DryEyeRelief
Member
That would totally make sense if Alan didn't shit on street fighter to make his point.
Scenes like VF and KOF stay niche because of the same elitism crap.
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Fighting Games Weekly | July 14-20 | Bracket Resets Full of Tears (of Joy?)
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
That would totally make sense if Alan didn't shit on street fighter to make his point.
Scenes like VF and KOF stay niche because of the same elitism crap.
I listened to what he said and you pretty much had to reach to get to the conclusion you got to.
At the end of the day I'm going to do me and play the games I care about but I don't think it's wise to have that attitude at all. It's defeatist and it's also elitist. I don't really care though.
The VF comm is pretty welcoming. A few elitists, but they get drowned out. It's nothing like the anime community.
vas_a_morir
Banned
I am going to play Anime. Just you wait. Blaz Blue all of a sudden blowing up.
I used to be like that. I saw the Blazblue sale and was like, maybe- then realized "I'm not going to play that".
I'll probably still get Persona because I like that game more. I just don't like BB, Melty, or GG the same way I just don't like Marvel.
He's just living up to his handle man.
toddhunter
Member
This is true.
I'd actually be pretty keen to see how P4A2's version ends up. It sounds even better with the familiar locations.
Smooth Operator
Member
http://www.twitch.tv/dreamhackfighters
Dreamhack just started : Louffy vs Irritated money match right now
Dreamhack just started : Louffy vs Irritated money match right now
Triple Da G.O.D!
Member
Everybody always was. You just had to show proof otherwise.
Can't blame them, there's like at least two new anime games/updates every year, so spoiled... They'd never know what it's like to play the same game for 10 years. ;__;
That's rerere. It's special, but you can poke with it sometimes since goes practically god damn full screen and gives high reward on hit.
I'm in the process of learning guilty for the first time with Xrd now and using Faust myself. It's actually not that hard to get into! There's a ton of info on older versions of guilty out there which is still really helpful for learning Xrd. We should share notes, haha.
but lots of VFDC got behind Ultra. VF is niche because people don't like VF.
They do, that's why anime games never sustain themselves for more than a year and why theres always talk of supporting more than one game.
Kalamari
Member
I really like the lobbies too. The only thing I would add is some kind of way to spectate matches.
Considering maybe looking at Timothy on the character select screen maybe because of this.
Some of them are Mexican
Vigilant Gambit
Member
I tried to find a VF match online last night again, with the advice of setting matchmaking to Worldwide. Only found one other dude, and it was in ranked.
He promptly owned me up with Pai. After another search, he was still the only one around, so I challenged him again.
He booted me.
Triple Da G.O.D!
Member
You can only make an initial claim like that if they blurt out they play KoF.
Baleoce
Member
Just wondering everyone's opinions on fightpads.
In particular, the madcatz fightpad series, vs classics such as the sega saturn controller, or a mega drive II 6 button controller.
I imagine the latter examples are harder to find reliable and low latency converters for? But I suppose what i'm wondering about the most is the madcatz build quality of the d-pad and face buttons compared to the sega controllers. Perhaps there's another 6 face button solution I've not heard of as well.
In particular, the madcatz fightpad series, vs classics such as the sega saturn controller, or a mega drive II 6 button controller.
I imagine the latter examples are harder to find reliable and low latency converters for? But I suppose what i'm wondering about the most is the madcatz build quality of the d-pad and face buttons compared to the sega controllers. Perhaps there's another 6 face button solution I've not heard of as well.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
eeeeeeeeh I think every community has welcoming and helpful members.
I think most players are willing to help new players that are actually trying to learn. That do their homework and ask specific questions, or ask for resources to help them find their own answers. At least that's been my experience
When I see negative reactions, it's in response to lazy and bad questions. The one that Stickbug was making fun of in particular last night was how frequently he's seen "what character do I play???" post EVO
I mean I'm all for being encouraging new people and what not, but I can understand why skilled players would question the commitment of a batch of players when so many of them seemingly can't even pick their own character at the select screen
Vigilant Gambit
Member
Snake eyez uses a mad catz fightpad. Seems to have done well enough for him.
CommandThrower
Member
I think in VF's case, reaching out to their community is the best way to go about getting matches. I know that sounds incredibly obvious, but I've also had your experience of getting booted from matches before they start because of my low rank, sometimes a lot of times in a row.
Let me ask you a question. This will sound incredibly pompous, but I assure you I don't mean it to be like that. Anyhow, do you believe that the folks who enjoy VF the most are folks who have passion for fighting games? By that, I mean folks who actively take the time to play and learn the mechanics of lots of different fighters, and play the game regardless of respective scene, look and reputation.
Again, not trying to come off as pompous, but this is a train of thought that runs through my head a lot sometimes.
I remember on twitter when Justin Wong and PR Rog had a passing interests in play BlazBlue for a hot minute and they were asking whic character should they play. A lot of the anime top players threw answers at them telling then that they should play a b and c for x y an z reasons. Of course these guys never picked up the game seriously but for them asking who to play didn't result in ire from the anime community. They did their part and now it's up to justin and pr rog to actually press buttons
djplaeskool
Member
Da Beech is live
http://www.twitch.tv/8wayrun
http://www.twitch.tv/8wayrun
Honestly, I can see why people would have a problem with something like this in BlazBlue going in blind, where some of the character functions are rather unintuitive. That and no one wants to be the sucker who thinks playing a character like Makoto is a good idea, only to end up with despair. Granted, some research would answer a lot of those questions, but I do think a lot of the interest from most of these new players is rather transient. However, that question is best answered by someone who knows how that specific player plays -- asking some e-sports superstar on the Internet that doesn't know anything about you isn't going to do anyone much good.
oh this is gonna be precious.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
By itself, not really.
Any question that requires further questions from the person asked in order for them to accurately answer it is not really a good question.
This is a good example of why the question is lazy and dumb
New player goes on internet and types one sentence. Top player/s type out paragraphs detailing a bunch of characters and why they are good choices
New player doesn't pick up game
Can you imagine doing this for everyone who asked? For every anonymous player who isn't Justin/PRRog(people who have proven to be able to commit to fighting games....and still don't stick with it)
I think there's a difference between being helpful to new players, and being a 24/7 customer service help line for people who are too lazy to read the FAQ first.(there is a thread on dustloop that exists solely to curb how frequently threads are made for this question)
Parallax Scroll
Banned
maybe this is the year for vxg that everything will go smoothly
SloaneRisette
Member
What if you're like me and you don't know? I don't have a preference for rushdown or lame/turtling, and I basically stumbled upon Cap by accident (at this point, I literally don't remember why I picked him up/tried him out, but I ended up sticking with him). With SF4 for a long time I didn't know which character to pick up (played Honda for a while because Mike Ross played him, then tried Fei Long because he was top tier) and only ended up settling on Cody for a while because he was, to me, a "basic" character.
Some players may like aesthetics of certain characters, but when they actually pick up those characters they may not like how they play. I played P4AU at Evo for two matches and tried out Rise Kujikawa (because she's my favorite P4 character) and luckily I actually liked how she played, and the same thing happened with Akihiko in P4A vanilla, but that might not apply to a lot of people, especially newer people to the genre.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
1. Watch match videos. See who looks fun/interesting to you for any reason. There's no bad reason to like a character in a fighting game
2. Research those characters. Look up movelists and combos to see if they do stuff you're interested in doing
3. Play with those characters. Press buttons, do their moves, try combos. See if you like using them
Only then should you be asking any questions based on your experience through that process. If you're not serious enough to do that much on your own I don't think there's anything elitist about people not being willing to do that work for you.(walking you through the mental process of deciding who the hell is fun for you)
Parallax Scroll
Banned
only one man can save emp now
DryEyeRelief
Member
I see what you mean and now I can see why someone like st1ckbug would be frustrated with this sort of question by now having been getting this question for years and getting the same results on top of it.
Sure, play Cozby in 3S, masang or soakrates in SC, or Fuudo/ItaZan in SFIV. I picked VF up after playing Capcom for years, and there's some runoff with the DoA community as well
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Did anyone else check out that Bum stream last night? They were at their new venue. Looked pretty nice.
I dont agree with this. I need to research for hours on end to find out which character I should play before actually playing the game? That's a very unrealistic viewpoint that only a very small minority of players will actually do. Every game has a few chracters that are easy for beginners to pick up. It doesnt take much effort for a community to point those characters out(Ragna/Jin in BBCP for example). Sure those things should be done if you want to go beyond the basic characters, but it really doesnt take much effort for people within the community to give a recommendation based on how the player in question likes to play. Not doing so just reeks of elitism to me. Something that I feel that the FGC in general(particularly SF) have big problems with. No one likes helping newcomers in general. For what reason? I still don't know to this day.
I sympathize a bit with the people asking that question however especially considering the game in question. I think I played every BlazBlue version and I haven't found a character that I like to play yet. Originally I wanted to play Taokaka since calamity trigger because I really like characters with a lot of movemt options and are generally fun to control. Once I picked her up I realized I just didn't have the hands for her. Came to ragna because I like jack of all trades characters too and didn't really like him. Went to Tsubaki for the same reason and while I liked her people kept telling me she was weak and that I should find someone better. I can go on but I think a game like BlazBlue probably needs for the new player and the top player to meet each othe half way.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
not the guy with the big glasses cause he looks dumb
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
That's fighting games man. If you don't have the dedication to do that much you probably don't have the dedication to be good at them. That's just the reality of the games. Only a very small minority of people will ever be good at them because of how much work it takes. I mean I don't think what I described is even that much work.
but I think the thing alot of people don't realize is that you don't have to be good at fighting games to enjoy them. If you just want to play casually and have fun without spending time doing research and practice, the games are designed to accommodate those type of players now more than ever.
If you're that type of player though, you probably don't need to be bothering top players on twitter about character choice. Just go have fun and don't worry about the high level if you know you don't have the interest in putting in the work to get there.
If you want to be good though, I think what I described is the bare minimum required to get started. Research and practice are 100% part of the package of being good at fighting games. I don't understand why so many people on here in particular are so adamant about shielding new players from that reality starting out.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I typically mute most Anime Streams unless say Dacid or Brett is commentating something.
Also yes don't take what some people in that community say seriously and too heart. There is a reason they constantly eat themselves from the inside out. The community growing is a good thing, the new anime games coming out is fine and all but none of them will play even close to the way BB plays. So if people like that style they should stick with it.
As far as people spending hours studying a character to see what they want to use. Due to the way the dirves work in BB I'd say at least doing a few trials to see if you like the characters mechnics is a good start. Of course if you have access to forums ask and anyone not giving advice towards new players on help getting a starter character for them or brushing off said player is a complete fuckwad.
BB though is a VERY character specialist game, the reason people say to spend a bit of time to find who you think fits you best because just about every character can put up a fight vs every character but there is a lot of shit to all the match ups you need to learn. That is the reason most of the top players stick with their one character all the way and despite some being considered bad or shitty they still go extremely far. In BB every character has a top player who's name is tied to them and all of theme are pretty sucessful across the board. Maybe not all pulling out big major wins all the time, but their records are solid.
A lot of new players in any game want what's fun right away or the fastest way to win. Sure some characters in BB fit that criteria but at the same time those characters might not mesh well with how the person likes to play and tackle things. Which in the long road leads to people not enjoying the game and quitting. Which is why I also think it's important to help steer new players towards a character that might fit them better.
I give Karst a hard time about waiting for a character he likes, but honestly that's just me goofing around it's not a bad thing if none of the characters he has seen doesn't interest him, why waste time and effort? If you are not enjoying yourself and you are just playing something to try and get quick wins. You'll never get better and you'll never have fun.
tl;dr BB is hard to get into partially because people in the community have a we are better than you are mentality, the community needs to be more welcoming to new players and help them find their character match if they can.
Also yes don't take what some people in that community say seriously and too heart. There is a reason they constantly eat themselves from the inside out. The community growing is a good thing, the new anime games coming out is fine and all but none of them will play even close to the way BB plays. So if people like that style they should stick with it.
As far as people spending hours studying a character to see what they want to use. Due to the way the dirves work in BB I'd say at least doing a few trials to see if you like the characters mechnics is a good start. Of course if you have access to forums ask and anyone not giving advice towards new players on help getting a starter character for them or brushing off said player is a complete fuckwad.
BB though is a VERY character specialist game, the reason people say to spend a bit of time to find who you think fits you best because just about every character can put up a fight vs every character but there is a lot of shit to all the match ups you need to learn. That is the reason most of the top players stick with their one character all the way and despite some being considered bad or shitty they still go extremely far. In BB every character has a top player who's name is tied to them and all of theme are pretty sucessful across the board. Maybe not all pulling out big major wins all the time, but their records are solid.
A lot of new players in any game want what's fun right away or the fastest way to win. Sure some characters in BB fit that criteria but at the same time those characters might not mesh well with how the person likes to play and tackle things. Which in the long road leads to people not enjoying the game and quitting. Which is why I also think it's important to help steer new players towards a character that might fit them better.
I give Karst a hard time about waiting for a character he likes, but honestly that's just me goofing around it's not a bad thing if none of the characters he has seen doesn't interest him, why waste time and effort? If you are not enjoying yourself and you are just playing something to try and get quick wins. You'll never get better and you'll never have fun.
tl;dr BB is hard to get into partially because people in the community have a we are better than you are mentality, the community needs to be more welcoming to new players and help them find their character match if they can.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
BBCSEX was shit, P4A is still played, GG is still played but lack of online and shit netcode on the current version hurt it.
I think we'll know that fighting games have gone full e-sports when people can produce content (like articles and videos) for a living about the game, like the way many top (ad not-so-top) LoL and Dota 2 players do. It's a two sided problem: there's not enough material produced for people learning the game, and the content that is produced is not easily digested. Stuff like Arturo's match analysis videos or Aris' character guides are great resources, but at between 2-4 hours only the most dedicated are going to go through all of it. I think good editing would help, but that means it's going to take more time to produce said content.
Yeah it's all about the planning and the approach. Most of these videos are just guys sitting down just talking from off the top of their heads so it's no surprised that their vids are super long.