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[Mister Wolf]

I just got a VRR update for my 900H but haven’t installed it yet. I will soon. Any good games to test it with on xbox?

Elden Ring, Tales Of Arise, or Mass Effect Trilogy.

 

[DenchDeckard]

this nails the VRR misconception. You see flicker in loading screens where the framerate is completely erratic Due to huge jumps from data streaming but it is pretty much imperceptible in gameplay.

 

[Rubik8]

That’s how it’s designed to work. You activate VRR under the input section and has nothing to do with picture settings. Look at the video posted from Vincent. He shows you where the option is located.

Thank you that was a helpful video. Now I know how to toggle VRR on/off for various hdmi ports. But my problem persists that since the update I can’t access picture settings. The button does nothing where I used to have a pop up that allowed me to adjust color temp, motionflow, etc. Anyone else having this problem?

 

[01011001]

I just got a VRR update for my 900H but haven’t installed it yet. I will soon. Any good games to test it with on xbox?

depends. how low does the VRR window go? if your console is set to 120hz that is less of an issue but at 60hz it can be one.

if you are running the console at 120hz or if that TV can go below 48hz down to around 40hz, then Elden Ring will literally be transformative.

also Resident Evil 8 in raytracing mode feels basically 100% smooth with VRR even tho the framerate can dip into the low 50s in a bunch of scenes.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Why. 1440p was just transition resolution.
Are you playing on a shitty 1440p monitor? It is most likely able to accept and downscale 4k signal

I'm really starting to believe you don't like pc gaming. I've had to check you several times when it comes to visuals or audio. Come on man. 1440p is literally the sweet spot in gaming all around. Fuck 4K until we can have the hardware to run it at acceptable framerates.

 

[rofif]

I'm really starting to believe you don't like pc gaming. I've had to check you several times when it comes to visuals or audio. Come on man. 1440p is literally the sweet spot in gaming all around. Fuck 4K until we can have the hardware to run it at acceptable framerates.

I've used 4k over 10 years ago for dowsamplig. I've missed the whole 1440p train.
I did had 1440p 144hz ips monitor (like 3 of them) but I was not impressed. 240hz 1080p or 4k60 was always more impressive.
You are right - it is objective sweetspot but it's kinda crappy... 4k is very nice nowadays since you can use dlss to start with 1440p->4k and get much better image quality while having all the UI and 2d elements at 4k.
And for games that dont support TAA or dlss, 1440p is a bit crappy.

The highlighted part of your answer... WE DO have acceptable framerates. I am using 4k for like 5 years now. Been using as downsampling before.
If you want 4k120, you can lower some settings or get 3080. No game runs slow on it

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Thank you that was a helpful video. Now I know how to toggle VRR on/off for various hdmi ports. But my problem persists that since the update I can’t access picture settings. The button does nothing where I used to have a pop up that allowed me to adjust color temp, motionflow, etc. Anyone else having this problem?

For the input where VRR is selected it gets locked to gaming mode so you can’t change picture settings. Because VRR is a Gaming only feature and makes no sense for anything else. I just updated my TV , I’ll check if anything changed for me and report later.

 

[Rubik8]

For the input where VRR is selected it gets locked to gaming mode so you can’t change picture settings. Because VRR is a Gaming only feature and makes no sense for anything else. I just updated my TV , I’ll check if anything changed for me and report later.

I considered that. The options don’t work on any hdmi input or even when not using any input (just the smart tv features). This is a 65A80CJ (Costco model)

 

[FrankWza]

I don't see the rationale of anyone arguing *against* VRR, but if there are those people then they are outliers. Most of us understand the benefit of VRR. However, it is a feature that has been needed more with XSX than PS5 as PS5 has typically had more stable frame rates. I don't think PS5 owners are going to see some massive shift once VRR comes except in specific games like Greedfall where there has been noticeable screen tearing. Either way, Sony needs get off their ass and get this done like they promised they would.

It’s a made up narrative. If anything, we’ll now see the developers just bump up PS5 resolution since they will have a VRR crutch. Before, they prioritized performance.

 

[OverHeat]

I've used 4k over 10 years ago for dowsamplig. I've missed the whole 1440p train.
I did had 1440p 144hz ips monitor (like 3 of them) but I was not impressed. 240hz 1080p or 4k60 was always more impressive.
You are right - it is objective sweetspot but it's kinda crappy... 4k is very nice nowadays since you can use dlss to start with 1440p->4k and get much better image quality while having all the UI and 2d elements at 4k.
And for games that dont support TAA or dlss, 1440p is a bit crappy.

The highlighted part of your answer... WE DO have acceptable framerates. I am using 4k for like 5 years now. Been using as downsampling before.
If you want 4k120, you can lower some settings or get 3080. No game runs slow on it

I have a 3090 and I find that at 4K game like cyberpunk only go to 90-60 fps in general

 

[rofif]

I have a 3090 and I find that at 4K game like cyberpunk only go to 90-60 fps in general

cyberpunk is very demanding.
Without dlss, I get like 20fps
maxed out, with balanced dlss around 60.
But most other games are great playing.
3080 or 3090 and playing 1440p only is leaving performance on the table. Even image quality of 4k dlss is better than native 1440p... or even better than native 4k in some rare cases

 

[OverHeat]

cyberpunk is very demanding.
Without dlss, I get like 20fps
maxed out, with balanced dlss around 60.
But most other games are great playing.
3080 or 3090 and playing 1440p only is leaving performance on the table. Even image quality of 4k dlss is better than native 1440p... or even better than native 4k in some rare cases

I have an ultrawide 38 inch 3840*1600 at 144hz and a 27 1440p 240hz monitor and both look almost the same for image quality do to size difference.

 

[JackMcGunns]

You need to read some reviews. The A80J does indeed have the (slight) edge in picture quality over the C1. That’s a commonly understood conclusion.

I have also compared them side by side when I bought both.

You're right, the A80J does have a slight edge, but it doesn't make up for the gaming advantage if you mostly game on it. I would say if you mostly watch movies and do very little gaming, then go for the A80J, but for me I need 2 ports with HDMI 2.1 for XSX and PS5 and another for the ARC and the least input lag possible.

PQ for the C1 in Game mode is better too. So with speedier inputs, more HDMI 2.1 ports and better PQ for gaming, the C1 is the best choice for gamers.

 

[wvnative]

Can someone explain to me why VRR disables local dimming on my X95J?

 

[Gamerguy84]

I've used 4k over 10 years ago for dowsamplig. I've missed the whole 1440p train.
I did had 1440p 144hz ips monitor (like 3 of them) but I was not impressed. 240hz 1080p or 4k60 was always more impressive.
You are right - it is objective sweetspot but it's kinda crappy... 4k is very nice nowadays since you can use dlss to start with 1440p->4k and get much better image quality while having all the UI and 2d elements at 4k.
And for games that dont support TAA or dlss, 1440p is a bit crappy.

The highlighted part of your answer... WE DO have acceptable framerates. I am using 4k for like 5 years now. Been using as downsampling before.
If you want 4k120, you can lower some settings or get 3080. No game runs slow on it

 

[Metnut]

I have an X90J TV and a PS5.

Can someone explain like I’m 5 how this will impact me? Is it going to make Elden Ring and Horizon run better?

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

I have an X90J TV and a PS5.

Can someone explain like I’m 5 how this will impact me? Is it going to make Elden Ring and Horizon run better?

Dude It won't help you until there's a firmware update for the PS5.

 

[HellgateLondon1908]

I have an X90J TV and a PS5.

Can someone explain like I’m 5 how this will impact me? Is it going to make Elden Ring and Horizon run better?

If PS5 enable VRR support in the OS yes Elden Ring fps drops will be smoothed out and your gameplay experience will be much better.As for Horizon you won't see much of a difference because the framerate is pretty much locked 60 fps.

 

[ethomaz]

Hmm, maybe I should use my beta code.

Or you can give it to me

 

[Kilau]

Or you can give it to me

Sure, I'll PM you.

 

[ethomaz]

Sure, I'll PM you.

Just love is not enough.. I signed several times for that link and never saw that mail in my mailbox.
I will report back late if ALLM is there.

 

[omegasc]

I have an X90J TV and a PS5.

Can someone explain like I’m 5 how this will impact me? Is it going to make Elden Ring and Horizon run better?

Let me try: VRR works on the perception of movement. Basically it avoids displaying a frame more than once or discarding a frame before the screen can draw it. In both cases the fluidity of movement would be broken and you would notice it as stutter. It does not insert extra frames.
Also, by synchronizing the GPU with the display refresh rate, it avoids tearing, which is the display getting new frames from the GPU while it is still drawing, so it would start working on the newly received data, splitting the image between two or more different frames in the same canvas.
The effect of VRR is broken if you have too erratic framerate, though, as even though it would display frames properly, your eyes would be able to notice "something is wrong".

Both games would benefit a lot from VRR. You would notice less framedrops if at all.
Let me know if that helped LOL

 

[omegasc]

Just love is not enough.. I signed several times for that link and never saw that mail in my mailbox.
I will report back late if ALLM is there.

ALLM is enabled. LG C9 reports "Instant Game Mode Enabled" with the beta. VRR is not yet enabled, apparently.

 

[Jose92]

this nails the VRR misconception. You see flicker in loading screens where the framerate is completely erratic Due to huge jumps from data streaming but it is pretty much imperceptible in gameplay.

It is an OLED display problem more than a VRR because the gamma curve changes with the refresh rate.

"Gamma for OLED is optimized and fixed for 120Hz by establishing a fixed charging time for OLED sub-pixels. VRR is used when the frame rate is less than 120 Hz. When the OLED TV uses framerates less than 120Hz, the gamma curve is inconsistent with the frame rate. For example, a 40Hz frame rate is longer than 120Hz frame rate. Therefore, the lower frame rates results in sub pixels that are overcharged, causing flickering of dark gray images, which is noticeable for dark images rather than bright ones, because human eyes are more sensitive to low gray colors. LGD will likely solve this problem establishing multiple gamma curves optimized for lower frame rates."

 

[omegasc]

It is an OLED display problem more than a VRR because the gamma curve changes with the refresh rate. "Gamma for OLED is optimized and fixed for 120Hz by establishing a fixed charging time for OLED sub-pixels. VRR is used when the frame rate is less than 120 Hz. When the OLED TV uses framerates less than 120Hz, the gamma curve is inconsistent with the frame rate. For example, a 40Hz frame rate is longer than 120Hz frame rate. Therefore, the lower frame rates results in sub pixels that are overcharged, causing flickering of dark gray images, which is noticeable for dark images rather than bright ones, because human eyes are more sensitive to low gray colors. LGD will likely solve this problem establishing multiple gamma curves optimized for lower frame rates."

In the recent firmware update the C9 got a new option to fine tune and mitigate this effect. CX probably got it earlier.


I can't stress enough how imperceptible this is while gaming. I basically only notice it in dark loading screens. I won't say it is a non issue, but this is blown out of proportion, IMO.

 

[Tygeezy]

In the recent firmware update the C9 got a new option to fine tune and mitigate this effect. CX probably got it earlier.


I can't stress enough how imperceptible this is while gaming. I basically only notice it in dark loading screens. I won't say it is a non issue, but this is blown out of proportion, IMO.

Indeed, you have to go out of your way to look for it in most circumstances. Find a game with erratic frametimes and then go into a dark corner and zoom in with your gun or something and you might be able to trip it up. this is an issue on lcds with gsync modules too; it's just easier to notice on oleds.

 

[VanCityGamer]

You're right, the A80J does have a slight edge, but it doesn't make up for the gaming advantage if you mostly game on it. I would say if you mostly watch movies and do very little gaming, then go for the A80J, but for me I need 2 ports with HDMI 2.1 for XSX and PS5 and another for the ARC and the least input lag possible.

PQ for the C1 in Game mode is better too. So with speedier inputs, more HDMI 2.1 ports and better PQ for gaming, the C1 is the best choice for gamers.

That’s a fair enough assessment, but I game lots (in addition to watching TV and movies) and would still choose the A80J. I think the brighter HDR highlights, greater shadow detail, and sharper image look better in games too. I also own a Series X and PS5. I personally have no need for additional HDMI 2.1 ports and have not noticed any lag. But I can see why that would be important for other people.

 

[DenchDeckard]

In the recent firmware update the C9 got a new option to fine tune and mitigate this effect. CX probably got it earlier.


I can't stress enough how imperceptible this is while gaming. I basically only notice it in dark loading screens. I won't say it is a non issue, but this is blown out of proportion, IMO.

this so much but the narrative has already been made by people trying to discredit VRR.

 

[Panajev2001a]

this so much but the narrative has already been made by people trying to discredit VRR.

LG made official statements about the panel because mean console warriors wanted to discredit the saviour VRR which increases framerate? Come on .

 

[Panajev2001a]

It is an OLED display problem more than a VRR because the gamma curve changes with the refresh rate.

"Gamma for OLED is optimized and fixed for 120Hz by establishing a fixed charging time for OLED sub-pixels. VRR is used when the frame rate is less than 120 Hz. When the OLED TV uses framerates less than 120Hz, the gamma curve is inconsistent with the frame rate. For example, a 40Hz frame rate is longer than 120Hz frame rate. Therefore, the lower frame rates results in sub pixels that are overcharged, causing flickering of dark gray images, which is noticeable for dark images rather than bright ones, because human eyes are more sensitive to low gray colors. LGD will likely solve this problem establishing multiple gamma curves optimized for lower frame rates."

Thanks for linking to this.

 

[ethomaz]

LG made official statements about the panel because mean console warriors wanted to discredit the saviour VRR which increases framerate? Come on .

I can't even understand where these guys are pop'ing.
I have a CX and the LG didn't fix the game issue they put a slider to you try to hide the issue... and it makes the IQ get worst.
Imagine these shit workaround... well LG did that.

Basically LG won't fix it... probably because needs a panel revision that will come only in future.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Indeed, you have to go out of your way to look for it in most circumstances. Find a game with erratic frametimes and then go into a dark corner and zoom in with your gun or something and you might be able to trip it up. this is an issue on lcds with gsync modules too; it's just easier to notice on oleds.

Yup.

LG made official statements about the panel because mean console warriors wanted to discredit the saviour VRR which increases framerate? Come on .

No, I’m saying it’s blown out of proportion by people who don’t even use it day to day. Like everything on the internet it’s a massive exaggeration. Yes you can see it, on completely black screens and usually only in loading screens. 95 percent of game time it’s completely unnoticeable. I use it every single day and I have sensitive as shit eyes.

I can even see it on my rog swift with a G sync module, but again it’s only on loading screens and a very slight flicker in contrast as the game loads.

of course LG had to make a statement they can’t just not respond to their customers comments And questions.

 

[Tygeezy]

Yup.

No, I’m saying it’s blown out of proportion by people who don’t even use it day to day. Like everything on the internet it’s a massive exaggeration. Yes you can see it, on completely black screens and usually only in loading screens. 95 percent of game time it’s completely unnoticeable. I use it every single day and I have sensitive as shit eyes.

I can even see it on my rog swift with a G sync module, but again it’s only on loading screens and a very slight flicker in contrast as the game loads.

of course LG had to make a statement they can’t just not respond to their customers comments And questions.

Pretty much, the gamma shift is a completely separate issue and for some reason people believe they are related. That's just raised black levels when VRR is initiated. LG solved this with a slider to darken areas. games that have proper gamma settings it's a non issue because you can set it correctly. Certain games dropping the gamma all the way down still had raised black levels, so this slider helps with that.

The flickering is an issue with very unstable frametimes. It's why it's mostly noticed in loading screen. I believe it's a fundamental issue with VRR since it's been an issue with gsync since it's inception. If you look up gsync flicker you will find articles dating back to 2014 and it's explained why it happens. Normal gameplay for the most part it just isn't an issue. People that don't have a VRR display but follow tech channels use it to rip LG when it affects EVERY VRR display.

https://techreport.com/news/27449/g-sync-monitors-flicker-in-some-games—and-heres-why/

 

[Hawk269]

Can someone explain to me why VRR disables local dimming on my X95J?

Because it does not have the processing to do both VRR and Local Dimming. Doing both requires a shit ton of processing that current TV's don't have. That is one of the issues with VRR and a LCD screen. It happens on the Samsung and LG LCD TV's as well.

 

[wvnative]

Because it does not have the processing to do both VRR and Local Dimming. Doing both requires a shit ton of processing that current TV's don't have. That is one of the issues with VRR and a LCD screen. It happens on the Samsung and LG LCD TV's as well.

Thanks for the explanation!

Sadly I'm too harsh on my TV to go OLED again

 

[ethomaz]

ALLM is set to 1 in info so it has it but I have no ideia how it works.

VRR thought is Fixed… so no VRR in Beta.

Outside that the Beta asks to update the controller before use.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Pretty much, the gamma shift is a completely separate issue and for some reason people believe they are related. That's just raised black levels when VRR is initiated. LG solved this with a slider to darken areas. games that have proper gamma settings it's a non issue because you can set it correctly. Certain games dropping the gamma all the way down still had raised black levels, so this slider helps with that.

The flickering is an issue with very unstable frametimes. It's why it's mostly noticed in loading screen. I believe it's a fundamental issue with VRR since it's been an issue with gsync since it's inception. If you look up gsync flicker you will find articles dating back to 2014 and it's explained why it happens. Normal gameplay for the most part it just isn't an issue. People that don't have a VRR display but follow tech channels use it to rip LG when it affects EVERY VRR display.

https://techreport.com/news/27449/g-sync-monitors-flicker-in-some-games—and-heres-why/

It does not change that current LG OLED panels suffer from both issues at this point in time (C9 + XSX + PS5) so not sure what the conspiracy theory against VRR is. Very minor FPS variations around 60 FPS and above will be helped, but they have side effects.

 

[RoadHazard]

Do games have to explicitly support VRR, or does it just "happen" if the hardware supports it? I guess it's related to how v-sync and framerate caps are implemented in each game?

 

[ethomaz]

Do games have to explicitly support VRR, or does it just "happen" if the hardware supports it? I guess it's related to how v-sync and framerate caps are implemented in each game?

I guess depends how it is implemented.
But Xbox games without VRR supports doesn’t allow VRR even with the OS supporting it.

 

[adamsapple]

Do games have to explicitly support VRR, or does it just "happen" if the hardware supports it? I guess it's related to how v-sync and framerate caps are implemented in each game?

It's a system level feature, doesn't require individual game support. The Xbox implementation at least, the assumption is that the PS5 implementation will be the same.

 

[RoadHazard]

It's a system level feature, doesn't require individual game support. The Xbox implementation at least, the assumption is that the PS5 implementation will be the same.

But aren't there some Xbox games where it doesn't work correctly? I seem to remember Halo Infinite being one of them. So it doesn't seem to be completely "automatic"?

 

[NeonGhost]

I guess depends how it is implemented.
But Xbox games without VRR supports doesn’t allow VRR even with the OS supporting it.

That’s not true at all

 

[ethomaz]

It's a system level feature, doesn't require individual game support. The Xbox implementation at least, the assumption is that the PS5 implementation will be the same.

On Xbox games that not implant VRR… doesn’t have it… it is something at SDK/game level.

That’s not true at all

It is true… several games doesn’t have VRR support on Series including big first-party.

 

[adamsapple]

But aren't there some Xbox games where it doesn't work correctly? I seem to remember Halo Infinite being one of them. So it doesn't seem to be completely "automatic"?

I think that game's 120hz mode was a very specific case where it didn't work for some reason, not sure if it's been patched since launch.

But I don't think I've read about any/many other games having similar issues.

On Xbox games that not implant VRR… doesn’t have it… it is something at SDK/game level.

I don't think that's the case.

 

[NeonGhost]

On Xbox games that not implant VRR… doesn’t have it… it is something at SDK/game level.


It is true… several games doesn’t have VRR support on Series including big first-party.

vrr Is done my the tv or monitor it has nothing to do with the game

 

[adamsapple]

vrr Is done my the tv or monitor it has nothing to do with the game

Yeah, VRR is hardware based, not software based.

Halo Infinite's 120hz mode not supporting it is a very unique case, it shouldn't be that way.

 

[Tygeezy]

It does not change that current LG OLED panels suffer from both issues at this point in time (C9 + XSX + PS5) so not sure what the conspiracy theory against VRR is. Very minor FPS variations around 60 FPS and above will be helped, but they have side effects.

The C9 got the update to mitigate raised blacks from VRR pretty recently. It's not be an issue for me because I haven't played any games that didn't let me adequately set the black level in game.

The famous example of this was 2019 modern warfare in HDR where setting the black level to the lowest setting still resulted in raised blacks when using VRR.

 

[ethomaz]

vrr Is done my the tv or monitor it has nothing to do with the game

VRR is done via software on output side and it doesn’t require hardware on input (TV/Monitor).

The only exception is G-Sync ultimate that has a hardware module on the Monitor/TV.

When a TV support a VRR it is because the software can understand the VRR signal… that is why you can add VRR via firmware… of course VRR require some hardware requirements like HDMI bandwidth, panel refresh rate, etc.

That is why premium monitors could add VRR even years after it was launched.

 

[NeonGhost]

Yeah, VRR is hardware based, not software based.

Halo Infinite's 120hz mode not supporting it is a very unique case, it shouldn't be that way.

Halo does support it

 

[adamsapple]

Halo does support it

I don't know if it's been fixed since launch, but at the launch window the campaign's 120hz mode was not engaging VRR, DF mentioned in their analysis as well.