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Phil Spencer admits defeat in console space, and doesn't think great games would help Xbox's market share.
- Thread starter FunkMiller
- Start date
Romulus
Member
I mean look at the unit sales. I'm not a fan of Nintendo games, but most would agree they have the best lineup for their market. They're also a top seller in terms of unit sales.
Sony is close behind in quantity of exclusives games that are also great. The.ps4/ps5 are also great sellers and close behind Nintendo.
Then there's Xbox, way behind in both exclusives and.... sales.
Coincidence? Lol.
The fact is Xbox hasn't had a good lineup of exclusives since the Xbox 360, which just so happened to be the best selling Xbox console ever.
Coincidence? Lol
Sony is close behind in quantity of exclusives games that are also great. The.ps4/ps5 are also great sellers and close behind Nintendo.
Then there's Xbox, way behind in both exclusives and.... sales.
Coincidence? Lol.
The fact is Xbox hasn't had a good lineup of exclusives since the Xbox 360, which just so happened to be the best selling Xbox console ever.
Coincidence? Lol
AJUMP23
Member
Brand isn't tainted. Most people do not pay attention to this stuff. It isn't "you can't play used games". It is just Phil looking at his marketing and market share and being realistic. But a person in his position should have a plan, and go buy some software that are must haves. I think they thought they did that in some ways. And are trying to do that with Activation. But some areas they took bets on have not paid off.
Redfall : Xbox :: Forspoken : PS5
GHG
Member
The reality is that the bar has been set by Sony and Nintendo and they should be doing everything they can to strive to match them in terms of quality and frequency of releases. At the very least they should be doing and trying their best. Give the division a fighting chance, that's how you compete.
Admitting defeat and somewhat giving up like this is a very strange thing to do.
It's not about wanting a winner, it's about wanting every competitor in this space to be putting their best foot forwards.
No wonder he's happy to release Redfall in the state that they did if that's the mentality.
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Dr_Ifto
Member
Dude is either an idiot and should be fired, or a liar and should be fired.
Bernoulli
M2 slut
Redfall is a first party title from a 8 Billions aquisition
Forspoken is third party time exclusive that had a bad start
Dr_Ifto
Member
Redfall is 1st party and Forspoken is 3rd party. In the end, Forspoken issues falls on SE not Sony.
balls of snow
Member
Thats a face of a beaten man.
Looks like xbox needs a new face.
Looks like xbox needs a new face.
AJUMP23
Member
Exclusives are exclusives and reflect the brand. Timed or not.
fred420170
Member
Def the worst!
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Fair enough, but then why did they buy multiplatform AAA studios (like Zenimax) off the table for PlayStation?
Xbox makes niche games but reduces another console's AAA library?
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Well something I've argued before and just been laughed at is that we passed the time when you can just catch up. How long do you think it would take XBG Studios to get to the level of TLOU2 graphically? The big advantage that Nintendo has is that they have continuity of staff and studios dating back to the 1970s. They all still work there and their development culture was never interrupted. Sony has that to a lesser extent (20 years less) but still plenty of continuity. Sucker Punch wasn't amazing. But they got to make multiple trilogies of games that were AA games, well liked but no ground breaking. They got better at finishing projects and scaling up over a long period of time when you could put out a trilogy in 5 years. Now 1 game takes 6 years if you're good. How does a new studio catch up in experience when a trilogy would take 18 years? They literally can't. This is why everyone is pursuing acquisitions, because now it is a finite resource that can't be easily recreated.
If people are fine with Xbox making more AA style games and slowly getting better, then it makes sense. I'm fine with that, but the vast majority of people aren't.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I listened to it all, and it actually makes sense.
There is no competing. People have invested in their platform, their digital platforms and Sony fans have always said I'll just buy a pc. So there is literally no "win" for xbox in the console space. Its not possible.
As long as they make great hardware there is an option there for people that want it and those that don't want it will buy a pc for the games when they come.
There is no competing. People have invested in their platform, their digital platforms and Sony fans have always said I'll just buy a pc. So there is literally no "win" for xbox in the console space. Its not possible.
As long as they make great hardware there is an option there for people that want it and those that don't want it will buy a pc for the games when they come.
Sorcerer
Member
It could be, we will see by the end of the year. Maybe he is just softening the blow for the announcement. Maybe he knows Starfield doesn't have a chance in hell of moving the needle at this point. Maybe something more sinister is in the wings for Xbox in general. Phil has not been able to right the sinking ship that started with Xbox One. Microsoft has more money and more resources than any company has any right to, and they cannot compete. Maybe there really is only room for 2 players in the market that already cover the majority of needs (Nintendo, and Sony, seem to fulfill the necessary spectrum of games). One major player (Valve) ruling PC (even if is just distribution). Phones for everybody else. Maybe this is some kind of Karma payback for taking Sega's place in the game world. Sad, but it might just be the reality that 3 players in the console market is too much choice and too much money for consumers to allocate for.
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Die Namek Ability
Member
Im so fucking happy i decided to build a PC rather than get a Series X. What a freaking joke.
Wildebeest
Member
Shocking that the mock reviewers pulled their punches or shocking that the real reviewers grew a pair?
Denton
Member
I read the whole quote and if actually understanding the nuance, he ain't wrong - it is not ONLY about the games anymore, when people are invested in their existing digital libraries and ecosystems.
Still though, games sure as fuck help and MS needs to improve on that (which he is well aware of).
Still though, games sure as fuck help and MS needs to improve on that (which he is well aware of).
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yurinka
Member
Sounds surprisingly honest instead of throwing the typical PR bullshit.
He feels sad, dissapointed and defeated. But at least he seems on point making an analysis of what went wrong and why. So hopefully this helps them to fix it for the future.
According to MS, XBO sold under the half of what PS4 sold (117.2M+). So less than 58M+.
Now Nintendo merged their home and portable console markets, catalog and teams and they grew from 90M to 122.5M and counting. Part of it because it had the portable market monopoly since Sony no longer made another handheld.
So that Nintendo growth came mostly from adding on top the 3DS+Vita market on top of what they had in home consoles. Not something that MS can do.
He feels sad, dissapointed and defeated. But at least he seems on point making an analysis of what went wrong and why. So hopefully this helps them to fix it for the future.
The previous generation they had a home console that sold 13.5M portable that sold 76M, combined basically 90M.
According to MS, XBO sold under the half of what PS4 sold (117.2M+). So less than 58M+.
Now Nintendo merged their home and portable console markets, catalog and teams and they grew from 90M to 122.5M and counting. Part of it because it had the portable market monopoly since Sony no longer made another handheld.
So that Nintendo growth came mostly from adding on top the 3DS+Vita market on top of what they had in home consoles. Not something that MS can do.
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He is not in left field when he points out that the digital libraries we all started assembling last generation gave our existing platform(s) a leg up on keeping us in their ecosystem(s). But it was nothing more than an advantage. It was not the beginning and end, and if Halo (or anything really) hit the ground in proper shape in 2020 the advantage would have been neutralized.
Second, the claim they weren't trying to win the console sales race reeks of BS. They released the lowest common denominator just for console sales. They literally spent billions of dollars on a publisher, and then cancelled all plans to release certain games on the biggest install base, to sell consoles.
Now for the fun part. What the hell was the intended purpose of this interview? Why did the top guy in MS gaming go out and essentially claim defeat at this juncture in terms of console market share? Are we really to believe it was off the cuff because he's just like one of us and likes talking video games? Or do we believe a trillion dollar entity plans virtually all of their messaging, especially in times of crisis?
Some might say the answer to that is they are throwing up another hail mary pass to the CMA. I won't dismiss that, but it feels more like consumer conditioning to me. As in getting people in a better state to accept some future news.
Second, the claim they weren't trying to win the console sales race reeks of BS. They released the lowest common denominator just for console sales. They literally spent billions of dollars on a publisher, and then cancelled all plans to release certain games on the biggest install base, to sell consoles.
Now for the fun part. What the hell was the intended purpose of this interview? Why did the top guy in MS gaming go out and essentially claim defeat at this juncture in terms of console market share? Are we really to believe it was off the cuff because he's just like one of us and likes talking video games? Or do we believe a trillion dollar entity plans virtually all of their messaging, especially in times of crisis?
Some might say the answer to that is they are throwing up another hail mary pass to the CMA. I won't dismiss that, but it feels more like consumer conditioning to me. As in getting people in a better state to accept some future news.
This is the first thing I thought of too.
Like...this could have been the perfect time for him to mention supply issues.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Hell no. Nintendo just released their best-selling and most profitable main console after their most disastrous one ever. Phil just sucks at his job. He has no idea WTF he's doing and is just throwing shit at the wall hoping it sticks. His management skills are piss-poor and Xbox is riddled with incompetent people in the wrong divisions.
PS and PS2 were runaway successes and Xbox had an even more anemic market share at the time but managed to compete with the PS3 because of the fuck-ups and Sony's overconfidence. It is absolutely possible to catch a significant portion of the market if you give people compelling reasons to choose your brand. Xbox has been a disaster for 10 years and counting and Phil hasn't righted the ship.
Kick this man out and bring in some fresh blood. If I owned an Xbox, I'd sell it immediately for a PS5. This is pathetic and embarrassing for the face of the brand.
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Schmendrick
Member
It´s almost as if people forget how many studios MS has bought up over the years that then suddenly didn`t produce anything worthwhile anymore.
Did all those studio employees lose their memories the moment the buying contract was signed or is it somehow an issue with how MS handles their development? Because Sony does basically the same and has incomparably better results.
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ByWatterson
Member
His comment, in the context of the attempt to purchase Activision, comes across as desperate, bitter, and colors the ABK acquisition as mafia tactics.
It reads as, "We can't win fairly, so we're going to try to muscle our way in and dominate unfairly." That's not really how I see the deal, but that's 100% how it reads.
It reads as, "We can't win fairly, so we're going to try to muscle our way in and dominate unfairly." That's not really how I see the deal, but that's 100% how it reads.
HTK
Banned
Now I'm starting to feel like Microsoft should just become a publisher and put their games on all platforms and ditch the Xbox hardware. Additionally, keep GamePass and try to focus on that only and have that present on as many platforms and keep building a portfolio of devs and games. I think they would make probably more money that way than keeping their games off Nintendo or PlayStation? I don't know but it doesn't look good for them at the moment.
Ansphn
Member
Unbelievable. I never heard something like this before in gaming history. This man just outright waived the white flag in the middle of a console generation. Who in their right mind would even buy an Xbox console at this point. How is this man still employed and still getting paid by Microsoft?
Die Namek Ability
Member
Well im certainly glad Sony didnt have this mentality after the early struggles of the PS3 i can tell you that much.
Edit: or Nintendo after wiiU for that matter
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fred420170
Member
Bad start?!? SE closed the whole damn studio LOL
FeastYoEyes
Member
Sounds like the creation of a sob story to appeal to the hearts of regulators....
Exactly.
The Series S was them fighting for market share.
This is something many of us were saying...if that console, while also being discounted, isnt helping...
Robbinhood
Banned
I can't watch the vid its too cringey for me to bear But ....why go on this show at all. Stay home and work man, I don't get it.
Unless you are trying to convince regulators and win an appeal....
Unless you are trying to convince regulators and win an appeal....
ChuckeRearmed
Member
But that's true. If even Xbox 360 era was not able to beat Sony, then after Xbox One where they lost in a generation when people started building up digital libraries - there is no chance they can win a console race.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Nintendo basically retreated from all HD development and took a last ditch effort on a new idea. They waved the flag a long time ago.
After Wii U, they basically dropped the home console and now just portable.
Die Namek Ability
Member
Thats because Sony one uped them. With the digital PS5, it was so much better value it made XSS DOA.Exactly.
The Series S was them fighting for market share.
This is something many of us were saying...if that console, while also being discounted, isnt helping...
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Tiago Rodrigues
Member
At this point MS should just go the Nintendo and Playstation way and stop with these interviews.
Let the games do the talking (even if apparently they don't mind lmao). Stop having PR people doing these interviews.
This is such a defeating thing to say. Imagine thinking great games won't sell a videogame console.
This felt more like Phil still trying to show Xbox as this weak ass company due to this acquisition happening and appearing even weaker than they are...and this will backfire on them.
Honestly Xbox seems like it's basically Gamepass at this point with studios running free to do whatever they want at Xbox. But content IS king. Redfall can't be their content from here on out.
Phil just showed they barely have any quality control, even saying the game's crashes weren't that bad cause there weren't a lot of them. Like...who says that?
Let the games do the talking (even if apparently they don't mind lmao). Stop having PR people doing these interviews.
This is such a defeating thing to say. Imagine thinking great games won't sell a videogame console.
This felt more like Phil still trying to show Xbox as this weak ass company due to this acquisition happening and appearing even weaker than they are...and this will backfire on them.
Honestly Xbox seems like it's basically Gamepass at this point with studios running free to do whatever they want at Xbox. But content IS king. Redfall can't be their content from here on out.
Phil just showed they barely have any quality control, even saying the game's crashes weren't that bad cause there weren't a lot of them. Like...who says that?
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