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Zelda Wii U - Recap of 5 hours gameplay stream

(Good time based analysis).

I agree with most of this. Zelda games rarely directly connect back to a previous game. Rather the past events are seen more as legends than direct connections. I believe this game will be no different.

The parallels between OoT Hyrule and the great plateau are also hard to deny, but if it is suposed to be the ruins of Hyrule castle/town from OoT then there is no way only 100 years have passed. It's more likely that the Hyrule castle/town from OoT became that legendary "birthplace of Hyrule" over millennia, specifically as a nice callback to fans. Seeing the great statue of Hylia in the temple of time sorta reinforces both the fact that the great plateau is seen as the birthplace of Hyrule and that it's essentially a message to fans saying- "this is what Hyrule used to be. Look out into the horizon. This is what Hyrule is now. Enjoy!"

At least that's my takeaway from all of those references.

OoT not showing a downfall ending is precisely why it needs to happen. A lot of fans got mad at the timeline for creating a third split. BotW could explain it in a more palatable way and make it irrefutably canon.

I think another purpose for BotW is to soften the blow for those upset at the idea of the Hero of Time getting defeated by depicting him as getting resurrected and ultimately triumphing.

Also, since BotW obviously stars a Link who was previously defeated, why not just make him the one we already know got defeated? It'd mean less explaining on Nintendo's part.

It's one thing to read in a book that, in one timeline, the hero might have failed and Ganon prevails. It's another thing to actually show this happening in a game, especially a game as well-known and acclaimed as Ocarina of Time. It would be very confusing and jarring to people who have completed Ocarina of Time but don't really know about the split timeline shenanigans. It honestly just seems like a bad idea to me.

The other thing is, as I said above, Zelda games rarely ever directly connect to previous games. The events of Ocarina of Time have become a legend in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, not factual, documented events which lead to specific outcomes. That just isn't the way Zelda games operate.

This Link likely has been defeated, yes but the way the game prompts you to "remember..." I can guarantee we are going to uncover the details of this Link's past. That will be an integral part of the story, and I don't see Nintendo just taking this Link's past directly from Ocarina of Time.
 

TheMoon

Member
Wow!! Good find.

Guys, you're all missing the post where I debunked that find myself shortly after :D

Can't watch the video yet, but I'd say it's pretty obvious that the Guardians were built by the shiekah for good but then corrupted by ganon. Sure, maybe that's not correct, but I'd say it's the most obvious or likely scenario. The technology of the guardians is similar/the same as the shrines and towers in style, so they must have made them. And so far we've seen shiekah tech light up in one of two colors. Orange, which is for things that are currently inactive. And blue, which is for things Link has activated with his slate. But Guardians light up redish purple, similar to the swirls of Calamity Ganon hovering over the castle.

(and there's mini-guardians in the shrines)

Hijacked Guardians is kinda supported by the Guardian amiibo existing since it will very likely not do anything "bad" ...and also by their name :)

Tap Guardian amiibo to insta-summon friendly Guardian that wrecks shit.


This here's especially interesting for maxcriden. Miyamoto talks about being conflicted about the hunting in the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zjd4A5GDOo
 

Gsnap

Member
This here's especially interesting for maxcriden. Miyamoto talks about being conflicted about the hunting in the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zjd4A5GDOo

Well good news is, for anyone who doesn't like the idea of killing animals in a Zelda game, it doesn't seem like hunting is going to be a requirement at all. Yes, you need to eat something to refill health. But there's plenty of fruit, plants, mushrooms, etc., so a vegetarian playthrough should be completely possible.
 
Hijacked Guardians is kinda supported by the Guardian amiibo existing since it will very likely not do anything "bad" ...and also by their name :)

Tap Guardian amiibo to insta-summon friendly Guardian that wrecks shit.

On the contrary, I actually immediately assumed it would be like the Ganondorf amiibo for TP. Something that greatly increases the difficulty, like double damage.
 
I agree with most of this. Zelda games rarely directly connect back to a previous game. Rather the past events are seen more as legends than direct connections. I believe this game will be no different.

The parallels between OoT Hyrule and the great plateau are also hard to deny, but if it is suposed to be the ruins of Hyrule castle/town from OoT then there is no way only 100 years have passed. It's more likely that the Hyrule castle/town from OoT became that legendary "birthplace of Hyrule" over millennia, specifically as a nice callback to fans. Seeing the great statue of Hylia in the temple of time sorta reinforces both the fact that the great plateau is seen as the birthplace of Hyrule and that it's essentially a message to fans saying- "this is what Hyrule used to be. Look out into the horizon. This is what Hyrule is now. Enjoy!"

At least that's my takeaway from all of those references.



It's one thing to read in a book that, in one timeline, the hero might have failed and Ganon prevails. It's another thing to actually show this happening in a game, especially a game as well-known and acclaimed as Ocarina of Time. It would be very confusing and jarring to people who have completed Ocarina of Time but don't really know about the split timeline shenanigans. It honestly just seems like a bad idea to me.

The other thing is, as I said above, Zelda games rarely ever directly connect to previous games. The events of Ocarina of Time have become a legend in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, not factual, documented events which lead to specific outcomes. That just isn't the way Zelda games operate.

This Link likely has been defeated, yes but the way the game prompts you to "remember..." I can guarantee we are going to uncover the details of this Link's past. That will be an integral part of the story, and I don't see Nintendo just taking this Link's past directly from Ocarina of Time.

If the theory of this Link being the Hero of Time that failed is correct, they have to and will show us what happened. It wouldn't be confusing or jarring to see something you know has happened and Ragnarok's idea of the Hero of Time fixing his mistake is an amazing way to make it up to people that were disappointed in him failing. Also comparing how other games handled lore is pointless because we have told countless times how BotW breaks Zelda's conventions so it's fair to assume storytelling is one of those conventions plus 100 years is a much smaller break than the ones in WW and TP.
 

TheMoon

Member
Well good news is, for anyone who doesn't like the idea of killing animals in a Zelda game, it doesn't seem like hunting is going to be a requirement at all. Yes, you need to eat something to refill health. But there's plenty of fruit, plants, mushrooms, etc., so a vegetarian playthrough should be completely possible.

Yea they made it a point to bring that up during Treehouse Live. Veggie Playthrough is official.

On the contrary, I actually immediately assumed it would be like the Ganondorf amiibo for TP. Something that greatly increases the difficulty, like double damage.

I'd associate that with the Ganondorf amiibo again. You can bet they're gonna do something in this, too.
 
If the theory of this Link being the Hero of Time that failed is correct, they have to and will show us what happened. It wouldn't be confusing or jarring to see something you know has happened and Ragnarok's idea of the Hero of Time fixing his mistake is an amazing way to make it up to people that were disappointed in him failing. Also comparing how other games handled lore is pointless because we have told countless times how BotW breaks Zelda's conventions so it's fair to assume storytelling is one of those conventions plus 100 years is a much smaller break than the ones in WW and TP.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I personally think we will go back in time in the game 100 years to see how Link fails, or explore towns before they are destroyed, things like that, which wouldn't really work if OoT was 100 years ago.

If this is the "hero who failed" then it could still be a different hero, or it could be a similar story as the OoT Link but not the exact same story. I just don't see Nintendo tying this to OoT that tightly when we've seen plenty of influences from other games like Koroks, Hylia statue, the great bridge over Lake Hylia, etc... it seems much more like a mashup of themes from the games than a simple direct sequel to one game.

Again, I'll agree to disagree though.

I'd associate that with the Ganondorf amiibo again. You can bet they're gonna do something in this, too.

Yeah maybe, that was just my first assumption. Maybe a rideable Guardian mount? That would be pretty sweet, you'd have a walking tank (but hopefully it's not exclusively an amiibo function).
 

TheMoon

Member
Yeah maybe, that was just my first assumption. Maybe a rideable Guardian mount? That would be pretty sweet, you'd have a walking tank (but hopefully it's not exclusively an amiibo function).

Going by previous examples: Pet Guardian
access A: tap Guardian amiibo
access B: complete all shrines (or get all of the orbs, depending on if they are used for something else) = late game reward (like the Black Arwing in SFZ).
 
Going by previous examples: Pet Guardian
access A: tap Guardian amiibo
access B: complete all shrines (or get all of the orbs, depending on if they are used for something else) = late game reward (like the Black Arwing in SFZ).

Pet laser shooting spider Robot of mass destruction? I can dig it.
 
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I personally think we will go back in time in the game 100 years to see how Link fails, or explore towns before they are destroyed, things like that, which wouldn't really work if OoT was 100 years ago.

If this is the "hero who failed" then it could still be a different hero, or it could be a similar story as the OoT Link but not the exact same story. I just don't see Nintendo tying this to OoT that tightly when we've seen plenty of influences from other games like Koroks, Hylia statue, the great bridge over Lake Hylia, etc... it seems much more like a mashup of themes from the games than a simple direct sequel to one game.

Again, I'll agree to disagree though.

The currently unexplored time period of "between the Ocarina of Time era and the A Link to the Past" era is ripe for all of these references to be present.

- The Kokiri are nowhere to be found in either A Link to the Past or Twilight Princess, so who knows if they took on the Korok forms we know they're able to take based on Wind Waker

- There's plenty of reason for a statue of Goddess Hylia to exist in a temple built on top of what used to be a temple explicitly devoted to Hylia, in the center of the kingdom founded by a tribe under her protection (Hylia just hadn't been invented prior to OoT/TP, and so wouldn't be referenced there)

- If the Great Bridge exists in Twilight Princess, it could exist in another timeline set in roughly the same timeframe as Twilight Princess
 
The currently unexplored time period of "between the Ocarina of Time era and the A Link to the Past" era is ripe for all of these references to be present.

- The Kokiri are nowhere to be found in either A Link to the Past or Twilight Princess, so who knows if they took on the Korok forms we know they're able to take based on Wind Waker

- There's plenty of reason for a statue of Goddess Hylia to exist in a temple built on top of what used to be a temple explicitly devoted to Hylia, in the center of the kingdom founded by a tribe under her protection (Hylia just hadn't been invented prior to OoT/TP, and so wouldn't be referenced there)

- If the Great Bridge exists in Twilight Princess, it could exist in another timeline set in roughly the same timeframe as Twilight Princess

I guess it's true that Zelda games play fast and loose with time, seeing as how TP took place supposedly 100 years after OoT yet so much stuff happened in that century- creation of the twilight realm, lots of new buildings/bridges, lots of geography changes...

Really all I'm saying is that I would be pretty disappointed if this game is a direct sequel to OoT and that all of the backstory to this game is OoT. That would really hamper their ability to come up with any unique backstory lines and just screams playing off nostalgia.
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
I just find it kind of weird for a game that is about breaking conventions left and right that it may be going back to the well, ie OoT, more than other game, narratively speaking, if it really is a direct sequel featuring the Downfall's Hero of Time. It's just such an odd narrative choice in a game that looks to otherwise completely shed itself of the legacy that OoT ushered into the series gameplay/convention wise.

Nintendo themselves have admitted in the past the trouble of living up to the legacy of OoT, a game many considered to be one of the most perfect games ever. TP was a very deliberate attempt at recapturing that game completely. While BotW seems to be taking all the strides that games like the WW and SS could not to really do something brand new and yet the plot of the game may actually be us taking care of literal unfinished OoT business. Just kind of weird.
 
I guess it's true that Zelda games play fast and loose with time, seeing as how TP took place supposedly 100 years after OoT yet so much stuff happened in that century- creation of the twilight realm, lots of new buildings/bridges, lots of geography changes...

Really all I'm saying is that I would be pretty disappointed if this game is a direct sequel to OoT and that all of the backstory to this game is OoT. That would really hamper their ability to come up with any unique backstory lines and just screams playing off nostalgia.

1) The Twilight Realm existed before Ocarina of Time.
2) "Geography changes" are 100% a factor of the scale of the game changing and map features having to be rearranged to fit the environments they want to include. You didn't see the Great Bridge of Hylia in Ocarina of Time because it didn't feature in that story, but that doesn't mean that the Great Bridge was a thing that was built sometime between Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess.
3) There's already plenty of backstory that doesn't match anything we saw in Ocarina of Time - specifically what the hell are the Guardians, and (even if this Link is a revived version of the fallen OoT Link) how/why Link has been revived after/preserved for 100 years.
 

BowieZ

Banned
Are we absolutely certain that the original OOT Hyrule Castle was completely destroyed when Ganondorf built his castle over it? Or likewise when his castle was destroyed? (I honestly forget exactly what happens when OOT ends.)

Could there not be remnants of the original castle still in tact underneath, long afterwards?
 
Are we absolutely certain that the original OOT Hyrule Castle was completely destroyed when Ganondorf built his castle over it? Or likewise when his castle was destroyed? (I honestly forget exactly what happens when OOT ends.)

Could there not be remnants of the original castle still in tact underneath, long afterwards?

Considering that there's a giant lava crater above which his tower is resting on a piece of floating land where Hyrule Castle used to be, that we see the wreckage of one of the gates on the road to Hyrule Castle in the vicinity of Ganon's Tower, and that barely anything remains of Ganon's Tower after the final battle... I'd say there's really nothing left of Hyrule Castle after the Adult endings of Ocarina of Time.
 
I just find it kind of weird for a game that is about breaking conventions left and right that it may be going back to the well, ie OoT, more than other game, narratively speaking, if it really is a direct sequel featuring the Downfall's Hero of Time. It's just such an odd narrative choice in a game that looks to otherwise completely shed itself of the legacy that OoT ushered into the series gameplay/convention wise.

Nintendo themselves have admitted in the past the trouble of living up to the legacy of OoT, a game many considered to be one of the most perfect games ever. TP was a very deliberate attempt at recapturing that game completely. While BotW seems to be taking all the strides that games like the WW and SS could not to really do something brand new and yet the plot of the game may actually be us taking care of literal unfinished OoT business. Just kind of weird.

Yeah I agree with pretty much all of this. It would be a very odd choice to single out that one game, especially since we keep hearing so much about how this was inspired heavily by the original Legend of Zelda.

1) The Twilight Realm existed before Ocarina of Time.
2) "Geography changes" are 100% a factor of the scale of the game changing and map features having to be rearranged to fit the environments they want to include. You didn't see the Great Bridge of Hylia in Ocarina of Time because it didn't feature in that story, but that doesn't mean that the Great Bridge was a thing that was built sometime between Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess.
3) There's already plenty of backstory that doesn't match anything we saw in Ocarina of Time - specifically what the hell are the Guardians, and (even if this Link is a revived version of the fallen OoT Link) how/why Link has been revived after/preserved for 100 years.

I guess the Twilight Realm was essentially retconned into existence by TP since it wasn't "important" to the story previously. The Great Bridge of Hylia is a bridge which literally crosses Lake Hylia, a lake which is present in OoT, with no "great bridge" to be found. Could they have renamed another lake Lake Hylia, or could they have handwaved that tiny rope bridge in OoT into a huge stone bridge? Sure, but that's kind of exactly my point:

Zelda games very rarely follow each other in a direct and obvious manner. MM and Zelda 1+2 are the obvious exceptions (I guess WW>PH>ST too) but the way that they have introduced this game and this world, talking about breaking with conventions, talking about recreating that experience of Zelda 1, I really don't get the impression that they're trying to tie this game directly to a prequel. I'm sure there will be some subtle hints but I really really doubt this game is about the exact same Link that was defeated* in OoT.

*And I still can't get past this- Nintendo will not give an in depth backstory to this game which consists of "Hey remember Ocarina of Time, that game you all loved and played? Well this Link actually was defeated in that game. Oh, I know you weren't defeated when you played but this Link was, trust us."

It works decently enough as a very vague point in a book, but to actually base an entire backstory on that event which we've all seen doesn't happen in the playthroughs we're familiar with just seems very odd and confusing to me.
 

BowieZ

Banned
Considering that there's a giant lava crater above which his tower is resting on a piece of floating land where Hyrule Castle used to be, that we see the wreckage of one of the gates on the road to Hyrule Castle in the vicinity of Ganon's Tower, and that barely anything remains of Ganon's Tower after the final battle... I'd say there's really nothing left of Hyrule Castle after the Adult endings of Ocarina of Time.
Fair enough but honestly I think this could be one of those 'geographic' things that could be retconned, dismissed as an inaccurate digital representation of what happened, or easily explained away.

In other words, "Ganon built his castle over it, but, after it was destroyed, some of the original Hyrule Castle, magically fortified by the Sheikah, remains to this day."
 

Vena

Member
OoT not showing a downfall ending is precisely why it needs to happen. A lot of fans got mad at the timeline for creating a third split. BotW could explain it in a more palatable way and make it irrefutably canon.

I think another purpose for BotW is to soften the blow for those upset at the idea of the Hero of Time getting defeated by depicting him as getting resurrected and ultimately triumphing.

Fans weren't all that upset with Majora's Mask, though, were they? That game is rife with the frustrations of failure as faced by the denizens of Termina and by Link himself as he struggles with impending doom and failure in a world that is, barring him, completely aloof to their own demise.

Top it off, the final form of Link is, if we apply strength hierarchy and descriptions of the mask, the actual final boss as you curb stomp Majora. A demon mask that looks an awful lot like Link and is a transformative mask like the other key-masks so it very definitely represents some powerful entity.

And then he ends up dead anyway as the Hero's Shade.
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Someone bring me up to speed on this whole castle rebuilt thing.

What about it specifically? Not sure what aspect you're confused on.

But just to post something possibly useful; at the future of OoT Hyrule Castle was totally and completely leveled by Ganondorf and replaced by his own castle floating over lava, which Link then destroyed completely battling him. In the Adult timeline and Downfall timelines it remained so, Child timeline circumvented his rise so the original Hyrule Castle was still standing. If BotW is a direct sequel to OoT in the Downfall timeline set 100 years after, how did the Hyrule Castle the Old Man specifically points to in the demo come in to being? In WW a lot of time passed between OoT and the Great Flood so it made sense a new castle was built. But with BotW the idea seems to be that immediately following Link's defeat Zelda and the Sages contained Calamity Ganon. But how do they contain him in a castle that no longer exists?
 

Luigiv

Member
Whoa, I just found this:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/632936-the-legend-of-zelda-wii-u/73393677

The thing with the hearts was wrong, but the D-pad stuff is right, and it even shows what down does.

Hmm.

So this is the leak
yr9BiAB.png

and this is the E3 demo
Ek3iGDY.png


Given the leak is from 4 months ago, I guess it's legit and things have just changed since then.
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Bomb is also different. Spikes and different top. Kind of like a sticky bomb maybe. Though it could just be a quasi exploding thing.
 
Fans weren't all that upset with Majora's Mask, though, were they? That game is rife with the frustrations of failure as faced by the denizens of Termina and by Link himself as he struggles with impending doom and failure in a world that is, barring him, completely aloof to their own demise.

Top it off, the final form of Link is, if we apply strength hierarchy and descriptions of the mask, the actual final boss as you curb stomp Majora. A demon mask that looks an awful lot like Link and is a transformative mask like the other key-masks so it very definitely represents some powerful entity.

And then he ends up dead anyway as the Hero's Shade.

You don't think he just died of old age?
 

Luigiv

Member
Bomb is also different. Spikes and different top. Kind of like a sticky bomb maybe.

I think it's just a redesigned icon. The one on top doesn't look like it's meant to spikey, it looks like it's exploding. I guess they changed that because it was confusing.
 
Hmm.

So this is the leak
yr9BiAB.png

and this is the E3 demo
Ek3iGDY.png


Given the leak is from 4 months ago, I guess it's legit and things have just changed since then.

I always love seeing how certain things in games have gone through redesigns during the game's development. That's typically a side of gaming we rarely get to see.

The horse/Knight head being right-facing makes me think that that image is actually mirrored.

Perhaps the leaker mirrored the image so that it would be harder to trace its origin?
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
I think it's just a redesigned icon. The one on top doesn't look like it's meant to spikey, it looks like it's exploding. I guess they changed that because it was confusing.

Maybe, but that would likely mean the redesigned the bomb as well. The bomb we saw in the E3 demo looked just like the bomb icon. Same round metal ring top, not a square peg top like the leaked one. Could be the icon and model both got updated or could actually be a different variation like the Square bomb.
 

Tookay

Member
Why would he become the Shade? Aren't Stalfos those who failed to escape the Lost Woods?

He's not a Stalfos, though. He's a shade; it's completely different, even if they share design similarities.

OoT Link lived his life, died, but had regrets that he couldn't pass on his knowledge. So he became the Hero's Shade to fulfill that longing.
 

Vena

Member
Has anyone else noticed this guy in the trailer?

5GcjSJG.png

Looks like a case of "show don't tell" teaching mechanics by design.

He's not a Stalfos, though. He's a shade; it's completely different, even if they share design similarities.

OoT Link lived his life, died, but had regrets that he couldn't pass on his knowledge. So he became the Hero's Shade to fulfill that longing.

Oh I thought he was a stalfos.
 

balgajo

Member
I hope we get options for temperature because I wouldn't want to be stuck to Fahrenheit as here in Brazil we use Celsius. I don't mind am/pm as I'm already used to it.
 

KingBroly

Banned
I just thought of something. Since there aren't Rupees and Hearts hidden in Grass anymore...

that means the Minish are extinct

;_;

damnit Link, you had ONE JOB!
 
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