• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Yoshi-P thinks in the future (about 10 years from now) there will be no need for platforms as everything will be accessed through the cloud

ShadowLag

Member
There is a lot more power to tap in the cloud than in local hardware that has to have a relatively low manufacturing price so it can be sold to consumers.
True, however it's not really going to enable an obvious jump from something like Mario World -> Mario 64 for example; and some would argue that losing control over the hardware and introducing a level of guaranteed input lag and compressed audio/video would be more of a tech downgrade compared to what they already have. I think cloud is great for productivity purposes but personally I doubt the tech will ever approach local quality.
 
Last edited:

CGNoire

Member
Unless they can Fully Harness and Control Quantum Teleportation the Lag for anyone who doesnt live literally Next Door to one of these Cloud Gaming centers is gonna be shit for thr vast Majority of Genres outside of Turn-Based and Card/Puzzle games.

Dont even get me started on Image Quality.
 

Barakov

Gold Member


Source this interview in Japanese that was posted yesterday:


I've heard that one before.
IZcIjCT.jpg
 

Neofire

Member
He's hoping it does so that the projects he works on dont flop as hard. Everyone knows this dude doesn't like exclusivity and this is his way of indirectly saying it.
 
Multiple problems with this:
  • By the time the technology is good enough and accessible to everyone, the technology will also be good enough to run the games previously thought "impossible" in your own living room, making it useless for everyone but CEOs.
  • Even if that wasn't the case, the only people benefitting from the arrangement is CEOs. Say the wrong thing on social media? Fuck you, your rental to our singleplayer game Final Fantasy XVIII we let you play is revoked. Our servers went down? Fuck you, our game we let you temporarily play is inaccessible. Someone used your account to say such horrible and offensive things like "damn that was retarded bro" in voice chat on our cloud service? Oh well, your account is banned forever. Our company got bought out or has new leadership? ... you get the idea.
  • There's content in a game licensed by BigDickCorporationUniversal Inc. and the license agreement expired? Oops, chunks of content disappear from the game overnight and you can never go back to see it again because the game runs entirely in the cloud and you have no control over what version of the game you're playing.
  • Similar to the previous point, say good-fucking-bye to modding and all forms of user generated content (new maps, etc.), forever.
  • If you think they won't raise the monthly cost steadily over time (to the point where you've eventually paid $120+ to keep playing your $60 game) you're naive.
People really gotta learn to see more than an inch beyond their own noses.
Well said, and this is why I'm never going to be part of any cloud gaming future. It's horse shit designed to make CEOs richer and completely take ownership of games away from gamers. I'll never be a part of this crap. If consoles go the bye I'll just emulate everything on PC. I know the hardcore PC gaming community will never accept this shitty "future of gaming" through the cloud.
 
People arguing about this statement should understand the context Yoshi operates under. His primary game is FFXIV which is an MMO, those games are designed to be played with considerable native lag and the mechanics of play are all designed around the assumption the player has a minimum of ~200 ms delay between trying to do something and the server acknowledging that something happened. In this context, there is no difference between playing on local hardware and playing in the cloud. All MMO's are essentially already cloud games, you only use your local hardware to render the graphics engine, the server controls everything else in FFXIV. You could move FFXIV to a cloud streaming model today and nobody playing it would notice any difference because the game is designed and built around the implications of lag.

So Yoshi's statement is accurate WRT to a game like FFXIV. I doubt anyone's going to be playing Call of Duty from the cloud anytime soon since that game requires things to happen immediately, not ~200 ms later.
 
Last edited:
Wishful thinking 🤔,eventually it may be the way but infrastructure would have to be there to support tens of millions at once. It's not there and not in 10 years.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
There is a lot more power to tap in the cloud than in local hardware
Eh, that power doesn't come magically, if you want half decent cloud power nowadays you gotta pay expensive GeForce Now subscriptions or similar and Microsoft has admitted they will have to increase their subscription prices as they're currently unsustainable too, what company's suddenly gonna offer you so much better than home system power without charging out the wazoo for it and why? The only thing that could really work is some MMORPG that already has a subscription being completely cloud based to offer the same high quality experience to all and even that's not happened (some cloud games on 3DS and Switch the quality is barely better than the systems could handle natively and more like they couldn't bother making a real port so resorted to that and make you unable to play your purchased game as soon as they decide it costs more than it made).

Moving platforms to the cloud, if users yield due to some temporary bonus that is sure to change like initially unsustainable prices, will have much more to do with the control the platform holder can exercise to the end user's behavior and access than offering a model better than home systems can.
 
Last edited:

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Nintendo and Sony when hearing this:

GIF by MOODMAN


Dude should learn how to make RPG elements relevant in a RPG before advising the console leaders on what to do. THAT’S what would make me happy.

50 cent laughing GIF

Completely agree. Why would Nintendo and Sony want to do this?
 

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
You could move FFXIV to a cloud streaming model today and nobody playing it would notice any difference because the game is designed and built around the implications of lag.
I don't think so. Your character still responds to your inputs locale. The server just take its time to process the reactions to your characters actions.
 

Gravemind

Member
I think it will take longer than 10 years, but there will 100% come a point within the next 20-30 years where this will absolutely be reality. People are thinking of gaming in terms of today's technology and underestimating the advancements that will take place in the near future.

If you honestly believe that in 20 years we will still be buying $500 pieces if hardware to download 100gb games, then you're in some serious denial.
 
Last edited:
This ain't it. One fuck up and the Cloud becomes a 🤡. Cloud gaming is too unreliable and it's the next step at not owning shit for good.

Tell Yoshi-P I love his work but this take is trash. Cloud is a good accessory for your gaming needs or when you have fewer options, not the main thing.
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
I think Yoshi-P is correct, but 10years? hmmm I wouldn't have believed him about a week ago, but Xbox already going that way, Playstation leaks show they are heading that way. Nintendo doesn't really talk about it, but I amagine it would take more than 10 years for them to break. I think Nintendo is unique enough to keep going the way they are for least 20.
 

Majukun

Member
That's from August. They're flying off the shelves now.


an influecer tiktok ad campaign does not equal the product been popular, just influencers doing their job.
i'm trying to find any recent sales data that would justify your "flying off the shelf" assessment, but google doesn't seem to help.
 

X-Wing

Member
I think Yoshi-P is correct, but 10years? hmmm I wouldn't have believed him about a week ago, but Xbox already going that way, Playstation leaks show they are heading that way. Nintendo doesn't really talk about it, but I amagine it would take more than 10 years for them to break. I think Nintendo is unique enough to keep going the way they are for least 20.

Nintendo doesn't have infrastructure and would be highly dependent on others to do this, I think they will try to keep things as they are for as long as they can.

PlayStation does have infrastructure and is pushing ahead in terms of tech to the point of being ahead of Xbox in some points, Microsoft has a lot more datacenters and can scale a lot faster than PlayStation though.
 

Fredrik

Member
PlayStation does have infrastructure and is pushing ahead in terms of tech to the point of being ahead of Xbox in some points, Microsoft has a lot more datacenters and can scale a lot faster than PlayStation though.
Microsoft just likes to talk a lot. Stadia had way better streaming quality than XCloud. Sony is now ahead on streaming quality, number of titles on subscription and have a device dedicated for streaming (PS Portal). What’s Microsoft’s advantage?
 

X-Wing

Member
Microsoft just likes to talk a lot. Stadia had way better streaming quality than XCloud. Sony is now ahead on streaming quality, number of titles on subscription and have a device dedicated for streaming (PS Portal). What’s Microsoft’s advantage?
Again, infrastructure. Also Microsoft can reach a lot more devices than PlayStation can at this time.
 

Fredrik

Member
Again, infrastructure. Also Microsoft can reach a lot more devices than PlayStation can at this time.
I don’t see MS doing any better. And their streaming strategy is odd. Like I don’t understand why they stream Xbox versions when they have PC versions day 1 and full controller support. Isn’t Starfield on XCloud using the Series X version. Why? Could have Ultra visuals and 60fps on console through the cloud. What am I missing? 🤨
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
Again, infrastructure. Also Microsoft can reach a lot more devices than PlayStation can at this time.

Their infrastructure will be an advantage for the concept of hybrid computing, which is there in big letters on MS leaks.

They don’t have an infrastructure advantage when it comes to running full games from the cloud, because that needs hardware specifically to run those games. So either they have to produce more Xboxes, or they would have to buy Nvidia/AMD GPUs. There’s no inbuilt advantage.

The only one with an actual advantage is Nvidia, because it’s their own hardware and they are constantly making new GPUs.

You continue to press on this and used a call to authority with your “software background” but you continue to show your ass by not even being able to realize that azure being used to run non gaming software is completely different. Which is why they were investing series X for cloud and that’s already been cut down because Xcloud is going nowhere fast in relation to cost.
 

X-Wing

Member
Their infrastructure will be an advantage for the concept of hybrid computing, which is there in big letters on MS leaks.

They don’t have an infrastructure advantage when it comes to running full games from the cloud, because that needs hardware specifically to run those games. So either they have to produce more Xboxes, or they would have to buy Nvidia/AMD GPUs. There’s no inbuilt advantage.

The only one with an actual advantage is Nvidia, because it’s their own hardware and they are constantly making new GPUs.

You continue to press on this and used a call to authority with your “software background” but you continue to show your ass by not even being able to realize that azure being used to run non gaming software is completely different. Which is why they were investing series X for cloud and that’s already been cut down because Xcloud is going nowhere fast in relation to cost.

I don't know why you are so upset and resorting to personal insult, but Microsoft does have an infrastructure advantage over both Sony and Nintendo, it's quite weird to even suggest the opposite.
And yes Azure data centers tie directly into that advantage, there are already 50 or so datacenters spread throughout the globe which cost several billions in investment that is already made and that the competition doesn't have, these datacenters already exist and can be scaled up if necessary.
xCloud is hosted on these datacenters and Microsoft choses to use xCloud for private gaming consumers because of cost efficiency but this doesn't mean that they don't have other "gaming capable" hardware in their datacenters. As a matter of fact they already provide a large array of GPU (both AMD and NVIDIA) optimized servers that are used for extremely demanding tasks, for instance to train AI models.
And yes, they have to buy that hardware from Nvidia and AMD, I never suggested the opposite.
 
I don't know why you are so upset and resorting to personal insult, but Microsoft does have an infrastructure advantage over both Sony and Nintendo, it's quite weird to even suggest the opposite.
And yes Azure data centers tie directly into that advantage, there are already 50 or so datacenters spread throughout the globe which cost several billions in investment that is already made and that the competition doesn't have, these datacenters already exist and can be scaled up if necessary.
xCloud is hosted on these datacenters and Microsoft choses to use xCloud for private gaming consumers because of cost efficiency but this doesn't mean that they don't have other "gaming capable" hardware in their datacenters. As a matter of fact they already provide a large array of GPU (both AMD and NVIDIA) optimized servers that are used for extremely demanding tasks, for instance to train AI models.
And yes, they have to buy that hardware from Nvidia and AMD, I never suggested the opposite.
did you know that videogames are made using a PC with Windows OS?
 

midnightAI

Member
Again, infrastructure. Also Microsoft can reach a lot more devices than PlayStation can at this time.
You do know Sony uses Microsoft's Azure servers don't you?

(Also, kinda irrelevant,to have zero latency, or near as, requires ISP's to provide that, the data center is only part of the equation. You need several other pieces to be in place to make cloud gaming as good as local play (and that may never happen no matter the time scale))
 
Last edited:

X-Wing

Member
You do know Sony uses Microsoft's Azure servers don't you?

(Also, kinda irrelevant,to have zero latency, or near as, requires ISP's to provide that, the data center is only part of the equation. You need several other pieces to be in place to make cloud gaming as good as local play (and that may never happen no matter the time scale))
As far as I know they use AWS and not Azure. The fact they have to use someone else’s infrastructure isn’t irrelevant when the cloud providers are also their competitors.
 

midnightAI

Member
As far as I know they use AWS and not Azure. The fact they have to use someone else’s infrastructure isn’t irrelevant when the cloud providers are also their competitors.
And MS use parts in their hardware that come from Sony, people have TV's that have parts from Sony. Who they use is irrelevant so long as they provide the infrastructure they need. Or are you saying that Microsoft would not provide the service that Sony requires? Because that is rather silly. That's like saying no PlayStation studio is allowed to use Microsoft Windows PC's.
 

X-Wing

Member
And MS use parts in their hardware that come from Sony, people have TV's that have parts from Sony. Who they use is irrelevant so long as they provide the infrastructure they need. Or are you saying that Microsoft would not provide the service that Sony requires? Because that is rather silly. That's like saying no PlayStation studio is allowed to use Microsoft Windows PC's.
Because renting the infrastructure represents an extra cost that needs to be offset. Either with smaller profit or with a higher price tag on the service that makes it less competitive.
 

SenkiDala

Member
tell yoshi-p they already did that, it was called stadia, it failed miserably
Yeah exactly and it is what most of those exec don't get. And this is why Xbox is doing quite well recently, balancing things quite well. They tried to brute force that shit on the One and they saw it won't work, people are not that dumb, so now they're into the "let different choices" to people, and it might work. You want to play in the cloud ? OK they have xCloud you can use it through a browser, a phone, a TV, whatever, it works well depending on your connexion. You wanna buy the game with a box ? OK do that. You wanna buy it but digitally ? OK you can do this too. You don't wanna pay games 1 by 1 but would rather pay a sub service like Netflix ? This is also possible.

I think in the end, whatever we think of Microsoft, that's the good strategy to have, giving choices to people. Sure if in the future 0,0000001% of people buy games on disc they might stop selling those but otherwise they'll keep giving the choice to people. Fuck I love music but I haven't bought a CD since more than a decade, probably around 15 years ago, but they're still releasing CDs of everything.
 
Last edited:

midnightAI

Member
Because renting the infrastructure represents an extra cost that needs to be offset. Either with smaller profit or with a higher price tag on the service that makes it less competitive.
And that's why there are various tiers for playstation plus, premium etc. it's paid for by the people using it. Could XBox provide it cheaper? Maybe, but it's only in this theoretical world where hardware and software can provide mega low latency cloud gaming and provide it to 100's of millions of people at the same time, globally, no matter the service provider. That's a heck of a lot longer than 10 years away (if possible at all like I said) in my opinion.

Sony and Microsoft have a partnership in regards to Azure services (since 2019?), that's why I said they use Azure. Microsoft and Sony will have many partnerships that benefit both parties.
 
Last edited:

deriks

4-Time GIF/Meme God
That's common sense since Onlive was a thing, man

Not a great scenario thou
 
Last edited:

Kataploom

Gold Member
Like the USA? Because in my third world country I have 700 Mbps fiber with 20~30ms of lag with Geforce Now.
Mostly content availability and quality when kinda available.

I have 900 Mbps in south America and no cloud service near me... I tried control on switch and it's unplayable.

Also not only that, I can't imagine losing in a game because I can't stream it because my country is not priority for whatever service. It also happens a lot to video streaming services that block content in my region due to licensing so I have to pirate it or just forget it exists.
 

Kumomeme

Member
it is highly possible

however i doubt it is gonna be accesible with same level of experience everywhere and it is gonna be one of main gripe.

the requirement of internet speed is high and not all country has the infrastructure and most importantly, the affordability of prices. there is issue of latency which is lot of company strives to fix but i not suprise if this issue gonna end up not be same everywhere especially depend on the server's location vs players. ping probably gonna affected alot despite how cutting edge their solution to the latency issue.

some country probably need more than that for proper infrastructure. based on statisca it took 2030 for 88-95% adoption rate of 5g for big country like america, korean, japan, china etc. for developing country or below than that, it could be longer.

the trend gonna coming but like other streaming services on tv, it not gonna replacing anything. it will end up become another option for users instead.

BUT, im actually sceptical about the 10 years prediction. before everyone including experts and big names said lot of things about Stadia but now look what happened. even other streaming services also not make much impact years after that.
 
Last edited:

SodaZA

Member
Global internet infrastructure isn't capable of handling mass cloud adoption

I will be one day
But 10 years? nah
 

Ozzie666

Member
Good internet is not across the globe, some markets have average or below average speeds and connections. There needs to be a long period of transition for this to even be possible, unless they run the numbers. If you move too quickly you may alienate your customers. I don't see it. I honestly want no part of it.
 
Top Bottom