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[Stuart360]

A bit of a silly thing to say when no one has any idea how many consoles both will have available.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Oh it's a never alright.

 

[Vasto]

If Xbox cant not beat Playstation at what?

 

[Topher]

Says more about the audience, really.

Sites depend on clicks for ad revenue. Readers use adblockers. Sites make less money. Readers increasingly ignore good articles in favor of some console warring nonsense, websites cater in order to, you know, put food on the table.

It's a downward spiral, but to claim journalists alone are responsible is wonderfully ignorant.

The audience didn't force this journalist to write a console war article. He chose to. So how is this journalist not responsible for what he writes?

 

[Fredrik]

At this point, isn't it about whoever can make the most consoles available to be purchased wins, regardless of games?

Kinda. PS5 and Xbox Series X is still not available in my country (Sweden). Whatever they ship here gets bought. So the one who ship the most will win a sales numbers battle.

Xbox Series S is sitting on shelves though.

 

[HTK]

They are both gaming companies, believe me they are competing in all sorts of ways.

 

[Stuart360]

I wouldn't even say there's anything remotely special about this holiday.

Halo and Forza. Again.

Nothing wrong with these games but lets be honest how many years previously have they offered the exact same franchises and how did that work out for them?

Forza 3 years ago, and Halo 6 years ago.
I know people like to pretend they are yearly offerings, but they really arent.
I'm also pretty sure Xbox took its fair share of Novembers and Decembers over the years.

 

[Duchess]

I don't believe that MS is interested in beating Sony in hardware sales any more. If they were, they would've made two Xbox Series X consoles: one with a drive and one without, with the latter selling much cheaper than the former.

MS Is now all about building those Game Pass subs. It's understandable. I suspect by 2030, TVs will have Game Pass apps built into them at retail, and could well come with one month free with a purchase, so people can stream whatever they want.

 

[jshackles]

I own a PlayStation 5 as well as a Series X. Anecdotally, my Series X probably gets 90% of my at-home game time. Game Pass is such a huge benefit that it's difficult for me to want to buy PlayStation games. I've bought and played through both Demon's Souls (well, dropped it after 35 hours) and Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart (which was amazing) but for multiplatform games I always choose Xbox, it's just where my library is and I like the interface WAY better.

I know a few people in the office who have asked me "what's the hot gaming item this Christmas" and my response is always "try to find an Xbox Series X if you can - Game Pass is an amazing value. If you can't find one, try to get a PlayStation 5 because 90% of the games are the same on both systems but understand you'll be paying more for games."

That's the thing though - these consoles are STILL selling out online within seconds of going in stock. I've personally never seen one in a retail store, they still seem to be supply constrained. My guess is that both companies will sell 100% of their available stock this Christmas, just like they did last Christmas and just like they've been doing all year.

 

[Captain Toad]

If Xbox doesn't beat PS5 this holiday, it means Sony had more supply - and vice-versa.

These comparisons are pointless until either gets to the point where they can meet demand.

 

[ReBurn]

The author of that article:

 

[IDKFA]

Depends who can get the most stock. Both consoles are still sold out everywhere (I'm not including the S).

Sony are flying PS5 consoles to the UK to get stock for Christmas. Take note Microsoft. I really want a Series X. Give us some more stock!

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Kimahri]

What about other enthusiast hobbies from the traditional magazine industry do you see fuelling such bullshit? The muzzle veolcity of the new AR is less than blah blah blah. In this months carp weekly we compare this lake in France to this one in Spain.

Oh yes, that traditional magazine industry that is doing SO WELL in this day and age.

Gaming magazines are all but dead. Gamers aren't interested enough in the kind of articles other fields of interest might thrive on.

I'm not saying it's a good thing. I'm saying there's a reason shit's at this level.

The audience didn't force this journalist to write a console war article. He chose to. So how is this journalist not responsible for what he writes?

Try to understand what I'm saying before responding.

 

[Zok310]

Never say never. Just look at what happened with the Xbox 360 after they launched kinect.

But yes, it doesnt look good for them so far especially with the pandemic affecting just how many consoles they can produce.

I think the gen wont truly begin until 2023. The PS5's biggest titles are cross gen so it's not like they are that much different than Halo and Forza. Everyone is just sleep walking through this gen. I think Starfield combined with the chip shortage ending would be our first real battle of the gen.

Can’t be compared to 360 gen. Xbox had the following advantages all at once;

1. Year long head start
2. $300 price advantage
3. A mismanaged Sony

In the end all it got them was parity with the PS3 sales by the end of that particular generation.

 

[MikeM]

Xbox doesn’t need to compete directly with PS anymore. Switch is proof that gaming has room for different ways of delivering to consumers.
PS5 to me is the Apple of gaming. The 800lb gorilla that is well established and will likely not be defeated anytime soon. Xbox is smart in finding alternate ways to make up market share while leveraging their cloud tech and subscription models.

 

[SlimySnake]

If Xbox console sales cant outsell PS5 this holiday season, for anything outside of stock challenges then I agree. it never will. It's pretty clear that Microsoft clearly has other plans now. Consoles are just a part of the overall picture and the key focus is services and software sales or more importantly MAU's and engagement.

They want as many eyes as possible on their games and controllers (M&KB) in hands over the traditional unit sale of a boxed product. 4.5million players on a racing game day one is insane and more PLAYERS than nearly all other exclusive games.

They are smashing it with FH5, and this could be the start of something big with Halo following up.

Yep. Forza has shown that people are willing to buy $100 editions even though the game is coming to Gamepass. 4.5 million in a day is insane even if half of those are from gamepass. MS needs to take those numbers and show them to Ubisoft, EA and Activision, and say hey look we have this game on gamepass making incredible revenue while reaching even more players than ever before. Give us your Battlefield, your Ass Creed and maybe even CoD one year.

Just take that chance and see what happens. MS has what 20 million subscribers? Say 5 million of those are $1 subs. Thats still $150 million a month. Almost $2 billion a year. Save most of that for the Battlefields and CoDs of the year and make people an offer they cant refuse.

 

[SlimySnake]

Can’t be compared to 360 gen. Xbox had the following advantages all at once;

1. Year long head start
2. $300 price advantage
3. A mismanaged Sony

In the end all it got them was parity with the PS3 sales by the end of that particular generation.

Not really. They were on par until around 2010 even with a year long start. By the end of 2009, Sony had the Slim and they were the same price. Their big exclusives like Uncharted, GOW, GT7 and KZ were already out by 2010 and Sony was no longer mismanaging anything. But then Kinect launched in 2010 and MS never lost a month to Sony.

 

[Max Payne’s Baretta]

FH5 4.5M shows something else.

Xbox at this stage isnt competing with ps5 anymore. It wants to attract pc players, and combine it with xbox players.

Only console warrior care about it at this stage. Even Sony is doing PC version for their games.

*Deep Inhale* I love the smell of competent big picture takes in the morning.

 

[lachesis]

It's like they are trying to paint MS like Sega on 1995 holiday season...
but we are not in 90's anymore and MS ain't Sega. (but maybe, on one Wednesday...)

Actually, I like having MS on 2nd/3rd place, as they have the deepest pocket than anyone, so are doing some interesting things that nobody could have done.
If MS was king of the hill... then more than likely they played safer game than being aggressive.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Both big bois will sell every unit they can produce, and XSS is also gonna move a lot of units. Weird article.

 

[zaanan]

Amazing how for some of you, Ratchet and Clank simply doesn't exist lmfao.
Both are doing fine and breaking their own records, take the fanboy glasses out of your face. They barely even target the same people anymore.

Do we have any updated sales numbers for Rift? Latest I see is 1.1m in July.
BTW if they can make Ratchet games, they sure as shit could make Resistance games, which sell better.

 

[FrankWza]

I know a few people in the office who have asked me "what's the hot gaming item this Christmas" and my response is always "try to find an Xbox Series X if you can - Game Pass is an amazing value. If you can't find one, try to get a PlayStation 5 because 90% of the games are the same on both systems but understand you'll be paying more for games."

When they buy that xbox and find out they still have to pay for madden, fifa, call of duty and battlefield, do you write them a check or Venmo?

 

[Zok310]

Yep. Forza has shown that people are willing to buy $100 editions even though the game is coming to Gamepass. 4.5 million in a day is insane even if half of those are from gamepass. MS needs to take those numbers and show them to Ubisoft, EA and Activision, and say hey look we have this game on gamepass making incredible revenue while reaching even more players than ever before. Give us your Battlefield, your Ass Creed and maybe even CoD one year.

Just take that chance and see what happens. MS has what 20 million subscribers? Say 5 million of those are $1 subs. Thats still $150 million a month. Almost $2 billion a year. Save most of that for the Battlefields and CoDs of the year and make people an offer they cant refuse.

What can they gain from gp outside of player count? They can have a huge install base on all 3 consoles selling games at $59.99.
GP changes nothing for pubs, it won’t increase their revenue all it would do is take players from one community to the next.

 

[cormack12]

You could also say 'therein lies the problem with everyone expecting everything free on the internet'.

When you used to pay for your news, you bought it and you'd read because you owned it and why not if it sounded kind of interesting. That's mostly dead now and 95% of customers run for the bright, shiny, and free. What would you have them do?

I'm not saying I like it but it seems disingenuous to act as if this is the fault of journalists because most of us would click on articles that didn't have some sizzle (unless the topic was perfectly targeted to our specific interests), it's just that journalists don't write those.

Video games were never part of the discount press though. They were never newspapers, they were always in the glossy magazine sector. The move to internet coupled with the proliferation of politics in games had led to a competition where most writers (and I include the majority of the freelancers here who are paid $20 an article et al), feel they are competing with what were circular dailies and nobodies from social media. In short, they've lost faith in what they were selling. They have an opinion and it needs to be heard.

Other enthusiast hobbies that were in the glossy magazine sector have shrunk their print sector and embraced their communities. That's simply why youtube, twitch and other social media 'personalities' are putting them out of business. You have hundreds of people with patreons etc. who are taking money out of the 'game journalism' sector because again, they are targeting their community (or target market). Most game journalism just tail surfs off what is trending rather than being original content.

People will not subscribe to outlets that just offer opinions or regurgitate what they can read on reddit, gaf or era. That's the battle they have to fight. Journalists break stories, journalists are supposed to have contacts. Even you have more contacts than most of anyone these days at these outlets - and by 'contacts' I don't mean a group of 10 or so employees that want to leverage a journalists agenda with limited scrutiny. Most 'journalists' actually writing video game articles these days do so while looking down on their target readers and generally dishing out shite for issues that are miniscule or based on social media politicking wars. Is it any wonder no one in actual game dev wants to talk to them?

So what are we left with? 4chan rumours, gamingleaks, ITKs posting on sites via third party meetings. The simple fact is most people writing articles are late to the party with breaking conversations and don't have the contacts to generate exclusive content to give their outlet worth. Instead of sitting there and writing maudlin editorials or scrimping together ad revenue from clickbait start actually being journalists. There's enough of you spread across the internet Jaffe. Colin, Sophia, yourself. Jason (though I don't like him, he has sources), Jeff, Yatzee and loads more coudl actually found something that's fucking sorely needed. But it would mean 'working across party lines'. Colin, alone shows the worth of genuine insight from industry professionals.

The answer is not a race to the bottom in my opinion.

Oh yes, that traditional magazine industry that is doing SO WELL in this day and age.

That's my point - they are still afloat with the reduction in circulation and don't need to resort like those examples.

 

[Belthazar]

I'm sorry... But aren't the big Xbox-exclusive games for the next holidays Halo and Forza? I mean, they had those games for long while... What's supposed to have changed to enable those to move the needle in Microsoft's favor?

 

[Stuart360]

Can’t be compared to 360 gen. Xbox had the following advantages all at once;

1. Year long head start
2. $300 price advantage
3. A mismanaged Sony

In the end all it got them was parity with the PS3 sales by the end of that particular generation.

Playstation is more popular worldwide, and it probably always will be.

So yeah thats a bit of a harsh way to look at it. What about looking at them going from 26mil sales with the orig Xbox to 84mil sales with 360.

 

[Topher]

Oh yes, that traditional magazine industry that is doing SO WELL in this day and age.

Gaming magazines are all but dead. Gamers aren't interested enough in the kind of articles other fields of interest might thrive on.

I'm not saying it's a good thing. I'm saying there's a reason shit's at this level.

Try to understand what I'm saying before responding.

Try to understand my counterpoint before getting snarky.

 

[Zok310]

When they buy that xbox and find out they still have to pay for madden, fifa, call of duty and battlefield, do you write them a check or Venmo?

He lied to those people. Best thing to get is a NS. If someone is asking me what to get then they don’t game, no way in hell I would recommend a PS5 or XB to a non dedicated gamer, it would be a waste.
Recommend them a Switch or an Apple Arcade sub.

 

[DeepSpace5D]

I mean, with the supply contraints still in full effect, I don’t think this holiday season is going to be an indicator of anything other than which console was manufactured more.

I have to think that both Xbox and PlayStation will sell as many consoles as they can make this upcoming holiday season.

 

[Zok310]

Playstation is more popular worldwide, and it probably always will be.

So yeah thats a bit of a harsh way to look at it. What about looking at them going from 26mil sales with the orig Xbox to 84mil sales with 360.

That $300 gap in price would cause that upswing in sales for them in addition to the crazy line up that console had.

 

[SlimySnake]

What can they gain from gp outside of player count? They can have a huge install base on all 3 consoles selling games at $59.99.
GP changes nothing for pubs, it won’t increase their revenue all it would do is take players from one community to the next.

MS has to pay them hundreds of millions to get the games on Gamepass. This is happening on Netflix, Disney and Amazon right now. Everyone is paying hundreds of millions for tv shows trying to outbid each other. If EA gets $180 million for Battlefield 2042 thats 3 million sales. Thats typically would they would sell on xbox platforms. For free. They will still sell a million or two copies which would be extra revenue on top of the guaranteed revenue from MS payments.

EA and Ubisoft are already into the subscription model on PC. For $15 a month you can go play Far Cry 6 and Battlefield on day one. They are all in already. If MS gives them enough money, they will take it in heart beat.

 

[Stuart360]

What can they gain from gp outside of player count? They can have a huge install base on all 3 consoles selling games at $59.99.
GP changes nothing for pubs, it won’t increase their revenue all it would do is take players from one community to the next.

Well there is a reason why Gamepass only has standard editions, and no dlc and MTX included.
MTX made up something like 70% of gaming revenue last year, and with Gamepass users not having to fork out $60 for every game, i would guess a lot of them would be more than willing to spend on MTX and expansions.
Thats why i think if we ever get leaks of how much Microsoft are paying to get games on Gamepass (like the Epic leaks) i'm certain we will find that Microsoft are paying a lot less than people think. I mean look at EA with EA Access, they couldnt wait to get it on Gamepass for that very reason imo.

 

[FrankWza]

He lied to those people. Best thing to get is a NS. If someone is asking me what to get then they don’t game, no way in hell I would recommend a PS5 or XB to a non dedicated gamer, it would be a waste.
Recommend them a Switch or an Apple Arcade sub.

I wouldn’t go this far. The amount of games you play doesn’t determine your dedication to gaming. Some people only play 1 or 2 games and they play with their friends. That’s how it’s always been for a lot of people. So they may prefer a dedicated gaming platform and not play a bunch of games.

 

[jshackles]

When they buy that xbox and find out they still have to pay for madden, fifa, call of duty and battlefield, do you write them a check or Venmo?

It's almost like rational adults are rational adults and can understand and process what they're actually buying. When first party games on PS5 cost $70, but are only $60 on Xbox (or $10/month) then it doesn't take a genius to know which console you'll likely pay more for in the long run. 3rd party games have all seemed to land on the previous $60 price point anyway so those are a complete wash.

Besides, Madden and FIFA are both on Game Pass. Also - nobody is going to give me shit like "hur dur, I thought Call of Duty would be free". Do you socialize with braindead people regularly?

 

[Zok310]

Not really. They were on par until around 2010 even with a year long start. By the end of 2009, Sony had the Slim and they were the same price. Their big exclusives like Uncharted, GOW, GT7 and KZ were already out by 2010 and Sony was no longer mismanaging anything. But then Kinect launched in 2010 and MS never lost a month to Sony.

MS has to pay them hundreds of millions to get the games on Gamepass. This is happening on Netflix, Disney and Amazon right now. Everyone is paying hundreds of millions for tv shows trying to outbid each other. If EA gets $180 million for Battlefield 2042 thats 3 million sales. Thats typically would they would sell on xbox platforms. For free. They will still sell a million or two copies which would be extra revenue on top of the guaranteed revenue from MS payments.

EA and Ubisoft are already into the subscription model on PC. For $15 a month you can go play Far Cry 6 and Battlefield on day one. They are all in already. If MS gives them enough money, they will take it in heart beat.

MS is not paying hundreds of millions to no pub to put games in game pass. A few million up front, but now way they paying hundred of millions to get a non exclusive game into game pass.

 

[Clear]

And where were you the past year criticizing Spiderman MM, R&C and Demons Souls came out for PS5, which are also more of the same kinds of games from the same franchises? One is even a remaster of a PS3 game.

Just stop. This is the 5th Forza Horizon since 2012, and in addition to that there have been what 7 numbered entries to date in the parent Forza Motorsport franchise! Halo Infinite , looking on the wiki page is the 16th release from the franchise to date!

There is no meaningful comparison with the games you cited.

My point isn't the quality of these games, or any limitation of their sales potential. Its simply that these things were/are completely expected from Xbox.

Who's going to be surprised in the slightest by the prospect of a new Halo or Forza at this point? And that being the case why should anyone already familiar with these franchises decide to jump in now, as opposed to any of the numerous occasions in the past?

How do you grow marketshare by selling the same stuff over and over? Its a classic case of preaching to the choir!

 

[MOTM]

People say pc day 1 release doesn’t eat into hardware sales but i will never believe that. So many people are playing forza on pc right now

Who the hell cares about HW sales when you make exactly 0 dollars off of console sales? In the past manufacturers even lost money on every console sold.

The goal is to push as much software as possible. That's why MS and Sony put their games on PC - and why Gaf members don't run multi billion corporations.

 

[twilo99]

Games don't matter.. xbox can have the best games for a 5 years straight and it won't make a difference.

its all about mindshare and marketing.

It would take a huge blunder from Sony for things to change, which is not going to happen.

Enjoy the games and don't worry about it.

 

[saintjules]

Even admits it in the first sentence. Trolling at it's finest?

 

[SlimySnake]

MS is not paying hundreds of millions to no pub to put games in game pass. A few million up front, but now way they paying hundred of millions to get a non exclusive game into game pass.

Thats what I am saying. They NEED to give hundreds of millions to move the needle. That is the best way they can differentiate themselves and give players a reason to switch.

 

[ManaByte]

Xbox announces 4.5 million people playing FH5 on day 1.

VG247 writer:

 

[MOTM]

How do you grow marketshare by selling the same stuff over and over? Its a classic case of preaching to the choir!

What are you talking about? Revenue has been growing non stop yearly, every quarter is a new record quarter.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Elder Scrolls 6 hype is gonna be insane. Skyrim was a fucking event when it launched. I don’t think this is their last chance to win a holiday season at all lol.

 

[FrankWza]

It's almost like rational adults are rational adults and can understand and process what they're actually buying. When first party games on PS5 cost $70, but are only $60 on Xbox (or $10/month) then it doesn't take a genius to know which console you'll likely pay more for in the long run. 3rd party games have all seemed to land on the previous $60 price point anyway so those are a complete wash.

Besides, Madden and FIFA are both on Game Pass. Also - nobody is going to give me shit like "hur dur, I thought Call of Duty would be free". Do you socialize with braindead people regularly?

If you ask someone a question because you believe them to be knowledgeable and they completely misinform you, you’re just supposed to shrug your shoulders and say ok? That’s the brain dead person.

 

[ParaSeoul]

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

I wouldn't even say there's anything remotely special about this holiday.

Halo and Forza. Again.

Nothing wrong with these games but lets be honest how many years previously have they offered the exact same franchises and how did that work out for them?

This.

I don't think any reasonably minded person expected MS to beat Sony in the console gaming business. They're just too far behind.

I think they'll do a much better job catching up from last gen and that's good enough. Everyone wins.

 

[kyoji]

at the risk of being banned again for sharing an opinion: i think Xbox is kicking ass. This year we got Flight Sim. Forza Horizon 5 came out which is doing well. Halo is out next month.

I'm not seeing anything from Playstation that can compete with Xbox games. The big Playstation (not exclusively 5) are not out until next year or beyond such as Forbidden West, God of War, Gran Turismo.

And playstation fanboys are supposively the worse? Lmfao. I dont think your first sentence provides immunity from the sticky.

also ratio, its fine to have an opinion but there are many who would disagree with your hyperbole 2nd paragraph, hope it was worth it though lol.

 

[Clear]

What are you talking about? Revenue has been growing non stop yearly, every quarter is a new record quarter.

Yeah and inflation is a constant, hence revenue is a certainty to rise over time!

Christ sake guys, how hard is it to grasp that selling stuff to people who already have proven they like you stuff you sell is not some genius business strategy?

Stop looking for insult from me and start demanding more from Phil and company.

 

[CrimsonSquall]

at the risk of being banned again for sharing an opinion: i think Xbox is kicking ass. This year we got Flight Sim. Forza Horizon 5 came out which is doing well. Halo is out next month.

I'm not seeing anything from Playstation that can compete with Xbox games. The big Playstation (not exclusively 5) are not out until next year or beyond such as Forbidden West, God of War, Gran Turismo.

Ratchet Returnal Deathloop Demon’s Souls. All dropped already. Xbox is just now attempting to catchup NOW, you fail to recognize this