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[Tuck]

Right, and this dude is trying to start a dialogue on changing the exclusionary thinking that dominates some of the most influential cultures and economies on Earth (China and Japan). And instead of trying to encourage this inclusivity, even Americans who personally understand the benefit or integration and who understand the pain of racist exclusionism just handwave this issue away as "Asians will always be Asian, dumb weaboo." So what hope do they have?

Exactly. Surprised and a bit disappointed at the views expressed in this thread.

The west is not the only group of countries that can benefit from further immigration.

Maybe its just cause of the extents the author goes to which make it seem a bit weaboo ish (like dressing in classical chinese clothing)

 

[Crisium]

If someone immigrates here, becomes a citizen, meshes with the culture they're considered "American" regardless of their actual origin. For countries that are more homogeneous (yes I'm aware there are tons of subgroups in China, but for lack of a better word) why should someone essentially doing the same thing still be considered a foreigner?

Good question.

If you are a "traditionally white" child raised in China I think sure this might be a bit thorny

If you're just an expat? Hahahahahahaa

Also adult refugee migrants can never adopt another nationality - good point. Born/raised in the culture, or bust.

 

[KillLaCam]

Dude is complexed. Dude wants to be Tibetan, Russian, Serbian, Japanese, and American. Dude transcended Weaboo.

I'll never be able to understand him It's like he learns just enough about a culture to be interested in it. Then stops learning about it right away. But then thinks he's a member of that culture haha

 

[Hopeford]

No, I feel you. I much prefer living in America than Korea. And I, based on my experiences, growing up, have difficulty accepting what he says at face value.

I am giving him the biggest mental side eye.

I am admittedly giving him the benefit of the doubt, but yeah I admit there's a fair amount of room in not taking what he says 100% at face value. There is a decent chance the article doesn't quite raise the point I think it does.

I am looking at it like the guy immigrated to China, did his best to adapt, gained citizenship and feels Chinese the same way I feel Canadian, and just accidentally gave the wrong impression in the article once or twice. But yeah, there is a lot of room to argue that the way he feels is a little different, especially given one or two points he wrote.

I might be being a little too hopeful here.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

What's weaboo for Chinese things?

Lu-a Bu

 

[Goofalo]

I'm not sure what this means but it feels borderline racist for some reason.

In my case, My father is half Chinese and half Mexican. He grew up in Chihuahua and his first language is Spanish. He speaks English as well, He has a heavy Mexican accent though. He never knew his Chinese father for reasons undisclosed to me and thus was never able to pass on any cultural influence other than Mexican.

White washed is often used by Asian-Americans as a pejorative to another Asian-American (It can apply to other ethnicities) that they do not have enough connection to their heritage or culture. The irony being, that as self appointed gatekeepers, their connection is "diluted" because they have been raised in the US. Conversely, Asian-Americans also often use FOB as a pejorative against other Asians, for not assimilating to US culture enough. Which is weird, because, they are easily closer to the traditional cultural background, the Asian-Americans will discriminate against Asian-Americans for not having.

Did that make sense?

 

[Einchy]

Some of the responses in this thread kinda sadden me, because I don't see much difference between me and him. I'm Latino, but also Canadian - and I identify as the latter., by virtue of having grown up in(and live in) Canada. Some responses here comparing him to Rachel Dolezal remind me of racist old people telling me I'll never be Canadian no matter what my passport says.

I mean, only difference between him and I are the countries we emigrated to, really. But people aren't qualifying their statements even as "Well, it will be difficult for him to be seen that way given the way that country's culture is..." but rather this weird undertone that you can't be a "real" member of a nationality if you aren't born there. And that's...eh.

...That said, him dressing up in traditional Chinese wear is a little man, there's such a thing as trying too hard to fit in. Certain aspects of your new culture are more traditional than daily, and understanding the difference between the two is part of fitting in. It would be like me taking part in hockey riots out of season /s

I completely agree with you.

I was born in Mexico, but moved to America when I was 7 years old, and for a really long time I felt weird about calling myself American because of the opinions being expressed in this thread. I've lived a huge chunk of my life in America and have way more connections to it than I do Mexico but I guess I can never actually be American like this guy can never be considered Chinese or you Canadian.

 

[Izuna]

Anyway, jokes aside, this is actually an interesting question. I'd probably urge people not to go with the gut reaction and compare him to Rachel Dolezal. She intentionally tried to deceive people and seemed to only relate, on a very base and insulting level, to black culture. This guy, on the other hand, is pointing to a situation where he's not denying what he is ethnically only proposing that culturally he feels Chinese. What's interesting is that we kind of take this cultural integration for granted in the US. If someone immigrates here, becomes a citizen, meshes with the culture they're considered "American" regardless of their actual origin. For countries that are more homogeneous (yes I'm aware there are tons of subgroups in China, but for lack of a better word) why should someone essentially doing the same thing still be considered a foreigner?

I think the key point is that China and America are different countries with different laws and perspectives on nationality.

White washed is often used by Asian-Americans as a pejorative to another Asian-American (It can apply to other ethnicities) that they do not have enough connection to their heritage or culture. The irony being, that as self appointed gatekeepers, their connection is "diluted" because they have been raised in the US. Conversely, Asian-Americans also often use FOB as a pejorative against other Asians, for not assimilating to US culture enough. The irony being, they are easily closer to the traditional cultural background, the Asian-Americans will discriminate against Asian-Americans for not having.

Did that make sense?

Isn't the term "banana"?

I've heard that in jest many times.

 

[Goofalo]

YES

Isn't the term "banana"?

I've heard that in jest many times.

Or twinkie. Coconut. ABC. ABCD.

 

[Valkerionseven]

I mean I understood the part about wanting to be accepted by his current home whole heartedly, especially after living there for so long and having their life there....

But that is not the way to say or look at it lol.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I think the key point is that China and America are different countries with different laws and perspectives on nationality.

Well I think that's the dialogue he's trying to start and get to the bottom of why that is. Is it just xenophobia? Extreme nationalism that only includes born nationals? What is it?

 

[webkatt]

White washed is often used by Asian-Americans as a pejorative to another Asian-American (It can apply to other ethnicities) that they do not have enough connection to their heritage or culture. The irony being, that as self appointed gatekeepers, their connection is "diluted" because they have been raised in the US. Conversely, Asian-Americans also often use FOB as a pejorative against other Asians, for not assimilating to US culture enough. Which is weird, because, they are easily closer to the traditional cultural background, the Asian-Americans will discriminate against Asian-Americans for not having.

Did that make sense?

Yeah makes sense. Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing going on. Went to high school in San Gabriel and was witness to some of that. Assumed it was kids being mean kids.

 

[Izuna]

Well I think that's the dialogue he's trying to start and get to the bottom of why that is. Is it just xenophobia? Extreme nationalism that only includes born nationals? What is it?

I don't know the full reasons or history, but at the very least USA (FOUNDED BY IMMIGRANTS) LAND OF THE FREE seems like it hones in on acceptance a crap ton more.

As a Londoner, you're considered one even if you stay a few years (even without citizenship).

But I wouldn't consider a Brit who spent 40 years in France... French.

tl;dr I don't have an answer but the man in the OP is on some Debito shit.

 

[Goofalo]

Yeah makes sense. Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing going on. Went to high school in San Gabriel and was witness to some of that. Assumed it was kids being mean kids.

Asian-Americans that are from denser populations of other Asians are where its more pronounced.

No one gave me shit for being "white-washed" because there weren't really any other Asian kids in Central PA where I grew up to give me shit.

The fuck is this shit?

I mean seriously what in the ever loving fuck.

I kind of feel this might be the most prevalent collective thought of Asian-GAF

 

[MUnited83]

I think the key point is that China and America are different countries with different laws and perspectives on nationality.



Isn't the term "banana"?

I've heard that in jest many times.

Chinese law allows people to apply for Chinese nationality.

 

[KillLaCam]

The fuck is this shit?


This guy is troll. There's no way this is true. He fooled the WSJ, because this shit can't be real.





I mean seriously what in the ever loving fuck.

I didn't even notice that he said that.

Oh man he might really be Steven Seagal

 

[Rmagnus]

Good question.



Also adult refugee migrants can never adopt another nationality - good point. Born/raised in the culture, or bust.

Er.. I think people are mixing up nationality and race tbh

 

[Izuna]

Or twinkie. Coconut. ABC. ABCD.

This girl (American born, grew up in UK) was called ABC by Chinese and Taiwanese colleagues on her first day of work.

I was like "isn't it... the other way around?"

She was half-white too. I honestly think that AsAms must have it hard when it comes to acceptance especially in America. You're Asian to people in your country yet not Asian enough in Asia ;(

 

[wandering]

It reminds of these youtubers, who have been living in China for ages, but admit they'll never be considered "Chinese".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2_L71lFItk

Funny enough, some Chinese people on bilibili or one of the other services started attacking his channel and tried to report him to the police for spying. So yeah, Chinese people kind of suck.

Lol that channel is full of toxic click bait

Also lol at the casual racism that no one will care about

 

[Izuna]

Chinese law allows people to apply for Chinese nationality.

Isn't this with some caveats tho? Like you can't vote or something? I dunno, I only heard stuff from some colleagues about it but I never confirmed anything.

 

[FUME5]

What a load of vapid shit.

 

[rtcn63]

Y'all need to stop hatin' on Seagal

 

[boiled goose]

Chinese has not just nationality, but also ethnic/racial meanings.

It's not that hard.

 

[Hopeford]

I completely agree with you.

I was born in Mexico, but moved to America when I was 7 years old, and for a really long time I felt weird about calling myself American because of the opinions being expressed in this thread. I've lived a huge chunk of my life in America and have way more connections to it than I do Mexico but I guess I can never actually be American like this guy can never be considered Chinese or you Canadian.

Feel the same way, especially about feeling weird about calling myself Canadian. Honestly...there are going to be people who don't think we are "really" of that nationality. I've made my peace with that. But I think we should always think of ourselves as American and Canadian, even if some people would disagree with us. No reason to let them win.

And hopefully a lot of the early posts in this thread are just indicative of people thinking "There are complex sociological reasons that would make this man being accepted as such / his thoughts are portrayed in such a way that damage his argument" and just posted borderline "You aren't a real member of X nationality if you aren't of the right ethnicity" posts by accident. I choose to believe that most people just didn't think about what their posts were coming across as and that almost no one in the thread would double down on what I took their posts as meaning. Like, I probably/hopefully just misread some posts from earlier.

But yeah bro, I get you - it's tough. Some people will never see us the way we see ourselves, and they'll be rather racist the moment they realize it - but we know what we are, and that's what matters right?

 

[Goofalo]

This girl (American born, grew up in UK) was called ABC by Chinese and Taiwanese colleagues on her first day of work.

I was like "isn't it... the other way around?"

She was half-white too. I honestly think that AsAms must have it hard when it comes to acceptance especially in America. You're Asian to people in your country yet not Asian enough in Asia ;(

Yup.

 

[mdubs]

Chinese has not just nationality, but also ethnic/racial meanings.

It's not that hard.

I say as a Chinese person we need to get away from this. Especially if we want a country like China to open up to immigration. What does it say if migrants, wherever they are from, are continually told that they or their children can never be "Chinese"? We need to disentangle the nation-state from notions of ethnicity to facilitate this.

 

[Goofalo]

Y'all need to stop hatin' on Seagal

No. He murdered all those kids.

 

[Izuna]

Yup.

My partner has this AsAm friend who is going through identity crisis atm (seeing if she's comfortable in Tokyo) and we talked a bunch about her where all I could share was being mixed in London vs. Manchester (so not really relevant).

This book, however... I'll recommend it. Thanks.

 

[watershed]

The fuck is this shit?


This guy is troll. There's no way this is true. He fooled the WSJ, because this shit can't be real.





I mean seriously what in the ever loving fuck.



Bro if NO ONE ELSE is doing it IN THAT COUNTRY maybe you are a fetishising idiot or don't actually understand the country you're in. Why the fuck are you attempting to gatekeep "Chinese culture."

He feels he is more Chinese than the Chinese people around him. He says that in the article. Sounds like he has a weird idea of Chinese purity.

 

[DOWN]

Is this like how people who live in NYC for a decade are considered a New Yorker? Like he’s saying why don’t other places have that kind of globally accepted designation for the type of people that make up the greater population of the place?

I don’t think ‘being Chinese’ is the right terminology for this. What do you call non-Asian people born and raised in China? Like what’s the equivalent for how we just call anyone that is an American citizen an American?

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

i couldnt be chinese cause i dont know kung fu

 

[KillLaCam]

I mean, I understand that it's frustrating to not be able to be considered a citizen of your country, but writing this, if he's actually serious, is really gross.

Yeah it'd be like if a Chinese person came to America and wore Football gear and a Cowboy hat to his meetings. I don't even know why he would think that its OK.


I kinda understand where he's coming from he moved from a country where he'd easily be accepted as a member of the culture/ country. To somewhere that he may not be able to be completely accepted as a member of the culture. That's probably a really difficult situation when you aren't used to growing up that way

 

[Geist-]

Considering I have family members who are full-blooded Filipino relatives who consider themselves very patriotic Americans, I can understand why a guy who lives in a country for a couple decades would want to be considered a part of his country's society rather than just another foreigner.

On the other hand, he does come across as a cultural fetishist, so it feels a little creepy.

 

[Izuna]

He feels he is more Chinese than the Chinese people around him. He says that in the article. Sounds like he has a weird idea of Chinese purity.

Spoiler

I don't want to undermine Debito man because he did a lot of great shit, but this man thinks he's the Chinese equivalent

 

[MUnited83]

Is this like how people who live in NYC for a decade are considered a New Yorker? Like he's saying why don't other places have that kind of globally accepted designation for the type of people that make up the greater population of the place?

I don't think ‘being Chinese' is the right terminology for this. What do you call non-Asian people born and raised in China? Like what's the equivalent for how we just call anyone that is an American citizen an American?

Chinese is the right terminology for that.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I say as a Chinese person we need to get away from this. Especially if we want a country like China to open up to immigration. What does it say if migrants, wherever they are from, are continually told that they or their children can never be "Chinese"? We need to disentangle the nation-state from notions of ethnicity to facilitate this.

Tbf China doesnt seem keen on opening up? For one their internet is restricted to hell when it comes to the outside world.

Two, China isnt Canada or America. It wasnt built on the notion of immigrants colonising an outside land.

Like...I get what youre saying, but China being open to immigrants isnt a feasible reality?

 

[norm9]

you usually get adopted into a society if you can prove your worth. this fool got nothing.

 

[DOWN]

Chinese is the right terminology for that.

But it sounds like that is not widely accepted, since there are specific ethnic ties for the word Chinese. If it were just a nationality like American then this wouldn’t be an article in the first place

 

[Renekton]

Or twinkie. Coconut. ABC. ABCD.

ABCD is for South Asian Indians, not Chinese haha

I say as a Chinese person we need to get away from this. Especially if we want a country like China to open up to immigration. What does it say if migrants, wherever they are from, are continually told that they or their children can never be "Chinese"? We need to disentangle the nation-state from notions of ethnicity to facilitate this.

Unfortunately China is doubling-down on the Confucian Han. They are expanding the Han population across other zones in their own country, and also wooing the diaspora which have been great connectors for them to the SEA region.

It works sometimes because some Chinese diaspora tend to get racially-discriminated by their adoptive country (e.g. Malaysia) so we may feel more connected by ethnicity

 

[Izuna]

Yeah, I agree with you here. It's often frustrating to see how much emphasis is put on Chinese meaning ethnically Chinese. Of course, for me it's from the other way (that because I am ethnically Chinese, I am considered "Chinese" and not truly American, by both Chinese and Americans!)

But then again for a lot of people, race and ethnicity go hand in hand. I have to say I'm Taiwanese American, which when applied to me means I am American of Taiwanese ethnicity. But funnily enough, "true" Taiwanese people don't consider me "Taiwanese," they consider me Chinese. & people who were born in Taiwan and raised here in the states don't consider me Taiwanese American, just American.

There's a lot of hangups about blood and where your ancestors lived.

The whole "truly American" thing is complete racism though, because the white is default BS in a country founded by immigrants is trash.

For the POV of identity, people should choose what they are comfortable with, but the emphasis and necessity to prexit -American is a problem.

It's a fortunate thing when travelling though. I am considered English the most when I'm not in my country.

 

[Fuchsdh]

He's got a point in that the Chinese identity is more limited than in more mixed western societies, but if he really desires to be considered Chinese... good luck and all, but it likely isn't happening (and it comes off kind of weird to boot.)

 

[Rmagnus]

But it sounds like that is not widely accepted, since there are specific ethnic ties for the word Chinese. If it were just a nationality like American then this wouldn’t be an article in the first place

华人 Is a term use to mention race. Translated in English is Chinese. 中国人 Is nationality for people in China, which is also Chinese in English. Hope people are able to see the difference.

 

[Blablurn]

everyone wants to be chinese, but no one wants to be chinese

 

[firehawk12]

Lol that channel is full of toxic click bait

Also lol at the casual racism that no one will care about

Yeah the titles are clickbaitey but I find some of their videos interesting if only because it's not the typical China is great type videos you get from people who are basically tourists. lol

 

[Goofalo]

ABCD is for South Asian Indians, not Chinese haha

Its used the same way.

 

[l2ounD]

I don’t think ‘being Chinese’ is the right terminology for this. What do you call non-Asian people born and raised in China? Like what’s the equivalent for how we just call anyone that is an American citizen an American?

What do you call non white americans? Asian-american... african-american..

I'm guessing its similar in China, Canadian-Chinese. I dunno.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

sense sentence this makes no

Makes perfect sense. An Asian can be American. He wants to know why another ethnicity can't be Chinese.

Biggest reason is just that the Chinese don't fucking want us to be. They'll use us for our knowledge then tell us to get out when we're older.

 

[mdubs]

What do you call non white americans? Asian-american... african-american..

I'm guessing its similar in China, Canadian-Chinese. I dunno.

I can tell you I would not appreciate being called a "chinese-canadian". My nationality is Canadian and my ethnicity has nothing to do with it.

 

[MUnited83]

But it sounds like that is not widely accepted, since there are specific ethnic ties for the word Chinese

But there isn't. If you have Chinese nationality, Chinese is who you are, that's what the words mean. Trying it to specific ethnic ties makes no sense and it's a very dangerous slippery slope, considering China's issues with many of the smaller ethnicities that have been living in the country for centuries.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

I mean it's a good thing to try to push against nativism in all countries That being said thats going to be a himalayan size goal to reach especially in Modern China which could be considered quite a bit less cosmopolitan than for example Tang China.