Madserb2023
Member
it's not complicated. You don't need an Xbox to play any of the games. If I could play Nintendo games legally on a PC at higher res and framerate I would not even consider getting a Switch 2.
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What is wrong with the Xbox brand? Exclusives matter
- Thread starter Gamer79
- Start date
RGB'D
Member
I so hope that we can someday say there is no reason to buy a PS because everything is day and date on PC. And then get Nixes crushing those ports and all the fps will be mine in ultrawide glory.
RGB'D
Member
But they made sure to put the asterisk that it isn't console warring. So it's different right?
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anothertech
Member
Dark silicon. Any day now.
Giallo Corsa
Gold Member
Nice post man, kudos.
I have to insist though, those were some truly nice exclusives, it's not about nostalgia, I mean, heck, finished Panzer dragoon Orta 3 times 2 years ago via xbox BC, same with Ninja Gaiden , Otogi etc...
Good games are good games and stand out the test of time
Regarding the XSX/XSS generation, sure mate, there's nice things/features like GP, BC and Quick resume but - and this is the thing - you can have all the nice features in the world but when your software is lacking...dunno, the XSX is the only console i've ever sold, after 2.5 years, i just couldn't anymore with the nth metroidvania/indie game, i just had my fill...
Halo Infinite was...what it was, personally, i found it forgettable, finished it once on Heroic, played about 20 hours of MP and that was it.Flight sim i played for about 8-10 hours until i got bored, it's just a niche title catered towards a very specific demographic.Don't play Forza games (racing games in general).
The Medium and Scorn i enjoyed but they're not exactly games that you buy a console for.
Fun fact : the games i enjoyed more were from the "shitty" XONE era (Quantum break/Ryse son of Rome/Gears 4 + 5/Sunset overdrive/halo 5)
...personal opinion and all that obviously,
Cheerio
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
PaintTinJr
Member
I would say it is as simple as Xbox can never win customer like a Sony or Nintendo or Sega or Atari or Commodore could, because brands inherit all the baggage of their parent company when selling beyond their modest tribal base and Microsoft's success has come from not caring about forcing consumers in the PC space, a tactic which doesn't work in the world of artistic opt-in of gaming. Where Microsoft thought buying publishers was a Microsoft win - which it probably is - the negativity of those moves against the backdrop of having the least compelling organic development of the big three in Xbox makes those land grabs anti-marketing for the Xbox brand and just neon signs the Microsoft baggage behind Xbox.
After the way Microsoft conducted themselves in the most recent acquisition I'm not sure there's anything. short of Xbox providing a paradigm shifting gaming experience, that could get me to opt-in. and I say that as someone that uses Windows more than any other OS and understands why it has been a mainstay for consumers and business for +35years.
It isn't just games that matter. Everything matters, but Xbox are a runt of Microsoft and that isn't getting fixed IMO, they'll never have more compelling games than their rival, and they'll never have the business neutrality/positivity from their parent company to make it count, short of bullying everyone out of the market and being the last-man-standing IMO.
After the way Microsoft conducted themselves in the most recent acquisition I'm not sure there's anything. short of Xbox providing a paradigm shifting gaming experience, that could get me to opt-in. and I say that as someone that uses Windows more than any other OS and understands why it has been a mainstay for consumers and business for +35years.
It isn't just games that matter. Everything matters, but Xbox are a runt of Microsoft and that isn't getting fixed IMO, they'll never have more compelling games than their rival, and they'll never have the business neutrality/positivity from their parent company to make it count, short of bullying everyone out of the market and being the last-man-standing IMO.
Lord Malachite
Member
I couldn't say that they will fix the myriad of problems at ABK, but it's certainly in their best interests to. At this point, CoD is a shadow of its former self. It is possible that PlayStation can develop its own "Cod killer" over the next decade. While I don't for a moment believe that Sony's first party will ever be able to develop a game that will rival the peak of CoD, it doesn't really have to. While PlayStation certainly makes a pretty penny off the back of CoD, at the end of the day, they're only reaping 30% of its revenue on their own platform. If PlayStation could get something going from its first party studios where they get to keep 100% of the money, and it can perform at the level of say The Last Of Us or even Marvel's Spider-Man. then they will be in a good position on that front. This will take a long time to fine tune though. Probably talking several incarnations of a combined SP/MP title, or perhaps they'll try to work some of their live service magic into it. GaaS.When did that ever happen? Microsoft couldn't fix Bethesda's games, their own games, why would they be able to do it with ABK?
If we look at their track record, computer says no. *cough*
Even so, given the track record you've pointed out with Microsoft's management of both its own internal studios and the publishers it has acquired, and the current state of ABK in general, yeah, there's plenty of opportunity for Sony to make some big moves. My concern is the odds seem 50/50 whether or not Sony makes wise choices or foolish ones.
Lord Malachite
Member
It also seems worth noting that after 22 years in the console gaming space, Microsoft still seems to have little to no grasp of what console gamers really want, and after two decades of spinning their wheels they've now simply decided to just buy their way to victory by acquiring gigantic swaths of the market explicitly to cock block their content from their competitors. In most industries, when that happens, anti-trust laws come into play to prevent exactly that. But for some reason all the courts and regulating bodies around the world have decided there's nothing anti-competitive nor anti-consumer for a platform holder to do this. And I don't think it would magically become perfectly okay if it were Sony or Nintendo doing this either. But this is the world we live in now.
Where are the Call of Duty exclusives right now ?
I didn't say they would dominate, it's a little fallacious.
Obviously the situation Xbox is in didn't happen overnight. Let's not pretend Xbox lost everything in 2013. It was certainly something big, but they were at this point, entrenched in the mind of people as you say, and that doesn't go just like that. The decline continued every year after that, and sure there is some inertia in the way those things work, but pretending they had no chance to turn the tides since then ? They certainly did everything so nothing would change that's for sure. I'm talking about producing games, making exclusives (by any means), not making the headlines with acquisitions.
On the contrary, Sony did release a continuous flow of AAA first party games. If they didn't need to invest in such risky games, why would they do that ? Even now they are very agressive with second party and third party partnerships, granted that cost them way less than Microsoft, because they want to annihilate the competitor.
So what you're saying might be true right now, it wasn't always the case, 10 years of void led us to this situation.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
We also have a studio dedicated to a sports game:
Loving all these movie games. Specially Gran Turismo 7.
SEGAvangelist
Gold Member
TBF, current gen hasn't released many good MP games. Name one that is arguably better with as complete a MP package. Most MP games people are playing were released last gen. I suppose you could argue Halo isn't a current-gen game since it's cross-gen, but it was released in the current gen.
The Pleasure
Member
Is he trying to sell me gamepass? Looks like a happy shill.
intheinbetween
Member
Nice post man, kudos.
I have to insist though, those were some truly nice exclusives, it's not about nostalgia, I mean, heck, finished Panzer dragoon Orta 3 times 2 years ago via xbox BC, same with Ninja Gaiden , Otogi etc...
Good games are good games and stand out the test of time
Regarding the XSX/XSS generation, sure mate, there's nice things/features like GP, BC and Quick resume but - and this is the thing - you can have all the nice features in the world but when your software is lacking...dunno, the XSX is the only console i've ever sold, after 2.5 years, i just couldn't anymore with the nth metroidvania/indie game, i just had my fill...
Halo Infinite was...what it was, personally, i found it forgettable, finished it once on Heroic, played about 20 hours of MP and that was it.Flight sim i played for about 8-10 hours until i got bored, it's just a niche title catered towards a very specific demographic.Don't play Forza games (racing games in general).
The Medium and Scorn i enjoyed but they're not exactly games that you buy a console for.
Fun fact : the games i enjoyed more were from the "shitty" XONE era (Quantum break/Ryse son of Rome/Gears 4 + 5/Sunset overdrive/halo 5)
...personal opinion and all that obviously,
Cheerio
OG XBOX demanded MS to do a huge investments resulting in a strong relationship with SEGA and forging some exclusives by acquiring Bungie and Rare, or signing exclusivities resulting in titles such as Otogi, Phantom Dust, SMT Nine, etc.. they also managed to create great first party IPs such as Blinx, Voodoo Vince, Project Gotham Racing, Crimson Skies, etc.. however there were a lot of shovel ware and failed IPs such as Fuzion Frenzy, Sudeki or Brute Force. This was the result of their first step into the console gaming industry, and while they ended up in third place they did it pretty well for a new challenger into this wild industry in which Sony was crushing every competitor. After all XBOX was a niche console gaming option for gamers, they won over many that wanted a something "different", those attracted by the online component, or those who wanted the most powerful console back then, but it wasn't any cool at all it was just the novelty.
When it comes to the 360 era we already know what happened, and probably if it wasn't for Kinect in order to compete with Nintendo going after the casual crowd they would have win that gen, however they preferred to go with the Kinect approach which they extended to the XBO gen, and well we also know what a clusterfuck they did back then until they realized they threw away all the ground they won in the early 360 days.
With this new gen MS is in a much better situation than they were back in the XBO gen. They have released much better games, they have Game Pass, they have acquired two big publishers, they release good first party games every year and also push some exclusive by Game Pass, instead of the old way of signing exclusives. And when it comes to games they have released good games, actually way better than XBO, Psychonauts 2, AoE, Forza Horizon 5, Halo Infinite, As Dusk Falls, Grounded (thou the beta started back with XBO), Pentiment, HiFi Rush, Forza Motorsport, Starfield among others.. Also they signed new partnerships with SEGA and Atlus for example, when ATLUS games were mostly missing on the 360, or even the Yakuza titles.
Time has changed and now exclusives are just few exceptions, most of the titles are multiplatform, so the added value of exclusives is decreasing more and more while on the other hand the new added value resides in live services, and every gamer know hwo valuable is Game Pass or PS+ Extra.
The way I see it is MS is improving the poor situation they were back in the XBO gen, and nowdays XBOX Series is cooler than XBO, but also cooler than OG XBOX.
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Bojji
Member
Nintendo always had those exclusives games, yet N64, GameCube and WiiU sold like shit.
Nintendo finds massive success when they release console targeted at casual/mainstream market. That's exactly what they did with Wii and Switch (and tried with WiiU).
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Serious question is gears of war dead?
mansoor1980
Gold Member
Humdinger
Member
This argument used to hold weight for me, but it doesn't anymore. Although I recognize that objectively, Sony has the upper hand in terms of exclusives, I have been disappointed by their handling of them (Horizon, Uncharted, TLoU, God of War, Ratchet & Clank, and Spider-Man). There are two ways to look at this question -- "objectively" (e.g., sales, metacritic scores, awards) and subjectively (personal preference). Subjectively, I would put MS and Sony on the same level at this point -- neither of them have an exclusive line-up that appeals to me.
Phase
Member
not quite , a movie is coming soon.....................
I don't think a meme movie will help the Gears brand.
Pelta88
Member
The problem with reflecting inward to make a point about consoles/games is that these products have a specified metric for success. A metric which Microsoft, particularly during the 360 era, lauded and promoted. Once Microsoft began to fail and collapse in those metrics, they went through backflips in their quarterly reporting to try and redefine those metrics. The problem with that tactic is that the metrics were too well engrained.
Claiming that "subjectively" MS and Sony are on the same level is a falsehood when compared to the actual market. One is so behind their own low ball projections that internally, they've given themselves until 2027 to right the ship or get out of hardware entirely.
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SmokedMeat
Gamer™
It should be.
SEGAvangelist
Gold Member
Feels like they will start to heat it up next year. I assume we'll see something from The Coalition in June 24, and yeah, that movie is in the works. I think it's good that the franchise has been away for a while. It's good to miss things. Hopefully we get a collection too, as PC could really use a way to play all the games.
Skifi28
Member
If this actually existed, it would be the best bad movie ever made.not quite , a movie is coming soon.....................
That isn’t quite true. The failures of those platforms primarily can be broken down into its proprietary storage and lack of proper third party support.
N64 struggled due to its Cartridges. Many devs moved to disc-based consoles and platforms due to the increased storage capacity.
Gamecube struggled due to its proprietary discs as well and its lack of features compared to PS2/Xbox which could both play DVDs and CDs, both of which were very popular at the time and were growing in popularity.
Wii U sold like shit due to its awful name, mediocre first party titles, and complete lack of quality third party releases. On top of that, many were confused on what the Wii U even *was*, many thinking it was an add-on to the Wii.
It is perfectly OK for people to put Sony and MS on the same level subjectively. That is the entire point of subjective opinions - it is their personal opinion and not an objective fact. I would mimic their claim as I find both Sony and MS to be behind in the first party/exclusive front as neither have impressed me for years, outside of the rare gem like Pentiment or Astrobot.
I do play more on Playstation that I do Xbox simply due to preferring the Trophy system implemented versus the out-of-date Achievement system. Though I certainly would be happy if MS would update and improve their achievement implementation. I always did prefer a grid based icon view versus the long wallpaper list they went with. Separate out the DLC/Add-ons into their own lists as well would be very nice additions.
U n i o n 0015
Member
This pic just shows me all the squandered studio potential and mismanagement, along with 50% of it being images of game protags that no one gives two craps about.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
You’re right that the most played multiplayer games released before the current console gen.
Still, Halo Infinite’s online fell off a cliff. Even on the Xbox where it should do best it’s out of the top ten.
So personally I’d say
Lost Ark
Counter Strike 2
Splatoon 2 and 3
Diablo 4
Hunt Showdown
Sea of Thieves are all bigger
Halo’s not even in the top 100 on Steam.
They’ve put every first party game on PC, and are putting every first party game on Cloud streaming, both moves to de-emphasize a complete reliance on hardware sales.
You insinuating all they’ve done is a redefinition of reporting metrics…that’s not logical at all.
This isn’t backed by anything solid, the actual quote said ‘the gaming business’ not hardware, and Nadella’s been speaking about Microsoft being even more committed to gaming.
post the Activision purchase, circumstances are different, and the investment means they’re likely to remain in the business.
hyperbertha
Member
You 'wish'? You are a raging ps fanboy... You are fooling noone.I only wish Xbox had “boring” exclusives like those titles mentioned
Yet this old man continues playing CoD(no offense)
And yes, the recent psgames like ff16, gow and sm2 were all middle of the road at best...
But it's still way better than xbox... So there's that.
Phase
Member
These games are not new really, which is the sad part. I mean just take the list that you wrote here:
Lost Ark - 4 years old
CS2 - essentially a 20+ year old game
Splatoon - 8 years old, don't know anything about 2 but I'm guessing mp is very similar
D4 - crap
Hunt - 4 years old
SoT - 5 years old
People that are still playing these games have done so for a long time. I'm sure they would jump at a new novel mp experience if they could. We need some new blood!
Pelta88
Member
The problem here is that we're not dealing with subjectivity. These are publicly traded companies with defined objectives and quarterly reports which demonstrate, publicly, their pre-defined strategy and objectives. To equivocate the two is misleading. And goes against the fact. What makes matters worse is that for almost a year, Microsoft has been on a global tour where they themselves, demonstrate that when it comes to comparisons, the two gaming divisions are not the same...
I'm talking about submitted documents to courts and regulators which explicitly state how bad the XB division is failing. Brad Smith himself at one point used the word "collapse" when talking about their shrinking market share and presence in territories beyond the USA Saying "I think" they're on the same level is an outright falsehood.
Just like me saying "I think" 1+1=3 - Despite knowing that it doesn't.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
I'm at 150 hrs in Exoprimal this year.
You need to re-read what the user was stating. They personally felt they were on the same level as neither provided much in terms of entertainment value for them.
That is subjectivity. You are trying to turn their subjective view into an objective one so you can claim they are wrong.
Phase
Member
On steamdb it shows less than 400 ppl total playing, and it's charting further down. This isn't a success, but I'm glad you're enjoying it.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
That's usually how I find the good stuff.
I was just responding to you saying that people are craving new things in multiplayer. I'd argue that the majority of people are craving more of the same and are less open to experimentation than at any point I can remember. However, if you are craving new things - they are out there. At least 6 of my top 10 this year are new IPs.
MasterCornholio
Member
I know we had our differences but please pay attention to the warning.
By perm I don't think they mean a hair treatment.
3liteDragon
Member
Not prioritizing the console, studio management is ass cheeks. But yea let em keep buying up the rest of the industry.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Context of the Brad Smith quote where he said it? A source goes a long way when making broad claims like this.
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MasterCornholio
Member
People buy consoles to play games so there's that. It doesn't matter to many of them that those games are available on PCs.
hinch7
Member
Pretty much. Xbox just isn't a popular or well sorted brand, much like Microsoft's own consumer based products. Its just their PC stuff is mandatory for business, work and education.
Given how they are just taking 'exclusives' from otherwise what would be third party.. doesn't, and won't move the needle in their favor. Even if MS decides to pull COD from PlayStation in 10+ years. TES VI releases, plus other big Bethesda+ABK titles the end result will still be the same.
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DeaDPo0L84
Member
I see post like this and am reminded people like you can vote
King Dazzar
Member
For me XSX shines with its last generation enhancements, carried on over from the X1X, with the addition in some cases of having Auto HDR too. Having an advantage over some of those same titles on the PS. Which are relying on the PS4 Pro lesser enhancements. But beyond that, I dont think I've anything more recent installed anymore. The haptics and adaptive triggers have me buying everything on the PS5 instead. The promised performance advantage of the XSX just hasnt materialised.Nice post man, kudos.
I have to insist though, those were some truly nice exclusives, it's not about nostalgia, I mean, heck, finished Panzer dragoon Orta 3 times 2 years ago via xbox BC, same with Ninja Gaiden , Otogi etc...
Good games are good games and stand out the test of time
Regarding the XSX/XSS generation, sure mate, there's nice things/features like GP, BC and Quick resume but - and this is the thing - you can have all the nice features in the world but when your software is lacking...dunno, the XSX is the only console i've ever sold, after 2.5 years, i just couldn't anymore with the nth metroidvania/indie game, i just had my fill...
Halo Infinite was...what it was, personally, i found it forgettable, finished it once on Heroic, played about 20 hours of MP and that was it.Flight sim i played for about 8-10 hours until i got bored, it's just a niche title catered towards a very specific demographic.Don't play Forza games (racing games in general).
The Medium and Scorn i enjoyed but they're not exactly games that you buy a console for.
Fun fact : the games i enjoyed more were from the "shitty" XONE era (Quantum break/Ryse son of Rome/Gears 4 + 5/Sunset overdrive/halo 5)
...personal opinion and all that obviously,
Cheerio
Then when we add in the forced advertising of the home ui and more recent fullscreen obnoxious ads. And poor ui redesign of the XSX, whilst I get zero advertising on the PS5 (UK based). And I just find myself spending far more time with my PlayStation.
Theres also Brad's anti UK rhetoric and various MS behind the scenes black marks during the ABK saga, which haven't endeared me.
However, I do still love my older games on my XSX and recently just invested another couple of hundred spondolics in an XSX controller. But my excitement is with revisiting older favourites, not for anything current or new. I hope this improves and I get excited for Xbox again, like I was with the X1X. But once the PS5 Pro releases, if Xbox dont respond, I dont see why I would spend anymore time with the XSX than I currently do.
But I'm still staying the course with Xbox for now. Despite having debated multiple times selling it. I just hope it once again becomes more than a back compat and GP demo machine. A good Gears 6 single player campaign would help!
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Bojji
Member
My point was that all those systems had high quality Nintendo exclusives and that didn't help to sell millions of consoles. Exclusives are important but there are many factors to console success.
Switch don't really have "full" third party support, there are no ports of current gen behemoth franchises mostly thanks to weak hardware (same happened with Wii). But Switch have massive mainstream appeal, that's what is driving sales mostly, Nintendo console is almost as "cool" to have as some Apple product.
Humdinger
Member
You're not grasping the distinction between objective and subjective. Objective refers to stuff like numbers of games, metacritic averages, sales numbers, and awards. Subjective refers to personal opinion, personal preference and taste.
You are trying to tell me that my personal preference/opinion/taste is wrong, based on objective criteria. It doesn't work that way.
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I was able to play Gears 5 on my 2019 laptop at 1080P 60FPS no problem. That was a major push for Series X back in 2020.
NeverYouMind
Member
Bungie
Member
At the end of the day I prefer multiplayer experiences & most of Xboxs exclusives provide that for my friends and I. Personally rather have endless memories with friends on a game like Sea of Thieves than a Spider-Man game I can 100% in like 24 hrs of gameplay & never touch it again.
Moriarty1889
Member
More studios now than actual games.
Pelta88
Member
I have no interest in directing your subjective opinion. If it came across that way, that's my bad. My point is that we have metrics that define success and at every turn, both publicly to regulators and judicially, Microsoft have detailed how much of a catastrophe their gaming division is. I'm not sure how, given all we know about the true state of their business, anyone can claim they're on the same level of their competition.
Humdinger
Member
I gotcha, but that's not what I was saying. I think you misinterpreted me. I wasn't saying that my personal opinion/preference/taste was an objective judgment on the state of their business. I was saying that, strictly from a subjective point of view (taste, preference), I put MS and Sony on about the same level -- neither of them have exclusives that really appeal much to me. Sony used to, but they've botched them all up (imo), and they show no sign of reversing course.
I might even say that MS has the advantage at this point (again, subjectively), since a number of their exclusives are unknown quantities (e.g., Avowed, Fable), whereas Sony's future layout seems rather predictable. I admit the advantage is hypothetical, since the games aren't out yet, and MS's track record isn't exactly encouraging, lol. But you never know. All those studio acquisitions have to amount to something ... some day ...
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