Support NeoGAF

[Anton Sugar]

So..bassicaly what you want is for white people to try keeping their culture pure, without any black influences? They should't be racist against black people, but should be effectively racist against their culture?

Bro, you're going down a weird path here and making some strange extrapolations.

The issue isn't innocuous cultural "assimilation" or "appreciation" or anything like that.

In this specific case, it doesn't fit the typical vein of cultural appropriation, in which one culture (in America's case, usually white people) take something from another culture and it suddenly becomes cool/beautiful/bold/daring/etc. This happens a lot. It happened numerous times last year, and the year before that, and the year before that, etc. Hip-hop/rap is rife with it.

I think that what Cream and Rembrandt are both saying is that, this girl is fairly innocent via her ignorance (although that's not always a good excuse), but there absolutely IS a precedent for the "outrage" displayed here, and it's not rooted in insecurity or some kind of "reverse racism". It's rooted in reality.

Musicians have borrowed, begged and stolen from every culture on the planet and no one thinks they are culturally appropriated stuff. It's called evolution.

Actually, they DO get called out for appropriation, it's just that no one notices. Even Eminem called out Elvis (and himself) for their appropriation and getting rich off black music/style.

 

[nel e nel]

I thought as much.

As someone who has never experienced racism, surely your own culture is harmed when you set definitions as to who can be 'part' of that culture.

Well, it's kind of an issue when for generations, many parts of the population have been implicitly told that they are not 'part' of the mainstream culture, yet their styles of music, dress, art, etc are constantly adopted, packaged and sold to the mainstream.

 

[kodecraft]

Honestly I see more black women wearing wigs these days than those with their regular hair. Do they not realize how terrible it looks?

Along with Brazillian weaves too, that ain't their culture too.

 

[The Faceless Master]

If you are SHITTING on a person on twitter cause she white and she got braids you are insecure as fuck. If you are NOT one of the people shitting on a person on twitter cause she white and got braids then my statement does not apply to you. Find something else to get offended about, please.

Of course braids can be considered a part of Black culture but you cant be fucking shocked when living in a diverse society that someone from another ethnicity rocks a hairstyle from another ethnicity. If a person is THAT sensitive about it and feels THAT much of a NEED to go in on someone like that then in my opinion they're insecure and they shouldn't be. Braids on Black people will survive a few White people rocking the same hairstyle. Give me a fucking break, lmao.

You say you aint defending their attack but at same time claim they NOT insecure? Ok.

You expect me to be tactful to people attacking a person because of their hair? Sorry if that offended you but tough shit. They're insecure if they need to go in on a person because of their hair.

gonna guess they are insecure as fuck, probably because of their negative experiences from white people when rocking the same hairstyles. then they see that and are scratching their heads going "the fuck?" and wondering why the world is like that.

 

[Rembrandt]

If you are SHITTING on a person on twitter cause she white and she got braids you are insecure as fuck. If you are NOT one of the people shitting on a person on twitter cause she white and got braids then my statement does not apply to you. Find something else to get offended about, please.

Of course braids can be considered a part of Black culture but you cant be fucking shocked when living in a diverse society that someone from another ethnicity rocks a hairstyle from another ethnicity.

You say you aint defending their attack but at same time claim they NOT insecure? Ok.

You expect me to be tactful to people attacking a person because of their hair? Sorry if that offended you but tough shit. They're insecure if they need to go in on a person because of their hair.

You know what, maybe they are insecure because they're treated like shit continously. Maybe they're insecure because they received criticism and dirty looks for the hair style this white girl was getting praise for. Maybe they seen what happened with twerking and how it went from being seen as incredibly ghetto to incredibly mainstream. So I take back my comments about them being insecure, but if they are, they have a good right to be. Maybe they went across this the wrong way but I would really be lying if I said I don't get the overall sentiment of what they're saying.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Thus is like every Spanish girl that visits the canary islands.

Them braids look good.

 

[FDC1]

Braids were already used in ancient Egypt if not before. Pretty sure you'll find traces of them everywhere in the world throughout history.

 

[Izuna]

It's annoying because she is basically told about racism for no reason. She got her hair done a certain way that liked, that's about all she probably thought.

I know it's a complex issue but that new young girl is brought into the world being told she can't even have her hair the way she wants is racism towards her.

I really hope that one day people won't keep on bringing up the history and allow the kids to grow up thinking that racism isn't really a thing anymore and there is no hate.

Like a white baby is born and conservative parents go "hey, since you're white, you have to be extra nice to those people. If they say things to you it's okay because your ancestors owe them."

One day people won't give a shit and that is when racism will disappear.

At least growing up in London there was never this segregation or so much being taught about racism. I know slavery was a big part of US history but it seems that people are less racist here because we are not told we are different in schools or whatever. I remember black history month rolling around and my group of friends, including myself, were like "huh?"

We didn't need to see historical examples of great black people to prove that could be because our class room us kids judged each other by their actual grades and all assumed it was a random chance for all of us.

Only when I went to Manchester people thought I could rap because I am light-skinned... Not sure if it is still like that up north.

 

[Cipherr]

I feel like this " this is ours" culture for all races is really just another form of self imposed segregation. People that claim you cannot do something becuase you are not the correct race isn't helping races unite with each other, the only thing it does is help the perpetuation of separation between the races.

This.

Fuck all that noise. They are racist jerks, no excuses for them.

 

[Horseticuffs]

It would be like this:

You are a super cool guy. You do a lot of super cool things, and invent new cool things without even thinking about it. You are proud of the cool things you come up with. They define who you are.

But a lot of people you know take those cool things you do, and they get recognized for it, over and over again. Those cool things become super popular. But not you.

Meanwhile, all the people that like that cool thing don't like you.

Thanks for the replies, gaf! I feel like I'm getting a better understanding.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Along with Brazillian weaves too, that ain't their culture too.

the pressure to conform is that strong.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

It would be like this:

You are a super cool guy. You do a lot of super cool things, and invent new cool things without even thinking about it. You are proud of the cool things you come up with. They define who you are.

But a lot of people you know take those cool things you do, and they get recognized for it, over and over again. Those cool things become super popular. But not you.

Meanwhile, all the people that like that cool thing don't like you.

What if I liked you, and I liked that cool thing you‘re doing, so I decided to do it myself. I have no control over what happens after that.

 

[Ikael]

It is only logical. I mean, Twitter always airs the most imbecile opinions in the open, so of course, "cultural apropiation" accusations would chime in the twitterverse sooner or later.

 

[soundahfekz]

Waiting for Azealia Banks's opinion before I comment.


Girl didn't do anything wrong. People need to learn how to discuss culture appropriation correctly.

Indeed. Twitter is a cesspool for dumb shit too.

Sidenote though its amazing all the screen names that popped in to condemn racism when it was applied to a young white girl. You don't see them in all the other racism threads.

it's like "ah ha!, finally I can unleash all this veiled racial tension now that the shoe for once is on the other foot!"

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I guess I am trying to understand the feelings of the people on Twitter who feel provoked by it. I like the girls dreads. I think she is one of the few white persons who can pull it off.

The thing with white people stealing black peoples culture and pretending they created it, is that something that predates, even Elvis in the 50s? That seems to be the earliest, where I've heard the idea.
A month ago, or so, we had that article about "bae" and the word being killed by white people. And a few months before that, we had that article about gay men who take the "strong black independent woman" stereotype and acting like that (the accent, talk, and slang).
I wonder if this is more like a need. We're not doing to good here, a lot of our problems and circumstances that we have not collectively (as in -all of us) been able to get out off, seems to define us in news and media, and now we feel sorta pissed when we see the things we do that we can proud off, getting *taken* away from us, by pretty girls on instagram who seems to do better in the job market, get more attention on dating sites, doesn't have all sorts of negative connotations associated with their being.
Basically, this idea - that life is hard, we complain because we need to be heard?
I know it's not a new idea.
In Europe, this is what many of our international correspondents are telling us about many of the middle eastern immigrants who are angry. I saw a guy with a science sociology background, who said, on TV, that - marginalized groups have a need to speak up and vent. There is no immediate solution, and when they can be heard and lash out, they will. He was pointing at the importance for a people to feel reimbursed properly (he mentioned the tribunes in South Africa n the 90s) as means to move on and not be stuck in the past, because the past is still keeping them in the dirt.
It's hard to emphatically understand. It's really difficult to imagine what it must be like. But I wouldn't know.. this is all so confusing to me!

 

[Anton Sugar]

I wonder how many of those twitter hecklers had their lace fronts and "hurr" did in white fashion.

Not even sure how to respond to this.

It's annoying because she is basically told about racism for no reason. She got her hair done a certain way that liked, that's about all she probably thought.

I know it's a complex issue but that new young girl is brought into the world being told she can't even have her hair the way she wants is racism towards her.

I really hope that one day people won't keep on bringing up the history and allow the kids to grow up thinking that racism isn't really a thing anymore and there is no hate.

Like a white baby is born and conservative parents go "hey, since you're white, you have to be extra nice to those people. If they say things to you it's okay because your ancestors owe them."

One day people won't give a shit and that is when racism will disappear.

At least growing up in London there was never this segregation or so much being taught about racism. I know slavery was a big part of US history but it seems that people are less racist here because we are not told we are different in schools or whatever. I remember black history month rolling around and my group of friends, including myself, were like "huh?"

That's not really how it works. Racism is institutional at this point and has been for some time--"ignoring" it isn't going to solve anything.

 

[NumberTwo]

There is a conversation to be had about cultural appropriation but I don't think there is one to be had here.

She saw a nice hair style and went "I think I want to try that". There was no need do go in on her like that. That wasn't a proportional response.

 

[Black Republican]

i love white girls with braids, fuck the haters

 

[Cream]

What if I liked you, and I liked that cool thing you‘re doing, so I decided to do it myself. I have no control over what happens after that.

Then you would probably be fine, but you should also be sensitive and understand the meaning behind what you're doing, and not be confused if I get mad.

If you truly do like me, you would want to respect me.

 

[Nokagi]

I just hope black people don't steal the mullet.

 

[Cagey]

I think that what Cream and Rembrandt are both saying is that, this girl is fairly innocent via her ignorance (although that's not always a good excuse), but there absolutely IS a precedent for the "outrage" displayed here, and it's not rooted in insecurity or some kind of "reverse racism". It's rooted in reality.

You really can't bring yourself to definitively declare this is an incident of stupidity on behalf of the outraged, damn. So many qualifiers. "Fairly" innocent via "her ignorance" and the accompanying "not always a good excuse" parenthetical.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Guys getting perms are clowned to infinity. Where you been?

Yo lol..no shit. I think Sharpton done it so long, no one even bothers with him anymore..

 

[Anton Sugar]

What if I liked you, and I liked that cool thing you‘re doing, so I decided to do it myself. I have no control over what happens after that.

That's really your call to make. At the very least, you'd be cramping your friend's style

On a serious note, your scenario is probably similar to what the girl in the OP thought. However, that doesn't mean it's not important to be aware of the context of that choice in modern society.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

I just hope black people don't steal the mullet.

The black mullet is a thing.
Hairstyles aren't exclusive.

 

[Izuna]

That's not really how it works. Racism is institutional at this point and has been for some time--"ignoring" it isn't going to solve anything.

Yes there are issues in the older generation and the systems they built, but I'm talking about the next generation. The children are going to shape this world and unless we think that they will naturally become racist and white people will naturally treat others the way they did in US history, then there is not much need.

They are not genetically predisposed to be racist. And this whole thing with saying she can't braid her hair is pretty saying she is a bad person for not being careful while white.

 

[The Faceless Master]

It's annoying because she is basically told about racism for no reason. She got her hair done a certain way that liked, that's about all she probably thought.

I know it's a complex issue but that new young girl is brought into the world being told she can't even have her hair the way she wants is racism towards her.

I really hope that one day people won't keep on bringing up the history and allow the kids to grow up thinking that racism isn't really a thing anymore and there is no hate.

Like a white baby is born and conservative parents go "hey, since you're white, you have to be extra nice to those people. If they say things to you it's okay because your ancestors owe them."

One day people won't give a shit and that is when racism will disappear.

At least growing up in London there was never this segregation or so much being taught about racism. I know slavery was a big part of US history but it seems that people are less racist here because we are not told we are different in schools or whatever. I remember black history month rolling around and my group of friends, including myself, were like "huh?"

i really hope that when black babies are born their parents won't have to tell them to be extra careful to not look threatening or suspicious or whatever and always explicitly and slowly follow every instruction by anyone that could possibly end their existence, but that would be a silly hope that flies headfirst into the brick wall of reality.

 

[Sheriff_Battlesnake]

To be fair, it's also the millennials that get offended at EVERYTHING. This is in that sphere of lolworthy offended.

... it's hair. Grab some perspective people.

IMO "millenial" ought to mean somebody born between 85 and 2005. Basically, "the young", but not small children.

11 - 35 seems like a wide gap, but I pretty much agree. Seems like people who had computers around them when they were young enough to not really be people yet.

Anyway, stupid reaction.

 

[Cream]

You expect teenage girl to name a inventor of braids under her selfie? Is there even one thats officially recognized?
And do you really think that general population doesn't realize where all those specific hair styles or music genres camed from?

The girl is fine. I'm talking about society as a whole.

And obviously people KNOW, they just don't care.

It's all institutionalized. Things like naming Elvis the King of Rock and Roll, or saying that people like Miley Cyrus and Iggy Azelea brought back a Booty Renaissance.

For that matter, EVERYTHING Iggy Azelea does.

 

[Somnid]

I'm guessing this was the true intent behind the term "social justice warrior" before it became a term of ignorance. This absolutely ignorant behavior that fails to understand and cheapens valid attempts to point out social issues.

 

[Wiktor]

I think that what Cream and Rembrandt are both saying is that, this girl is fairly innocent via her ignorance (although that's not always a good excuse), but there absolutely IS a precedent for the "outrage" displayed here, and it's not rooted in insecurity or some kind of "reverse racism". It's rooted in reality.

But all those people shittin on this girl are doing is sending clear message "white kids...stay the fuck away from anything related to black culture if you don't want to be abused on the net". This isn't propably the goal of most of those people, but the reality is that's how they reaction will be viewed by other kids.

Have you ever seen somebody white listening to rap and then turning it off like he's ashamed the moment anyone black comes near? I've seen it often and it really shouldn't happn

 

[Anton Sugar]

You really can't bring yourself to definitively declare this is an incident of stupidity on behalf of the outraged, damn. So many qualifiers. "Fairly" innocent via "her ignorance" and the accompanying "not always a good excuse" parenthetical.

She's 14 years old--yes, she is ignorant. And no, I don't think that ignorance is always a good or valid excuse for an action.

I already stated I didn't think she deserved the attacks, if you cared to read further up the page. What I was explaining there was that this outrage isn't just spurned by insecurity, internal-segregation, reverse racism, or whatever else has been peddled in this thread. It has real, legitimate roots in the exploitation/appropriation of a culture.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

gonna guess they are insecure as fuck, probably because of their negative experiences from white people when rocking the same hairstyles. then they see that and are scratching their heads going "the fuck?" and wondering why the world is like that.

Ok, so take that out on the individual shitting on them. Don't attack someone you perceive to be part of the same "group" who in reality has nothing to do with it.

Ignorance begets ignorance and all that.

I understand wanting to discuss the issue but going in on a kid like that isn't "defending culture" it's being an asshole.

 

[Izuna]

i really hope that when black babies are born their parents won't have to tell them to be extra careful to not look threatening or suspicious or whatever and always explicitly and slowly follow every instruction by anyone that could possibly end their existence, but that would be a silly hope that flies headfirst into the brick wall of reality.

I guess if those black babies were to be born in the world where the white babies were told to be extra careful because the black babies are angry.

Or do you really think the white babies are born to feel extra threatened?

 

[The Faceless Master]

I guess I am trying to understand the feelings of the people on Twitter who feel provoked by it. I like the girls dreads. I think she is one of the few white persons who can pull it off.

1) they're braids, not dreads.

2) they're actually not very well done. that's a dig at the hairstylist, btw.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

1) they're braids, not dreads.

2) they're actually not very well done. that's a dig at the hairstylist, btw.

I guess it just shows how much (little!) I know about hair:3

 

[Angelus Errare]

So..bassicaly what you want is for white people to try keeping their culture pure, without any black influences? They should't be racist against black people, but should be effectively racist against their culture?

Or a much simpler alternative to your suggestion would be to simply...stop oppressing other groups? I dunno just throwing that crazy idea out there.

Shouldn't that makes us happy though that we now have black culture influencing white one? Should white people really avoid that? How would that make any sense? It would be like cultural racism.

If we lived in a country in which everyone was equal and no one group was oppressed then there wouldn't be nearly as much fuss about cultural appropriation.

If Americans really want blacks to stop complaining about cultural appropriation, all America really has to do is stop treating blacks like second class citizens, segregating them, disenfranchising them, using them as scapegoats.

 

[Cream]

Or alternatively simply stop oppressing other groups? I dunno just throwing that crazy idea out there.



If we lived in a country in which everyone was equal and no one group was oppressed then there wouldn't be nearly as much fuss about cultural appropriation.

If Americans really want blacks to stop complaining about cultural appropriation, all America really has to do is stop treating blacks like second class citizens, segregating them, disenfranchising them, using them as scapegoats.

Exactly.

I don't care if you bite my dance moves. Just don't keep me from getting a good job and education while you do it.

 

[y2dvd]

The braids looks great. She did no wrong and shouldn't have to apologize for anything. Those racist tweets are ugly.

 

[G.ZZZ]

White ppl plz stop taking everyone from the others only because you won at history, it's not right Kappa

 

[Mammoth Jones]

You know what, maybe they are insecure because they're treated like shit continously. Maybe they're insecure because they received criticism and dirty looks for the hair style this white girl was getting praise for. Maybe they seen what happened with twerking and how it went from being seen as incredibly ghetto to incredibly mainstream. So I take back my comments about them being insecure, but if they are, they have a good right to be. Maybe they went across this the wrong way but I would really be lying if I said I don't get the overall sentiment of what they're saying.

How do you know that's exactly what happened? Now you're making excuses in an attempt to justify their bullshit. Listen, there absolutely is a place to discuss perceptions of a culture being appropriated for profit. But going in on a child on twitter ain't the time and place.

All the history of oppression doesn't justify that bullshit. I know how my mother was regarded with her hair in the 60's and 70's and 80's. I know what my sister went through perming her hair until she said "Fuck it" and now rocks braids. But nah, I'm not gonna cosign shitting on a fucking kid cause she got braids.

Your insecurity doesn't give you the right to shit on a kid on twitter. And that was my entire point from the start.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Ok, so take that out on the individual shitting on them. Don't attack someone you perceive to be part of the same "group" who in reality has nothing to do with it.

Ignorance begets ignorance and all that.

I understand wanting to discuss the issue but going in on a kid like that isn't "defending culture" it's being an asshole.

man, i can't believe EA made the RPG a pickup item in Hardline.

 

[Izuna]

If Americans really want blacks to stop complaining about cultural appropriation, all America really has to do is stop treating blacks like second class citizens, segregating them, disenfranchising them, using them as scapegoats.

But THIS girl isn't doing it just because she is white.

 

[Anton Sugar]

But all those people shittin on this girl are doing is sending clear message "white kids...stay the fuck away from anything related to black culture if you don't want to be abused on the net". This isn't propably the goal of most of those people, but the reality is that's how they reaction will be viewed by other kids.

Have you ever seen somebody white listening to rap and then turning it off like he's ashamed the moment anyone black comes near? I've seen it often and it really shouldn't happn

I'll say it again, just so I'm absolutely clear: I do not think she deserved the attacks whatsoever. I'm hopeful that there were some more benign tweets that explained to her WHY some people are upset, rather than just attack her.

And yes, I can see how this experience might turn her and other children off to exploring black culture, styles, etc., but it sounds like she actually learned from this experience. I see what you mean, though.

It's a complex issue that goes beyond insecurity.

 

[Angelus Errare]

But THIS girl isn't doing it just because she is white.

I agree and at no point did I suggest she did do anything nor was I even talking about her. I'm clearly talking about the state of America in general.

 

[Wiktor]

Or alternatively simply stop oppressing other groups? I dunno just throwing that crazy idea out there.
.

You think hairstyle choices can opress anyone?

 

[Cream]

But THIS girl isn't doing it just because she is white.

We aren't really talking about the girl anymore.

You think hairstyle choices can opress anyone?

You're missing the point completely. The hairstyle is not oppressing at all.

 

[tbm24]

Not even sure how to respond to this.



That's not really how it works. Racism is institutional at this point and has been for some time--"ignoring" it isn't going to solve anything.

And using that as a basis to hold a girl accountable for braiding her hair doesn't solve anything either. It makes it worse.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I guess if those black babies were to be born in the world where the white babies were told to be extra careful because the black babies are angry.

Or do you really think the white babies are born to feel extra threatened?

i really think Hardline is gonna flop.

 

[JBourne]

#HoldTheMayo

 

[Cagey]

She's 14 years old--yes, she is ignorant. And no, I don't think that ignorance is always a good or valid excuse for an action.

I already stated I didn't think she deserved the attacks, if you cared to read further up the page. What I was explaining there was that this outrage isn't just spurned by insecurity, internal-segregation, reverse racism, or whatever else has been peddled in this thread. It has real, legitimate roots in the exploitation/appropriation of a culture.

I'll say what I can in a manner that's allowed.

Your reliance on ignorant here is telling. Why does her "ignorance", giving you the assumption that you're using the word in a benign dictionary-definition way, matter? A kid of some age (14ish?) got a new hairdo. From the OP, that's all that took place: got braids, posted pic. Wholly, not fairly, innocent. Why is ignorance about cultural appropriation, exploitation, etc. relevant to her decision? Do you have an expectation she would have made a different decision -- i.e. not getting braids -- if she were "enlightened" on the issue, rather than ignorant?