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Covid 19 Thread: [no bitching about masks of Fauci edition]

Narasumas

Member
Please look up what totalitarian means.

Nobody here is being 'totalitarian' or dictatorial. You, and your 'vaccine hesitant' buddies can freely come into this thread and express your 'vaccine hesitant' views.

But what you can't do is come in here and expect not to be hauled over the coals for having such a dumb ass opinion.

And yes, this is a clear and binary thing at this stage - with all the months that have gone by with us all having to cope with this stupid virus (a time extended by the 'vaccine hesitant'), and all the evidence and information we all have at our fingertips right now that's freely available, that clearly shows how safe and effective the vaccines are.

And here's the binary for you in clear English:

Had the vaccine? Sensible. Intelligent. Correct.

Refused to have the vaccine? Gullible. Selfish. Wrong.
Look, I’m not gonna be the next guy you troll into an argument with your condescension. Please stop putting words in my mouth regarding me and ‘my buddies’. I am fully vaccinated but fundamentally disagree with you on how we think policies should be enacted.

Let’s see if we can let someone or anyone host an opinion different than the high and almighty “Funk” posters without personal attack. I haven’t seen it yet. You can’t resist it apparently.
 
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QSD

Member
Not gonna lie…whether or not you disagreed with Clocecko or not, he should not have been banned for trying to defend himself from what was an initially, otherwise benign anecdote of his own COVID experiences and opinions. He was dogpiled and was goaded into the altercation and situation that everyone wished to see play out, and subsequently was banned so that the self-gratuitous could celebrate.
I agree here, maybe he shouldn't have used the R word but other than that he was dogpiled right from the get go. Not exactly very hospitable.

Please look up what totalitarian means.


Had the vaccine? Sensible. Intelligent. Correct.

Refused to have the vaccine? Gullible. Selfish. Wrong.
This is actually pretty close to what totalitarian means to me: there is no grey area, there is no nuance, there is only one right answer. Only an immature or extremely sheltered person thinks like this (or a Sith).

People aren't all rational, they don't all think like you. Quite often they will follow their intuitions, however misguided, or their friends, etc etc. There really isn't any point in judging them for it or behaving in this way, you will convince exactly no-one, the only thing you do is worsen and further entrench existing divisions just to stroke your own ego. More entrenchment > more hesitancy > more death just so you can feel good about yourself. Well done.
 

FunkMiller

Member
This is actually pretty close to what totalitarian means to me: there is no grey area, there is no nuance, there is only one right answer. Only an immature or extremely sheltered person thinks like this (or a Sith).

People aren't all rational, they don't all think like you. Quite often they will follow their intuitions, however misguided, or their friends, etc etc. There really isn't any point in judging them for it or behaving in this way, you will convince exactly no-one, the only thing you do is worsen and further entrench existing divisions just to stroke your own ego. More entrenchment > more hesitancy > more death just so you can feel good about yourself. Well done.

Tom Cruise What GIF


Totalitarianism is a system of government that prohibits all opposition, and requires complete subservience to the state. It has nothing to do with right or wrong opinions. ...or ripping into people when they demonstrate that their opinion is stupid.

And I'm not trying to convince anyone. The time for that is long past. All the evidence is out there to show that the vaccines are safe and effective, and that being anti-vaxx is selfish and wrong.

I'm taking the piss out them, because being anti-vaxx is really, really dumb.
 
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FunkMiller

Member
Not gonna lie…whether or not you disagreed with Clocecko or not, he should not have been banned for trying to defend himself from what was an initially, otherwise benign anecdote of his own COVID experiences and opinions. He was dogpiled and was goaded into the altercation and situation that everyone wished to see play out, and subsequently was banned so that the self-gratuitous could celebrate.

He basically said "I got covid, but got over it fine, so I'm okay and didn't need the vaccine" and then when he was called out on his selfishness, he got annoyed. His anecdote wasn't benign - it was demonstrative of the selfishness at the heart of all anti-vaxxers.

You don't get to voice an opinion without getting a response you might not like.
 
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poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I agree here, maybe he shouldn't have used the R word but other than that he was dogpiled right from the get go. Not exactly very hospitable.
I would agree If he hadn't just joined a video game site and only ever posted in the most politically charged thread with a 'perfect' anecdotal case - not getting the vaccine, getting COVID but putting absolutely no-one at risk except his girlfriend who is totally hot and who is magically immune and who is also totally real. I'm only shocked he didn't 'know' at least one guy in his circle of friends that was completely healthy but their nut sack exploded after getting the vaccine killing a bus full of nuns.
 

FunkMiller

Member
I would agree If he hadn't just joined a video game site and only ever posted in the most politically charged thread with a 'perfect' anecdotal case - not getting the vaccine, getting COVID but putting absolutely no-one at risk except his girlfriend who is totally hot and who is magically immune and who is also totally real. I'm only shocked he didn't 'know' at least one guy in his circle of friends that was completely healthy but their nut sack exploded after getting the vaccine killing a bus full of nuns.

Stephen Colbert Chefs Kiss GIF by The Late Show With Stephen Colbert
 

highrider

Banned
This is actually pretty close to what totalitarian means to me: there is no grey area, there is no nuance, there is only one right answer. Only an immature or extremely sheltered person thinks like this (or a Sith).

People aren't all rational, they don't all think like you. Quite often they will follow their intuitions, however misguided, or their friends, etc etc. There really isn't any point in judging them for it or behaving in this way, you will convince exactly no-one, the only thing you do is worsen and further entrench existing divisions just to stroke your own ego. More entrenchment > more hesitancy > more death just so you can feel good about yourself. Well done.
facts
 
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QSD

Member
Tom Cruise What GIF


Totalitarianism is a system of government that prohibits all opposition, and requires complete subservience to the state. It has nothing to do with right or wrong opinions. ...or ripping into people when they demonstrate that their opinion is stupid.

And I'm not trying to convince anyone. The time for that is long past. All the evidence is out there to show that the vaccines are safe and effective, and that being anti-vaxx is selfish and wrong.

I'm taking the piss out them, because being anti-vaxx is really, really dumb.
Which does nothing except stroke your own ego while adding to the toxicity for everybody else. And you call others selfish...
thank you
 

FunkMiller

Member
Which does nothing except stroke your own ego while adding to the toxicity for everybody else. And you call others selfish...

I'll continue to lambast people for not getting the safe and effective vaccine that helps other people stay safe.

You can moan all you want, call me all the names under the sun, claim I'm being toxic all you like... but the truth is, the only truly toxic people are the ones who refuse to get the covid vaccine - because they are demonstrably thinking only of themselves, ignoring evidence, and actively putting other people at risk.

Which is just a little worse than calling somebody out on a gaming forum, wouldn't you say?
 
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QSD

Member
I'll continue to lambast people for not getting the safe and effective vaccine that helps other people stay safe.

You can moan all you want, call me all the names under the sun, claim I'm being toxic all you like... but the truth is, the only truly toxic people are the ones who refuse to get the covid vaccine - because they are demonstrably thinking only of themselves, ignoring evidence, and actively putting other people at risk.

Which is just a little worse than calling somebody out on a gaming forum, wouldn't you say?
You are also only thinking of yourself. There is no-one you are reaching with your self-righteous preaching, so it's pure self-gratification what you're doing. All you achieve is ruining it for the rest of us who actually want to hear about people's experiences and opinions without the toxicity and the vitriol. Somehow you are convinced that you are doing something commendable by adding more shit-talking and finger pointing to an already shitty situation. Think about how to build bridges and convince people if you actually want to help and not just masturbate.
 

FunkMiller

Member
You are also only thinking of yourself. There is no-one you are reaching with your self-righteous preaching, so it's pure self-gratification what you're doing. All you achieve is ruining it for the rest of us who actually want to hear about people's experiences and opinions without the toxicity and the vitriol. Somehow you are convinced that you are doing something commendable by adding more shit-talking and finger pointing to an already shitty situation. Think about how to build bridges and convince people if you actually want to help and not just masturbate.

As stated - countless times by me and many others in this thread - all the evidence is right there for anyone to see that the covid vaccine is safe, and taking it is best for our communities, and the vulnerable people in them.

There are no more bridges to be built, because the only people who haven't had the vaccine by now (others than those that medically can't) are anti-vaxxers who refuse to see the truth, and only care about themselves.

And basically dude... fuck them, eh? Come on.... they're selfish little arseholes. Why are you defending them? Why do you feel the need to empathise with them so much?
 
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Cyberpunkd

Member
You are also only thinking of yourself.
No, he is not - he is adding to mass immunity making it easier to protect vulnerable people that cannot get the vaccine. He is also making sure than in the case he gets Covid he is unlikely to develop serious symptoms and thus require hospital care. How is that difficult to understand?
 
You are also only thinking of yourself. There is no-one you are reaching with your self-righteous preaching, so it's pure self-gratification what you're doing. All you achieve is ruining it for the rest of us who actually want to hear about people's experiences and opinions without the toxicity and the vitriol. Somehow you are convinced that you are doing something commendable by adding more shit-talking and finger pointing to an already shitty situation. Think about how to build bridges and convince people if you actually want to help and not just masturbate.

we are lucky to be in the position we are without anti-vaxxers…had it been 70/30 (or 80/20) the other way, with people making the same decisions that the now banned poster had we would be having a very different conversation now
 

QSD

Member
As stated - countless times by me and many others in this thread - all the evidence is right there for anyone to see that the covid vaccine is safe, and taking it is best for our communities, and the vulnerable people in them.
Agreed, but nobody is arguing about this right now though, I'm talking about what you are contributing to this thread with your hateful attitude. How are you helping? What are you contributing with your endless ego-wankery about how smart you are and how stupid the anti-vaxxers. Nobody wants to read it. All you are doing is just publicly masturbating. And it's no nut november...

There are no more bridges to be built, because the only people who haven't had the vaccine by now (others than those that medically can't) are anti-vaxxers who refuse to see the truth, and only care about themselves.
This is wrong on so many levels it's hard to know where to begin. There really isn't any choice but to build bridges, in the end we still share the same country with these people you are so eager to discard. They are our friends, colleagues, neighbours, family. Everyone I know has a couple of unvaxxed people in their social circle.

Other than that I really don't know what you say, you have such a rigid, woefully low-resolution view of human psychology and motivation that it makes me suspect you are on the spectrum somewhere.

And basically dude... fuck them, eh? Come on.... they're selfish little arseholes. Why are you defending them? Why do you feel the need to empathise with them so much?
Earlier this week the Dutch government announced definitively that they would not be enforcing any kind of vaccine mandates for health care workers. Why? The shortage of health care workers is so big, that excluding the unvaxxed would cause serious problems and most likely deaths due to understaffing. Which is a long way of saying: we need these people, we need their skills and hands by the bedside. You can call them selfish, but even unvaxxed they are contributing more ATM than the average Crypto Bro who's sitting on his ass at home staring at his Cardano holdings.
 

ManaByte

Member
So...what's going on with India. Seems like for a while the fear porn mongers were busting a nut every 10 minutes with doom and gloom from India and it's been silent.

I assume based on the previous reporting that the Delta variant has completely eradicated the country by now?
 
So...what's going on with India. Seems like for a while the fear porn mongers were busting a nut every 10 minutes with doom and gloom from India and it's been silent.

I assume based on the previous reporting that the Delta variant has completely eradicated the country by now?

there’s only the cows left to celebrate Diwali this week
 

sinnergy

Member
So...what's going on with India. Seems like for a while the fear porn mongers were busting a nut every 10 minutes with doom and gloom from India and it's been silent.

I assume based on the previous reporting that the Delta variant has completely eradicated the country by now?
They are all dead or zombies… but what’s your point ? That COVID is fake ?
 
makes me suspect you are on the spectrum somewhere.

can’t imagine how twisted your concern trolling panties would be should someone have referred to your defenseless anti-vax toddlers as probably mentally ill

that said you do understand that the point of a spectrum is that everyone is on it, right? It wasn’t that you were trying to diagnose another poster with a cognitive condition or anything
 

QSD

Member
can’t imagine how twisted your concern trolling panties would be should someone have referred to your defenseless anti-vax toddlers as probably mentally ill

that said you do understand that the point of a spectrum is that everyone is on it, right? It wasn’t that you were trying to diagnose another poster with a cognitive condition or anything
Ok I admit it was below the belt maybe. Everyone is on the spectrum somewhere, that's right. What I'm tried but failed to say with some measure of diplomacy was that he has a rather formidable blind spot re: what motivates people and how they arrive at a position/decision.
 

FunkMiller

Member
Ok I admit it was below the belt maybe. Everyone is on the spectrum somewhere, that's right. What I'm tried but failed to say with some measure of diplomacy was that he has a rather formidable blind spot re: what motivates people and how they arrive at a position/decision.

No, my friend. I have no blind spot as to what motivates anti-vaxxers.

And give it a rest with the holier than thou defence of them, eh?

Why not try feeling a little empathy for the (continuing) plight of thousands of innocent immunocompromised people, whose lives are being ruined by anti-vaxxers.

Or is it too much on the spectrum to care more about them?
 
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Ok I admit it was below the belt maybe. Everyone is on the spectrum somewhere, that's right. What I'm tried but failed to say with some measure of diplomacy was that he has a rather formidable blind spot re: what motivates people and how they arrive at a position/decision.

the banned poster articulated his decision and it did not take any level of scrutiny for it to completely fall apart, until that poster decided whatever I was saying was also contributing to the decision and then finally admitting that he didn’t know anything about vaccines (by anything implying all the positive inputs that could have helped his decision making)…it’s always this same circus and it’s tedious
 
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QSD

Member
No, he is not - he is adding to mass immunity making it easier to protect vulnerable people that cannot get the vaccine. He is also making sure than in the case he gets Covid he is unlikely to develop serious symptoms and thus require hospital care. How is that difficult to understand?
He did that by taking the vax, sure. What FM's doing in this thread ATM though, is a separate issue.
No, my friend. I have no blind spot as to what motivates anti-vaxxers.
Of course you don't think you have a blind spot, that is the whole thing with blind spots. You don't know you have them and tend to think other people are acting crazy when they're in it. Dude there are so many (millions) vaccine hesitant people around, you have to at least understand that to say they are all uniformly motivated by the same thing is extremely reductive and not conductive to any kind of dialogue. It's also self serving as you get to claim the moral high ground. In other words, it's not really a realistic/objective take at all.

A couple of months ago there was a dude in this thread (forget his name) that made a post that he got pretty sick from covid, and that he thankfully had recovered. He said he intended to take the vaxx but just kept postponing it for no apparent reason until wham he got infected and he obviously felt pretty remorseful. Now we can speculate all we like about what kind of subconscious process/aversion made him keep postponing the vaxx, but what I'm pointing to is that you don't even need to be consciously heavily opposed to taking it in order to still be unvaxxed at the big moment. Humans are not rational beings in that way. The generalizations and defamations that constantly keep flying around in this thread make conversation about stuff like that impossible, when those are the conversations that might actually help get some people over the line. The insults and name calling achieve pretty much the opposite, they just deepen divisions and shut down conversation, inevitably leading to more death.

the banned poster articulated his decision and it did not take any level of scrutiny for it to completely fall apart, until that poster decided whatever I was saying was also contributing to the decision and then finally admitting that he didn’t know anything about vaccines (by anything implying all the positive inputs that could have helped his decision making)…it’s always this same circus and it’s tedious
Yeah sure he could have been a troll, but he could also just be a somewhat inarticulate dude who acts on his feelings/is impulsive and doesn't think about stuff too deeply. People have been known to actually be like that in the wild.
 
Yeah sure he could have been a troll, but he could also just be a somewhat inarticulate dude who acts on his feelings/is impulsive and doesn't think about stuff too deeply. People have been known to actually be like that in the wild.

he could have been genuine, he probably was, but when explained to how his philosophy of live and let live wasn’t so simple he reverted in a shell, that was new information for him that he couldn’t react to and that’s where it went off the rails because you need to be prepared to handle differing opinions here and he clearly had an idea of how his story would have been met…”let’s agree to disagree”, and when that didn’t happen he couldn’t handle it

so I suppose I expect people to be a bit more prepared when choosing their words for public consumption
 
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FunkMiller

Member
Of course you don't think you have a blind spot, that is the whole thing with blind spots. You don't know you have them and tend to think other people are acting crazy when they're in it. Dude there are so many (millions) vaccine hesitant people around, you have to at least understand that to say they are all uniformly motivated by the same thing is extremely reductive and not conductive to any kind of dialogue. It's also self serving as you get to claim the moral high ground. In other words, it's not really a realistic/objective take at all.

A couple of months ago there was a dude in this thread (forget his name) that made a post that he got pretty sick from covid, and that he thankfully had recovered. He said he intended to take the vaxx but just kept postponing it for no apparent reason until wham he got infected and he obviously felt pretty remorseful. Now we can speculate all we like about what kind of subconscious process/aversion made him keep postponing the vaxx, but what I'm pointing to is that you don't even need to be consciously heavily opposed to taking it in order to still be unvaxxed at the big moment. Humans are not rational beings in that way. The generalizations and defamations that constantly keep flying around in this thread make conversation about stuff like that impossible, when those are the conversations that might actually help get some people over the line. The insults and name calling achieve pretty much the opposite, they just deepen divisions and shut down conversation, inevitably leading to more death.

I notice in all of this you completely fail to engage with my point about all the people whose lives are being ruined by anti-vaxxers. You know… the actual victims here. The ones who are forced to remain in lockdown because an endless parade of healthy people don’t want to get a jab for no good reason.

If only you’d apply some of your good hearted defence of the ‘vaccine hesitant’ to those poor people, eh?

But then literally none of you anti-vax defenders have done that once, no matter how many times I bring it up, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
 

QSD

Member
he could have been genuine, he probably was, but when explained to how his philosophy of live and let live wasn’t so simple he reverted in a shell, that was new information for him that he couldn’t react to and that’s where it went off the rails because you need to be prepared to handle differing opinions here and he clearly had an idea of how his story would have been met…”let’s agree to disagree”, and when that didn’t happen he couldn’t handle it

so I suppose I expect people to be a bit more prepared when choosing their words for public consumption
Edit: forgot to say that I do appreciate you at least trying to take the opposing point of view, that he's honest.

so how about we switch the focus from being right (i.e. figuring out where billy-bob's grand philosophy of life falls short and hammering him over the head with it) to sort of just meeting him where he's at and trying to nudge him towards a slightly better, more vaxxed place? I was at least curious about his '$100 for a vax' story and why that crossed a line for him. I'd like it if in this thread people didn't have to mind much whether their words are fit for public consumption. I'd just like to hear what their experiences with Covid were. I mean just a couple of pages ago their was this very remorseful story by an ex-antivaxxer, he had a very hard time of it, never had been as ill in his life. I think a post like that does more to convince hesitant people than anything else we can write here. But yeah, the law of large numbers just dictates that there will also be stories about people who didn't get the vax, got covid, and were alright (we could call them the Joe Rogans)

I notice in all of this you completely fail to engage with my point about all the people whose lives are being ruined by anti-vaxxers. You know… the actual victims here. The ones who are forced to remain in lockdown because an endless parade of healthy people don’t want to get a jab for no good reason.

If only you’d apply some of your good hearted defence of the ‘vaccine hesitant’ to those poor people, eh?

But then literally none of you anti-vax defenders have done that once, no matter how many times I bring it up, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
Well, you don't really engage with mine much either, do you? But fine, I concede that it's easy to forget about those people, and you are right, this sudden '2nd epidemic' of anti-vaxx sentiment is affecting them badly.
The truth is I'm no moral supercomputer, I don't know how to weigh these things exactly. All I know is that if you are basically discarding a significant % of the human race based on some moral standard you have, then you are probably setting your standard too high for practical purposes. (think about the point I made earlier, with the health care workers, in that case we simply can't afford to discard them, no matter what your moral stance is) In the end, human nature is just what it is. The pandemic came, and then this anti-vaxx thing just suddenly coalesced basically out of nowhere (the numbers of pre pandemic anti vaxxers was insignificant) and I don't fully know how to make sense of it. I'd like to figure it out
 
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so how about we switch the focus from being right (i.e. figuring out where billy-bob's grand philosophy of life falls short and hammering him over the head with it) to sort of just meeting him where he's at and trying to nudge him towards a slightly better, more vaxxed place? I was at least curious about his '$100 for a vax' story and why that crossed a line for him. I'd like it if in this thread people didn't have to mind much whether their words are fit for public consumption. I'd just like to hear what their experiences with Covid were. I mean just a couple of pages ago their was this very remorseful story by an ex-antivaxxer, he had a very hard time of it, never had been as ill in his life. I think a post like that does more to convince hesitant people than anything else we can write here. But yeah, the law of large numbers just dictates that there will also be stories about people who didn't get the vax, got covid, and were alright (we could call them the Joe Rogans)

Words are all we have here so out of everything they need to be the best we can make them. His issue was that some people were offering incentives to get vaccine and that sounded strange enough for him not to bother, you might have got a better answer had he not need banned as soon as you probed that. But I knew that as soon as he started listing how the vaccines were being discussed and how my discussion with him aided all that I knew the conversation was over. Just a failure to understand how his actions relate to society. It would have been like goldilocks, no questions or points would have been good enough for him to explain his position better.
 
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DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
Tim Pool got COVID and he got very very sick. Said it was the worst illness he ever had. Not sure if he was vaccinated or not.

He did a video thanking Joe Rogan for helping him. He said he called a bunch of doctors and urgent care and they told him to stay home and wait it out and he was worried if he did that he could possibly get to a state where he needs to be rushed to the hospital. So he called Rogan and Rogan took care if getting him hooked up with monoclonal antibodies. He said they really helped him. He went like feeling like he could possibly even die if it escalated to feeling very good in about a day.

Say what you want about Joe and his beliefs on the subject, but he really cares about people. Never heard anyone who knows him say otherwise. I feel Tim has drifted off into some places lately where I don't agree with, but I'm glad he's feeling better and kudos to Joe for helping him out and getting him hooked up with the right people to get him treatments.
 
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QSD

Member
Words are all we have here so out of everything they need to be the best we can make them. His issue was that some people were offering incentives to get vaccine and that sounded strange enough for him not to bother, you might have got a better answer had he not need banned as soon as you probed that. But I knew that as soon as he started listing how the vaccines were being discussed and how my discussion with him aided all that I knew the conversation was over. Just a failure to understand how his actions relate to society. It would have been like goldilocks, no questions or points would have been good enough for him to explain his position better.
I stil maintain there is some level of mind reading going on here, but what the hell, I can't completely discount the possibility that you are capable of telepathy

Anyway the problem with the way you are presenting your argument is that you act as if "how his actions relate to society" is this slam-dunk obvious moral point, and on some level it is, but at the same time in practice people vary wildly in what level of moral responsibility they feel towards society/the vulnerable. It's a bit like arguing about vegetarianism... on some level the vegetarians are simply correct that - all other things being equal - it would be better from a moral standpoint if we didn't slaughter all those cows and chickens. But in practice, people vary wildly in what level of moral responsibility they feel toward animals and their welfare. EDIT: would you be comfortable barring meat eaters from society because their moral framework falls short?
 
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Narasumas

Member
Anyway the problem with the way you are presenting your argument is that you act as if "how his actions relate to society" is this slam-dunk obvious moral point, and on some level it is, but at the same time in practice people vary wildly in what level of moral responsibility they feel towards society/the vulnerable. It's a bit like arguing about vegetarianism... on some level the vegetarians are simply correct that - all other things being equal - it would be better from a moral standpoint if we didn't slaughter all those cows and chickens. But in practice, people vary wildly in what level of moral responsibility they feel toward animals and their welfare. EDIT: would you be comfortable barring meat eaters from society because their moral framework falls short?
I would add too that morality itself is a spectrum. You could think you’re a moral champ because you’re a vegan, but steal money from the elderly…or counterpoint— a slaughterhouse operator could donate a large sum of all of his earnings towards worldly causes.

It’s varied. I would argue that by nature a majority of all people are good honest people. It’s when people make assumptions or deductions on other peoples parts about issues that in turn makes that person out to be a bad or in this case “morally selfish” person that I take issue.

I don’t know enough about any of you lovely bastards to make assumptions on your parts, so we shouldn’t be so quick to categorize folks.
 
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Loki

Count of Concision
Interesting that Pfizer is touting 89% efficacy at reducing hospitalizations in high-risk adults exposed to COVID for its new antiviral pill, yet they also stipulate that it must be taken with an HIV drug. Wonder why that is - it's certainly very curious. If there is some anti-retroviral activity that the HIV drug provides which is needed as part of the mechanism of action, couldn't that have been engineered into the single COVID pill? Further, why would any anti-retroviral functionality be needed at all when COVID is not a retrovirus? (i.e. it does not enter the nucleus and integrate with DNA).
 
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12Goblins

Lil’ Gobbie
Tim Pool got COVID and he got very very sick. Said it was the worst illness he ever had. Not sure if he was vaccinated or not.

He did a video thanking Joe Rogan for helping him. He said he called a bunch of doctors and urgent care and they told him to stay home and wait it out and he was worried if he did that he could possibly get to a state where he needs to be rushed to the hospital. So he called Rogan and Rogan took care if getting him hooked up with monoclonal antibodies. He said they really helped him. He went like feeling like he could possibly even die if it escalated to feeling very good in about a day.

Say what you want about Joe and his beliefs on the subject, but he really cares about people. Never heard anyone who knows him say otherwise. I feel Tim has drifted off into some places lately where I don't agree with, but I'm glad he's feeling better and kudos to Joe for helping him out and getting him hooked up with the right people to get him treatments.

yea the problem is some of the stuff he recommends might not help, when we know the vaccine can. also feeling good after talking to JR really tells us nothing

I'm okay with it, and the stuff he recommends is legit, but some people will die because they took JRs word over their doctors
 

Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
Interesting that Pfizer is touting 89% efficacy at reducing hospitalizations in high-risk adults exposed to COVID for its new antiviral pill, yet they also stipulate that it must be taken with an HIV drug. Wonder why that is - it's certainly very curious. If there is some anti-retroviral activity that the HIV drug provides which is needed as part of the mechanism of action, couldn't that have been engineered into the single COVID pill? Further, why would any anti-retroviral functionality be needed at all when COVID is not a retrovirus? (i.e. it does not enter the nucleus and integrate with DNA).
Ritonavir is an inhibitor of several cytochrome p450 enzymes and is commonly used in cocktails to decrease hepatic metabolism of drugs. It has nothing to do with its antiviral properties.
 
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Have to express frustration with a person who was irrelevant to my life now likely causing my patients to ask or demand ivermectin, and probably becoming more belligerent again. I haven't been threatened in a few months, but I bet that changes.
 

Ionian

Member
I was hospitalised a few times this year (said before, not COVID related) was asked every time if I had the vaccination by nurses. Said I thought so with the amount on injections I was getting, not to mention the blood taking. Must have posted this before.

Ended up going to the nurses desk and asking when I had the strength to walk. No record of ever giving it to me but there will be a tent outside on xyz day. I couldn't believe it. Also if a nurse is putting a drip in your arm, piss first and thank me later. Torture holding it in if they're giving you a few.

So a main hospital asking me continually yet never gave me it. 'Walk downstairs there's a tent on certain days at certain times', when I couldn't walk. Fucking idiots. Also no masks on any of the nurses., in a damn main hospital.

First comment I got from family when I got home "You look worse then you did before going in". That cheered me up.

Still don't know if they did as they didn't know. Queues now are smaller though and am far healthier. Probably had it from every bastard in the ward and fought it off. Will be getting it soon enough. Shockingly poor behaviour though. 'Hello, think I'm ill and can barely walk','there's a tent outside on a Tuesday for 60euro'. Absolute assholes. Tore up the ambulance bill. They keep sending them anyway, i'll tell them i'm only available from a tent on a Tuesday.
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
So he called Rogan and Rogan took care if getting him hooked up with monoclonal antibodies.
Bruh, do you know what you are talking about? First of all monoclonal antibodies are not candy, they are used for very specific treatments e.g. haemophilia type IX.
They are also not available in pharmacies, this stuff is Rx - hospital only.
WTF is a podcaster doing walking around ‘hooking people up’ on a medicine?
 

Loki

Count of Concision
Ritonavir is an inhibitor of several cytochrome p450 enzymes and is commonly used in cocktails to decrease hepatic metabolism of drugs. It has nothing to do with its antiviral properties.

Thanks for the info - that solves that mystery. So they want to decrease the rate of metabolism of the COVID pill, presumably to allow it to persist in the body and have its effect for a longer period of time?
 
The Pfizer pill is great but must be taken in time, during the 'it's probably nothing, my immune system can handle it' period. By the time they get wheeled into the emergency room it's not going to do much anymore.
 

DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
Bruh, do you know what you are talking about? First of all monoclonal antibodies are not candy, they are used for very specific treatments e.g. haemophilia type IX.
They are also not available in pharmacies, this stuff is Rx - hospital only.
WTF is a podcaster doing walking around ‘hooking people up’ on a medicine?
He put the arrangements in place and got him in touch with the right people and/or paid for the treatment for him.

Didn’t think it was that hard to understand. Bruh.
 

FunkMiller

Member
Well, you don't really engage with mine much either, do you? But fine, I concede that it's easy to forget about those people, and you are right, this sudden '2nd epidemic' of anti-vaxx sentiment is affecting them badly.
The truth is I'm no moral supercomputer, I don't know how to weigh these things exactly. All I know is that if you are basically discarding a significant % of the human race based on some moral standard you have, then you are probably setting your standard too high for practical purposes. (think about the point I made earlier, with the health care workers, in that case we simply can't afford to discard them, no matter what your moral stance is) In the end, human nature is just what it is. The pandemic came, and then this anti-vaxx thing just suddenly coalesced basically out of nowhere (the numbers of pre pandemic anti vaxxers was insignificant) and I don't fully know how to make sense of it. I'd like to figure it out

I‘m not discarding anyone though. I recognise that these people are in our society, and aren’t going anywhere.

What I am doing is being deeply critical of their actions, based on the evidence.

If you want to make this a moral question, then fine: my morals dictate to me that people who won’t take a safe and effective vaccine to help others are pretty bloody awful human beings. And I find it incredibly revealing that a majority of them seem to be good ‘god fearing Christians’. What happened to all that religious blather about helping your fellow man?

I understand you’re trying to see both sides of this debate, but I’d invite you to stop, because at some point you have to. I once also gave people the benefit of the doubt, any reasonable person would… but we are waaaaay past the point where reasonableness works. The sensible folk are all jabbed. Now we’re just down to the cranks, selfish idiots, the deluded, the politically immature, and the cowards.

You can just give them a pass and say ‘ah well… human nature’ but how does that help anyone?

How does that help the poor buggers I keep mentioning, who I never forget about?

It doesn’t.

What does, is calling these anti-vax fuckers out, and forcing them to be better people by getting the jab as much as we possibly can.
 
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QSD

Member
Have to express frustration with a person who was irrelevant to my life now likely causing my patients to ask or demand ivermectin, and probably becoming more belligerent again. I haven't been threatened in a few months, but I bet that changes.


I just saw this in the morning: IVM appears to work in some cases because (if I understand it correctly, im not medically trained) it kills parasites that would otherwise be dangerous to you if you are getting some kind of steroid for treating covid. It does not actually do anything for covid itself.
 

QSD

Member
You can just give them a pass and say ‘ah well… human nature’ but how does that help anyone?

How does that help the poor buggers I keep mentioning, who I never forget about?

It doesn’t.

What does, is calling these anti-vax fuckers out, and forcing them to be better people by getting the jab as much as we possibly can.
Dude, this 'calling out' you keep crediting yourself for does nothing good. I don't see anyone being forced to do anything, that is something that only happens in your (admittedly vidid) imagination. All I'm seeing is a self-righteous dude who keeps shutting down conversation by calling people cowards, assholes, selfish while having very little ability to reflect on his own toxic behaviour. It doesn't help anyone, and like I said, if you word it in the way you do you are quite likely to cause people to further entrench themselves eventually leading to more death.
 
I stil maintain there is some level of mind reading going on here, but what the hell, I can't completely discount the possibility that you are capable of telepathy

Anyway the problem with the way you are presenting your argument is that you act as if "how his actions relate to society" is this slam-dunk obvious moral point, and on some level it is, but at the same time in practice people vary wildly in what level of moral responsibility they feel towards society/the vulnerable. It's a bit like arguing about vegetarianism... on some level the vegetarians are simply correct that - all other things being equal - it would be better from a moral standpoint if we didn't slaughter all those cows and chickens. But in practice, people vary wildly in what level of moral responsibility they feel toward animals and their welfare. EDIT: would you be comfortable barring meat eaters from society because their moral framework falls short?

what part is mindreading?

my argument is not a moral one, it is a practical and quantifiable one - if you are anti-vax then you are, by default, pro-lockdown, pro-isolation and pro-societal-restrictions...and if you're not either of those then you're pro-hospitalisations and you're pro-death

this is not a moral argument because it is based in the observed reality of our societies going through the pandemic in the last two years, the idea that any of this is moral is a very basic way of equivalising viewpoints but it's not accurate...we know what happened when we didn't have vaccines, we know what happened recently in Australia and New Zealand when they didn't have vaccines

when a poster comes in and is met with the above argument or stake in the ground, and I'll re-iterate this only once again, that had the majority of people been like them (with 20-30% vaccine uptake) then we'd be effectively back to March 2020 and if they are able to standup, refute and discuss this then I'll be all for it...however, if the above argument short-circuits them like it does with every single one of them that has come in here then I'll just scratch that to another person who only really expects their biases to be confirmed rather than challenged
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Please look up what totalitarian means.

Nobody here is being 'totalitarian' or dictatorial. You, and your 'vaccine hesitant' buddies can freely come into this thread and express your 'vaccine hesitant' views.

But what you can't do is come in here and expect not to be hauled over the coals for having such a dumb ass opinion.

And yes, this is a clear and binary thing at this stage - with all the months that have gone by with us all having to cope with this stupid virus (a time extended by the 'vaccine hesitant'), and all the evidence and information we all have at our fingertips right now that's freely available, that clearly shows how safe and effective the vaccines are.

And here's the binary for you in clear English:

Had the vaccine? Sensible. Intelligent. Correct.

Refused to have the vaccine? Gullible. Selfish. Wrong.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this isn't going to end EVER. Unless people start thinking critically about both the medical and political consequences of all this.

I see where you are coming from, but in my opinion you've reached a point where your fear for the disease has blinded you to the fact that the extremity of the political response has ZERO correlation to the penetration of infection within the general population.

That trend will continue as the pandemic recedes.

The canary in the coalmine is the way that vaccine induced immunity is somehow considered superior to naturally acquired immunity. This flies in the face of scientific fact and there is ample evidence to support this reality. However it gets downplayed both in the media and in legislation for reasons that have nothing to do with public health concerns. Its a pattern you can see played out across many dimensions related to the pandemic where the prevailing narrative is one to socially engineer public response, not to inform.
 

Hardensoul

Member
He put the arrangements in place and got him in touch with the right people and/or paid for the treatment for him.

Didn’t think it was that hard to understand. Bruh.
Yea, he got better so quick and said he wanted to stop before going through whole treatment with ivermectin because he didn’t want to be scrutized for taking “horse dewormer”.

But once he talked to the doctor that was in charge of his treatment, he was told to continue/complete the treatment so that they’ll won’t be a relapse.

Edit: Here is video, I’m not got at paraphrasing.
 
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QSD

Member
Yea, he got better so quick and said he wanted to stop before going through whole treatment with ivermectin because he didn’t want to be scrutized for taking “horse dewormer”.

But once he talked to the doctor that was in charge of his treatment, he was told to continue/complete the treatment so that they’ll won’t be a relapse.

Edit: Here is video, I’m not got at paraphrasing.


I keep seeing that thumbnail and thinking omg he's got a rifle!
 
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