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[Ghost of Caelid]

One of the major criticisms of ER is reused bosses but also reused assets from previous games. Example the asylum demon becoming tree sentinel or the silver knights becoming crucible knights. Why is it bad for developers to take old assets, and repurpose them if it only improves or adds to the content / value of the game for the gamer. In the example of ER many of the main bosses are completely new but the side content utilizes assets from their previous game. It seems like a good way to cut down massively on development time and adds to the berth of content for a game if instead of creating everything from scratch just reusing what was already there. I know this is common sense to most but one of the criticisms of “this is just x from old game” seems like the worst kind of nitpick.

 

[Captain Toad]

Not every game can live up to the high standard of Breath of the Wild where ALL three enemy types in the game were created from scratch!

 

[Fart Knight]

Enlighten us EverydayBeast

 

[RoboFu]

Not every game can live up to the high standard of Breath of the Wild

True.. so true..

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I think anyone bitching about things like that in Elden Ring are pretty clearly scraping the bottom of the barrel for GOTCHA ammunition.

Then again

I think anyone who gets worked up about someone having a different or lesser opinion of a piece of media that they like needs to touch grass.

 

[Jennings]

It takes a keen eye to spot one butt stomp carry over. The sorts of people who would notice this aren't the types that need to be mollified anyway. It was a welcome bit of nostalgia for me.

 

[Swift_Star]

One of the major criticisms of ER is reused bosses but also reused assets from previous games. Example the asylum demon becoming tree sentinel or the silver knights becoming crucible knights. Why is it bad for developers to take old assets, and repurpose them if it only improves or adds to the content / value of the game for the gamer. In the example of ER many of the main bosses are completely new but the side content utilizes assets from their previous game. It seems like a good way to cut down massively on development time and adds to the berth of content for a game if instead of creating everything from scratch just reusing what was already there. I know this is common sense to most but one of the criticisms of “this is just x from old game” seems like the worst kind of nitpick.

I barely see this complain when it comes to ER, other games, though, are trashed for it. ER gets a pass for everything.

 

[ShirAhava]

NeoGaf has a lazy dev defense force now?

Madden should just use the crowds from ten years ago I mean why bother to update anything at all!

Nothing wrong with expecting modern assets in a modern game

If the end user does not demand a certain level of quality and advancement with each iteration in a series who will

I think its a valid criticism

 

[fart town usa]

I barely see this complain when it comes to ER, other games, though, are trashed for it. ER gets a pass for everything.

Is it a pass though or is it just people saying, "who gives a shit?" A pass would imply there's something inherently wrong with recycling assets, just seems like most people don't care.

I'm not familiar with other games that have received criticism for recycling assets and if people are upset with those games, it might be the same people who have issue with ER doing it. If that's the case, then it's just a group of gamers who notice these things and deem it a problem. Meanwhile, everyone else just doesn't care or view it as an issue.

 

[AJUMP23]

I have no issue with it. I reuse stuff in my industry all the time.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

Because they're seen as shortcuts. Mainly symbolic, but they can also be indicative of crunch issues, lack of resources, poor management, etc.

Go look at Demon's Souls and Elden Ring and you'll realize that many of the animations are still present. If it ain't broke, amirite?

 

[Punished Miku]

Why is it bad for developers to take old assets, and repurpose them if it only improves or adds to the content / value of the game for the gamer.

Because it's a deceptive way to resell you something you've probably already paid for and played in the past. It's a spectrum and every consumer will have to decide for themselves where they fall on it.

At one end of the spectrum you have EA Sports titles with some games just rereleasing at full price with the same game and roster updates - sometimes with even less features than previous entries, and at the other end of the spectrum you have an original, new title. The further away you are from comparisons to EA Sports the better, typically.

This doesn't mean that you can't play games with reused assets, as long as you are just acknowledging what the game is. Strangers in Paradise is largely seen as a Nioh reskin with mediocre review scores, but I'm still enjoying it. There's some stuff reused, but also a lot of new content as well. Breath of the Wild 2 will have some reused elements for sure, but hopefully adds a lot of new stuff. If it's done well, then it's less of an issue. But in the case of Souls games, since the OP brings it up - it is definitely starting to feel a little excessive now with so many of their games being extremely similar in more ways than can be listed; even on multiple new IPs; not just direct sequels. It sorta stings when you find out all the hidden ways that it's also exactly the same that you didn't notice initially.

I think anyone bitching about things like that in Elden Ring are pretty clearly scraping the bottom of the barrel for GOTCHA ammunition.

I'm shocked to see this kind of take on here. Completely shocked.

 

[StateofMajora]

*looks at username*

Nothing if it's justified with a unique and great game.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Because it's a deceptive way to resell you something you've probably already paid for and played in the past. It's a spectrum and every consumer will have to decide for themselves where they fall on it.

At one end of the spectrum you have EA Sports titles with some games just rereleasing at full price with the same game and roster updates - sometimes with even less features than previous entries, and at the other end of the spectrum you have an original, new title. The further away you are from comparisons to EA Sports the better, typically.

This doesn't mean that you can't play games with reused assets, as long as you are just acknowledging what the game is. Strangers in Paradise is largely seen as a Nioh reskin with mediocre review scores, but I'm still enjoying it. There's some stuff reused, but also a lot of new content as well. Breath of the Wild 2 will have some reused elements for sure, but hopefully adds a lot of new stuff. If it's done well, then it's less of an issue. But in the case of Souls games, since the OP brings it up - it is definitely starting to feel a little excessive now with so many of their games being extremely similar in more ways than can be listed; even on multiple new IPs; not just direct sequels. It sorta stings when you find out all the hidden ways that it's also exactly the same that you didn't notice initially.


I'm shocked to see this kind of take on here. Completely shocked.

It's probably going to shock you more when I say that I've never played a Soulsborne game past the Tower Knight in the original Demon's Souls.

Disagree with me, but From fanboy I am not.

 

[Notabueno]

Mediocrity, more mediocrity everywhere.

Thread like this are asking for 80$ GaaS with reused glitched and imbalance, not assets, milk the degenerates I say.

 

[Tazzu]

Don't worry, ER will not affect BotW2 reviews.

 

[Zeroing]

I only saw that issue talked about on a video and the issue was not because it was reused but because the attack moves were not tweaked

 

[March Climber]

I only saw that issue talked about on a video and the issue was not because it was reused but because the attack moves were not tweaked

This and also that fact that it was done a bit too many times. I like when Japanese games do the thing where they make you fight an older boss you had trouble with later in the game to prove how powerful you are. However, Elden Ring just did it like 4 to 5 times too many. Regardless, it's still an amazing game and this is at the bottom of my criticisms about the game.

 

[Shifty]

I have no great issue with the Erdtree Avatar being the Asylum Demon, or other cases of enemies from previous games being given a new appearance and some tweaks. For that one in particular, it's been multiple games since we saw its animation set, so it seems more of a 'huh how about that' than a real negative point against the game.

That point applies to weapon movesets too - they've been refined and changed around in some cases, but many of those movesets are still fundamentally recognizable as ones from earlier entries. Again, I don't see that as a big issue - on some level it would disappoint if the fundamental stuff was changed beyond recognition.

However, I think it's important to make a distinction between repurposing assets from previous games, and reusing assets within the same game. Particularly in the case of Elden Ring since it does both, and by extension the conversation around the topic touches on both as well.

The most obvious case for this is the catacombs - dungeon after dungeon of the same boxy grey rooms and limited enemy set. The caves also suffer from this, though less so by virtue of being more natural environments that are harder to pick out as duplicates. I was noticing those by the latter half of my first (very much not 100%) playthrough, but now I'm on my second it's becoming a lot more obvious.

Reused bosses are also an issue - Ulcerated Tree Spirit is an intense and memorable encounter the first time round, but is cheapened the second, third, fourth, etc times you encounter it elsewhere. That goes doubly for bosses like Astel, Naturalborn of the Void - a unique mainline-tier boss that reappears in an overworld dungeon later on, with seemingly no precedent outside of needing something to put in the boss room.

Overall it's not a deal breaker given that ER is the most well-crafted open world I've seen, but my preference is and always has been for unique content, even if it's at the cost of volume.

It comes down to that feeling of something being cheapened by repetition - consider the difference between a weapon in Devil May Cry and a weapon in Diablo. In Devil May Cry, each weapon in completely unique in design, moveset and - in some cases literal - personality; finding one and using it feels special and distinct. Conversely, a weapon in Diablo is literal pocket change - the fact that it's a Broadsword of Greater Ass Whooping doesn't matter because there are a potentially infinite number of Broadswords of Greater Ass Whooping to be found; the excitement comes from the stats and effects it acts as a vehicle for rather than being intrinsic to the item itself, and thus the item itself ceases to matter.

Generalize that idea up to assets, level layouts, bosses, whatever you like, and you get the idea.

 

[ANDS]

One of the major criticisms of ER is reused bosses but also reused assets from previous games. Example the asylum demon becoming tree sentinel or the silver knights becoming crucible knights. Why is it bad for developers to take old assets, and repurpose them if it only improves or adds to the content / value of the game for the gamer. In the example of ER many of the main bosses are completely new but the side content utilizes assets from their previous game. It seems like a good way to cut down massively on development time and adds to the berth of content for a game if instead of creating everything from scratch just reusing what was already there. I know this is common sense to most but one of the criticisms of “this is just x from old game” seems like the worst kind of nitpick.

Reusing content from previous game? Not a huge deal if it fits within the games narrative. Fighting ANOTHER fucking Magma Wyrm. . .yeah just cut this part then.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Don't worry, ER will not affect BotW2 reviews.

Assets reuse will suddenly become a VERY important matter when BOTW2 hits.

Of all the criticism leveraged at ER, this one seems really bottom-of-the-barrel, but so is making YET ANOTHER Elden Ring thread to scoff at this . ER isn’t perfect and not everyone will give it a 10/10 and hail it as GOTG, guys. Make peace with this already. What’s next, a new thread every 100,000 copies sold? A new thread for every frame of the inevitable DLC trailer? A thread comparing the price of said DLC vs any other game’s DLC? Shit’s tiring. The game doesn’t need your defense.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

I have no beef with reused assets from one game to another. In the 90s, Capcom and SNK were notorious for reusing assets in their fighting games. Yet I enjoyed them all.

The Yakuza series has been using some of the same NPC animations since Yakuza *3*. Yet I enjoy all of those games.

 

[Dick Jones]

Reused assets as a rule are fine. However if it's the same animation used to enter a boat, then that's another story.

 

[Stuart360]

I dont think there is anything wrong with reusing assets in this way as at least they change the look of said assets. Ubisoft does it too with their games (there was so much cross game assets used between AC Origins and Odyssey).
Plus its not really easy to tell with Eldern Ring. I think there was many more assets shared between DS3 and Bloodborne. Plus they are assets made by themselves, or support studios, not assets bought from an asset store like the asset flippers on Steam.

 

[MudoSkills]

I remember hoping that the high quality demon assets from Persona 5 were going to see us return to the bountiful days of Atlus RPGs on PS2. Instead they mainly just used them for Royal.

 

[Fbh]

Sure it can feel a bit cheap.
But personally as long as it's not a ridiculous amount I don't really care. Has never bothered me in FROM games and I actually think not working with insane AAA production values is one of their strengths as it allows them to take more risks by designing games that don't need to sell 8+ million units to break even, and it has allowed them to continue releasing awesome games at a steady pace (on Ps4 they released DS3, Bloodborne, Sekiro and Elden Ring in the time frame it takes some AAA devs to release one game)

Some people here are too whiny and unreasonable, they want games with insane next gen graphics, Rockstar level of attention to detail, zero reused assets, tons of content, no microtransactions, releasing on a steady 3 years cycle and for no more than $60 while simultaneously offering unique experiences that don't feel overly focus tested or like they are chasing popular trends.

The Yakuza series has been using some of the same NPC animations since Yakuza *3*. Yet I enjoy all of those games.

Lol yeah Yakuza is the recycling king.
It's not just assets, they''ve been recycling the same Kamurocho map for like 15+ years.

Still love them though.

 

[Hollowpoint5557]

Getting an early start at calming the God of War Ragnarok criticism that's sure to abound on its release are we?

 

[brian0057]

Reusing assets is a good way of saving resources and speeding development without having to make literally everything in the game from scratch.
So, naturally, people hate it. They want companies to burn millions and put the fate of their business on just one game because they don't like seeing the same texture, hear the same tune, or play with the same model twice.

Thief II: The Metal Age is the greatest stealth game of all time and it's literally the same assets and engine as The Dark Project.
Bitching about asset reuse is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

[MiguelItUp]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with reusing assets IMO, it just depends on how they're used, or implemented. If it's lazy, you can tell. But if it's far from lazy, then I really don't see it being an issue. Especially if reused assets are a part of something that's much larger IMO. I suppose the "lazy" part is subjective, but if the project in discussion is clearly a huge passion project, then hey, whatever.

 

[Shining Star]

Nothing wrong with them, they make making the game easier.

 

[Edgelord79]

Bitching about asset reuse is scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

Without asset reuse there would be complaining about other parts of games that weren’t up to snuff because they were too busy constantly making new assets.

In short, people can and will complain about everything.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

Glad people are saying that they don't really care that much.

Because reusing assets allows developers to focus on (what I would argue are) more important things -- like combat and encounter/enemy design. Aren't those supposed to be the more important things in a video game, anyway?

One of the earliest examples is SMB1 and (the original Japanese version of) SMB2. Same Mario sprite. Same goombas, koopa tropas, pipes, etc. But the levels were completely new designs, they were hard as balls, so even though assets were reused I consider SMB2 to be a totally different and awesome experience.

 

[Edgelord79]

Because it's a deceptive way to resell you something you've probably already paid for and played in the past. It's a spectrum and every consumer will have to decide for themselves where they fall on it.

At one end of the spectrum you have EA Sports titles with some games just rereleasing at full price with the same game and roster updates - sometimes with even less features than previous entries, and at the other end of the spectrum you have an original, new title. The further away you are from comparisons to EA Sports the better, typically.

This doesn't mean that you can't play games with reused assets, as long as you are just acknowledging what the game is. Strangers in Paradise is largely seen as a Nioh reskin with mediocre review scores, but I'm still enjoying it. There's some stuff reused, but also a lot of new content as well. Breath of the Wild 2 will have some reused elements for sure, but hopefully adds a lot of new stuff. If it's done well, then it's less of an issue. But in the case of Souls games, since the OP brings it up - it is definitely starting to feel a little excessive now with so many of their games being extremely similar in more ways than can be listed; even on multiple new IPs; not just direct sequels. It sorta stings when you find out all the hidden ways that it's also exactly the same that you didn't notice initially.


I'm shocked to see this kind of take on here. Completely shocked.

People who buy Souls games on the large part are most likely not concerned with this in part the part and care more about the other aspects. I think this is a 1% problem. Also it’s not deceptive at all, gameplay was out for all to see before the game released.

I’m shocked you are shocked at this.

 

[Yoboman]

99% of people wouldn't even know

 

[FeldMonster]

I wish MORE games made use of re-used assets. I thoroughly enjoyed Ocarina of Time being re-mixed into Majora's Mask. It gave me a great game much sooner than I would have otherwise. Likewise, Halo 3: ODST was fantastic, and it used the already mature Halo 3 engine and its assets.

When you play a game you love, do you not want more, and soon?

Developers should use a version of Intel's famed Tick-Tock strategy (Minor update - Major Update, Minor Update - Major Update) from a decade ago.

Unfortunately gamers today have forgotten that gameplay is the most important aspect of gaming.

 

[daveonezero]

That is a slippery slope argument. If that critique is taken to its conclusion every game would have a brand new engine and never reuse any resources.

It is idiotic and a non argument. If they don’t like it they don’t have to play it.

Is this same critique used when most games use humans as enemies and all they do is reskin them with different clothes?

Are they supposed to all have unique skeleton models now?

 

[Craig of War]

99% of people wouldn't even know

 

[Magic Carpet]

I thought this thread would be about the quintillions of iOS asset flip match 3 games.
Carl Sagan impression- Billlllions and Billlllions

 

[Halo is Back]

Depends on how much the game reuses those assets and how little they try to hide them.

 

[nominedomine]

ER has some poor uses of repeated assets, it's understandable but it stands out even if you are not looking for it. All the mines are way to similar for example, at least flip the assets around or put something to disguise that your are using the exact same shaft.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Getting an early start at calming the God of War Ragnarok criticism that's sure to abound on its release are we?

I didn't even think about this...but i hope ragnarok reutalizes the amazing valkaryes in some way...best part of the game...might as well utalize it some how.

 

[Swift_Star]

Getting an early start at calming the God of War Ragnarok criticism that's sure to abound on its release are we?

I’m betting only mindless green rats will criticize this, everyone else will simply play the game.

 

[Swift_Star]

Is it a pass though or is it just people saying, "who gives a shit?" A pass would imply there's something inherently wrong with recycling assets, just seems like most people don't care.

I'm not familiar with other games that have received criticism for recycling assets and if people are upset with those games, it might be the same people who have issue with ER doing it. If that's the case, then it's just a group of gamers who notice these things and deem it a problem. Meanwhile, everyone else just doesn't care or view it as an issue.

It’s a pass when people in forums shit on AC for example. But I don’t think asset reuse is a problem. I think it’s better since it speeds development further.

 

[nemiroff]

One of the major criticisms of ER is reused bosses but also reused assets from previous games.

Really? "Major criticism" huh? First time I've heard anything about that. I reckon it's one of the best games around when it comes to unique enemies and locations.

 

[Tazzu]

Assets reuse will suddenly become a VERY important matter when BOTW2 hits.

Of all the criticism leveraged at ER, this one seems really bottom-of-the-barrel, but so is making YET ANOTHER Elden Ring thread to scoff at this . ER isn’t perfect and not everyone will give it a 10/10 and hail it as GOTG, guys. Make peace with this already. What’s next, a new thread every 100,000 copies sold? A new thread for every frame of the inevitable DLC trailer? A thread comparing the price of said DLC vs any other game’s DLC? Shit’s tiring. The game doesn’t need your defense.

Don't worry, the Nintendo bump will come through even with Zelda cycle.

 

[ReBurn]

I feel like we already talked about this

 

[alabtrosMyster]

I recall in the 8 and 16-bit days no assets were ever re-used!

 

[Esca]

I don't like bosses being reused in a play through, but for end game content sure. If it makes sense in the game to be able to it, that's another thing.
I just like keeping bosses as their own thing, being able to smile back in the moment you killed it. Looking back after you keep killing it isn't the same

 

[ParaSeoul]

Its fine as long as it was done so dev time could be allocated to something more important and with Elden Ring it mostly has.

 

[geary]

I remember when this situation was brought upfront with GoW Ragnarok trailer (boat animation and look). Then there was no issue, but with AC or ER seems to be.