nial
Gold Member
A bad Fable, Awoved and Perfect Dark wouldn't sell shit, Starfield maybe at launch, but it would definitely have pretty weak legs.
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NPD/Circana US March 2023: PS5 #1 (now ahead of PS4 when aligned), RE4#1, MLB#3 and TLOU #5
bender
What time is it?
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
nah he reminds me more of kingfey, think about it KINGfey swap position and concept and you got feyNOOB
El Pistolero
Banned
Well, there is another obvious element in regard to those upcoming games: They will all release 4 years + into the life cycle of the console...That is already too late. The PS3 was able to correct course because of how popular the brand is around the world, and even then, it never was able to catch up in those territories where the 360 had secured a significant lead: North America, England...
Does the Xbox brand have enough pull to succeed in changing things by 2024/2025? I would not bet on it. Now, this has nothing to do with the quality of Avowed or Fable. If anything, I see them both being great, on account of the developers' pedigree...It is just a case of too little, too late, when it comes to eating at Sony marketshare. Hell, now you (MS) have ceded the first 9 months to your direct rival, while they (Sony) still have the "re-design (The PS5 was obviously built with cost cutting in mind) and the Spiderman bullets to clean house from October onwards. MS had a unique opportunity to shine because of how Covid impacted everybody, slowing down Sony and the PS in the process; That window has closed, unfortunately.
Does the Xbox brand have enough pull to succeed in changing things by 2024/2025? I would not bet on it. Now, this has nothing to do with the quality of Avowed or Fable. If anything, I see them both being great, on account of the developers' pedigree...It is just a case of too little, too late, when it comes to eating at Sony marketshare. Hell, now you (MS) have ceded the first 9 months to your direct rival, while they (Sony) still have the "re-design (The PS5 was obviously built with cost cutting in mind) and the Spiderman bullets to clean house from October onwards. MS had a unique opportunity to shine because of how Covid impacted everybody, slowing down Sony and the PS in the process; That window has closed, unfortunately.
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demigod
Member
Uhh we already know he is that. He is also spidernoob.nah he reminds me more of kingfey, think about it KINGfey swap position and concept and you got feyNOOB
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Oh, I might've missed that, I don't know spidernoob though.
Team Andromeda
Member
feynoob
Member
You can keep those static. I have no interest for them.
feynoob
Member
That is me.nah he reminds me more of kingfey, think about it KINGfey swap position and concept and you got feyNOOB
Though, I gave up my posting rights. Kind of refreshing that I don't have to bother making posts.
Anyway, it's hard trying to be in the middle. I get one side calling me PS fan, while the other side here is calling me Xbox fan.
Team Andromeda
Member
That's his job mate. It's not just about games it's about making people feel they need and want your product. There weren't many games early in for the 360, but it didn't matter, much the same for the 1st year of the PS2, but they had they had hype
And I'm not interested in your SONY trolling tbh
I haven't seen an advert for the Xbox since last year and it's like Xbox has given up on TV advertising and currently is busy promoting a game on YouTube that isn't exclusive and isn't on Gamepass (Diablo). One can hope that MS may come out of hidnng when the Activision deal is done
feynoob
Member
Town of the talk is that MS cut down Xboxs marketing budget.
It was part of their gaming budget cut down that they did recently. It's why you don't see a lot of marketing, aside of few ads.
DaGwaphics
Member
If Starfield performs like a typical Bethesda RPG, that absolutely will be a system seller. What Sony has historically had that MS hasn't is a consistent flow of well received software, once that problem is corrected their sales trajectory can/will certainly change for the better. Players get the systems where the games they want to play are at, MS has to offer more than Forza/Halo/Gears as console exclusives in order to make their system a must have in gaming households. There isn't some mythical face off with review scores they need to compete in with Sony, they simply need to make games that players want to play. Adding Xbox systems to previously PS only households would be a big win for them, these users don't need to burn their PS or choose one platform over the other exclusively.
They look to have a good lineup for this year from what we know about, hopefully the upcoming showcase will highlight what the first half of 2024 looks like and maybe give us a tantalizing hint or two outside that window. It will be good for them to get the ABK deal done and put that behind them also as the kind of energy they needed to put forward to close that wasn't particularly momentum building for the brand, LOL.
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Team Andromeda
Member
Spare us your trolling.
Xbox is still making money and you don't need a person at the top who cares for video gaming and has a passion for it at all, I've never heard such drivel in all my life; You really think Yamauchi-san was BIG gamer? or the likes of Morita-?
What MS need to put in place is people who can advertise, or more likely need to give their PR dept a higher budget, like the old days with Gates, another person at the top who didn't care for console gaming at all.
Team Andromeda
Member
'Talk of the town' is it's down to keeping a low profile to get the Activision deal over the line.
To me MS should be looking to do more prime-time ads and actually advertise its console.
We'll see...
DaGwaphics
Member
With the momentum PS had going in, there is no person alive that could have miraculously reversed the course of the race this quickly.
Xbox has made the investments they need to make getting games/studios, now they just need to work on getting the content out consistently. And like I said, they should try to get the XSX out there a bit more it still has availability problems at most of the major retailers (not saying they would be beating PS numbers even if they were available, but certainly you can sell more of them when they are available than when they are not, sorry @
demigod
that's just market realities).
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
timdog working overtime to change reality is quite amusing.
I honestly don't think they want to make a lot of consoles right now. They will probably wait until a die shrink or redesign before they ship out a large number of Series X .
In October they was speaking of taking a $100 to $200 hit on their consoles, Why even mention this 2 years after your console is on the market? Then they said something about growth in PC Gamepass but saturated or something on console ( I don't remember the exact words but it stood out to me that they didn't sound like they was planning to push out many consoles anytime soon)
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Being exclusive while great isn't even the most important thing a game needs to be a system seller.
ook at COD, Hogwarts, GTA... not exclusive, but still manage to be system sellers.
There are four things a game needs to be a system for, and exclusivity is the least important one of them.
A list war is where we basically just start listing out games that are exclusive and just calling every one a system seller. Which would be stupid cause that's not the case.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Knowing you can probably buy your way out of the situation / your mistakes is not a great motivator. Look at PS4 out of the gate vs the image the PS3 left it with (despite actually winning its comeback race, not a lot of people, not the press, were giving it credit)… perception is not everything, you can dig yourself out of it. Xbox One X and Xbox One S did undo a lot of the damage reputation wise the launch Xbox One had too, especially the former.
I think they could have done better than just buying publishers… the software output of their existing studios is on them. The “tools” still being lost is on them. The way they designed XSX|S still losing $100-200 per console while PS5 started to break even relatively shortly after launch is again on them, etc... Teflon Phil is not perfect.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
list wars.
John Wick
Member
By the time Xbox even gets the games from ABK that are exclusive the gen will be over.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
After the PS2 momentum, we saw Xbox 360 reversing the course.With the momentum PS had going in, there is no person alive that could have miraculously reversed the course of the race this quickly.
Xbox has made the investments they need to make getting games/studios, now they just need to work on getting the content out consistently. And like I said, they should try to get the XSX out there a bit more it still has availability problems at most of the major retailers (not saying they would be beating PS numbers even if they were available, but certainly you can sell more of them when they are available than when they are not, sorry @
After the Xbox 360 momentum, we saw PS4 reversing the course.
After Wii U, we saw Nintendo Switch reversing the course.
It's not unprecedented.
If anything, it's more normal in the gaming industry for a company to bounce back and the winner to not maintain its streak than for the status quo to prevail.
It's on Phil that he couldn't do it despite spending nearly $100 billion.
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feynoob
Member
They need to fix their brand image first and establish themselves as a big brand.
Xbox is weak in terms of global awareness.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
I'm not trolling when I say the brand needs to go and switch to something else or 'Gamepass' (although that has its own problems). The image of Xbox, the green, the Americanism - feels stuck in the early noughties.
It's not working with those outside the US, and critically I think they are failing hard to attract more female gamers (whether that is because of branding and types of games on there). That enormous demographic is getting tapped by Sony and Nintendo. I would love to know the male/female split of Xbox historically.
What is realistic is the Xbox brand doesn't disappear next gen but gets moved to the side whilst another, Gamepass, takes over.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Wait for Starfield and Series X problem being availability has to be the worst, disconnected from reality take in generations.
Yoboman
Member
Fable and Perfect Dark are system sellers?
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
This is the result of years of frontal competition between the two brands and with a little bit of "me too" from the Xbox side.
Sony exclusives have been said to be one of the key reasons to its success. They also had weak consoles sales in 2022 that they inputed to supply issues. And now they have fixed those issues and are having records sales.
Xbox is being blamed for its lack of exclusives. Starfield will fix that. Xbox is having weak sales right now. Phil warned of supply issues for the Series X. Fix thoses and the sales will go up. Make sense at a glance, and not entirely untrue.
The reality is that the US is the exception to the norm, if I can use this exprrddion in this context. And that exception may follow the rest of the world with a Sony and Nintendo on top and a Xbox with a dark future, unless they change things for the better and do it fast.
Activision may be their answer. Of that may fail too. Gamepass may become a irressistible proposition with a good marketing campaign. Or not. This is what harm them the most for me. This lack of certitudes, traditions. We know that Sony end generztions with bang. We know that Nintendo will give us amazing games too. But Xbox has never been consistent that way. I am talking decades not just a year or two.
I liked of Phil Spencer said in a recent interwiew that exclusived are like marketing beats. Sony is consistent in that. Nintendo even more. Xbox needs to take its drum and follow suit. Each game they put that is good will help them. But they have to exist. And be good.
Oddvintagechap
Member
idk y. but I LOVE this, its funny.
And to be honest, the games not releasing on ps5 is more likely to affect the success of the games than the success of ps5.
JackSparr0w
Banned
Steam broke it's user-base records again recently and it's growth dwarfs the numbers that PS5 is doing.
PS2 is still the best seller. If anything console gaming has stagnated in the past 20 years while PC gaming has boomed to stratospheric levels.
jm89
Member
Is that a like for like comparison?
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
I think we can all say that we noticed the efforts, but even if I never followed whose alt is who's there are times like in this thread where your preference can clearly be seen and I don't think there's a lot of people calling you a sony fan.Just look how you reacted here you were projecting your hopes as facts, it took you something like 2 pages to finally admit that nobody knows anything about those games so they could be dud but admitting that they could be would be a bad news for Xbox and it is harder for you to accept.
But I have to admit that you are way more pleasant to talk to now tha you used to be even though and that is something that I apreciate with you never dwell in insults unlike some other people that I have interacted with so tahnk you for that.
SkylineRKR
Member
I think there was growth. PS2 is still the best seller but it was offset by very weak Xbox and GC sales. In total the PS3+Xbox+Wii should've sold more over the same timespan, and the PS3 wasn't exactly well received. Especially if you look at software sales, there has been an immense growth. Ps2 only had a few multi million sellers, most of those numbers would now be bombas.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Right?
Two games/IPs that weren't selling enough so they had to be shut down years ago. Now they are suddenly system sellers with 0 resurgence or game in between.
Just like Redfall doesn't appear on these "system sellers" lists anymore, I also expect these other games to be gradually dropped:
- "Well, Obsidian never made big-selling games, so that's why Avowed wasn't a system seller."
- "Well, Fable had already lost its audience and was only brought back because of hardcore fans demand. It was never going to be a big system seller."
- "Well, Perfect Dark is an old IP with a small fanbase. It was never going to be a system seller. MS should have let Initiative make a new IP."
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FatallyYours
Gold Member
Xbox has stepped up marketing slightly (here in old blighty) but I guess most of you won't see it lol...
I barely use Netflix, only have it on as background noise whilst working or watch the occasional thing, so only pay for the advert supported version. Lately, as in the past week, every 2nd advert is a gamepass advert. There's a short advert that lasts about 15 seconds, and a longer one that's about a minute-ish?
Longer version ad quickly goes through about 10 games you can find on gamepass. One of the highlights, Civ6 gets a push! I love Civ (even on console), but an advert for gamepass, for casuals, on Netflix, highlighting civ6, in 2023....made me laugh
Money well spent
I barely use Netflix, only have it on as background noise whilst working or watch the occasional thing, so only pay for the advert supported version. Lately, as in the past week, every 2nd advert is a gamepass advert. There's a short advert that lasts about 15 seconds, and a longer one that's about a minute-ish?
Longer version ad quickly goes through about 10 games you can find on gamepass. One of the highlights, Civ6 gets a push! I love Civ (even on console), but an advert for gamepass, for casuals, on Netflix, highlighting civ6, in 2023....made me laugh
Money well spent
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GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
The 90 year old crudola Switch is still outselling the Series in the US?
What in tarnation?
What in tarnation?
GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
Playstation
Switch
Series
Switch
Series
Mahavastu
Member
With todays development cycles for games, I expect Elder Scrolls at the very end of the generation, maybe even in CrossGen territory with the PS6/next XBox
feynoob
Member
I am not projecting hopes here, as my numbers are just estimation and not fact. The only reason I am making these claims is due to how different is this gen from Xbox one and the games that they have. Plus consumers behaviors are wild to predict. Considering they don't follow our normal traditions here.
As for my opinions, they can be wrong or right. And I don't have any rights to insult other people's opinions, when they don't have the same view as me.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
you might be misquoting me here because we haven't talked about numbers at all, so frankly I don't really know what to respond.But i will argue anyway, yeah this gen is different, at the start of the Xbox one gen MS had exclusives, not this one, xbox with all the drought they had never spent something like 2 years with nothing big to release, the series bare had anythin for its first year and will maybe have something by the end of the year.How come MS had way less studios last gen yet released more games and think about it MS had to buy a whole publisher just to get an anemic result and is trying to buy another one...Their incompetence is astonishing but it is not surprising when we can see people here saying amen to every mistake they make.Look at jim ryan for example there were som amny ardent sony fanboys that hated him yet Playstation is in better shape than it has ever been.
Now look at Phil Spencer, Xbox is losing on every market it will be around 2 years of nothing and the guy has been running Xbox for around 10 years and the only thing he did is gamepass and buying publisher(s)...
Let me make a analogy for you where I live in France the government tried to launch a streaming platform: Salto.It was cheaper than Netflix or prime yet it failed because everything on it fucking sucked.That's why you need to invest on quality and release those quality games, they need something big and something good and there's not a lot in the near or medium future that ntells me it is going to change.So no I am not hoping that games that were revealed around 4 years ago and that still have no gameplay will be great, when I see them then I'll make a informed opinion.
feynoob
Member
The startup for XBS hasn't been good compared to Xbox one, but games that are in development for this gen is much better than last Gen.
The studios and the upcoming games are way different than last gen.
That is mainly due to their acquisition of ninja theory, obsidian and zenimax studios. That will bolster their first party line up, which Xbox one struggled for the entire gen.
These are the key parts which makes this gen much better than Xbox one. It won't be "Next E3 will be better".
Wether the games will be a hit or not is entirely another topic.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Dude stop it, you can't know that, you only hope that.We haven't seen the slightest of the games but to you they are already better.Yeah they bought studios but they seemed to be so mismanaged that almost none of it has released anything, compare them to insomniac games for example between miles Ratched and spidey 2 this year....They bought the studio during this gen, now you are telling me that the studios bought last gen have jack shit to show?Why would these games be better?You know nothing about them, Arkane made great games but look at Redfall, look at Halo, look at ghostwire running like a vegetable.
feynoob
Member
23 studios is much better than what they had during Xbox one. How is that hoping?
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Great what exclusives have they released so far ?Now compare that number to how many of them are in dev hell.How often do hey release games ?What gameplay have we seen from them?
Having studios is great but managing them well is also important and empiric evidences suggests that they are not.
Now add when are we expecting those games to release and will they be good?
Because we know that CGI don't mean shit but they are great to enroll people on the hype train just like you are.Because every game that we don't know about is awesome then reality hits,Halo was supposed to stomp in the gaming world, then reality hit.
Carckdown had a great CGI trailer then reality hit, Redfall is from a great studio but doesn't seem great etc.
Anyway I feel like we are going in circle and that you are incapable of admitting that these games might be bad or not move the needle (which is true for any game btw).