Support NeoGAF

[GigaBowser]

Don't get me wrong. Renting games on the cheap is great (even considering picking up a Series X), even though I prefer a Steam like service, but I keep hearing all this buzz about Gamepass like MS sets the trends even though they sell the least consoles and have since 2017 since Gamepass started.

I hear buzz about revenue, but what about profits?

Why is Nintendo selling the most hardware and low budget games for full price making way more profit than anyone if giving your games away and devaluing your IP's is such a great idea?

 

[adamsapple]

What is this fascination bordering on obsession some users have with Microsoft and game pass's profit margins on this forum ?

I'm a subscriber to the service and wondering how they're sustaining the service is the last thing on my mind as a gamer ..

 

[ChiefDada]

I mean, I'm on record for being very skeptical about it's cohesiveness with AAA gaming as we know it today, but I will say that it is too early to talk about current profits with these type of subscription models. I come here to discuss/inquire what a feasible roadmap towards profitability looks like for pure subscription service such as GP based on the trends we are seeing with games such as Halo Infinite and recent acquisitions. I just haven't seen anyone bring up compelling evidence in support of the model yet.

 

[KingGhidorah]

Leave Nintendo out of this train wreck please

I'm so thankful Nintendo is thriving in their own bubble

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

Well I guess it's like Netflix. You win or you die. Be the biggest and starve out the competition until you're the last man standing, than you charge what you need for profit once your competitors are dead.

 

[GigaBowser]

What is this fascination bordering on obsession some users have with Microsoft and game pass's profit margins on this forum ?

I'm a subscriber to the service and wondering how they're sustaining the service is the last thing on my mind as a gamer ..

Because a lot of gamers don't like subscriptions, GaaS and microtransactions and would prefer if the industry stayed more traditional. I would vastly prefer is Sony remained traditional and I don't think they need to give away their incredible, high budget first party single player IP in some cheap garage sale just because other companies are. Why are people playing follow the leader with the console that has worst hardware and first party software sales. Mind boggling.

 

[tommib]

Because a lot of gamers don't like subscriptions, GaaS and microtransactions and would prefer if the industry stayed more traditional. I would vastly prefer is Sony remained traditional and I don't think they need to give away their incredible, high budget first party single player IP in some cheap garage sale just because other companies are. Why are people playing follow the leader with the console that has worst hardware and first party software sales. Mind boggling.

 

[Doom85]

I can’t help but be skeptical.

Like how many of these same people who insist Gamepass and the like “are the definite future” spoke with just as much confidence regarding MoviePass? And we all know how that story ended…

Could services like these be the future? Sure, there’s a decent chance. But it’s not going to be this perfect paradise as some people are deluding themselves. Hell, I knew back in the day that there was no way Netflix was going to be the only major streaming service on the block yet some people deluded themselves thinking they would have access to most movies and shows on one single streaming service and they would save a ton of money. Then reality came knocking as Hulu, Amazon, Disney, HBO Max, etc. entered the ring.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

"I heard the buzz, but what about profits?"

Why don't you become a shareholder and find out?

Because a lot of gamers don't like subscriptions, GaaS and microtransactions and would prefer if the industry stayed more traditional.

Judging by what games generate the lions share of player bases, revenue, and profit, seems the majority would disagree with you.

I would vastly prefer is Sony remained traditional and I don't think they need to give away their incredible, high budget first party single player IP in some cheap garage sale just because other companies are. Why are people playing follow the leader with the console that has worst hardware and first party software sales. Mind boggling.

Yes, because Microsoft started game subscriptions and streaming (PS Now preceded it), GaaS (PLENTY of MMORPGs like WoW back in the day, and even earlier, arguably started this), MTX (games going back to the early '90s started this) etc.?

You're just mad and looking to blame Microsoft for everything you don't like, it's irrational thinking. Your thinking of various market elements is antiquated.

 

[CGiRanger]

I just have a simple question.

How do the developers make money off of their games being played on a service like this, than on unit sales?

 

[GigaBowser]

I just have a simple question.

How do the developers make money off of their games being played on a service like this, than on unit sales?

Micro transactions and other sleazy predatory shit.

For some reason console gamer's have become excited about this trash that we previously ridiculed now that their favourite gaming company is implementing it as their go to strategy.

 

[odhiex]

Nintendo is also dipping their toes into the subscriptions trend, with the Nintendo Online. Not the same caliber as Gamepass, but still...money to be made

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Netflix and Spotify have done alright.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Micro transactions and other predatory shit.

They're only as predatory as the publisher who implements them. Kind of like price hikes on MSRP for retail copies and fees to upgrade for better performance: only as predatory as the publisher who implements them.

Nintendo is also dipping their toes into the subscriptions trend, with the Nintendo Online. Not the same caliber as Gamepass, but still...money to be made

Apparently Nintendo are "open" to exploring NFTs; if gamers want to be genuine about a point of concern, maybe focus on that.

 

[elliot5]

because practically every:

1. Software business
2. Entertainment business

are subscription based now. Games are at the intersection of that. Of course the future will include a game subscription service.

 

[adamsapple]

Because a lot of gamers don't like subscriptions, GaaS and microtransactions and would prefer if the industry stayed more traditional. I would vastly prefer is Sony remained traditional and I don't think they need to give away their incredible, high budget first party single player IP in some cheap garage sale just because other companies are. Why are people playing follow the leader with the console that has worst hardware and first party software sales. Mind boggling.

Ask yourself, why is everyone clamoring for Sony to launch a game pass competitor and why are Spartacus rumors so rampant. The fan-demand for it won't be there if it wasn't a success. You may very well be a minority outlier, I reckon most PS5 owners would welcome a similar service especially if it promises day 1 releases.

Nintendo are Nintendo and will always be Nintendo, they do their own thing which may or may not be to one's taste.

 

[GigaBowser]

Ask yourself, why is everyone clamoring for Sony to launch a game pass competitor and why are Spartacus rumors so rampant. The fan-demand for it won't be there if it wasn't a success. You may very well be a minority outlier, I reckon most PS5 owners would welcome a similar service especially if it promises day 1 releases.

Nintendo are Nintendo and will always be Nintendo, they do their own thing which may or may not be to one's taste.

Day 1 releases? Sony's first party games are high budget single player games and don't lend themselves to predatory GaaS oriented type micro transaction type subscription services and I'd like it to stay that way.

 

[tommib]

Fuck subscriptions. I can barely handle the massive backlog that I have. Until games that I want are part of some subscription gatekeeping, I will continue buying my games as I always did.

 

[Elder Legend]

Because a lot of gamers don't like subscriptions, GaaS and microtransactions and would prefer if the industry stayed more traditional. I would vastly prefer is Sony remained traditional and I don't think they need to give away their incredible, high budget first party single player IP in some cheap garage sale just because other companies are. Why are people playing follow the leader with the console that has worst hardware and first party software sales. Mind boggling.

A lot of people don't like GaaS or subscriptions? Shit no wonder the mobile market that is filled with F2P, MTX and also Spotify is barely making any money, everyone hates it. How delusional are you? NeoGaf is not majority of the people goofball.

It's called competition. And majority of people prefer saving a ton of money. Why would you want to pay $70 to play God of War Ragnarok day 1 as opposed to paying $15 a month and also be able to play 3rd party and 1st party exclusive at a much cheaper cost? Don't give me the bullshit of "but mah license whaaaaa!!! " you'll be dead in 60 or 70 years anyway and your license to a fucking video game is not going to the grave with you. So sick of this "I want traditional console" bullshit narrative. Times and industry, moved on and either accept or get the fuck off the hobby and let others enjoy what they always loved, amazing games.

Also, subscription services generate more money through MTX and other ways. Gaming dev budgets are extremely high right now and won't be getting lower, if anything always higher.

It's hilarious to me how people here think they know everything and then voice their so called armchair opinion without knowing jack shit. If you are so knowledgble go get a job at Sony or Microsoft and tell their financial and marketing psychologists that they suck ass and that you are better than everyone else.

Sony is moving this way too and they WILL have MTX whether you like it or not. Good luck. But guess what, I'll still be playing their games as long as they are good and I will buy the MTX if I am enjoying my time and want to support the devs and publishers.

 

[GigaBowser]

It's called competition. And majority of people prefer saving a ton of money. Why would you want to pay $70 to play God of War Ragnarok day 1 as opposed to paying $15 a month and also be able to play 3rd party and 1st party exclusive at a much cheaper cost? Don't give me the bullshit of "but mah license whaaaaa!!! " you'll be dead in 60 or 70 years anyway and your license to a fucking video game is not going to the grave with you. So sick of this "I want traditional console" bullshit narrative. Times and industry, move on and either accept or get the fuck off the hobby and let others enjoy what they always loved, amazing games.

Also, subscription services generate more money through MTX and other ways. Gaming dev budgets are extremely high right now and won't be getting lower, if anything always higher.

It's hilarious to me how people here think they know everything and then voice their so called armchair opinion without knowing jack shit. If you are so knowledgble go get a job at Sony or Microsoft and tell their financial and marketing psychologists suck ass and that you are better than everyone else.

Sony is moving this way too and they WILL have MTX whether you like it or not. Good luck.

MS is currently the only one doing this in console gaming and have been since 2017 and they aren't exactly setting the world on fire.

 

[adamsapple]

Day 1 releases? Sony's first party games are high budget single player games and don't lend themselves to predatory GaaS oriented type micro transaction type subscription services and I'd like it to stay that way.

That's a bit unfair, for every other indie game, you also get day 1 releases like Infinite, Forza Horizon, Outer Worlds and a lot more like Starfield, Redfall, STALKER 2 etc in the coming days.

They are all fairly big budget games.

Besides, Sony don't need a subscription service to get into GaaS, they have at least 10 in development right now by their own word:

Sony has 10 live service games in development | VGC

Sony has revealed during its earnings call that it plans to ship 10 live service games by 2026.

www.videogameschronicle.com

You've got more things to worry about than subscription services if you think they're the main cause of GaaS games.

 

[odhiex]

Day 1 releases? Sony's first party games are high budget single player games and don't lend themselves to predatory GaaS oriented type micro transaction type subscription services and I'd like it to stay that way.

The Day 1 AAA releases is the way of Microsoft to shows their aggressiveness and commitment towards Gamepass.

If they only focussed on old catalogs, they probably won't gain much attention among gamers. Just like PS Now.

I mean, you will not gain advantage over your competitors if you just do the same way as theirs.

 

[CamHostage]

Like how many of these same people who insist Gamepass and the like “are the definite future” spoke with just as much confidence regarding MoviePass? And we all know how that story ended…

It ended badly for MoviePass, but every major theater chain has since implemented a subscription pass system for films.

(Games and movies are different in a few ways though. Theatrical movies are a "dying" medium, according to some stats, plus the type of audience who didn't go for the subscription model are the older folks, including parents of kids who buy large portions of tickets, whereas gaming is generally a younger customer base. So it's not a complete 1:1 if you were to use either the failed MoviePass or the deathstar Netflix business analogy.)

 

[adamsapple]

I just have a simple question.

How do the developers make money off of their games being played on a service like this, than on unit sales?

This is from 2020, practices may have changed by now but it seems like most developers just sign a contract and get a lump sum upfront, or get money for development of the game:

"[In] certain cases, we’ll pay for the full production cost of the game. Then they get all the retail opportunity on top of Game Pass. They can go sell it on PlayStation, on Steam, and on Xbox, and on Switch. [...] Sometimes the developer’s more done with the game and it’s more just a transaction of, 'Hey, we’ll put it in Game Pass if you’ll pay us this amount of money.'"

"Others want [agreements] more based on usage and monetization in whether it’s a store monetization that gets created through transactions, or usage. We’re open [to] experimenting with many different partners, because we don’t think we have it figured out. When we started, we had a model that was all based on usage. Most of the partners said, 'Yeah, yeah, we understand that, but we don’t believe it, so just give us the money upfront.'"

Xbox chief reveals more about how developers earn money through Game Pass

Phil Spencer says Microsoft's deals with developers are 'all over the place.'

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Elder Legend]

MS is currently the only one doing this in console gaming and have been since 2017 and they aren't exactly setting the world on fire.

You sure about that? I'd like too see you sing your other tune once Sony releases a competitor to Game Pass which has been confirmed by Jim Ryan multiple times now.

Let's wait till Spartacus then come and talk.

 

[lastmessiah]

Don't get me wrong. Renting games on the cheap is great, even though I prefer a Steam like service, but I keep hearing all this buzz about Gamepass like MS sets the trends even though they sell the least consoles and have since 2017 since Gamepass started.

I hear buzz about revenue, but what about profits?

Why is Nintendo selling the most hardware and low budget games for full price making way more profit than anyone if giving your games away and devaluing your IP's is such a great idea?

Love when you nutcases try to equivocate Sony with Nintendo. Sony's 'incredible' exclusives (please ) are nowhere near what Nintendo has. No one is itching to buy a Playstation console so they can buy Horizon Forbidden West. Sony doesn't have a Mario, a Zelda, a Pokémon. Shit, Sony doesn't even have a Splatoon. The only people who really care about Sony games are gaming 'journalists' and forum console warriors.

 

[GigaBowser]

Love when you nutcases try to equivocate Sony with Nintendo. Sony's 'incredible' exclusives (please ) are nowhere near what Nintendo has. No one is itching to buy a Playstation console so they can buy Horizon Forbidden West. Sony doesn't have a Mario, a Zelda, a Pokémon. Shit, Sony doesn't even have a Splatoon. The only people who really care about Sony games are gaming 'journalists' and forum console warriors.

Riiiiiiight. Doesn't sound like you're up to date with you knowledge.

Sony now has several 10 and 20 million selling franchises and had none in the PS3 generation and some of the most critically acclaimed games in the industry.

 

[lastmessiah]

Riiiiiiight. Doesn't sound like you're up to date with you knowledge.

Sony now has several 10 and 20 million selling franchises and had none in the PS3 generation and some of the most critically acclaimed games in the industry.

So, what are you complaining about then, go shift through the bargain bin and pick up some critically acclaimed Sony games and play them to your heart's content.

 

[Elder Legend]

So, what are you complaining about then, go shift through the bargain bin and pick up some critically acclaimed Sony games and play them to your heart's content.

His too worried that Sony will go the MS route and that TLOU factions will be filled with MTX (which it will) and there is nothing wrong with that If the game is good and fun to play which I believe it will be.

 

[Aguero9320]

CDs will always be way.
So will DVDs.

No one will ever want to subscribe to all you can eat movie and music services. And I'd prefer my Windows operating systems to come on floppy disk, if given the choice.

 

[lastmessiah]

His too worried that Sony will go the MS route and that TLOU factions will be filled with MTX (which it will) and there is nothing wrong with that If the game is good and fun to play which I believe it will be.

But Sony is the market leader and dominates the console market, at least that's what I keep hearing. Certainly it had nothing to do with CoD, it was all those incredible Sony exclusives! So why do they need to follow Microsoft's lead? Really makes you think...

 

[GigaBowser]

You sure about that? I'd like too see you sing your other tune once Sony releases a competitor to Game Pass which has been confirmed by Jim Ryan multiple times now.

Let's wait till Spartacus then come and talk.

Keep cheerleading this all you want. It's going to take away the quality of the industry.

These subscripted fees are

1 going to become more expensive

2 game quality is going to drop even further

3 GaaS and micro transactions will become even more of a thing.

Let's see which one of us is right when the dust settles.

 

[Greggy]

Micorsoft can count. And everything you find on GP is also on sale.
Finally they don't force subscribe people or entice anyone to emulate the model so OP, get a life.

 

[GigaBowser]

Micorsoft can count. And everything you find on GP is also on sale.
Finally they don't force subscribe people or entice anyone to emulate the model so OP, get a life.

Lol you're the one defending corporate bloodsucking and predatory cellphone model gaming, take your own advise.

 

[Elder Legend]

But Sony is the market leader and dominates the console market, at least that's what I keep hearing. Certainly it had nothing to do with CoD, it was all those incredible Sony exclusives! So why do they need to follow Microsoft's lead? Really makes you think...

I don't really care personally who follows what lead but the proof is in the pudding that people like subscription services if done right. I'd love for Sony to do same, I am not really in the mood to pay $70 for Horizon Forbidden West or God of War Ragnarok, but sadly I'll have too because the games see great. But it doesn't mean they can get away with it forever. Most people will want to save money and will go to a platform that gives you the most bang for your buck at some point in time.

Issue is that Sony is starting to repeat same mistakes they did in 2006. Getting super cocky and arragont almost led them to their death if that generation didn't last that long.

Then the oppositie happened with Xbox, Don Mattrick essentially sank the entire Xbox brand in 2013 with horrific PR and reveal of the console. The 2013 gen was absolutely horrible for Xbox. I hated the Xbox at the time because they ruined the brand and everything I loved about them.

This time around thankfully both consoles are great and have their negatives and positives. Sony has great games and Micros9ft has great services, quality of life changes, game pass and an insane arsenal of crazy new and old IPs coming out.

Super excited this gen on both ends. But then you get idiots like these who are so "concerned" about how a trillion dollar company us managing to survive on such a insane good service. Motherfucker, MS just bought Activision Blizzard for 68 bil and your gonna come in and ask how Game Pass is making them money? KEKW.

 

[Swift_Star]

What is this fascination bordering on obsession some users have with Microsoft and game pass's profit margins on this forum ?

I'm a subscriber to the service and wondering how they're sustaining the service is the last thing on my mind as a gamer ..

It’s a forum, those exist for discussion. Gamepass is a hot topic and some people act like it’s the second coming. It’s only fair that people will scrutinize the service since we can’t hear the end of it.

 

[GigaBowser]

I don't really care personally who follows what lead but the proof is in the pudding that people like subscription services if done right. I'd love for Sony to do same, I am not really in the mood to pay $70 for Horizon Forbidden West or God of War Ragnarok, but sadly I'll have too because the games see great. But it doesn't mean they can get away with it forever. Most people will want to save money and will go to a platform that gives you the most bang for your buck at some point in time.

Issue is that Sony is starting to repeat same mistakes they did in 2006. Getting super cocky and arragont almost led them to their death if that generation didn't last that long.

Then the oppositie happened with Xbox, Don Mattrixk essentially sank the entire Xbox brand in 2013 with horrific PR and reveal of the console. The 2013 gen was absolutely horrible for Xbox. I hated the Xbox at the time because they ruined the brand and everything I loved about them.

This time around thankfully both consoles are great and have their negatives and positives. Sony has great games and Micros9ft has great services, quality of life changes, game pass and an insane arsenal of crazy new and old IPs coming out. Super excited this gen on both ends. But then you get idiots like these who are so "concerned" about how a trillion dollR company us managing to survive on such a insane good service. Motherfucker, MS just bought Activision Blizzard for.68 bil and your gonna come in and ask how Game Pass is making them money? KEKW.

MS did what they needed to do to try and stay relevant because they couldn't keep up so they went another path like Nintendo did with the Wii. I'm not hating on them and am even considering picking up a Series X, I just don't think it should become industry standard.

 

[Elder Legend]

Keep cheerleading this all you want. It's going to take away the quality of the industry.

These subscripted fees are

1 going to become more expensive

2 game quality is going to drop even further

3 GaaS and micro transactions will become even more of a thing.

Let's see which one of us is right when the dust settles.

1 - maybe, they should $15 is too cheap anyways for what they offer.

2 - Doubt it.

3 - GaaS and MTX have been worse in the past not currently. I've sank close to 1000 hours on Sea of Thieves and that game gets more insane every 3 months in a good way. I also happily bought every tavern pass for last 3 seasons and some cosmetics off the shops. Have 0 regrets because I am having an amazing time and want to support the devs.

I don't care who's right or not. I work in the industry for the last 9 years and coming on to 10. I've lived the dream, met devs, publishers and run my own show. I don't need to prove anything to anybody. I just think it's hilarious how some people are with their concerns.

Dude just enjoy the games and let it go. No one is gonna miss you either if you go. It's not a big deal lol.

 

[SLB1904]

No one is itching to buy a Playstation console so they can buy Horizon Forbidden West.

i can go on. you sound so angry for some reason

 

[Doom85]

i can go on. you sound so angry for some reason

 

[Elder Legend]

i can go on. you sound so angry for some reason

Do these guys not have a PS4? I don't think Twitter counts for majority of the people.

If those people cared so much about buying a PS5 to play Horizon Forbidden West they should of camped online store like I did on day 1 of pre orders. Got 2 PS5s on pre order. One for myself and another for a friend.

 

[Swift_Star]

Love when you nutcases try to equivocate Sony with Nintendo. Sony's 'incredible' exclusives (please ) are nowhere near what Nintendo has. No one is itching to buy a Playstation console so they can buy Horizon Forbidden West. Sony doesn't have a Mario, a Zelda, a Pokémon. Shit, Sony doesn't even have a Splatoon. The only people who really care about Sony games are gaming 'journalists' and forum console warriors.

Source?

 

[SLB1904]

Source?

his feelings

 

[Swift_Star]

Do these guys not have a PS4? I don't think Twitter counts for majority of the people.

If those people cared so much about buying a PS5 to play Horizon Forbidden West they should of camped online store like I did on day 1 of pre orders. Got 2 PS5s on pre order. One for myself and another for a friend.

So people are not buying xss/xsx to play FH5 or infinite? Of course they are and crossgen games historically sell more on the newer platforms. Stop fanboying.

 

[Beechos]

Don't get me wrong. Renting games on the cheap is great, even though I prefer a Steam like service, but I keep hearing all this buzz about Gamepass like MS sets the trends even though they sell the least consoles and have since 2017 since Gamepass started.

I hear buzz about revenue, but what about profits?

Why is Nintendo selling the most hardware and low budget games for full price making way more profit than anyone if giving your games away and devaluing your IP's is such a great idea?

Umm take a look at music and movies/tv shows... all the streaming music and video services. i really dont know a single person who buys music/videos anymore.

 

[GigaBowser]

Umm take a look at music and movies/tv shows... all the streaming music and video services for i really dont know a single person who buys music/videos anymore.

Games are not music and tv shows and should not be treated as such.

 

[Aguero9320]

I am not really in the mood to pay $70 for Horizon Forbidden West or God of War Ragnarok, but sadly I'll have too because the games see great.

I'm the opposite. If Horizon or GTA were reasonably priced I would buy them for sure, but I am confirmed 'wait for sale' on both. Ragnarok will be the same. I'm not paying $70, I'm just not. And I can afford it, I just won't do it. I would however subscribe to Sony's GamePass if it had them day one.

 

[Elder Legend]

So people are not buying xss/xsx to play FH5 or infinite? Of course they are and crossgen games historically sell more on the newer platforms. Stop fanboying.

PC is superior than a PS5 or XSX and let's drop the fanboying bullshit. Yeah sure crossgen games sell more on newer toys but if they really wanna play it then get it on an inferior system if you MUST play it and stop qquing about it on twitter. I was simply stating a fact, stop getting butthurt.

You can't call someone a fanboy when they own all the systems and play them daily. You are a dingus dude.

 

[Elder Legend]

Umm take a look at music and movies/tv shows... all the streaming music and video services. i really dont know a single person who buys music/videos anymore.

Just report him dude. It's another typical concern trolls thread.

 

[Aguero9320]

Games are not music and tv shows and should not be treated as such.

Why?

If you go to the right forum (perhaps a few years ago) you would find people saying 'movies are not music and should not be treated as such'. They are all consumable entertainment. You don't, and have never 'owned' any of it.