before they ever came out.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

All can be said about the PSP and you're still missing the point. The PSP Vita will not challenge the 3DS. It's going to be released too late and for too much money.

Are you from the future? You know what released late? The Wii. I am not saying the Vita will be like the Wii, but you never know how the market will react.

 

[fernoca]

sony invented the modern casual trash gaming. Long before wii.

You americans simply dont understand how big buzz, singstar etc was in europe.

The game(s) may have been big in Europe (that's a well known fact); but it doesn't mean that they "invented" casual gaming. For example, Karaoke Revolution was released in the US a year earlier than Singstar (2003 vs 2004).

 

[Shiggy]

Casual gaming didn't start with Europe and didn't start with the PS2.

He meant it literally...of course, there were games in the past that were played by many people. But it was not until the PS2 that so many people started playing these titles. You never wondered why there is no system that sold as good as the PS2 in Europe apart from the Wii?

 

[KAL2006]

I love how to get your point across you have to insult someone.

If this generation showed us anything, it's that even with lots of power (Xbox360 and PS3) majority of players want the same old thing. That's FPS games that they can get into quickly. Sure the FPS genre has had some stuff added to it, but it's almost always the same.

I disagree, the 360/PS3 has much more games and variety than Wii, and that is because of it's power. the wii just can't do a game like Left 4 Dead or a game like Assassins Creed. With the DS it was weaker than PSP but it had more control options and casual appeal which allowed more variety of games than PSP.

All can be said about the PSP and you're still missing the point. The PSP Vita will not challenge the 3DS. It's going to be released too late and for too much money.

Not really, PSP is nothing like Vita, it was restricted, lacked a proper online store, lacked control options and etc. The only thing it had over DS was power.

 

[TheNatural]

Eyetoy and Singstar brought many people to the PS2 who haven't played a game for years or ever. Doubting that these titles were a huge contribution of bringing the casual userbase to PS2 is stupid.

No one said anything about doubting, saying they 'invented' it is complete and utter bullshit. First off, it wasn't even a worldwide phenomenon, it was located in just one region. And if we're comparing what took over one region alone, DDR did that stuff a long time before Singstar ever came along in Japan. And depending on what you classify as a casual game, and what is 'modern', The Sims as a worldwide phenomenon was there as well. Saying invented anything though with regards to Sony and Singstar is a joke however.

 

[Kilrogg]

arcades and modern casual gaming is completely different things.

Tetris, the sims are not casual trash like wiisports, buzz, eyetoy or kinect.

That's one flawless argument right there if I ever saw one.

 

[walking fiend]

He meant it literally...of course, there were games in the past that were played by many people. But it was not until the PS2 that so many people started playing these titles. You never wondered why there is no system that sold as good as the PS2 in Europe apart from the Wii?

I believe if launches aligned, HD consoles are actually selling as much as PS2 combined, maybe more? So actually HD is as successful as PS2.

 

[yurinka]

After the responses he received it's understandable. And nonetheless, if he's talking about Europe, he's absolutely right. Nintendo took much of the European PS2 userbase with the Wii.

And Sony with Move. Move is the legacy of these games, and I think even created by the same guys, too (SCEE London I think).

 

[Shiggy]

Are you from the future? You know what released late? The Wii. I am not saying the Vita will be like the Wii, but you never know how the market will react.

While you do not say that the Vita will be like the Wii, this is also pretty unlikely. The Wii had a title directed at the mass market right from the beginning, the Vita seems to be the hardcore machine for the people who bought the PS3 for 599 €.

 

[SamBishop]

Eyetoy and Singstar brought many people to the PS2 who haven't played a game for years or ever. Doubting that these titles were a huge contribution of bringing the casual userbase to PS2 is stupid.

While I absolutely agree that SingStar and Buzz were huge over in Europe, the real casual boom happened with Guitar Hero.

 

[fernoca]

No one said anything about doubting, saying they 'invented' it is complete and utter bullshit. First off, it wasn't even a worldwide phenomenon, it was located in just one region. And if we're comparing what took over one region alone, DDR did that stuff a long time before Singstar ever came along in Japan. And depending on what you classify as a casual game, and what is 'modern', The Sims as a worldwide phenomenon was there as well. Saying invented anything though with regards to Sony and Singstar is a joke however.

Exactly.
Casual gaming as a "term" has been around for decades (it was even used around the Pokemon launch-craze in the 90s), That Sony found success in that market in Europe with thsoe releases is one thing, but that they created/invented the genre is another (and complete opposite and not releated to their relative success).

 

[Shiggy]

No one said anything about doubting, saying they 'invented' it is complete and utter bullshit. First off, it wasn't even a worldwide phenomenon, it was located in just one region. And if we're comparing what took over one region alone, DDR did that stuff a long time before Singstar ever came along in Japan. And depending on what you classify as a casual game, and what is 'modern', The Sims as a worldwide phenomenon was there as well. Saying invented anything though with regards to Sony and Singstar is a joke however.

Then let's say they brought casual gamers to consoles with those titles. That was the case in Germany at least...

And Sony with Move. Move is the legacy of these games, and I think even created by the same guys, too.

They didn't get any new gamers with that...isn't Move pretty much the opposite of a success?

 

[Shiggy]

While I absolutely agree that SingStar and Buzz were huge over in Europe, the real casual boom happened with Guitar Hero.

Worldwide? Yes. In Europe most of the casual gamers had the Sony games as they were great party games, much better than Guitar Hero as they did not need any skills.

I believe if launches aligned, HD consoles are actually selling as much as PS2 combined, maybe more?

Could be, but Microsoft is cracking the casual market only right now with Kinect.

 

[Tenck]

I disagree, the 360/PS3 has much more games and variety than Wii, and that is because of it's power. the wii just can't do a game like Left 4 Dead or a game like Assassins Creed. With the DS it was weaker than PSP but it had more control options and casual appeal which allowed more variety of games than PSP.

The FPS genre has broken so many sales records that other genres can't touch (except for a very few). I'm not saying there's not more variety, but if there's too much focus on FPS this generation, you have a clue as to what the biggest demographic market, then there's not much to disagree on.

 

[strem]

We will see the Vita do fine in Japan but have a tougher time here in America. Nintendo still has the kid market which is huge for handhelds. The 3DS hasn't caught fire yet but I have a feeling come Xmas time that is going to change

 

[TheNatural]

If you want to say 'casual games' to one console in one region, sure. But it's all been done before depending on how you define what a casual game is. Crediting Sony with the casual craze is a ridiculous assertion by any metric though based off of a series of games in ONE region.

Then let's say they brought casual gamers to consoles with those titles. That was the case in Germany at least...




They didn't get any new gamers with that...isn't Move pretty much the opposite of a success?

 

[Alexios]

Eyetoy and Singstar brought many people to the PS2 who haven't played a game for years or ever. Doubting that these titles were a huge contribution of bringing the casual userbase to PS2 is stupid.

Moving the goal posts as usual I see. People laughed at the claim that Sony invented casual gaming, which is something that has existed in varying degrees pretty much since video games were commercialised. They didn't laugh at someone who merely said they had success with casual games on their platforms and themselves expanded the video games market in the past. Neither PS1 nor PS2 would have been that massive if they had not done that (which is why it was funny to see people hate Nintendo as if they go against gaming when a few years ago the so called hardcore gamers hated Sony for the same reason, attracting those that were now themselves gamers and hated on Nintendo). Noone attempted to credit the Wii for being the first to attempt (and succeed with) casual games, of which Nintendo made many long before the Wii anyway. It's credited with once again creating conditions that further expanded the market in a big way in various demographics. The marked expanded before, and will probably expand again in the future when someone figures out how to do it. Perhaps Apple can be credited for that already, time will tell. Edit: beaten badly but whatever, you persisted anyway.

 

[yurinka]

They didn't get any new gamers with that...isn't Move pretty much the opposite of a success?

They sold like 9 millons of Move controlles in the first few months. And some devs hinted that PS4 will have an evolved version of it, like happens with Kinect. Is it a failure?

 

[Kandinsky]

Its like NDS and PSP never happened lol oh gaf you so silly.

 

[Shiggy]

If you want to say 'casual games' to one console in one region, sure. But it's all been done before depending on how you define what a casual game is. Crediting Sony with the casual craze is a ridiculous assertion by any metric though based off of a series of games in ONE region.

Based on the sales and success the series had in Europe, I don't see anything wrong with Sony starting the casual craze on consoles in Europe. But maybe you would've needed to experience it to understand what it was.

They sold like 9 millons of Move controlles in the first few months. And some devs hinted that PS4 will have an evolved version of it, like happens with Kinect. Is it a failure?

Didn't know that, you just don't hear much about Move when everybody's talking about Kinect. For sure, they have yet to reach the Singstar/Eyetoy/Wii gamers. Maybe it's just too similar to the Wii Remote to buy it.

 

[Loudninja]

They sold like 9 millons of Move controlles in the first few months. And some devs hinted that PS4 will have an evolved version of it, like happens with Kinect. Is it a failure?

Same with Home people tend to ignore its success for some odd reason.

 

[SamBishop]

Worldwide? Yes. In Europe most of the casual gamers had the Sony games as they were great party games, much better than Guitar Hero as they did not need any skills.

Yeah, worldwide, sorry. It was definitely the catalyst for the modern, social kind of casual play that Nintendo capitalized on so well. The actual definition of a casual player has been tugged and widened so many times in recent years, though, as to make it all but pointless as a definable term.

In any even, this is a thread about the Vita and 3DS, and I don't want to contribute to the derail. Both systems will do very well in a few years precisely because they can offer experiences cell phones can't. The Vita is infinitely more prepared to absorb some of the mobile experiences, though.

 

[walking fiend]

They sold like 9 millons of Move controlles in the first few months. And some devs hinted that PS4 will have an evolved version of it, like happens with Kinect. Is it a failure?

I think it shipped, sold much much less.

Could be, but Microsoft is cracking the casual market only right now with Kinect.

well, my point is those who bought PS2 weren't actually casual gamers, that is why HD gaming is so popular, it is selling to those core gamers who owned PS2.

How much did casual titles on PS2 sell anyway?

---
Anyway, Nintendo is a sneaky bastard, I remember that I used to play River Raid with my mom, then when Atari died, it's simple games with its simple controller died along and Nintendo marched upon its corpse. So even if they are the ones who revived casual gaming, they were the ones who killed it first, so fuck you for killing casual one button gaming for almost two decades.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

Exactly.
Casual gaming as a "term" has been around for decades (it was even used around the Pokemon launch-craze in the 90s), That Sony found success in that market in Europe with thsoe releases is one thing, but that they created/invented the genre is another (and complete opposite and not releated to their relative success).

No casual trash is not the same as popular games.

casual trash are games that made for and marketed to people who dont play games, dont understand games, who did not grow up with games. Its a new genre. Usually with some sort of peripheral that looks like something out of the real world.

some of them are decent like guitar hero or singstar. But the vast majority of them are complete shit like most of kinect, buzz, eyetoy, wiisports and so on.

Sony did invent this new genre with buzz and the likes.

nintendo took the idea and made a console out of it.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Battlefield 2 invented shooters.

 

[The Technomancer]

some of them are decent like guitar hero or singstar. But the vast majority of them are complete shit like most of kinect, buzz, eyetoy, wiisports and so on.

Sony did invent this new genre with buzz and the likes.

nintendo took the idea and made a console out of it.

?

Or hell, I'm sure you can find similar examples back on the old Atari consoles dude.

 

[fernoca]

No casual trash is not the same as popular games.

casual trash are games that made for and marketed to people who dont play games, dont understand games, who did not grow up with games. Its a new genre. Usually with some sort of peripheral that looks like something out of the real world.

some of them are decent like guitar hero or singstar. But the vast majority of them are complete shit like most of kinect, buzz, eyetoy, wiisports and so on.

Sony did invent this new genre with buzz and the likes.

nintendo took the idea and made a console out of it.

Oh..I see!
Ah, silly me for thinking your arguments were based on actual things; when it was just bullshit. My bad!

 

[Sennorin]

I don´t think anyone is trying to say that the PSV doesn´t offer new ways of playing games on the go. As a 3DS-owner, I wished I´d have dual analogs. But I think people are wrong when they´re naming this kind of stuff as reasons *for* the PSV selling. Not a single casual gamer (and those make the important majority of consumers) is going to say "woah, dual analogs, I have to buy that!". Again, games. Same goes for the 3DS.

Somehow Nintendo has trained everyone to think that innovation only happens with new, outlandish hardware when it has been precisely Sony's strength to use what they already have. Shadow of the Colossus, for instance, is unlike anything out there even today, yet needed only the PS2 hardware.

Innovation is not something Sony lacks.

Innovation is not something Sony lacks, but SotC is *not* an example for that. A mediocre action-adventure isn´t innovative.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

?

Or hell, I'm sure you can find similar examples back on the old Atari consoles dude.

im sure you can.

that nes matt is a much better example.

 

[walking fiend]

Innovation is not something Sony lacks, but SotC is *not* an example for that. A mediocre action-adventure isn´t innovative.

Man this thread gives cancer, from any side...

 

[Shiggy]

I think it shipped, sold much much less.


well, my point is those who bought PS2 weren't actually casual gamers, that is why HD gaming is so popular, it is selling to those core gamers who owned PS2.

How much did casual titles on PS2 sell anyway?

Singstar sold 16 mio in Europe alone by early 2009, you may add another few million as they put out more editions since then. Eyetoy sold more than 10 mio.

 

[Alexios]

?

Or hell, I'm sure you can find similar examples back on the old Atari consoles dude.

His newfangled personal interpretation of what a casual game is or what Wii did is dumb to begin with (to put it mildly) but you can even bring up examples that go against his "invention" statement that are far more recent, and more similar. Such as Konami's Dance Dance Revolution on the PS1 in '98. Maybe he was even born by then.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

Oh..I see!
Ah, silly me for thinking your arguments were based on actual things; when it was just bullshit. My bad!

i see what you did there.

cat.gif