Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I do hope more people get vaccinated. There's enough unnecessary pain and suffering going around in the world as it is.
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QSD
Member
Do you know how does 6.1 deaths per 100.000 cases stack up against other common ailments such as pneumonia, bladder infection, shingles etc? Or is the problem more with the infectiousness, less with the mortality?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
edit: it should be noted that this data is for the whole year. The tweet is talking about the average per capita mortality per week, which makes the comparison all that more stark.
Dividing 1.5 by 52 weeks in a year gives an average per capita death rate of 0.03 deaths per week, compared to the 6.1 per week for COVID.
In 2019, the deaths per capita in the USA due to the flu was 1.5 for the year. Deaths per capita due to pneumonia was 10.8.
It's both. Compared to the flu, it's more likely to spread and more likely to kill you if you get it.
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Yeah doesn't make sense to not use newer methods that can also identify influenza strains. And especially with the new variant hopefully the new method can differentiate Omicron from Delta.
Edit: I'm guessing the highlighting is by some moron who doesn't understand how PCR works.
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QSD
Member
So is this 10.8 'deaths per capita' the same figure as the 6.1 figure for covid unvaxxed? Cause if so it would seem pneumonia is more dangerous (but probably much harder contract?)
Hmmm, well there was a news story the other day about a new vaccination "novavax" getting approved here in the Netherlands, which isn't mRNA based so maybe that will convince a few hold-outs.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
Nick Christakis said if you’re hospitalized with COVID you’re more likely to die than if you were hospitalized with a heart attack. Not sure if those numbers included vaccinated people or not.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Actually I was in error. The tweet was referencing COVID deaths per 100,000 per week. The flu statistic I put up was flu deaths per 100,000 per year.
Here is a better apples to apples comparison:
Provisional Death Counts for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
National Center for Health Statistics
www.cdc.gov
If you want to see the flu numbers from previous years, here they are too. I'm using influenza (J09-J11) to ID the deaths in both charts.
The exact numbers for flu deaths for 2020 don't match up exactly, but I assume that has to do with some sort of database update or perhaps I just messed up the tags when I queried the flu data from https://wonder.cdc.gov/ The key takeaway is that COVID deaths far surpass flu deaths in a "normal" year.
You'll also see different numbers depending on which part of the CDC website you look at due to differences in how they calculate things. For example, if you go here, you'll see estimated deaths for the 2019-2020 flu season to be at 20,342, which is quite a bit different, but they explain why
Estimated Influenza-Related Illnesses, Medical Visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2019–2020 Influenza Season | CDC
CDC calculates estimates of disease burden in the United States using surveillance data and modeling to adjust for sources of under-detection. Burden estimates for the 2018-2019 season found here.
www.cdc.gov
Why CDC Estimates the Burden of Season Influenza in the U.S. | CDC
Links to key resources on the burden of influenza - CDC
www.cdc.gov
How CDC Estimates the Burden of Seasonal Influenza in the U.S. | CDC
Links to key resources on the burden of influenza - CDC
www.cdc.gov
arkhamguy123
Member
Am I dense? What does this entail?
funkygunther
Banned
just some hearsay that doesn’t mean anything without a source, cohort context or even disparity numbers…who even is “you’re”?
Mortality Among US Patients Hospitalized With SARS-CoV-2 Infection in 2020
This cohort study evaluates trends in in-hospital mortality among patients who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2.
jamanetwork.com
Mortality after hospital admission for heart failure: improvement over time, equally strong in women as in men - BMC Public Health
Background To assess the trend in age- and sex-stratified mortality after hospitalization for heart failure (HF) in the Netherlands. Methods Two nationwide cohorts of patients, hospitalized for new onset heart failure between 01.01.2000–31.12.2002 and between 01.01.2008–31.12.2010, were...
bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com
10-20% vs 13-66% for heart attacks
QSD
Member
I mean, it's not that crazy if you consider that things have to be pretty bad for you to get hospitalized with covid and there are few effective treatments. If you get hospitalized with a heart attack (i.e. they get to you before you die) there is a lot they can do to help you.
arkhamguy123
Member
Yeah me.
QSD
Member
So what I'm getting from all this is that pneumonia is nearly as dangerous as Covid. But it's complicated because pneumonia can also be a downstream consequence of flu. Either way it's in the same ballpark. Flu deaths are much lower, but perhaps underreported (although I imagine this won't change the figure several orders of magnitude.Actually I was in error. The tweet was referencing COVID deaths per 100,000 per week. The flu statistic I put up was flu deaths per 100,000 per year.
Here is a better apples to apples comparison:
Provisional Death Counts for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
National Center for Health Statistics
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
Take it up with him.just relaying what I heard.just some hearsay that doesn’t mean anything without a source, cohort context or even disparity numbers…who even is “you’re”?
Mortality Among US Patients Hospitalized With SARS-CoV-2 Infection in 2020
This cohort study evaluates trends in in-hospital mortality among patients who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2.Mortality after hospital admission for heart failure: improvement over time, equally strong in women as in men - BMC Public Health
Background To assess the trend in age- and sex-stratified mortality after hospitalization for heart failure (HF) in the Netherlands. Methods Two nationwide cohorts of patients, hospitalized for new onset heart failure between 01.01.2000–31.12.2002 and between 01.01.2008–31.12.2010, were...
10-20% vs 13-66% for heart attacks
funkygunther
Banned
He's not here, and until he is I'll take it up with whoever sees fit to relay their messages
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
You can't really separate the two like that since they're both intertwined. Many COVID deaths are caused because COVID caused pneumonia in the patient. One of the reasons COVID19 is so deadly is because of its propensity to cause severe pneumonia in its victims. There's also many other causes of pneumonia in the world besides the flu and COVID19.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
Lol well you can but you’re just wasting your time as I’m not gonna give you what you’re looking for.
funkygunther
Banned
I’m not looking for anything more mate, I’ve already said all I need to on the content you decided to share
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FunkMiller
Gold Member
Bloody loads of them. Pneumonia is basically any infection of the lung. Bacteria, viruses, fungi, foreign objects… a million and one things can cause it.
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DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
You asked who "you're" was and unless that was rhetorical, I'm trying to tell you that I don't have the answer to that question because it isn't my data and you should ask him.
funkygunther
Banned
it apparently was rhetorical because you obviously have absolutely no interest in following up on your post
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I don't have the data or know where he got it from. He said it on a podcast with Sam Harris. So I'm not sure how I'm supposed to follow it up with information I don't have access to.
funkygunther
Banned
and I had no idea what else you know or had heard or worked out when I initially replied, so while I would have preferred it to not have been a rhetorical question it’s turned out as good as one, no big deal
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CDC test can’t differentiate between COVID and the flu? That’s wrong. - Poynter
While the CDC is withdrawing its EUA request for the 2019-nCoV RT-PCR test, it is not because the test is faulty.
www.poynter.org
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
As ever, it's the two numbers multiplied together... The death rate times the infection rate.
I am not sure why this concept is so really challenging for people. I think American culture is so individualistic that people have trouble thinking past "What are MY odds if I get it," and have trouble imagining the public health as a concept.
This is also a lot of the problem with Americans understanding of nearly every issue.
Pneumonia is not a disease, it's a symptom. Pneumonia is caused by severe Covid, among other diseases.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
arkhamguy123
Member
American, not sure the case worldwide, but can safely say most people, especially in the south, are exceedingly dumb.
MisterFalcon
Member
Getting boosted the 31st so the unvaccinated all get infected less quickly and we may get to enjoy life a bit. Thanks guys !
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
True. This is why case numbers matter. Even if there is a less amount of severe outcomes going forward because of increased immunity from vaccination or prior infection, better therapeutics, or new variants being intrinsically less deadly, a number of those positive cases are going to be people in mission critical jobs like healthcare. The more of these people need to wait on the sidelines, the more our society and way of life suffers.
TheFarter
Banned
I wasn't complaining. I was giving words of wisdom. He shouldn't waste his time.
Malakhov
Banned
My kids arrived yesterday home for christmas, ex-wife calls me today, says she got covid. She had a runny nose this morning and did a quick test home and it turned positive, only people she saw last week was her family, all vaccinated, great.
Sooooo I test both the kids and myself tonight, both the kids are positive with the home tests, I am negative so far. Now's the time to see if I'll get it this week, Im off 2 weeks with them at home, and I have no intention to isolate them from me nor change any of our routine.
Let's see how this shit goes lol
Sooooo I test both the kids and myself tonight, both the kids are positive with the home tests, I am negative so far. Now's the time to see if I'll get it this week, Im off 2 weeks with them at home, and I have no intention to isolate them from me nor change any of our routine.
Let's see how this shit goes lol
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
As long as you're vaccinated, even if you do contract it, you'll most likely only experience mild, cold like symptoms. Your kids, unvaccinated or not, will probably be fine. If they're vaccinated, they'll probably clear the infection even faster. The responsible thing to do would be to make sure none of you are exposing other people during your infectious period.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
DeaDPo0L84
Member
They must have the other strain that goes by the name "mind-virus", unfortunately their is no vaccine for it.
Been seeing a couple of articles making this point, specifically re: NYC. Is there any corroboration of this from other US cities or other nations? Any theories yet on why this would be the case? I don't recall hearing anything about a marked increase in child hospitalizations due to Omicron in SA or the UK, which is why I ask.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Did you read it all in detail yet? Did it change your mind?
Thank you for the link and I listened to what he had to say.Ok I'll listen to both, and I've quickly Googled to find the guy "Nagase", I was almost right... here's a video for you since you said I should start listening.
WATCH: BC Doctor reviews ‘shocking’ stats from released Pfizer documents
Doctor Daniel Nagase sheds some light on concerning findings from the recently released safety data on Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine.westernstandardonline.com
He is doing the same thing to this report that others do with the VAERS data. Just because some adverse event happened during the trial period doesn't mean that it was caused by the vaccine. During the trial, do we lock up the participants in a controlled environment? No. They go about living their lives, doing other behaviors that might entail risk, and they also bring with them all of their pre-existing conditions that they already had. Just because 27% of pregnant women had a serious event during the trial period doesn't mean that it's solely the fault of the vaccine.
Nagase has claimed that stillbirths in Canada increased due to the vaccine, but that is not true at all. He's making shit up. If the vaccine really was that harmful to pregnant mothers, with the millions of doses we've administered already, we'd already be seeing the tragic consequences. But we don't. Because it isn't true.
Stillbirth rates not increasing in the region according to hospital officials
Patients are encouraged to ask questions to their healthcare providers should they have concerns
kitchener.citynews.ca
Around 10 minutes in, he talks about shedding into breastmilk, and he says this is proof, but it is not proof and he doesn't know how to interpret this data properly.
Around 11:40 he talks about the "theoretical risks" of injecting RNA into a person. Scaremongering. We already know the method of action the mRNA vaccines take, and what it does specifically, and we already know through both clinical trials and actual widespread global use that it is safe in practice. He tries to use an appeal to authority "as a scientist", but this is useless when millions of other doctors with better credentials than his say that the vaccine is safe.
He talks about the failure of vaccines at around 12 minutes due to waning protection against variants, but that is misleading. The vaccines' main goal is to stop severe illness and death, which is what it overwhelmingly does. It still does offer some protection against variants, and the infection prevention effect wanes after a few months, (which is normal), but that can be overcome with a booster.
12:30 he talks about the trial data showing the vaccines are unsafe, but again he is demonstrating his ignorance in how he doesn't know how to interpret trial data.
"after a new substance is introduced to the human species, any adverse event can be attributed to that substance" lol no. Very flawed logic.
He then goes to talk about more dangers of the vaccine and political corruption and all that.
My verdict? He doesn't know how to separate correlation from causation, and doesn't know how to read and interpret trial data. He spreads false information about stillbirths, and fear that is undue.
Upon further looking into him, apparently he got reprimanded for treating patients with ivermectin obtained from an agricultural source. If he thinks ivermectin works but vaccines don't, then that is a very big red flag into his ability to interpret clinical data, and he should go back to school
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
COVID Data Tracker Weekly Review
The week’s key data, narrative interpretations, & visualizations.
Because that age group can't get vaccinated yet is one of the most obvious implications.
The point isn't about an overall rise in child hospitalizations, it's how that most of them are from the very young age group. In the UK, most of the hospitalizations in the age 0 to 14 range are from 0-4 years old.
Obviously, but they also weren’t vaccinated against alpha, beta or delta, yet this strain seems to be causing greater hospitalization for children than previous variants - that was my point. My question is whether there are any theories (biochemically) as to why that might be. Like, say, something about the highly mutated nature of the spike protein in Omicron which allows it to better overcome children’s super robust general immunity.
Chittagong
Gold Member
If we look at the symptoms for a clue, Omicron seems to be more an upper respiratory tract virus rather than a pneumonia inducing virus. It multiplies 70x more in the nose and throat, ostensibly causing loads of more mucus.
Young kids have tiny respiratory tracts and are not yet very proficient in clearing them.
That would be my guess.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
We don't know if it's because of the strain, or if it's because more people in general are being infected, or if it's something else. We would need more data. There's only so much the hospitalization graph can tell us.
COVID Data Tracker
CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.
covid.cdc.gov
If you could see what the infection rate is in the past, and cross reference that with the hospitalization rate, than you can determine if the hospitalization rate changes along with the variants, but I don't have that data. And even if we did have that data, there are still other variables at play too that can confound the analysis.
I have no idea. I don't really see why that would be the case, and until there's a plausible theory put forward, the most reasonable explanation would be to me, that it's because there's more virus circulating in the population, which means more kids get infected, thus more kids go to the hospital, especially the ones who aren't vaccinated yet.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
No. This hasn't been proven (yet). I assume you're referencing the Hong Kong study.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
My holiday plans got ruined because my brother (much younger, still lives at home) got Covid. He's doing okay, he was vaccinated but not boosted so it was like a flu for a.few days. No one else in the house got sick.
My mom got it too, she has been trying to fend off the virus with alternative grains, and it turns out that doesn't work, so she was in pretty bad shape for a couple weeks.
Schools going remote again. They say for two weeks but we're worried it will be longer. Omicron is crazy the spike we are getting is more than double our highest daily case rate from the earlier waves and no signs of slowing down.
My mom got it too, she has been trying to fend off the virus with alternative grains, and it turns out that doesn't work, so she was in pretty bad shape for a couple weeks.
Schools going remote again. They say for two weeks but we're worried it will be longer. Omicron is crazy the spike we are getting is more than double our highest daily case rate from the earlier waves and no signs of slowing down.
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