• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Why isn't Taito as revered as Nintendo?

had no idea it was on PS3! Maybe I will buy it, thanks for the heads-up. iOS version was cool, but could only be so enjoyable with your finger blocking the screen..

No problem! Looking at the wikipedia page it looks like the PSN version of Infinity Gene also had additional features.

Their games aren't as good and they didn't manage to evolve in the same way

Not as good? Compared to what? It's not like Nintendo was doing many arcade-style games past the early '80s. I'll agree that they didn't evolve though. It seems to me that Taito's downfall was not that they didn't have a console, but they didn't expand (afaik) into more popular genres like JRPGs.
 

Dizzy

Banned
As great as those games were, Taito kind of dropped off the face of the face of the Earth after a point. Looking at wikipedia, many of their games were never released outside of Japan which explains it.
 
Not as good? Compared to what? It's not like Nintendo was doing many arcade-style games past the early '80s. I'll agree that they didn't evolve though. It seems to me that Taito's downfall was not that they didn't have a console, but they didn't expand (afaik) into more popular genres like JRPGs.

Taito published games like Lufia II in Japan. But yeah, they didn't expand into different types of games.
 
One of the things I like about Taito is that their games have style.

Take Gun Frontier for example.
In stage 2 there's this badass waterfall.

https://youtu.be/SLOIw8u-wiE?t=358

There's actually a bit of a story behind it's creation.
http://shmuplations.com/gunfrontier2/

Also, this is a small digression, but... the selling point, graphically, for Gun Frontier was the waterfall in stage 2. Management was really insistent that this scene be in the game. They even said that if it wasn't there, the development would be put on hold. Unfortunately the three frames of hand-drawn animation needed to be put together, and the only person who could do that work was me. But I had no time, and on top of it, I also had to write a report on our new character tool software. I decided to tackle these tasks during my summer vacation time.

As part of a cost-savings scheme, the company wouldn't turn on the air conditioning if only one employee was working. The new character tool software was running on prototype hardware, so it didn't have a fan installed, and after about an hour it would overheat. I had to do my work by constantly switching between the old and new character tool hardware, saving my work to floppy every time before it overheated. I remember how long it took to save a file, noisily clattering away. And there were times when it would overheat in the middle of saving and I'd lose everything. The temperature in that development room was over 40 degrees celsius as I hurriedly did my work. And with no one else there, I decided to strip down to my underwear and wrap a cool towel around my head...

So even today when I see the background animation for the waterfall, I feel a cool sensation run through my body. Management liked it too, and the project was allowed to continue.

At some point, a kindly security guard saw my half-naked self and took pity on me, and turned on the air conditioning for me for a few hours each day. Also, one of the hardware developers came back to the office for something he forgot and heard about me, and he brought a cooling unit about the size of an arcade cabinet into the office for me.

Even today I am grateful to those two. Without them, perhaps Gun Frontier would never have seen the light of day. But when I think back on myself then, living every grade schooler's dream job!—when I think of how silly I looked there sitting in my underwear and covered in sweat... I can't help but laugh at it all.
 

dogen

Member
Really? What about AVP? I prefer stuff like Ninja Warriors as well. I wouldn't put Comix Zone in my personal top 10 of combat in a side scroller. That said, I can understand why you put it up there. You get lots of options. I just feel the way the game handles these options isn't always the best and the enemies tend to be absolute damage sponges so killing enemies doesn't feel satisfying and what should be a basic fight turns into something that feels like you're just endlessly beating up on an enemy waiting for it to die. I also find the difficulty in Comix Zone to be extremely inflated, a consequence probably due to its short length. Of the notable 16 bit beat em ups I rate it pretty low, but that's me I guess.

Well, I've never played AVP or Ninja Warriors, but I've played a lot of streets of rage, some of the turtles sidescrollers, some of the other capcom ones like cadillacs and dinosaurs.

I'm not saying comix zone is better than those necessarily, just that it feels amazing. The sense of impact with each hit, and the way enemies slam into walls after a combo, just feels super great to me.

The game is definitely pretty hard, but for me it's because unless you know where all the health potions are it's hard to stay alive the whole way through even if you play well.

If the individual enemies feel too tough, maybe you should play some more and try to get more familiar with the moves. There aren't too many, but more than most beat em up type games. I had the same kind of trouble with enemies feeling like they were too tough, until I figured out the combat is supposed to be played more like a fighting game and not a normal beat em up.

Now I have to go play some comix zone.
 
One of the things I like about Taito is that their games have style.

Take Gun Frontier for example.
In stage 2 there's this badass waterfall.

https://youtu.be/SLOIw8u-wiE?t=358

There's actually a bit of a story behind it's creation.
http://shmuplations.com/gunfrontier2/

Great post.

Another example is G-Darius (again my favorite shooter). It's brimming with style despite the poor low poly 3d models.

https://youtu.be/KGpGTZrq6dc

I mean, look at how stylish the first stage is. The music slowly pumping up as you progress through the stage. That cool backgrounds panning around in badass angles. A fucking ship explodes in the background it's so badass. There's all this cool crap going on and it's this basic ass 3d horizontal shooter. The animations for the boss are so cool. I kind of like 2d shooters but I could never get into other companies shooters as much as Taito's. They're just brimming with personality that make you want to see/hear it again and again.

That incredible music, dude.
 

ffvorax

Member
Probably because usually their games are not associated directly to them?

Bubble Bobble,Puzzle Bobble, Space Invader, and many other that have been already told... all great games... but some of them I didn't knew where from them...

And I actually love most of these, also play them time by time...

But for sure they did a lot of incredible fun games!
 

AmyS

Member
I find that I actually like G-Darius as a game more than Dariusburst: Chronicle Saviours, mainly because of the background visuals and boss designs. Obviously, DB:CS is a much more modern game than G-Darius which was based on PS1, but I'm really enjoying G-Darius lately, and hope that one day they make another one like that on modern hardware.
 
To expand upon PepsimanVSJoe's fantastic post once again, Once upon a time during summer vacation my family took a trip to Las Vegas in 96. One day my cousin and I were allowed to prowl around our hotel all day. This hotel had a massive arcade. We walked into the arcade with the intention of playing some fighters that were just then being displayed in game mags. Namely Virtua Fighter 3 (which was brand new and was displayed on huge monitors), but also Street Fighter Alpha 2.

We ended up seeing a lone machine tucked next to Metal Slug that wasn't getting much play. It was Space Invaders 95. I was attracted to it through the bright colors and personality infused animations that make Parodius look like amateur hour (I think Parodius is a better game though).

Just look at it.

7vFxKGG.gif


rd7Xqjl.gif


GV49Pxt.gif


And yet, despite the fact we came there for fighters we spent more time at the cab playing co-op than we did playing VF3 and SFA2.

Pictures do not do the game justice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRntcMAWjW0

Taito were masters at bringing an arcade cabinet to life, probably equal to or even more so than Sega. Fucking legends. That was the only time I ever saw Space Invaders 95 in an arcade. When I read that Taito Legends 2 had it I almost shat my pants.
 

Occam

Member
There was a 22 year old on a game show last night that had never heard of Bruce Springsteen.

I don't really like his music and don't follow him but I've HEARD of him. Youngsters...

Cranky_RockingChair.gif

Well, we live in a time where people stopped being ashamed of their ignorance and instead started to think of it as some kind of achievement (it's the opposite).
If you like videogames, educate yourself about the history of the medium.
In a time where Wikipedia exists, there is no excuse to remain ignorant.

If you have never heard of Taito, Namco and Hudson, then look them up.

Taito was one of the greatest arcade companies, but when the time of the arcades came to a close and the company was bought by Square-Enix, most of Taito's amazing catalog was forgotten and no longer expanded upon. For shame.
 
I think the question should be, why Taito is not named in the same regards as Sega, Konami or Capcom are, since Nintendo is simply in a different position with still being a platform holder these days.

And the answer is, like it has been said in this thread a couple of times before, Taito never adapted to modern 3D gaming.

They just ceased to be relevant a long time ago.
 

gelf

Member
Growing up in the UK a place where we didn't need Nintendo to save us from a crash I'd say Taito was a big deal back then. Every kid I knew with a microcomputer had some version of Bubble Bobble or Rainbow Islands.

It's a shame they are so forgotten, and fuck anyone acting proud that they don't know who they are.
 

Celine

Member
Not liking Taito is whatever, but not even knowing who they are is blowing my mind on an enthusiast gaming forum.
Knowing VG history isn't required to be on a enthusiast gaming forum.
Think about it, gaffers who are 20 now have a low chance to have ever played a Sega console just because Sega exited the console business before they began gaming (and even before they were a small player).
So maybe for younger gamers Sega is more known for Sonic or the PC games they publish now than for Sega amazing achievements in the arcades.
 

Ninja Dom

Member
Taito fell off in the 90's when they saw how much money they were making from Puzzle Bobble. They've never been the same since.
 

Psxphile

Member
Bubble Bobble was my jam, and in the arcades I was enthralled with New Zealand Story even though it got hard as balls as you went on. I loved accidentally coming across all those hidden warps and that strange Heaven level you'd sometimes get sent to if you lose all your lives.

I played Arkanoid on my NES so much back in the day. it came with a dedicated controller too!

dpUH0Zsl.png

I had this. I couldn't even stomach playing with a d-pad after I had that sweet Vaus controller in my grubby little hands.


And look, they kept doing it!

ubDWQTc.jpg


Can you even still get these in the wild?


So, when's the Vic Tokai thread? I want to talk about my main man, Billy "Big Bang" Blitz.

tumblr_n8ogipayV81r7sijxo1_500.gif
 

Celine

Member
They may have had more interest in the programming and creative talent than in the licenses. Or they may have only been interested in the licenses to earn royalties on them.
Nope, Square-Enix bought Taito for a efty price because they were interested in Taito Arcade centers (SE wanted to expand into arcades).
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Space Invaders essentially created video-gaming as we know it.

Without it, the arcades would never have blown up globally and kickstarted a desire for people to have the same sort of experiences at home.

Possibly even more importantly it showed that video-games could be about more than just bat and ball simulations.
 

2+2=5

The Amiga Brotherhood
Wow i didn't know that all those games were from taito!
Taito definitively deserve more reverence but you know how things work...
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Disagree strongly but you don't like Taito much anyways.

I don't like Namco's classics much besides Ms Pac Man and Mr. Driller. Of the bigger Japanese arcade companies they've always been at the bottom for me.

Sega is actually the top for me regarding Japanese developers, but the Genesis collection has plenty of filler itself. Games like Comix Zone and 3D Blast aren't that great. The fact the collection is based around a system also limits the type of games it can have. It is in no way a definitive Sega collection and making it a Genesis collection limits its true potential. That said, I won't berudge anyone who thinks it's the best game collection of all time, because it's certainly up there.

I think Taito Legends 1 is fantastic as well. But 2 has my favorite 2d shooter on it: G-Darius. It also has Elevator Action Returns, Qix, Legend of Kage arcade, Kiki Kaikai, Raystorm and Rayforce. Legends 2 appeals to me a lot more than the other game collections. I wish Sega would put out a more definitive collection with stuff like arcade perfect Outrun, Shining Force III, Panzer Dragoon, Dreamcast games;etc. maybe even Shinobi ps2.

I think saying Legends 2 only has Elevator Action Returns is...madness.

The "Ray" shooters are good. I forgot all about those. Qix is great as well. The others...meh

An collection of Sega's arcade titles would be the greatest collection ever. Sega seems to not mind leaving money on the table when it comes to their vault of classics.

I'm surprised at the Namco bottom tier comments. I love their output. Galaga ranks right up their with the Pac Man titles for me. Rolling Thunder ranks right up there with Elevator Action. And I love their more "modern" 3D output like Soul Blade, Ridge Racer, Ace Combat and Tekken.
 

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
Knowing VG history isn't required to be on a enthusiast gaming forum.
Think about it, gaffers who are 20 now have a low chance to have ever played a Sega console just because Sega exited the console business before they began gaming (and even before they were a small player).
So maybe for younger gamers Sega is more known for Sonic or the PC games they publish now than for Sega amazing achievements in the arcades.
I dunno, GAF just doesn't seem like the type of enthusiast forum you come to if you're only interested in the here and now of gaming. There are tons of threads here that delve into game history, you would think folks that hang around here a lot would develop a good working familiarity with gaming's past just by being in contact with the place for awhile. It'd be one thing if it were just juniors expressing that "Never heard of them," sentiment in this thread, but there's folks who have been here for years and years saying it, saying they've never heard of Darius or Arkanoid. And yeah, that's pretty shocking.

I think the person that said it's like being on a film enthusiast forum and not knowing who Warner Bros was a bit hyperbolic with throwing out that ubiquitous of an example, but the sentiment's not far off. Maybe more like not knowing about Columbia or MGM. Taito's heyday is gone, but they were a big presence in gaming's formative years. It's not like we're talking about Toaplan or Electro Brain or something, Taito wasn't far removed from the level of Sega and Konami in terms of visibility and output in the 70's/80's/early 90's. And Space Invaders is a massive touchstone in gaming history, right there with Pac-man and Super Mario Bros. That somebody here outright said they'd never heard of that is madness.
 
I'm not necessarily referring exclusively to the depth (or lack thereof) of the game play, although that *is* a prominent element in this argument. I just prefer games that let you do all sorts of crazy stuff from the offset, and Sega games tend to scratch that itch better than Nintendo games do. I'm talking about Sega games/series like Dynamite Cop, Jet Set Radio (which really hasn't aged well, but looks *amazing* when you get into a groove), Panzer Dragoon, etc. They just have less of a build-up to the really fun stuff.

Ah, I see what you mean now. It really isn't strictly about style over substance; I'd argue that all three of these have plenty of gameplay, and thus, substance. As a matter of fact, I consider games that get straight into the action to have a much better substance/style ratio that games where you need to go through cutscenes, tutorials, easy stuff... For me arcade games are the pinnacle of substance over style.
 
The "Ray" shooters are good. I forgot all about those. Qix is great as well. The others...meh

An collection of Sega's arcade titles would be the greatest collection ever. Sega seems to not mind leaving money on the table when it comes to their vault of classics.

I'm surprised at the Namco bottom tier comments. I love their output. Galaga ranks right up their with the Pac Man titles for me. Rolling Thunder ranks right up there with Elevator Action. And I love their more "modern" 3D output like Soul Blade, Ridge Racer, Ace Combat and Tekken.

I like modern Namco a lot more than their retro stuff but as a Sega fan back then I was always miffed by how their most popular games were clones of Sega games. It was like Sega would release something amazing and Namco would copy that and it'd be even more popular. I like their 3D era WAY more than their 2D era though.
 

Fularu

Banned
Seeing people not know who Taito is (was) makes me fell old as fuck..

And super sad at the same time.. as sad as when no one knew who Pc Genjin was :(
 
While of course I would not have known the history of Taito back in the 80s, I certainly knew of one their games in particular. Operation Wolf.

Several times when my family and I went on vacation I played Operation Wolf any chance I got. It was my favorite coin-op arcade game. My dad even liked it.



rsgLm92.jpg


Fr7GGgE.jpg


Wk35E4w.png
bUrIchh.png


If you're over 30, you should know this game.

It was followed up a year or so later with Operation Thunderbolt (1988) and then Operation Wolf 3 in the early 90s.
thunderbolt was way better!

why? cause you can play as Hardy Jones!
 
I'm not necessarily referring exclusively to the depth (or lack thereof) of the game play, although that *is* a prominent element in this argument. I just prefer games that let you do all sorts of crazy stuff from the offset, and Sega games tend to scratch that itch better than Nintendo games do. I'm talking about Sega games/series like Dynamite Cop, Jet Set Radio (which really hasn't aged well, but looks *amazing* when you get into a groove), Panzer Dragoon, etc. They just have less of a build-up to the really fun stuff.

That game you said didn't age well has amazing substance. Saying Sega games had style over substance is hysterics.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=702187

I bet most of the people who say Sega games were style over substance can't jet rank JSR and can't beat Revenge of Shinobi. Nintendo fans who say Sega lack substance while drooling over F-Zero GX is one of life's funniest jokes. They both have substance but in different ways. I'd argue that Nintendo started to make their games easier and easier by the early 90's to appeal to cast a wider net, but I don't see anything Nintendo making having the nuance of beating Daytona on the hardest difficulty at the arcade back in the day. When Nintendo was neautering their game library with stuff like Wind Waker, Sega was making crazy hard games like Shinobi ps2.

Both companies had substance and style. I happen to really enjoy both. I Jet Set is stylish but Majora's Mask is also stylish. I'd say the Nintendo of today is their most stylish though, making games like Wooly World.
 

Tain

Member
As someone who generally prefers arcade-structured games over console-structured ones, at least when it comes to 2D action games, I think I'd choose Taito's library over Nintendo's.
 

kubev

Member
Ah, I see what you mean now. It really isn't strictly about style over substance; I'd argue that all three of these have plenty of gameplay, and thus, substance. As a matter of fact, I consider games that get straight into the action to have a much better substance/style ratio that games where you need to go through cutscenes, tutorials, easy stuff... For me arcade games are the pinnacle of substance over style.

I suppose that what I mean is that more of a build-up would hurt the kind of games I like. There's something to be said for games that keep things fresh by continually introducing new things, but I feel like that doesn't necessarily have to come at the expense of your character's capabilities at the beginning of the game.

For example, since I mentioned Jet Set Radio, I'll actually use Sunset Overdrive (since the traversal elements are similar) as a more recent example of a game that - while incredible - really suffers because of the build-up. There are some abilities (such as wall-running) that you have access to, but the game just doesn't mention them until much later. That said, you can still wall-run from the start. You can't, however, air-dash or move on top of water until you reach specific points in the storyline. Someone just kind of tells you that you can do it now. You don't collect these abilities, and they're not really opening up new areas for the most part, so why not give them to the player right from the start? (I do like how the collectibles in Sunset Overdrive encourage you to stumble onto some of the abilities, though.)

Since there's no New Game + option in Sunset Overdrive, starting a new game is a real bummer from a game play perspective, because your mobility is absolutely horrible at the beginning of the game in comparison to your mobility late in the game.

Getting back to the more basic portion of the style over substance argument, though, both Dynamite Cop and Jet Set Radio very clearly emphasize style over game play at certain points, regardless of the depth of the game play. The cameras in those games are specifically designed to accentuate action, and they'll go so far as to shift focus from the player characters entirely in order to do so. It looks really cool, but it arguably really hurts the game play. Still, if you play perfectly, then it makes you feel like such a bad-ass that the negatives are almost completely negated in my mind. I can see it being jarring to some people, though, because it's not good design at all.

On the subject of tutorials, though, I prefer for tutorials to integrate well into the game flow. Take INSIDE, for example. The game tells you NOTHING as far as how to play or how to do certain things, but you're able to feel things out because the level design and other elements gate you in such a way that you have to figure things out in order to progress, and the game rarely (if ever) lets you go backwards to an extent that you're confused as to the boundaries of a specific puzzle.

That game you said didn't age well has amazing substance. Saying Sega games had style over substance is hysterics.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=702187

I bet most of the people who say Sega games were style over substance can't jet rank JSR and can't beat Revenge of Shinobi. Nintendo fans who say Sega lack substance while drooling over F-Zero GX is one of life's funniest jokes. They both have substance but in different ways. I'd argue that Nintendo started to make their games easier and easier by the early 90's to appeal to cast a wider net, but I don't see anything Nintendo making having the nuance of beating Daytona on the hardest difficulty at the arcade back in the day. When Nintendo was neautering their game library with stuff like Wind Waker, Sega was making crazy hard games like Shinobi ps2.

Both companies had substance and style. I happen to really enjoy both. I Jet Set is stylish but Majora's Mask is also stylish. I'd say the Nintendo of today is their most stylish though, making games like Wooly World.

I don't recall saying that Jet Set Radio didn't age well. I don't think its CONTROLS have aged well, but I think the game still holds up really well in a lot of other regards. I do think you're making a lot of assumptions about certain types of people, though. I love Jet Set Radio. That doesn't mean that I have to see past its design flaws. And I never cared much for Revenge of Shinobi, but that has more to do with my expectations from Shinobi games that it does the actual quality of that specific game. (I prefer the Game Gear Shinobi games because of how they're structured.) That said, as I mentioned before, I do prefer a certain level of spectacle in games under some circumstances, and Revenge of Shinobi doesn't do anything for me. Not that the GG Shinobi games do, but they suit me in other ways that make the need for spectacle less-important to me. I can't stress enough that I'm a huge Sega fan, so please don't get the idea that I'm denouncing the games when I say that they lack depth in certain respects. Sega used to be all about the arcade experience, and the best approach to the arcade experience is ensuring that your games are approachable. What I loved about Sega consoles was that they weren't incapable of what you'd see on Nintendo consoles in all cases, but Sega consoles still felt like something entirely different because of the way in which developers (even third parties) catered to that audience.
 

Fularu

Banned
As someone who generally prefers arcade-structured games over console-structured ones, at least when it comes to 2D action games, I think I'd choose Taito's library over Nintendo's.

They really don't overlap at all. They make thoroughly different kind of games. Which is why they were such a good fit for Nintendo's systems.. on Sega's consoles, they were competing with an another Aracde king with a portfollio rather close to theirs (before Sega went full console design with the Megadrive)
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Actually, how many developers and publishers can casual and mainstream consumers even name?

They're probably aware of Nintendo, Ubisoft, EA, Rockstar, Sony, Microsoft, Mojang, Rovio, Riot Games, and maybe Activision as "the Call of Duty people." Go back 20 years and you could replace some of those with Capcom, Sega, and Squaresoft.
 
I find that I actually like G-Darius as a game more than Dariusburst: Chronicle Saviours, mainly because of the background visuals and boss designs. Obviously, DB:CS is a much more modern game than G-Darius which was based on PS1, but I'm really enjoying G-Darius lately, and hope that one day they make another one like that on modern hardware.

Did we post about the Lord's gift to shooters at the same time last night? It is no coincidence. Taito is looking after us. *raises hand to touch God*
 

Fularu

Banned
I find that I actually like G-Darius as a game more than Dariusburst: Chronicle Saviours, mainly because of the background visuals and boss designs. Obviously, DB:CS is a much more modern game than G-Darius which was based on PS1, but I'm really enjoying G-Darius lately, and hope that one day they make another one like that on modern hardware.

I vastly prefer Darius Gaiden to prety much every other entry in the series

Such an amazing game and the Saturn version is soooo goooooood (best home port actually)
 

arttq

Member
When I was a kid, some Taito games had pretty popular home computer ports like Bubble bobble and Arkanoid. They were some of the most played titles back then in my circles. This was in Europe though where home computers were more popular than in the US.

Taito as a name was also pretty amusing to me as a kid because in finnish it is the exact word for "skill".
 
Another game with a lot of style is Metal Black.

https://youtu.be/I7-tEV6c07M?t=8

The entire game is loaded with cool visuals and subtle yet impressive details.

There's this fantastic intro that really sets the tone.
It turns the "save earth from aliens" plot entirely on its ear.

The aliens already won, and they've pretty much destroyed the planet. The remnants of humanity built a prototype ship using the alien's technology, but decided to shelve it and reach a peace agreement instead. The pilot of the prototype ship (aka "Black Fly") is basically going against orders, dooming what's left of mankind.

It's no surprise that some of the first enemies in the game look like jet-fighters. It's whatever's left of the air force trying to stop the pilot from causing humanity to be completely wiped out.

Another cool detail (not shown in the video) is that there's an alternate ending if you run out of lives (and decide not to continue) at the last boss.
 

VariantX

Member
I find that I actually like G-Darius as a game more than Dariusburst: Chronicle Saviours, mainly because of the background visuals and boss designs. Obviously, DB:CS is a much more modern game than G-Darius which was based on PS1, but I'm really enjoying G-Darius lately, and hope that one day they make another one like that on modern hardware.

G-Darius feels like you're experiencing a chain of events going on in the backgrounds that give you a sense of progressing through the enemy lines and the damage they're doing to the worlds that are ravaged by the war. Darius Burst's backgrounds have nowhere near as much stuff going on and they feel like they reverted back to Darius 1 as you don't feel like it matters what route it takes outside of the bosses you'll fight. I almost thought that the first stage of Chronicle saviors was going to evoke some of that feeling but as I saw the footage for levels after that it really just is a bunch of generic levels. They basically traded all the background stuff for having massive waves of enemies coming at you and having 4p local play. Gaiden has probably the most interesting bosses in the series and I feel, the best soundtrack by far of the Darius games. I kind of wish DB:CS would add those bosses as DLC rather than just ships.
 
I don't recall saying that Jet Set Radio didn't age well. I don't think its CONTROLS have aged well, but I think the game still holds up really well in a lot of other regards. I do think you're making a lot of assumptions about certain types of people, though. I love Jet Set Radio. That doesn't mean that I have to see past its design flaws. And I never cared much for Revenge of Shinobi, but that has more to do with my expectations from Shinobi games that it does the actual quality of that specific game. (I prefer the Game Gear Shinobi games because of how they're structured.) That said, as I mentioned before, I do prefer a certain level of spectacle in games under some circumstances, and Revenge of Shinobi doesn't do anything for me. Not that the GG Shinobi games do, but they suit me in other ways that make the need for spectacle less-important to me. I can't stress enough that I'm a huge Sega fan, so please don't get the idea that I'm denouncing the games when I say that they lack depth in certain respects. Sega used to be all about the arcade experience, and the best approach to the arcade experience is ensuring that your games are approachable. What I loved about Sega consoles was that they weren't incapable of what you'd see on Nintendo consoles in all cases, but Sega consoles still felt like something entirely different because of the way in which developers (even third parties) catered to that audience.

You literally said:

Jet Set Radio (which really hasn't aged well, but looks *amazing* when you get into a groove)

So I just went with it and assumed you were going with the "Sega games lack depth" which is very common among pro-Nintendo circles (stuff like Retronauts). My mistake.
 
Darius Burst didn't click with me.

Another game with a lot of style is Metal Black.

https://youtu.be/I7-tEV6c07M?t=8

The entire game is loaded with cool visuals and subtle yet impressive details.

There's this fantastic intro that really sets the tone.
It turns the "save earth from aliens" plot entirely on its ear.

The aliens already won, and they've pretty much destroyed the planet. The remnants of humanity built a prototype ship using the alien's technology, but decided to shelve it and reach a peace agreement instead. The pilot of the prototype ship (aka "Black Fly") is basically going against orders, dooming what's left of mankind.

It's no surprise that some of the first enemies in the game look like jet-fighters. It's whatever's left of the air force trying to stop the pilot from causing humanity to be completely wiped out.

Another cool detail (not shown in the video) is that there's an alternate ending if you run out of lives (and decide not to continue) at the last boss.

Metal Black is so good. The beam level thing is so fun to toy with. Taito was always great at making shooters that have interesting sub systems.
 

kubev

Member
You literally said:

So I just went with it and assumed you were going with the "Sega games lack depth" which is very common among pro-Nintendo circles (stuff like Retronauts). My mistake.

Oh, my apologies. I do mean that solely in the control department, though. I do attribute my love of Sunset Overdrive to my love of Jet Set Radio, as both games share many of the same elements. If anything, Sunset Overdrive makes it evident that Jet Set Radio could be tweaked somewhat to hold up so much better in terms of control.
 

Tain

Member
They really don't overlap at all. They make thoroughly different kind of games. Which is why they were such a good fit for Nintendo's systems.. on Sega's consoles, they were competing with an another Aracde king with a portfollio rather close to theirs (before Sega went full console design with the Megadrive)

I agree, and I would never want to have to choose, that's for sure.
 

stuminus3

Member
As depressing as the realisation of my own age and the fact that a huge chunk of great arcade classics are now forgotten has been, I've gotta thank the OP for getting me in the mood to revisit some of my Taito favourites both old and new... Space Invaders (original, '95, Extreme, Infinity Gene), Elevator Action, Darius, Bubble Bobble, Rainbow Islands, New Zealand Store, Continental Circus, Qix, Operation Wold, Rastan, Liquid Kids, Metal Black, Rayforce, Legend of Kage, Arkanoid, Puzzle Bobble, Groove Coaster... I could go on and on and most of these games are still a lot of fun.

Also FYI

Iconic:

LDFnysp.png


Not iconic:

AIl5dmZ.png
 

petran79

Banned
They are still relevant but only in arcades

021.jpg


For a lot of people arcades were their first entry to video games, so Taito and most arcade developers hold a special place. Personally I revere Taito much more than Nintendo. I wouldnt want Taito to end up like Nintendo, with their games being shadows of their former selves when they switched to 3D. Or completely irrelevant. Same for Capcom and Konami. 90s were the end of an era for many, meaning also that lot of companies had to change their games. The rest stopped producing, changed expertise or shut down.

Bubble Bobble Evolution...I cant even look at it.
ulus-10143-game-ss-2


Cleopatra Fortune and Puchi Charat are also very good Tetris and Arkanoid derivatives.

69298.jpg

gcpcpt2.png

When I was a kid, some Taito games had pretty popular home computer ports like Bubble bobble and Arkanoid. They were some of the most played titles back then in my circles. This was in Europe though where home computers were more popular than in the US.

Taito as a name was also pretty amusing to me as a kid because in finnish it is the exact word for "skill".

Ninja Warriors on the Amiga was amazing. Bubble Bobble, New Zealand Story and Rainbow Islands too.
 

Celine

Member
I dunno, GAF just doesn't seem like the type of enthusiast forum you come to if you're only interested in the here and now of gaming. There are tons of threads here that delve into game history, you would think folks that hang around here a lot would develop a good working familiarity with gaming's past just by being in contact with the place for awhile. It'd be one thing if it were just juniors expressing that "Never heard of them," sentiment in this thread, but there's folks who have been here for years and years saying it, saying they've never heard of Darius or Arkanoid. And yeah, that's pretty shocking.

I think the person that said it's like being on a film enthusiast forum and not knowing who Warner Bros was a bit hyperbolic with throwing out that ubiquitous of an example, but the sentiment's not far off. Maybe more like not knowing about Columbia or MGM. Taito's heyday is gone, but they were a big presence in gaming's formative years. It's not like we're talking about Toaplan or Electro Brain or something, Taito wasn't far removed from the level of Sega and Konami in terms of visibility and output in the 70's/80's/early 90's. And Space Invaders is a massive touchstone in gaming history, right there with Pac-man and Super Mario Bros. That somebody here outright said they'd never heard of that is madness.
There are 178K users (well ok, accounts) registered on GAF.
Some of which have admitted to have never played a Super Mario game.
I don't find surprising some gaffers are oblivious on who Taito was/is (as sad as it sounds).

Of course for the same argument of huge diversity on GAF due to the high number of registrations there are many gaffers which really love '80s/'90s gaming.
As shown in the recent "obscure JRPG" thread there are different levels of knowledge among gaffers.

I wouldnt want Taito to end up like Nintendo, with their games being shadows of their former selves when they switched to 3D. Or completely irrelevant.
*rolleyes*
I can totally understand one prefering Taito over Nintendo, as I've already expressed myself before in the thread Taito made some great games in the '80s and '90s.
I also understand you very well when you say that an era ended roughly at the beginning of '00s but in no way is Taito currently in a better shape than Nintendo.
Nintendo is by far the best company that keep relevant their legacy from the '80s/'90s.
 

petran79

Banned
*rolleyes*
I can totally understand one prefering Taito over Nintendo, as I've already expressed myself before in the thread Taito made some great games in the '80s and '90s.
I also understand you very well when you say that an era ended roughly at the beginning of '00s but in no way is Taito currently in a better shape than Nintendo.
Nintendo is by far the best company that keep relevant their legacy from the '80s/'90s.

Never said Taito was in better shape (though their 10 year old low end arcade hardware are more powerful than Switch)

I just wouldnt want them to turn like Nintendo if they had to change this way, bastardising their franchises
 

Peltz

Member
I've contemplated many many times changing my avatar to represent Taito. I'm a huge fan.

I was thinking of just rocking this:


Or maybe this:


My Xbox 360 avatar is Bub too.

My PSN avatar is Dr. Wily. You can probably discern my taste in games just from that info.
 

AmyS

Member
I vastly prefer Darius Gaiden to prety much every other entry in the series

Such an amazing game and the Saturn version is soooo goooooood (best home port actually)

Did we post about the Lord's gift to shooters at the same time last night? It is no coincidence. Taito is looking after us. *raises hand to touch God*

Hey I love Darius Gaiden as well, it's amazing on Saturn.

My favorite Darius games are

#1: Darius Gaiden
#2: Darius II (Sagaia in NA)
#3: G-Darius
#4 Dariusburst

And this game, Gekirindan, has some really beautiful 2D graphics.

PTY24mX.jpg


 
Top Bottom