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[Tg89]

With MS all but being confirmed to be moving to a more third party strategy, how does their legacy stack up against Sega?

Both had lengthy stays in the console market that included some high highs and some rather low lows - ultimately meeting a similar fate.

Sega peaked with the Genesis and brought us things like Sonic, online gaming for consoles, as well as being a big competitor to Nintendo do and pushing them to continuously improve.

Xbox peaked with the 360 and brought us Halo, the blueprint for online gaming as a console service, achievements and served as the main competitor to Sony, pushing them in a similar way that Sega pushed Nintendo.

 

[mansoor1980]

sega​

microsoft were just buying everyone in sight

 

[TGO]

Negative or Positive?
Cuz MS introduced a lot of negative stuff that is now a standard in the industry.
Ya gotta give them credit.

 

[TexMex]

Net neutral. They’ve both had a pretty equal share of success and failure.

 

[nush]

Sega, for recognizing the audience had grown up and not grown out of videogames. Sony only built on that.

 

[Represent.]

Xbox. Halo changed FPS on console. Xbox Live solidified online gaming on console. Ninja Gaiden was the last time Team Ninja made a game with good graphics.

 

[German Hops]

The Saturn mogs any ms console.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Microsoft Xbox Live:

 

[bender]

The hard drive and custom soundtracks were cool on the original Xbox. I kind of hate how they made that feature universal on the 360. PGR2 having a custom radio station of your stored music was wonderful. I don't think they've been very innovative since the OG Xbox and often times took steps backwards afterwards.

 

[Rawbutt Jellybean]

As much as it's fun to laugh at MS, they really set the standard for online play for consoles. It took Sony like 13 years of PSN to figure out how to let people change their names.

Plus XBLA was a huge deal on 360 and possibly the point where indie games started getting mass appeal.

 

[Topher]

Microsoft Xbox Live:

I see your Xbox LIve and raise you...

 

[analog_future]

Microsoft introduced the hard drive and proper online play to the console space. That’s bigger than anything Sega added to the industry.

Microsoft also proved that first person shooters could thrive in the console space and introduced some pretty terrific pro-consumer initiatives like Enhanced BC, Play Anywhere, and Smart Delivery.

I love the Sega of old but Microsoft contributed MUCH more to the industry.

 

[killatopak]

Microsoft introduced the hard drive and proper online play to the console space.

Huh? Sega had earlier online model and even PS2 had a hard drive bay on release.

 

[rodrigolfp]

AMD

 

[Artistic]

Shouldn’t be in question Xbox.

 

[{insert code here}]

Microsoft. XBL changed home consoles forever and one can only wonder had they kept Allard, Bach, and Moore in charge how much bigger of an impact Xbox could've had.

 

[analog_future]

Huh? Sega had earlier online model and even PS2 had a hard drive bay on release.

I mean a universal internal hard drive for the platform that games rely upon. It was a first.

And let’s not pretend Sega’s online model had anywhere near the impact of Xbox Live. Xbox Live changed multiplayer gaming in the console space.

 

[Papa_Wisdom]

Sega, by a mile.

 

[Wooxsvan]

 

[hinch7]

SEGA laid the groundworks for Sony+PS and perhaps bigger repercussions overall. With their expanded audience from teens to young adults. Gaming would be a lot different right now if they didn't contribute towards the gaming industry as they did. Now gaming has no age limit, with the average age for gaming into the 30's.

Going by negs.. Microsoft did a lot of damage and popularised shit like 'horse armor' or DLC's, that evolved into viruses that are MTX's. That again, changed the model for games of today for the worst with 'live' games and lootboxes. And gaming subscription services to top it off. So again would be happy to see them gone. Despite my fond memories of games like Halo and the first two Xbox's.

 

[Beechos]

Microsoft brought us true online, hdd, achievements, controller refinement to almost perfection the xbox 360 controller was prob the most used controller ever.

Um I guess sega introduced us to cdrom and console addons.

 

[Ozzie666]

This is going to entirely depend on your age and what you experienced. But it's also like picking you favourite child or parent.
I would think very few people around here can say they saw Sega at it's best and worst in the actual context of the moment.

 

[Hugare]

Microsoft. XBL changed home consoles forever and one can only wonder had they kept Allard, Bach, and Moore in charge how much bigger of an impact Xbox could've had.

This

XBL changed gaming forever. PS+/Gold/Nintendo Online wouldnt exist, and so wouldnt Ubi+, EA+ and etc.

If that was a good contribution tho? No way in hell. Sony/Nintendo only did the same 'cause they've noticed people were dumb as bricks to pay for online.

Achievements were also a huge contribution. They are everywhere nowadays, even on Steam.

MS also built some big franchises like Gears and Halo that are bigger than any of Sega's

 

[Bonfires Down]

Sega only made a mess, although the Dreamcast was cool at the time. They are much better as a third party publisher.

 

[Wildebeest]

The xbox was more technologically innovative than the NES. Sega made some good hardware, but they were also playing catchup on features most of the time.

 

[cartman414]

Sega only made a mess, although the Dreamcast was cool at the time. They are much better as a third party publisher.

Sega made sturdy hardware. They also had some of the best controllers (Saturn regular; both analog pads featuring Hall effect). MS only iterated on what they did with online.

The xbox was more technologically innovative than the NES. Sega made some good hardware, but they were also playing catchup on features most of the time.

NES/SNES also had online. The tech was just too early to do much.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Sega had actual successful consoles

 

[RickMasters]

As a sega fan I’ll say their biggest lasting contribution was being the first proper net capable console.


But Xbox made a proper service out of online console gaming. They pushed it far more than sega ever did. Then there’s the whole friends list, partying up, to make joining online games with friends easier. Achievements made some one and some games worth playing twice. I don’t think PSN trophies would exist achievements were never a thing.


People might say DLC is a bad thing but PC gamers were buying expansions for their games years before this. MS made it easy for devs to do the same on console. DLCs value depends on what you get for the money. The fact that devs simply take Liberties with it Is not MS fault…. Never underestimate the other man’s greed.

 

[RickMasters]

Sega had actual successful consoles

Saying this as a devout saga fan back in The day. There only success was the mega drive/ genesis and even then only in certain markets. The Snes was outselling it everywhere else. And no sega console ever sold as much as a 360 or even an Xbox one, or even a series S/X.

 

[kazuyamishima]

From Arcade machines to the introduction of online, and even releasing the first hybrid system in the Sega Nomad.

I don't see the introduction of internal HDD as a big thing but it was big the release of a proper Online service with Xbox Live.

 

[RickMasters]

Microsoft. XBL changed home consoles forever and one can only wonder had they kept Allard, Bach, and Moore in charge how much bigger of an impact Xbox could've had.

Those guys are the ones who would have truly steered Xbox right. MS has a bad habit of neglecting their best talents.

 

[RickMasters]

Microsoft brought us true online, hdd, achievements, controller refinement to almost perfection the xbox 360 controller was prob the most used controller ever.

Um I guess sega introduced us to cdrom and console addons.

I’d give more credit to the pC engine for being the first CD console.


I credit sega for pushing the boundaries for 3D graphics with their arcade hardware ( nothing came close to Daytona USA or VF2 in the 90s and generally nothing liked better than sega arcade games in the 90s) but in the home co sole space things was a disaster. They really missed the boat by not putting dedicated 3D processing in the Saturn like Sony did with the PS1. Dream cast had the first modem but segas online service had nothing on even the first iteration of Xbox live.

 

[Sethbacca]

I’m team Sega on this one.

 

[RickMasters]

Huh? Sega had earlier online model and even PS2 had a hard drive bay on release.

A hard drive bay…. Not an actual hard drive in in though….that was not manadatory and no game designer took Advantage of it. I remember playing halo for the first time and just the fact that dead enemies remained in the ground was a big deal when they just faded out games on other platforms. Something PC gamers took for granted for year up u til that point.







I dont recall ever seeing a single PS2 with a HDD actually equipped. It was still memory cards for PS at that point. They didn’t make HDDs a thing until PS3

 

[TheDarkPhantom]

I'm assuming we're talking *positive* impact? In that case SEGA and it isn't even close, there is a reason so many of us have such fond memories of the consoles and their games, if you weren't around you wouldn't know. There were some boneheaded business decisions like SEGA CD (yes I owned one) and 32X (avoided after CD lol) but we got so many classics, Dreamcast was ahead of it's time (midnight launch will forever be one of my most cherished gaming memories) and SEGA were really the first to push weird, quirky, experimental games like Seaman, Ecco the Dolphin, Space Channel 5, Nights, Crazy Taxi etc. Nevermind the arcade scene, good God almighty.

On the flip side, M$ implemented garbage business practices that have since become standard industry wide, tried to effectively kill game sharing, gobbled up companies and produced nothing of worth with their "investment", relied on the same 3 franchises every single gen with very little innovation or new IP. I will absolutely aknowledge HALO's impact (but how the mighty have fallen), Gears to a somewhat lesser extent, Forza while great was never on the level of GT until recently and just barely.

 

[dem]

As an OG Sega fanboy..
I liked the arcade years.. but they came and went. Dead and buried.


MS by far

Xbox live
Live arcade
The Xbox controller is still the goat
First console with real apps like Netflix

 

[Beechos]

I’d give more credit to the pC engine for being the first CD console.


I credit sega for pushing the boundaries for 3D graphics with their arcade hardware ( nothing came close to Daytona USA or VF2 in the 90s and generally nothing liked better than sega arcade games in the 90s) but in the home co sole space things was a disaster. They really missed the boat by not putting dedicated 3D processing in the Saturn like Sony did with the PS1. Dream cast had the first modem but segas online service had nothing on even the first iteration of Xbox live.

Speaking of 3d graphics I think sega was the 1st company to patent a 3d engine for viruta fighter.

 

[Three]

Microsoft introduced the hard drive and proper online play to the console space. That’s bigger than anything Sega added to the industry.

Microsoft also proved that first person shooters could thrive in the console space and introduced some pretty terrific pro-consumer initiatives like Enhanced BC, Play Anywhere, and Smart Delivery.

I love the Sega of old but Microsoft contributed MUCH more to the industry.

The dreamcast had a built in modem for online play that predates xbox. It had online services too with SegaNet (US) and Dreamarena(EU).

 

[RickMasters]

Speaking of 3d graphics I think sega was the 1st company to patent a 3d engine for viruta fighter.

It was virtua racings multi view, if I recall. I always wondered if they get paid off every racing game that has multiple view points? Not sure how it works. But yeah I recall it being virtua racing and it’s multiple view points. What a thing to patent…. A feature that is a must in every racing game! True or not…. Early to mid 90s sega was a true pioneer of 3D graphics and games. Them and namco. Most people bought a PS1 for ridge race but It was cybersled for me. As much as like ridge racer the concept of cyber sled at the dawn of 3D games was just a more futurist and fantastic use of 3D graphics to me at the time. Sega rally and virtua fighter 1 and 2 were the games that sold Saturn and PS1 to me. What a golden era that was…. The dawn of 3D gaming. Glad I got to witness it first hand!

 

[RickMasters]

The dreamcast had a built in modem for online play that predates xbox. It had online services too with SegaNet (US) and Dreamarena(EU).

Those services were nowhere near what Xbox live was. Halo and the first forza online was really something. If you were only a console gamer at the time that’s the moment when online gaming on consoles fealt ready for the masses. I remember living in London at the time and having a Dreamcast. Could just about get an online game on chu chu ticket never mind a Daytona or VF3 via a 56k modem. Xbox coming in when braid band just took its hold and having something like halo was truly a game changing moment. But even then I don’t think console online gaming came into its own until Xbox 360 came along and made it part of the whole console experience. Others eagles but none excited it the way MS did with the first Xbox and then the x360. That was the generation we all made online friends for real. Easy to headset chat. Anybody who was playing rainbow six vegas on x360 in 2006 knows Damn well what I’m talking about. X360 changed everything and that was really the moment Xbox won my respect to be honest, the first Xbox really was like testing the waters for their online capabilities. And nobody was doing it like them during the first and second Xbox.

Nowadays… who don’t subscribe to a Xbox or PSN or Nintendo online service?

 

[Three]

Those services were nowhere near what Xbox live was. Halo and the first forza online was really something. If you were only a console gamer at the time that’s the moment when online gaming on consoles fealt ready for the masses. I remember living in London at the time and having a Dreamcast. Could just about get an online game on chu chu ticket never mind a Daytona or VF3 via a 56k modem. Xbox coming in when braid band just took its hold and having something like halo was truly a game changing moment. But even then I don’t think console online gaming came into its own until Xbox 360 came along and made it part of the whole console experience. Others eagles but none excited it the way MS did with the first Xbox and then the x360. That was the generation we all made online friends for real. Easy to headset chat. Anybody who was playing rainbow six vegas on x360 in 2006 knows Damn well what I’m talking about. X360 changed everything and that was really the moment Xbox won my respect to be honest, the first Xbox really was like testing the waters for their online capabilities. And nobody was doing it like them during the first and second Xbox.

Nowadays… who don’t subscribe to a Xbox or PSN or Nintendo online service?

The dreamcast unfortunately died too soon for it to benefit from broadband taking off but you can hardly blame it for there only being dialup at the time. I was a Zones user playing AOE on dialup (in London) at the time too. I was only refuting the fact that MS introduced online play to console. They didn't really, even if internet got better and dreamcast support died. That's not Sega's doing.

 

[RickMasters]

As an OG Sega fanboy..
I liked the arcade years.. but they came and went. Dead and buried.


MS by far

Xbox live
Live arcade
The Xbox controller is still the goat
First console with real apps like Netflix

This. I’m Also an OG sega fanboy ( ain’t many of us but I feel we have a unique perspective on all this as the ones who dabbled at the time) transitioned to Xbox off the back of those initial sega exclusives… pander dragoon orta and gun valkery in particular…. Still needed up buying an import PS2 just to play sega ages games ( only time We ever got arcade perfect ports of sega rally and Virtua racing…. And then of course we got a 3D Shinobi…. Those games and GT3, and MGS2 sold the PS2 to me)

But playing Xbox and halo 1 was probably the most next gen thing I recall about that generation. And that’s even with the DC being the first console with a modem. It had quake 3 and unreal but these games paled in comparison to halo 2 online. MSR was awesome but I never was able to play it online…. I was able to play its sequel MSR online with online MP though.


Xbox did some great things. They just lost their way around the tale end of the X360. Reading the market wrong… not really understanding what made the X360 a success early on. 2007 was their golden year…. Crack down, mass effect, halo 3, forza , they were the lead console for the COD that was about to change everything…. They had it all in the bag! Then they just…. Kept fumbling….. then there was the Xbox one reveal. The moment they handed Sony the lead on a platter…… Sony was never really Xbox main problem…. The real problem was always gonna be MS getting in the way of its own success.


Xbox could have been something that changes the internal culture at MS. Just a shame to see so much wasted potential. But for their time here…. They did a lot. They changed things a lot. As time goes on their achievements will be looked on more favourably. But right now I feel there is to much bad blood for that. They need to make right with their community.

 

[RickMasters]

The dreamcast unfortunately died too soon for it to benefit from broadband taking off but you can hardly blame it for there only being dialup at the time. I was a Zones user playing AOE on dialup (in London) at the time too. I was only refuting the fact that MS introduced online play to console. They didn't really, even if internet got better and dreamcast support died. That's not Sega's doing.

Again… OG sega tan here. And I’m not gonna take nothing away from sega if only out of sheer love for them. And yeah you could be right maybe if the DC was successful enough for them to keep the fight going they would have doubles down on their online efforts. But that never happens and Xbox was the one that brought it to its full potential.


I mean…. Apple never invented the MP3 player but people remember the iPod more than whatever was for what it achieved in fullness. Dreamcast was potential. The first and second Xbox was potential fulfilled in that sense. They were able to execute it all t he way. It’s unfortunate that sega couldn’t hang in there but even onsoecs they were outgunned by PS2, GC and Xbox so there’s other factors there too…… along with bad dev and publisher relations. EA thought they could strong arm sega into not making their own sports games ont he or own system, that’s how bad down sega was. Glad they told EA to shove it because rhe 2K NFL and NBA games were always better than fifa and NBA Live. Speaking of sports games, even those got their first real online player to serve to players on OG Xbox. The same 2K games at that…. Apronably also another real so many of us sega heads got the OG Xbox. It just seems like a place where degas online games would be, fully fleshed out online experiences…. And they were.

 

[GametimeUK]

I feel like Microsoft get the nod here. Its easier to go with the company that was there first and helped lay the groundwork alongside Nintendo, BUT I feel in this forever connected digital age Microsoft are THE pioneers in the space.

Microsoft with Xbox Live, party chats, an integrated store to the user interface, achievements etc is just so standard these days we actually forget how shocking the competition was in comparison to Microsoft.

Look at the PS3 and it's store upon launch compared to 360. They implemented trophies after a while. Only in recent times could you even change your PSN ID. Private chat wasn't possible on PS3.

These things are so standard now. Speaking of standard I'd even argue the Xbox controller is the default Blueprint for game controllers these days too.

I love Sega and their console war with Nintendo is legendary, but I can't deny Microsoft on this one.

 

[RickMasters]

I'm assuming we're talking *positive* impact? In that case SEGA and it isn't even close, there is a reason so many of us have such fond memories of the consoles and their games, if you weren't around you wouldn't know. There were some boneheaded business decisions like SEGA CD (yes I owned one) and 32X (avoided after CD lol) but we got so many classics, Dreamcast was ahead of it's time (midnight launch will forever be one of my most cherished gaming memories) and SEGA were really the first to push weird, quirky, experimental games like Seaman, Ecco the Dolphin, Space Channel 5, Nights, Crazy Taxi etc. Nevermind the arcade scene, good God almighty.

On the flip side, M$ implemented garbage business practices that have since become standard industry wide, tried to effectively kill game sharing, gobbled up companies and produced nothing of worth with their "investment", relied on the same 3 franchises every single gen with very little innovation or new IP. I will absolutely aknowledge HALO's impact (but how the mighty have fallen), Gears to a somewhat lesser extent, Forza while great was never on the level of GT until recently and just barely.

I often thought about how they should have handled the early 90s as the company that they were…..


The mega CD should have had some derivative of their super scaler hardware allowing for amazing ports of those arcade games at the time… and possibly encoyring the likes of SNK and capcom to go Hard with the mega CD ( remember arcade ports were the big deal back in the days) it should have also have that DVP chip albeit in a more beefed up spec, allowing the MD/mega CD to have the place to play those early 3D arcade games ( think star blade, drivers eyes, and degas model 1 games)…. That should have happened in 1993 while supporting the megadrive as its main bread and butter as usual…

The. Saturn comes along… instead of panicking at the thought of the PS1, and making the Saturn a complicated mess…. Ride out that extra year and and develop the Lockheed Martin powered the 3D proposal that sega of America had in mind while incorporating the VDP 1 and 2 for their 2X capabilities and maybe going with one SH2 on one die instead of two separate ones on the PCB.


They were the best company equipped to take on the PS1 ata. Time when namco was t he the PS1s big system selling publisher and sega could have had the same effect with their own system had they brought more of their arcade thinking it it he home in terms of hardware design.


better Saturn sales would have put them in a stronger position when the DC came around and h their AM teams transitioned to making home console games, because the arcades was gonna die the moment the gulf between them and consoles closed too much to make arcades the visual spectacle they once weee over consoles and even PCs. Could yo imagine a world where they were able to stick it and they had stuff like yakuza and persona and even fighting games like blaz blue and guiltily gear as exclusives? We might have gotten a fighters mega mix 2, which included a whole roster of sammy and atlua characters…. Persona as an exclusive with perhaps the shining series and sequels to skies of Arcadia and gra dis as way exclusives…. Man what could have been! But it was never meant to be I guess.

 

[SlimySnake]

Everyone is crediting MS for online console play but I am pretty sure Dreamcast had online play and games the day it launched. Not like sony who waited a year and a half to release an add-on. Or MS who waited a year to release Xbox Live.

MS also fucking charged for something that shouldve been free. Something that has zero cost or at least has cost thats factored in by game developers.

They also bought Bungie. It's not like Bungie wasnt going to port over Halo to consoles. Medal of Honor, Half Life, and other big FPS games around that time all got ported to consoles.

Their biggest contribution was the OG 360 lineup. Bioshock, Gears, Mass Effect, Halo 3 back to back to back. Then they completely dropped the ball and went all in on kinect just two years later to chase the Wii money. Since then, nothing. If anything, they let Sony go back to their old arrogant ways thanks to zero competition from first party.

Sega defined not just my childhood but it set the standard in many fucking genres. It wrote the book on like half a dozen genres. The Dreamcast killed them but it was ambition that killed them. That console's library is phenomenal. MS had maybe 1 year where they really competed with Sony and Nintendo. Sega did it for almost every year in the 90s without third party supporting them like they did Sony.

Since 2001 though, id say MS has been more relevant than Sega.

 

[fart town usa]

Sega hands down and that's no slight against XBOX.

XBOX and the 360 are legit great consoles but SEGA was doing all kinds of shit in the 80s and 90s that is really crazy to look back on and see the big picture. One of Sega's biggest issues is that they were always so damn early to market, to the point that it would always come back and bite them.

 

[Three]

Again… OG sega tan here. And I’m not gonna take nothing away from sega if only out of sheer love for them. And yeah you could be right maybe if the DC was successful enough for them to keep the fight going they would have doubles down on their online efforts. But that never happens and Xbox was the one that brought it to its full potential.


I mean…. Apple never invented the MP3 player but people remember the iPod more than whatever was for what it achieved in fullness. Dreamcast was potential. The first and second Xbox was potential fulfilled in that sense. They were able to execute it all t he way. It’s unfortunate that sega couldn’t hang in there but even onsoecs they were outgunned by PS2, GC and Xbox so there’s other factors there too…… along with bad dev and publisher relations. EA thought they could strong arm sega into not making their own sports games ont he or own system, that’s how bad down sega was. Glad they told EA to shove it because rhe 2K NFL and NBA games were always better than fifa and NBA Live. Speaking of sports games, even those got their first real online player to serve to players on OG Xbox. The same 2K games at that…. Apronably also another real so many of us sega heads got the OG Xbox. It just seems like a place where degas online games would be, fully fleshed out online experiences…. And they were.

Believe it or not SegaNet was more popular than xbox live so it wasn't about popularity like the ipod. xbox live just had more time and more console releases to build itself up. Maybe it was because it was free online play on the Dreamcast but this is what it was like:

"Just over a month after launch, by October 27, 2000, SegaNet had 1.55 million Dreamcast consoles registered online, including 750,000 in Japan, 400,000 in North America, and 400,000 in Europe. In comparison, Xbox Live which later launched in 2002, took nearly two years to reach 1 million online users, in July 2004."


Dreamcast support unfortunately just died too soon for it to get anywhere and become more feature rich but they certainly introduced online play without the need for additional hardware. I don't think that can be taken away from them just because xbox live became more popular and Internet faster throughout the years.

If that's the case the same argument can be made for the OG Xbox and introducing the HDD. The original xbox introduced the built in HDD to consoles but it was hemorrhaging money for MS and they killed it fast partially due to that cost (& Nvidia screwing them) . For their HDD For 360 they went the same route as the earlier PS2 with an optional HDD for that reason. It would be like discrediting the OG xbox and saying that HDDs were in fact introduced to consoles by the PS3 because the OG xbox HDD was pitiful in that regard and the PS3 made HDDs in console much more popular with better support (much like xbox did with online play) . The OG xbox HDD was only 6gb and used for settings and save blocks mostly and the OG had poor sales. HDDs in consoles and disc/dvd game installs didn’t really become popular until the PS3, doesn't mean that OG xbox didn’t introduce the HDD though much like I wouldn't say Sega didn't introduce online play as standard.

Even if OG xbox was shortlived, had a measly capacity at the time and didn't have features like installing full blown games it introduced the HDD as standard. Even if Dreamcast was shortlived, had dialup speeds at the time and didn't have features like party chat it introduced online play as standard. That's how I see it.

Just a fun fact regarding sports games since you mentioned them. The most popular sports game at the time Madden didn't get online support on Xbox, it had it on PS2 exclusively since EA wanted to use their own servers.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Xbox OG is literally built upon the Sega US team and experience. It was a direct continuation of many Dreamcast concepts (gamepad, online).

Sega by a mile.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Sega had Mega-CD and Game Gear, so Sega by default.