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[Zee-Row]

I always wondered , does Ranma 1/2 count as child porn since they show a lot of 16 year old boobies?

 

[ponpo]

As part of the grooming process, pedophiles have been known to start children on child pornography, to show them that other children do this and attempt to convince them it's okay. It's not an issue of winging a book at a kid from your pedo van, since that's not usually how child molestation occurs, instead think of your creepy uncle, showing you cartoons of kids having sex, and then suggesting you do likewise.

Ah I see.

 

[The Technomancer]

It's not an issue of winging a book at a kid from your pedo van

I shouldn't laugh but I am

 

[The Technomancer]

I always wondered , does Ranma 1/2 count as child porn since they show a lot of 16 year old boobies?

There is a very interesting conversation to be had around Ranma 1/2 and the ways in which it is or maybe isn't like other media we find more troubling...that this thread probably can't support

 

[Silver Arrows]

I shouldn't laugh but I am

Likewise, now I feel terrible.

 

[rhandino]

Is this the end of third party Vita support?

There is a very interesting conversation to be had around Ranma 1/2 and the ways in which it is or maybe isn't like other media we find more troubling...that this thread probably can't support

I always felt that Ranma 1/2 was very whimsical about it and there is not some of the heavy connotations that more recent brands of anime has.

 

[stump sock]

It largely comes down to the local and state laws because of the Supreme Court ruling.

For example in 2012 someone with only animated child pornography was found guilty in Missouri because it lacked any value under obscenity laws. Meanwhile in 2011 someone in the exact same scenario was quickly dismissed of all charges under Maine law.

gotcha, the pieces are coming together now. kind of an interesting chain of events from a legal standpoint.

 

[thelatestmodel]

Is this the end of third party Vita support?

Superb. LOL

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

How is "extreme child porn manga" defined in this?

Under 16 is CP, I thought...

No one does. Hence, facefucking porn being declared illegal as recently as 2006.

What? Do I want to know?

I always wondered , does Ranma 1/2 count as child porn since they show a lot of 16 year old boobies?

Possibly? Never read that so I can't comment. Curious about the answer.

 

[Yarbskoo]

As part of the grooming process, pedophiles have been known to start children on child pornography, to show them that other children do this and attempt to convince them it's okay. It's not an issue of winging a book at a kid from your pedo van, since that's not usually how child molestation occurs, instead think of your creepy uncle, showing you cartoons of kids having sex, and then suggesting you do likewise.

This is the weirdest shit.

 

[Darksol]

Manga isn't hurting anyone. And anyone who wants to use the argument that people will read a perverted manga that depicts illegal activites and then somehow be forced to act on it are using the same lack of critical thinking as people who blame Marilyn Manson or GTA after a kid shoots up a school and they find out they were a fan.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I always wondered , does Ranma 1/2 count as child porn since they show a lot of 16 year old boobies?

Ranma isn't sexualized in the slightest. It's just a dude magically turned girl with his tits hanging out.

To Love Ru Darkness is a better example.

 

[Linkyn]

As part of the grooming process, pedophiles have been known to start children on child pornography, to show them that other children do this and attempt to convince them it's okay. It's not an issue of winging a book at a kid from your pedo van, since that's not usually how child molestation occurs, instead think of your creepy uncle, showing you cartoons of kids having sex, and then suggesting you do likewise.

Makes you shudder.

I always wondered , does Ranma 1/2 count as child porn since they show a lot of 16 year old boobies?

Probably a question of age of consent. 16 isn't an issue legally in many countries. That aside, I always thought it was more about blatantly child-like characters, whereas most teenagers or young adults look much older than they actually are in anime. In a sense, you could look at it as the inverse of the "1000-year old dragon"-argument In that it doesn't really matter how old the character is, so long as it looks adult.

Edit: Also, nudity aside, Ranma 1/2 is absolutely harmless. Hell, they showed it on a children's program in the afternoon when I was growing up.

 

[Dai101]

How is "extreme child porn manga" defined in this?

its awwwright

 

[Hackworth]

while books and videos of real children in sexually provocative poses are still widely available—and legal.

wait what

It's not an issue of winging a book at a kid from your pedo van

Probably going to hell for laughing at this

 

[Zee-Row]

Ranma isn't sexualized in the slightest. It's just a dude magically turned girl with his tits hanging out.

To Love Ru Darkness is a better example.

Happosai likes to touch without asking though.

 

[RandomExpletive]

Is this the end of third party Vita support?

while books and videos of real children in sexually provocative poses are still widely available—and legal.

This is... confusing... I guess thats not technically classified as CP?

 

[oti]

Is this the end of third party Vita support?

Bruh

 

[stump sock]

Under 16 is CP, I thought...

18 in Japan.

people like to point out the national age of consent being 13, but that's overridden on a prefectural level, and those vary between 16 and 18. but the porn is cut off at 18.

 

[jabuseika]

-

 

[Thaedolus]

Nudity in Ranma is at least 99% slapstick humor, not sexual. It doesn't deserve to be lumped in with some of this bullshit

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

I'm conflicted, honestly. On one hand. it is just drawings and fiction. So making such things illegal feels to me like thought policing, and then there's a thing known as artistic freedom and creative rights... On the other hand, this:

As part of the grooming process, pedophiles have been known to start children on child pornography, to show them that other children do this and attempt to convince them it's okay. It's not an issue of winging a book at a kid from your pedo van, since that's not usually how child molestation occurs, instead think of your creepy uncle, showing you cartoons of kids having sex, and then suggesting you do likewise.

.. is a real thing that I know from experience. Cartoons are much more easier to get a kid's attention and convey this kind of information. I thought that what my rapist was doing to me was okay because of it, even though it hurt and I hated it.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

wait what

The child idol market is gross as fuck. I'm surprised that there have been more attempts to drop the hammer on drawings than that stuff.

 

[rhandino]

This is... confusing... I guess thats not technically classified as CP?

wait what

Must be about some of the lest savory aspect of some idols groups and the videos and magazine shoots they sometimes do...

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

You see, its ok to defend violence in video games.

But sex in entertainment? Nope.

Spoiler

/s

Criminalize the artist, criminalize the imagination.

When do we start putting people in jail for thought crimes?

CISA passed Senate so... Soon? Screw the NSA.

18 in Japan.

people like to point out the national age of consent being 13, but that's overridden on a prefectural level, and those vary between 16 and 18. but the porn is cut off at 18.

Interesting. I assume that's meant for both drawn and real?

 

[Nickle]

I think lolicon is one of the worst and most disturbing parts of the anime/manga community (among many terrible parts), but I don't think it should be banned. I don't want to look at that shit, but some other people do. Unlike real CP, it's not hurting any actual children, so criminalizing lolis would just make this a victimless crime.

 

[Linkyn]

Happosai likes to touch without asking though.

True, but the show makes it abundantly clear that nobody thinks his behaviour is okay. Also, doesn't he get his ass kicked fairly regularly for it?

 

[stump sock]

Must be about some of the lest savory aspect of some idols groups and the videos and magazine shoots they sometimes do...

basically, except that the line between "idol groups" and "idol groups that do icky gravure" is usually pretty well defined. the overwhelming majority are the former, the latter definitely know what they're doing and what audience they're courting. decent rule of thumb is that if the music is at all worth listening to, they're probably not doing gross shit.

Interesting. I assume that's meant for both drawn and real?

nah, the whole point of the thread/article is that that law doesn't even apply to drawn stuff.

 

[Extra Sauce]

Is this the end of third party Vita support?

Perfect.

 

[MrSaturn99]

I'd be all for it, although obviously real child pornography should take priority.

It is. The extent to which it is, is still in dispute, with the Mayo Clinic suggesting somewhere between 30%-80%. Part of the issue with researching pedophilia/child molestation is that the majority of subjects we have to question are/or have been in the criminal system. So selection bias is inevitable in the studies.

Here's an interesting paper, that has links to a fair amount of the research, concerning the same issue when it was dealt with in the U.S., while Ashcroft was running Justice:
http://scholarship.shu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1040&context=student_scholarship

Basically, the arguments come down to 1) child pornography doesn't inhibit and may exacerbate a pedophile's need to molest and 2) child pornography(drawn and real) is used by pedophiles to draw in children for predation.

You may not agree with those, of course, but there is some available science to suggest the first, and the second is undeniable, as we have multiple records of child molestors using child pornography to attract children.

Bans like these are tricky, because you get over eager enforcement causing problems, and creatives who want to push the envelope, so court cases tend to come hot and heavy for a few years, before they settle down and people accept the new standard. It's not like Japan doesn't have a history of this, and dealing with evolving standards of obscenity. They already have laws about mosaics and what you can and can't show legally. This would be an extension of those existing laws.

That's incredibly fascinating, thank you.

 

[Silver Arrows]

basically, except that the line between "idol groups" and "idol groups that do icky gravure" is usually pretty well defined. the overwhelming majority are the former, the latter definitely know what they're doing and what audience they're courting. decent rule of thumb is that if the music is at all worth listening to, they're probably not doing gross shit.

If only Korean pop was like that..unfortunately, even now that line between 'idol group' and 'hypersexualized idol group' is too blurry to make a call.

 

[The Technomancer]

Happosai likes to touch without asking though.

Happosai is a genuinely gross character and one that I would waste very little energy trying to defend. Its also important that if we were to discuss Ranma 1/2 we keep in mind the distinction between the manga than the anime, not because either is particularly better or worse but because they do handle some things differently. But what is interesting is that I think you can tell Ranma was created and written by a woman for both boys and girls

True, but the show makes it abundantly clear that nobody thinks his behaviour is okay. Also, doesn't he get his ass kicked fairly regularly for it?

Eh, its played off as "harmless" too easily for my tastes, "pervy harmless old man" is kind of a gross trope in general.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

How about you ask them to ban all those disgusting videos with real children before worrying about drawings that harm absolutely no one?

This will probably change nothing anyways. I don't know how they'd be able to regulate fan work at all.

Basically, it's a bad idea to even think about banning art.

Inb4 avatar quote like usual.

 

[Flying Toaster]

How about you ask them to ban all those disgusting videos with real children before worrying about drawings that harm absolutely no one?

This will probably change nothing anyways.

See this is a good point. I am not trying to say any of it is good but focus on the actual harm before the artist lynch mobs.

 

[Monocle]

Art shouldn't be banned, even perverse and disgusting art, because it sets a bad precedent that could allow for tamer things to be prohibited if someone interprets them to be offensive. Yes, this is a slippery slope argument, but the reasoning is sound with regard to censorship, where judging offensiveness is necessarily subjective, placing art at the mercy of individuals' personal sensibilities.

Historically, censors are very fickle. They can and do abuse their power to tell you what you're allowed to see and think. What happens when some bozo decides that Dragon Ball is child porn because kid Goku takes a bath? Suddenly the government is cracking down on art that no rational person would take issue with, that's what.

Don't be so quick to give up your rights to censors or applaud attacks on other people's rights. The most vile stuff is always trotted out first so that no one can object without appearing to defend awful things on their own merits. Of course everyone agrees that depictions of pedophilia are horrible. But make no mistake, content is not the issue here. If lawmakers wanted to protect children, they would target products and practices that harm children rather than products that possibly maybe encourage already mentally ill people to eventually molest kids somewhere down the line, the same way "killing simulators," AKA intensely violent video games, possibly maybe encourage mentally ill people to go on murder sprees.

For every manga that glorifies child rape, there are ten more that don't, but which people will object to anyway just because some aspect makes them feel uncomfortable. To depict is not always to endorse or incite. Art itself, and our fundamental right to free expression, depends on society recognizing that distinction.

 

[DeaviL]

its awwwright

Jesus Christ, that reference.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

It will always be weird to me how genitals are often censored in Japanese porn but this is still left alone.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

its awwwright

Haven't heard that in a while. I wonder if Mai-chan still holds up.

Happosai likes to touch without asking though.

Happosai is as much a statement in favor of predatory behavior as Herbert in Family Guy is. Neither of these characters behavior is portrayed as "okay".

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

How about you ask them to ban all those disgusting videos with real children before worrying about drawings that harm absolutely no one?

This will probably change nothing anyways. I don't know how they'd be able to regulate fan work at all.

Basically, it's a bad idea to even think about banning art.

Inb4 avatar quote like usual.

Mauricio_Magus, how did you know what I was gonna do?
You a thought cop? You know you gotta tell me if you're a cop.

Spoiler

Lol

I agree with your first part. I also agree they will not be able to regulate fan works either, though cyber policing is getting stronger each day.

But does the drawn content affect the real world? Apparently to beseda it does so I'm much more torn. I'd argue for more detailed research. Also please ban that child exploitation stuff, god damn Japan.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

How about you ask them to ban all those disgusting videos with real children before worrying about drawings that harm absolutely no one?

This will probably change nothing anyways. I don't know how they'd be able to regulate fan work at all.

Basically, it's a bad idea to even think about banning art.

Inb4 avatar quote like usual.

Wait for it...

 

[Doctor Doom]

Yes, please. Some of the hentai out there...D:

The problem with putting legal penalties on the possession and distribution of mere drawings is that anyone can draw, and anyone can put said drawings in your phones or computers and distribute it from your own hardware.

I see attempts at banning such drawings as yet another form of censorship. Which will not only prove ineffective, but will also result in a witch hunt where many innocents are incriminated by hostile parties and put through the gutter.

Putting people in jail over drawings of any kind is absurd.

That is the truth.

This is... confusing... I guess thats not technically classified as CP?

Not sure if it features provocative imagery, but in the U.S., they used to show on tv and also sell films like pretty baby uncensored, and they featured nudity of minors in adult contexts. They still sell that particular film in amazon, though not sure how much it's been censored if any.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Must be about some of the lest savory aspect of some idols groups and the videos and magazine shoots they sometimes do...

Not really about idol groups, but there are child idol DVDs available in Japan with kids in some pretty... sexual poses.

Eating bananas like you know what.
Eating ice, while theit falls down on their skin (that might look like you know what).
Wearing bikinis that just protect nipples and vaginas because of 1cm.
Posing in poses that might remind you of sexual acts.

 

[lethial]

Anime/Manga GAF incoming?

Like they'd be running.

 

[rhandino]

basically, except that the line between "idol groups" and "idol groups that do icky gravure" is usually pretty well defined. the overwhelming majority are the former, the latter definitely know what they're doing and what audience they're courting. decent rule of thumb is that if the music is at all worth listening to, they're probably not doing gross shit.

THIS!

How about you ask them to ban all those disgusting videos with real children before worrying about drawings that harm absolutely no one?

But...

As part of the grooming process, pedophiles have been known to start children on child pornography, to show them that other children do this and attempt to convince them it's okay. It's not an issue of winging a book at a kid from your pedo van, since that's not usually how child molestation occurs, instead think of your creepy uncle, showing you cartoons of kids having sex, and then suggesting you do likewise.

I do think they need to do something first about those seedy "idol groups" and "artsy photos and videos" before going for the creepy manga/anime/games but hey, I take what I get.

 

[ShinRPGamer]

Is this the end of third party Vita support?

Cold as ice!

 

[WickedLaharl]

Like they'd be running.

Lol

 

[Seductivpancakes]

its awwwright

I got that reference and I feel terrible.

 

[Kangi]

I'd be pretty okay with Japan cracking down on their creepy manga market and whatnot, but I'd also be pretty not okay with anybody trying to go down the road of making drawings illegal.

So I'm conflicted. I hope if they do take action, they find the right balance.

Oh, and banning that creepy child idol stuff should be priority number one when it comes to this. Seriously, why does that still exist there?

 

[Kenstar]

Art shouldn't be banned, even perverse and disgusting art, because it sets a bad precedent that could allow for tamer things to be prohibited if someone interprets them to be offensive. Yes, this is a slippery slope argument, but the reasoning is sound with regard to censorship, where judging offensiveness is necessarily subjective, placing art at the mercy of individuals' personal sensibilities.

Historically, censors are very fickle. They can and do abuse their power to tell you what you're allowed to see and think. What happens when some bozo decides that Dragon Ball is child porn because kid Goku takes a bath? Suddenly the government is cracking down on art that no rational person would take issue with, that's what.

Don't be so quick to give up your rights to censors or applaud attacks on other people's rights. The most vile stuff is always trotted out first so that no one can object without appearing to defend awful things on their own merits. Of course everyone agrees that depictions of pedophilia are horrible. But make no mistake, content is not the issue here. If lawmakers wanted to protect children, they would target products and practices that harm children rather than products that possibly maybe encourage already mentally ill people to eventually molest kids somewhere down the line, the same way "killing simulators," AKA intensely violent video games, possibly maybe encourage mentally ill people to go on murder sprees.

For every manga that glorifies child rape, there are ten more that don't, but which people will object to anyway just because some aspect makes them feel uncomfortable. To depict is not always to endorse or incite. Art itself, and our fundamental right to free expression, depends on society recognizing that distinction.

pls change avatar to animey pic so i can avatar quote and dismiss your position wholesale without addressing it thnks

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

I'd be pretty okay with Japan cracking down on their creepy manga market and whatnot, but I'd also be pretty not okay with anybody trying to go down the road of making drawings illegal.

So I'm conflicted. I hope if they do take action, they find the right balance.

Oh, and banning that creepy child idol stuff should be priority number one when it comes to this. Seriously, why does that still exist there?

Balance and government never mingle well so that's why I doubt cases will be handled well at all. But otherwise yeah, I agree with you.