kazuyamishima
Member
Its 100% true, but only because there hasn’t been stock of the phat PS5 in Japan for the last 2-3 weeks in anticipation of the Slim.
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kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Current stock of the PS5 is almost sold out in Japan because Sony is launching the PS5 Slim….
MasterCornholio
Member
Fredrik
Member
Yeah a whisper silent compact living room Windows Box. Just add Windows and a Big Screen mode and let people use Steam if they want. Isolating Xbox as it’s own thing at this point is dumb when everything is on PC and Steam. Like Starfield is talked about like a Xbox game but I haven’t played a second of it on an actual Xbox console, I don’t even use the Microsoft Store version, I’m playing on Steam. MS need to rip down those last walls that barely stand anyway at this point. Should talk to Valve and combine their efforts and make the ultimate living room PC box.
Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
Microsoft will transition Xbox to a service-only product within 5 years. Phil's gambit failed. Once he abandoned first party, put Xbox exclusives day one on Gamepass, and let their console library run on Windows PC's, it was over.
Don't get me wrong, it suits me because I can play stuff like Starfield on my 4090. But, I stupidly bought an Xbox Series X, and it will be the last piece of Microsoft hardware I will ever own, because there is just no reason for me to buy it now.
Don't get me wrong, it suits me because I can play stuff like Starfield on my 4090. But, I stupidly bought an Xbox Series X, and it will be the last piece of Microsoft hardware I will ever own, because there is just no reason for me to buy it now.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
You have a gross misunderstanding of what branding is.
Can we agree that the phrase is Xbox gamepass? yes? Ok.
Now take Xbox out of that.... does it make any difference whatsoever?
you do not need Xbox for gamepass to succeed or thrive. you do not need an Xbox to play any game that comes from the Xbox studios. At this rate, gamepass is going to become more popular than Xbox. That is brand decimation right in front of your eyes. And there is proof, look at what it's doing to Xbox sales. Or do you think it's a coincidence that Xbox hardware sales have been getting worse every year since Game Pass started? kinda how a lot of people don't know google has a parent. If Google made a phone called the Alphabet One... you think its going to be anywhere near as popular as a pixel?
Mr.Phoenix
Member
thank you!!!!! so happy someone else said this.
I have said it for years... Xbox does not need to exist. It never did. It could just as easily have been called a Microsoft Surface Box. Or surface hub... whatever, it just should never have been it's own separate from Windows thing. It should have been the first proper Windows hardware product. the first Surface.
the fact it does exist just comes off to me as a gross oversight on MS's part. I can't stress this enough, but Steam is living proof that there never needed to be an Xbox. MS should have just made a Windows lite version of their OS. Or a super-focused Windows home edition that would Have been perfect for gaming, video/picture editing and HTPC for the living room/desktop
I think most people forget that an Xbox came into existence over 2 years before Steam started. As far as I am concerned, MS has stupidly been fighting the wrong war for the last 25 years.
Thirty7ven
Banned
That strategy isn’t different from releasing a pro version halfway through a generation. What’s the point of saying it’s a new generation every three to four years if games take between three to six years to make depending on scale.
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I'm just shocked that some ppl think companies will just lose money forever, infinitely because they can afford to.
MS didnt become a 2 trillion+ dollar company by just infinitely throwing away money. Them exiting the smartphone hardware business is one example.
Its probably real.
Just like since 2020....context just flies out the window tho. Remember the articles about Series S outselling the PS5 in [insert region here]? Its always because of low PS5 stock, not a shift in demand.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
Again that strategy would be terrible because of myriads of reasons but first and foremost it stops being a loss leader at any point in its lifecycle, which means console would have to be sold at decent profit day 1. That means a much more expensive console than people are willing to pay for. This would happen because people wouldn’t be locked into the ecosystem that subsidizes the hardware, and most people would probably only buy games from steam.
Talk with Valve and combine their efforts = Xbox becomes a third party publisher at which point it would make no sense not to extend your reach to PlayStation and Switch.
The only thing delaying Xbox from becoming hardware agnostic right now is that they are still holding out hope for PlayStation and Nintendo to allow gamepass on their platforms. The problem is that gamepass is tailor made to cannibalize software sales and both PlayStation and Nintendo have no interest in destroying that market.
Flutta
Banned
I don’t think they understand Xbox situation period. This is how delusional their fanbase really is. It’s mind boggling…
Killjoy-NL
Member
GamePass will be the downfall of Xbox.I dont get the gamepass poisoned the brand claim. The only people I have ever seen complain about gamepass, or have a negative disposition to it, have been on GAF. Would you share what you mean so that I may understand this perspective?
Edit:demigod I don't want you to miss this one.
The only reason MS can somewhat afford to have big titles on GamePass, while at the same time have a relatively low entry cost for subs, is because Xbox marketshare is a joke, so they won't have to spend too much to cover the loss of revenue for publishers on Xbox.
Aren't most of the GamePass subs on Xbox?
With 22M Series sold, GamePass won't go anywhere. Clearly on PC GamePass isn't doing all that much and if MS wants to expand on PlayStation for example, imagine the kind of money they'd have to spend to get major titles on GamePass to cover loss of revenue for publishers on Playstation.
At the same time, GamePass is making Xbox as a console brand obsolete.
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nowhat
Member
People stopped publishing apps for Windows Phone, because people stopped buying WP phones, and that's because Microsoft (intentionally or not) totally sabotaged their own platform. It was supposed to be available for third parties to license like Android, but MS gave preferential treatment to their own (or Nokia's, rather) devices. But much worse was that each version of WP was tied to a particular chipset. You want the latest OS? Well great, buy a new phone! It was an insane strategy (apparently the last versions of WP were very nice, but few ever got to experience them), I wonder who was behind it.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
That's why I said their Xbox Game Studios publisher business and not Xbox as a platform.
Also, Tod is a senior game producer at Bethesda. He doesn't lead Zenimax.
YeulEmeralda
Member
GTA4 dlc was an Xbox exclusive for a while if memory serves.
YeulEmeralda
Member
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
Sony is doomed and Playstation is dying /s
On a serious note, this is the last generation we will see a traditional Xbox console. The Xbox Series consoles are total failures this gen for MS. Going forward they can't come in with the same console strategy next gen.
On a serious note, this is the last generation we will see a traditional Xbox console. The Xbox Series consoles are total failures this gen for MS. Going forward they can't come in with the same console strategy next gen.
SimTourist
Member
It really feels like Xbox is close to it's end as a brand. At this point it makes sense to make all their games available on PS/Nintendo. Budgets are only getting higher and they're not gonna see a return from Xbox + PC alone. Easy example from myself, I used to buy premium 100$ editions of Forza, now they only got 10 bucks for Gamepass from me and that 10$ is spread across hundreds of games, so really I got forza for pennies. It's great for me, but they're not seeing much money from me compared to before.
laynelane
Member
Agreed on this. There's a lot of subjectivity and personal wishes in takes like that, I think. Although, given the amount they're spending and what they're spending on, I don't necessarily see MS leaving the gaming sector if things don't improve for them - more like a change-up in strategy may become necessary sooner or later.
StealthGoblin
Banned
There are already more subs than Series consoles out there so you are right. Gamepass is now a bigger 'name' and will grow faster.
Fredrik
Member
So? How is that a terrible thing? It’s going to happen sooner or later anyway. Why drag it out? Next gen they’ll sell less than this. 100% sure about this. For a while they can try using Gamepass and cloud and PC in the PR to claim the platform is growing, like they do in Japan. But I give them one more generation until it’ll be all about launchers. And if there is a Playstation console and Sony still don’t do hardware agnostic launchers then there will be a Xbox launcher for Playstation.
*putting the crystal ball back under cover*
MiguelItUp
Member
It's not too surprising for Sony, they had some great exclusives get dropped this year, Switch as well. I don't think Xbox had enough to really push them upward unfortunately, hopefully that will change though. I'd love to see all three continue to be in a very healthy and competitive space.
MarkMe2525
Member
Correlation does not equal causation. What also happened right before Gamepass was MS's initiative to bring every MS 1st party game to PC. This is the reason you see hardware sales drop off, it's because you no longer need an Xbox to play Xbox games. Idk, this is obvious and you can even have a "gross misunderstanding of branding" to draw the correct conclusion.
It is silly to claim that the existence of gamepass in itself is lowering hardware sales. I certainly think the forest is being missed through the trees with this view, at least you attempted to actually address the question.
Alcibiades
Member
I partially blame the dumb and confusing name.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
gamepass is not the ONLY reason sales have declined, but its safe to say its more than 70% of the reason, being that gamepass is the main benefactor of the Xbox's demise.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
"Shipments"
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YeulEmeralda
Member
They put an Xbox app in Windows which is on a billion PCs.
StealthGoblin
Banned
There is a difference between choice and forced.
More people have chosen to buy gamepass than Xbox hardware. Having an app forced on you isn't the same.
Gamepass is getting bigger and bigger than Xbox. At this point it's definitely the bigger platform and it's certainly got more goodwill than Xbox as a whole.
MarkMe2525
Member
Wait.. so the console hardware sales decline is 30% the fault of not needing an Xbox to play Xbox games, and 70% of the decline is because of an optional subscription service. Yeah, that's a reasonable position to have
Papa_Wisdom
Member
I can’t understand people hoping for the demise of Xbox as a competitor in the gaming landscape. I mean I understand people’s feeling when it comes to Microsoft throwing there money about recently with the acquisitions etc but for years before that we had people saying that to be more competitive that’s what they needed to do.
Surely more competition within any given market makes its better for us the customer (I hate and never use the term consumer).
When companies strive for not us, but our money and time it incentives them to look at what the markets and competition is doing and atleast try to match if not beat them in terms of what they offer.
I personally would not like to see what the gaming landscape would look like (in the console space anyway) with only dominant player. Whether that be Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo. We’ve seen all 3 become greedy and take advantage of their position when they have been on top.
Surely more competition within any given market makes its better for us the customer (I hate and never use the term consumer).
When companies strive for not us, but our money and time it incentives them to look at what the markets and competition is doing and atleast try to match if not beat them in terms of what they offer.
I personally would not like to see what the gaming landscape would look like (in the console space anyway) with only dominant player. Whether that be Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo. We’ve seen all 3 become greedy and take advantage of their position when they have been on top.
Woopah
Member
Im not sure I understand your point. Why would someone who wanted to get an Xbox choose to not do so because an optional service exists?
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
DeepSpace5D
Member
Oh for sure, I remember that. The Xbox 360 was my main gaming console at the time. But I think the context of the situation is a little different now.
If I remember correctly, the 360 was the console market leader at the time. But since that gen, in the next one with PS4/Xbox One and now this current gen PlayStation has taken back the market lead quite dominantly and they have had the marketing rights with Rockstar and GTA since then.
And there’s also the fact that MS hadn’t spent $70 billion in acquisitions for the 360 shortly before GTAIV came out.
demigod
Member
How is it better for us as consumers when ms buys up 3rd party publishers and takes away games from PlayStation?
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Papa_Wisdom
Member
In the same way Sony buys exclusives and keeps them off Xbox, that’s what competition is.
And what has been part of the gaming landscape since it began.
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demigod
Member
Stop acting like ms never buy exclusives. They did in the 360 era and last gen. They don’t have leverage this gen unless they want to pony up 200+ mil.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Sony buys exclusives and keeps them off of Xbox. mostly temporarily and once the period is done they can publish wherever
Microsoft buys publishers and hogs them to themselves like greedy selfish children, only handing games over when the CMA tells them to
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Papa_Wisdom
Member
I never suggested they didn’t, I’ve already stated the buying of exclusively has been part and parcel of gaming since it’s inception. If I wanted to play certain games I had to buy a specific box to play them, I bought a PlayStation to play resident evil 2 and tomb raider 2 because they weren’t released on the sega Saturn. I had no problems doing it then and I have no problems doing it now?
Papa_Wisdom
Member
Then buy an Xbox, I don’t see what the massive deal is, as I stated above I bought a PlayStation to play tomb raider 2 and resident evil 2 as they didn’t come out on Saturn? What’s the big deal?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
You are comparing a few games to the biggest multiplatform third party publishers being restricted to a platform whose owner has the kind of well known goal to content starve the competition.
I hope you are not trying to go for a Pro Competition - Pro Consumer angle here
.
Papa_Wisdom
Member
I spend my money and time where it benefits me as a customer, if things change and I don’t like what they offer me I spend my money elsewhere.You are comparing a few games to the biggest multiplatform third party publishers being restricted to a platform whose owner has the kind of well known goal to content starve the competition.
I hope you are not trying to go for a Pro Competition - Pro Consumer angle here
I like bmw, was looking to get one last year, was prepared to spend money to buy one, saw that they wanted to charge people a subscription for heated seats, decided that wasn’t something I was prerpared to do. Spent my money elsewhere.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I am sure we can also open a parenthesis on the price of fish in Tokyo, it belongs in this conversation pretty much the same way platitudes aside…
If BMW started buying most of the biggest car tech suppliers I would have a problem too as after a while you would not have other cars to buy.
Papa_Wisdom
Member
And I’d agree but it works exactly the same way, if I don’t like what one gaming company offers I go elsewhere. I don’t care about which company is bigger or owns the most, why would I? Along as It benefits me I couldn’t give a crap which company it is. That’s the good thing about competition, there’s always alternatives.
demigod
Member
Competition is lost with this one fellas.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
This is between the willfully naive and the simple naive. You are avoiding the point by multiple people so I tend to go with the former now.
You should give a crap about what these massive corporations do as the “let’s outspend the competition” scorched earth approach will leave you worse off and without competition in the long term. But then if you have MS stocks or are carrying water for them you may either not care or just be unwilling to look under that rock… hypothetically speaking of course
.
Papa_Wisdom
Member
Then we can agree to disagree, we’re talking about plastic toys at the end of the day, of gaming ceased to exist tomorrow the world wouldn’t end.This is between the willfully naive and the simple naive. You are avoiding the point by multiple people so I tend to go with the former now.
You should give a crap about what these massive corporations do as the “let’s outspend the competition” scorched earth approach will leave you worse off and without competition in the long term. But then if you have MS stocks or are carrying water for them you may either not care or just be unwilling to look under that rock… hypothetically speaking of course
Papa_Wisdom
Member
Keep fighting the good fight, friend.
Felessan
Member
It's not silly. Gamepass push for the lowest common denominator - being perceived cheap.
Even with same-for-same player engagement and revenue it hurts in the long term because relative cost becomes very big - you pay 15$ for a lot of games and you have to pay 300-500 for hardware - 20-33 time more. Compared to PS where you pay 70$ for a single game to play on 400-500$ machine - the ratio is 6-7 - much more reasonable. Humans do think in relative terms in the end and quite bad at present value of money (accounting total future payments into today).
This leads to consumers having gamepass to not actually buy a console - it perceived to be too costly and opt out to something with zero cost - like pc/notebook they already own.
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