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[SlimySnake]

That's what I've been saying for a while.
On console I'd rather have slightly worse "graphics" but with a nice sharp IQ and solid performance vs better "graphics" with a soft grainy image, shimmering, notorious FSR artifacting, frame rate drops and 60fps modes struggling to hit their target even running at sub 1080p resolutions, etc.
I really think visuals on console games are only going to go downhill for here as devs push better tech at the cost of image quality, resolution and performance (maybe the rumored Ps5 pro will help with this)

On PC if you've got a high end rig that can run the nicer graphics without sacrificing image quality and performance it's another story.

But most games releasing today are well over 1080p base that we played with all gen last gen. So what changed? Did the Pro consoles raise standards and expectations? If so, then wait for pro consoles that should be arriving by next year.

The base PS4 games were mostly 1080p with some third parties targeting 900p as early as 2013 and 2014 when ryse, watch dogs, ac unity, and bf4 all targeted 900p. Nowadays most games are native 4k to 1440p fsr upscaled to 4k. There are rare exceptions like Star Wars and Alan Wake 2, but i would say too many games are targeting native 4k.

Last gen also didnt have to worry about offering 60 fps modes because the CPUs were too weak but now we are finally getting them and then complaining when they drop below 1080p. why? everyone and their mothers knows that 60 fps comes at a cost, and if you dont like that cost, stick with 30 fps.

I think Alan Wake will have its shimmering sorted out and will look fine. I agree that anything below 1440p is probably too low for 30 fps, but AW2's issues are mostly to do with poor AA that can be resolved like they were in Horizon FW. Even Star Wars was recently patched to improve performance and now its 30 fps mode runs at 1440p internal resolution without any shimmering.

I think games with good AA will be fine even at 1080p internal resolution. Just look at Returnal. its soft but no sihmmering or fsr artifcating you see in AW2 which has a much higher base resolution. Fix the AA and you will be fine. Horizon's 60 fps mode is way cleaner than AW2 despite being the same resolution. Downgrading the effects will completely change the look of the game for the worse for everyone. just look at the avatar downgrade from the first trailer. done persumably because the consoles are just not powerful enough to run those visuals. The PC gamers also had their games downgraded. thats not fair to them either.

 

[SlimySnake]

Why PS4.5 visuals? RDR2 was easily one of the best of last gen, why wouldn't they push visuals the same way for this gen?

Game started dev in 2013 according to Schrier. Even though they were working on RDR2 the whole time, i am a 100% sure they had a sizeable team working on GTA6 for PS4 before pivoting. The leaks were still using PS4 devkits in 2019. That leads me to believe that it started off as a PS4 game and as we have seen time and time again, even next gen only games like Dead Space, Star Wars, Spiderman 2, and FF16 have this PS4 look to them. I highly doubt they authored their assets AFTER 2019. A lot of art work must have been done before that. Stuff like lighting and traffic density they can improve, but the actual city assets were created long ago. Unlesss they threw them all out and started from scratch after 2020.

I would love to be proven wrong, but i got a bad feeling about this.

 

[GymWolf]

Ps4.5 visual fidelity.
Next Gen animations
Some kind of physics simulation. Destruction , water, weather or traffic
Unparalled level of detail in the city and NPCs.

Lmao forget that dude, rockstar has never been good at that.

Unless you mean ia, reactions etc.

 

[Negotiator101]

Game started dev in 2013 according to Schrier. Even though they were working on RDR2 the whole time, i am a 100% sure they had a sizeable team working on GTA6 for PS4 before pivoting. The leaks were still using PS4 devkits in 2019. That leads me to believe that it started off as a PS4 game and as we have seen time and time again, even next gen only games like Dead Space, Star Wars, Spiderman 2, and FF16 have this PS4 look to them. I highly doubt they authored their assets AFTER 2019. A lot of art work must have been done before that. Stuff like lighting and traffic density they can improve, but the actual city assets were created long ago. Unlesss they threw them all out and started from scratch after 2020.

I would love to be proven wrong, but i got a bad feeling about this.

I think in all fairness you have to expect a better looking game than RDR2 which to this day is still what top 5 ever? Looking at it from this POV you'd have to say it has a good chance of being the best graphics yet at least.

 

[SlimySnake]

Lmao forget that dude, rockstar has never been good at that.

Unless you mean ia, reactions etc.

yeah, thats what i meant. their cities are full of insane detail that cyberpunk simply couldnt match a generation later. NPC AI simulations will be top notch too. they will just add stuff we cant even think of.

I remember playing gta4 back in the day and after a car accident, the NPC's head would bash against the steering wheel and the car horn would go off. Stuff like that. Or the insane traffic accidents we saw in the watch dogs bullshot trailer. just stuff we havent seen before.

 

[SlimySnake]

I think in all fairness you have to expect a better looking game than RDR2 which to this day is still what top 5 ever? Looking at it from this POV you'd have to say it has a good chance of being the best graphics yet at least.

I agree. thats why i said PS4.5 not PS4 which had RDR2 as its best looking open world.

To me, PS4.5 is demon souls, ratchet and cyberpunk. I just dont think we are getting matrix quality graphics from a game that started development in 2013. Making the game on PS4 devkits in 2019 makes no sense either. would they throw away 7 years of art work and assets in 2020 and start from scratch with next gen assets? Doubt it.

lots of red flags. thats all.

 

[GymWolf]

People are setting themselves for a rude awakening if they think gta can have Nextgen physicis and interaction, traffic etc. AND nextgen graphic and assets, it's one or the other with these shitty consoles (when they don't fail in both like sp2)

I bet the city is not gonna even reach the level of robocop pics because it's a gigantic lively city vs a sandbox area with barely anything going on, we can make an avatar bet.

Let's pray that at least the physics and interactions are gonna be nextgen, i only care about that, no rockstar game ever was good because it had good assets or extremely detailed characters.

 

[GymWolf]

I agree. thats why i said PS4.5 not PS4 which had RDR2 as its best looking open world.

To me, PS4.5 is demon souls, ratchet and cyberpunk. I just dont think we are getting matrix quality graphics from a game that started development in 2013. Making the game on PS4 devkits in 2019 makes no sense either. would they throw away 7 years of art work and assets in 2020 and start from scratch with next gen assets? Doubt it.

lots of red flags. thats all.

Jesus dude, you can't expect matrix graphic, that thing didn't had a truckload of stuff in it, it was a basic tech demo, you don't want a list of all the features that gta6 is gonna have over that thing.

It is not gonna happen, let it go.

 

[SlimySnake]

Jesus dude, you can't expect matrix graphic, that thing didn't had a truckload of stuff in it, it was a basic tech demo, you don't want a list of all the features that gta6 is gonna have over that thing.

It is not gonna happen, let it go.

robocop looks like the matrix. better than it at times.

 

[SlimySnake]

I bet the city is not gonna even reach the level of robocop pics because it's a gigantic lively city vs a sandbox area with barely anything going on, we can make an avatar bet.

You didnt let it slide for Spiderman 2 not having next gen visuals, so why make preemptive excuses about gta6?

 

[GymWolf]

robocop looks like the matrix. better than it at times.

No it doesn't.

And even when it get close or on par, it's a sandbox area with barely anything in it, no traffic, no advanced ia, no physics, no nothing.

Gta6 is gonna have simulations even for a chewingum sticking on npcs shoes, you can bet on that if rdr2 was anything to go by.

 

[GymWolf]

You didnt let it slide for Spiderman 2 not having next gen visuals, so why make preemptive excuses about gta6?

Because gta push way more simulation and physics than sp2 is ever gonna do so i can excuse subpar graphic, like i said to you, npcs and traffic in sp2 is less interactive than fucking infamous 1 on ps2, are we doing this again dude? You know that sp2 simulation is dogshit compared to games with actual traffic\npcs interactions where it's not only a facade.

Smart people know where to put their expectations, and we know rockstar has never being good with incredible assets or characters but they are godly when it comes to simulations and making a lively city.

 

[SlimySnake]

Because gta push way more simulation and physics than sp2 is ever gonna do so i can excuse subpar graphic, like i said to you, npcs and traffic in sp2 is less interactive than fucking infamous 1 on ps2, are we doing this again dude?

Smart people know where to put their expectations.

But gta6 wont push the fast traversal of spiderman. But when Chiefdada made that excuse, you dismissed it.

I am not disagreeing with you. I literally said that it will NOT have next gen visuals and will push simulations. However, I am just consistent whereas you pick and choose which game is allowed to have last gen visuals if they are pushing simulations. Spiderman 2 has a massive leap in traffic density, and NPC behaviors. I never once saw you praise let alone say hey the visuals took a hit because of the other things they pushed.

 

[Balducci30]

You didnt let it slide for Spiderman 2 not having next gen visuals, so why make preemptive excuses about gta6?

What simulations does spider man 2 do that are in any way raising the bar from what we’ve seen? RDR2 already looks better and has more systems going on

Being “fast” isn’t some insane feat

 

[GymWolf]

But gta6 wont push the fast traversal of spiderman. But when Chiefdada made that excuse, you dismissed it.

I am not disagreeing with you. I literally said that it will NOT have next gen visuals and will push simulations. However, I am just consistent whereas you pick and choose which game is allowed to have last gen visuals if they are pushing simulations. Spiderman 2 has a massive leap in traffic density, and NPC interactions. I never once saw you praise let alone say hey the visuals took a hit because of the other things they pushed.

And spidey 2 wasted all the sauce on that and it's ok for the type of game, i would have loved 20% less speed and 20% more detail and physics but here we are.

Gta can have way slower traversal but go big on simulations.

And let's be real, chief never agreed that sp2 look middling because it has fast traversal dude, he is here posting gifs and saying how the game look like fucking cg or movies, come the fuck on.

And again with this leap in npcs interactions....dude it's a leap(?) Compared to shitty spidey 1, not a leap compared to even old games where you actually interact with cars and pedestrians, it is not as impressive as you think.

Oh wow they added more cars and npcs that still act worse than 2d gta on ps1, mind blowing...

If you remember, i was not impressed by matrix demo traffic simulation neither, i just don't find a couple more cars on screen to be a jump of any kind, we all have our priorities in graphic, you get crazy for more cars and traffic simulation, i could not care less about it, i was ok with the car density on infamous 3 (and sp2 has the most basic traffic simulation, no incidents or people go crazy etc.)

 

[SlimySnake]

And spidey 2 wasted all the sauce on that and it's ok for the type of game, i would have loved 20% less speed and 20% more detail and physics but here we are.

Gta can have way slower traversal but go big on simulations.

And let's be real, chief never agreed that sp2 look middling because it has fast traversal dude, he is here posting gifs and saying how the game look like fucking cg or movies, come the fuck on.

lol well thats chiefdada but i also had the same arguments with you.

I have no doubt Rockstar will embarrass Spidey 2 with its physics, simulations and other world detail, but they make one game every 7 years and have all 3,000 devs working on it. Meanwhile insomniac is like a mcdonalds studios releasing a game every 2 years with just 200-300 people working on it at once. Rockstar has 10x more resources and 3x more time. Of course they will do more. They should. And they should be held to a higher standard for that reason.

That said, I have lowered my standards since the start of this year, and if i get PS4.5 visuals like cyberpunk with next gen simulations then I will be ok with it. I just hope you guys trashing spiderman 2 will be there shitting on GTA6's last gen asset quality next month when the trailer comes out and doesnt have the same level of asset fidelity as AW2 and Robocop.

 

[setoman]

 

[alloush]

Lmao forget that dude, rockstar has never been good at that.

Unless you mean ia, reactions etc.

You gotta be joking, son!

 

[GymWolf]

lol well thats chiefdada but i also had the same arguments with you.

I have no doubt Rockstar will embarrass Spidey 2 with its physics, simulations and other world detail, but they make one game every 7 years and have all 3,000 devs working on it. Meanwhile insomniac is like a mcdonalds studios releasing a game every 2 years with just 200-300 people working on it at once. Rockstar has 10x more resources and 3x more time. Of course they will do more. They should. And they should be held to a higher standard for that reason.

That said, I have lowered my standards since the start of this year, and if i get PS4.5 visuals like cyberpunk with next gen simulations then I will be ok with it. I just hope you guys trashing spiderman 2 will be there shitting on GTA6's last gen asset quality next month when the trailer comes out and doesnt have the same level of asset fidelity as AW2 and Robocop.

Dude i shit on my fucking gotg, you think i'm gonna have sweet words if assets look like shit?

My last posts were an advertisement for people who have misplaced hope for the graphic of gta6, i'm the realist here.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

I wonder how city in the next GTA will compare to Saint Denis. I think RDR2 is starting to age and age fast.

 

[GymWolf]

You gotta be joking, son!

Rockstar has ever been good at making characters models and npcs models?

Even arthur that is by far the best model in rdr2 is nowhere to be seen when people discussed great models last gen except some timid post here and there that was easily dismissed because one character is not enough.

They have this stylized style for characters that works in their games but it is not exactly cutting edge to look at.

I expect good to great main characters and that's it, everything else is grasso che cola as we say in italy.

Happy to eat crow but i don't think so, i'm just talking about graphic, not ia, interactions, animations etc.

 

[alloush]

Rockstar has ever been good at making characters models and npcs models?

Even arthur that is by far the best model in rdr2 is nowhere to be seen when people discussed great models last gen except some timid post here and there that was easily dismissed because one character is not enough.

They have this stylized style for characters that works in their games.

I expect good to great main characters and that's it, everything else is grasso che cola as we say in italy.

Happy to eat crow but i don't think so.

Oh you meant character model wise? my bad Gym, I thought you meant in terms of NPC behavior, interaction etc. If character models what you are after then yes they aint the best at that which is weird. I would like to see improved NPC behavior and models, I wanna see them walking in groups of 2/3/4 even more. Entering/exiting stores and buildings, getting into altercations with each other, I want to see kids as well lol publishers are far too afraid to include them, just make them untouchable in the sense you cannot shoot them or run them over for example. I could go on forever on adding to the list of improvements they could add to NPCs, I am not necessarily just addressing Rockstar but every other publisher.

Having said that, RDR2 had by far the best NPCs ever made in a videogame in terms of interactions, behavior, AI etc. They raised the bar hella for NPCs with RDR2, let's see if they can top that with GTA6.

Also I don't agree with another point you made, which is R* worlds are not detailed? Gym you're my boi but you iz crazy for that one. Still love you though no homo!

 

[GymWolf]

Oh you meant character model wise? my bad Gym, I thought you meant in terms of NPC behavior, interaction etc. If character models what you are after then yes they aint the best at that which is weird. I would like to see improved NPC behavior and models, I wanna see them walking in groups of 2/3/4 even more. Entering/exiting stores and buildings, getting into altercations with each other, I want to see kids as well lol publishers are far too afraid to include them, just make them untouchable in the sense you cannot shoot them or run them over for example. I could go on forever on adding to the list of improvements they could add to NPCs, I am not necessarily just addressing Rockstar but every other publisher.

Having said that, RDR2 had by far the best NPCs ever made in a videogame in terms of interactions, behavior, AI etc. They raised the bar hella for NPCs with RDR2, let's see if they can top that with GTA6.

Also I don't agree with another point you made, which is R* worlds are not detailed? Gym you're my boi but you iz crazy for that one. Still love you though no homo!

Of course i was talking only about graphic, i thought i was abundantly clear.

You are not telling me anything new dude, i loved rdr2.

For the world thing, i was still talking about texture and assets, not the other type of details where they are king.

 

[ckstine]

I wonder how city in the next GTA will compare to Saint Denis. I think RDR2 is starting to age and age fast.

Yeah, it is, but it's still just so atmospheric and relaxing to go back to. Definitely a comfort-food game.

 

[HighPoly]

Rockstar will push systems with GTA6. Not visuals. I would say Cyberpunk level visual fidelity but the systems and simulations will be far deeper.

Maybe physics?

 

[Trilobit]

A little off topic but who else thinks that this cross-shaped menu for quick select sucks? I much prefer a wheel design because:

1) It only takes 1 button to switch it on and off, leaving 3 other buttons for other interactions
2) You can access things quicker: press and hold to get the wheel, select with a stick, let off and boom
3) You can add more items to the wheel vs. a cross. Starfield is also using a cross and it's ridiculous how many clicks you need to perform to access stuff

I strongly dislike cross-shaped menus. I had gotten used to RDR2's wheel and then launched the Arkham games. It was seriously frustrating to switch between different gadgets even if you could press diagonally, because my PS5 controller would often mistake it for just one directional button click. If I could choose I'd have wheel menu as an option in most games.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I launched tlou part 1 again just to see how it fares after aw2 on ps5…,
Jesus Christ. Have we been smoking grape juice?! It looks so much better than aw2.
Amazing detail, gi from flashlight and it even illuminates spores.
Amazing water, hdr, clean 4k at around 40 lfc unlocked fps. No grain or break up in sight. Clear ssr with perfect sharp cube maps fallback. Honestly looks better than rt.
Frankly I can’t believe how good it looks and runs. So much sharper, cleaner and faster than aw2. On console? No contest.
And dear god the dualsense use. I gotta play more than the tutorial.

Only one gripe. Joel’s face looks like ass in any shadow. Everything else and other people look good but Joel can look like a muppet. But I think it has more to do with his face than tech. Aw2 doesn’t allow you to see the face at all.

I need to try tlou2 too again since I remember it looking better than part 1 but it can’t be right.
Unless part 1 drops after the tutorial chapter, it is good looking… or rather up up there

Good points. LoU1 does look better than AW2 in most cases. Sometimes the lighting and geometry of AW2 overcomes its poor image quality and it looks better but these sacrifices to iq we keep seeing devs make is a hugely negative trend. Yes, we need the Pro consoles.

The limits of ps5/sx are obvious and I would also prefer we don't go backwards to either only 30 fps games with poor iq when we've finally made strides with 40 and 60 fps. I still want those 30 fps modes so we have options at least.

LoU1 looks both better and worse than LoU2. Some parts are held back by its 2013 bones but other's you can see some improvements over LoU2 too in lighting and detail. The image quality is fantastic in 4k. I wonder how much has truly been advanced tech wide and how much is simply resolution tho.

 

[rofif]

Good points. LoU1 does look better than AW2 in most cases. Sometimes the lighting and geometry of AW2 overcomes its poor image quality and it looks better but these sacrifices to iq we keep seeing devs make is a hugely negative trend. Yes, we need the Pro consoles.

The limits of ps5/sx are obvious and I would also prefer we don't go backwards to either only 30 fps games with poor iq when we've finally made strides with 40 and 60 fps. I still want those 30 fps modes so we have options at least.

LoU1 looks both better and worse than LoU2. Some parts are held back by its 2013 bones but other's you can see some improvements over LoU2 too in lighting and detail. The image quality is fantastic in 4k. I wonder how much has truly been advanced tech wide and how much is simply resolution tho.

Yeah tlou2 does look better in some ways than part1. Agree.
So think how much more we could get of ps5 if ps4 game is winning in some scenes...

 

[JimRyanGOAT]

robocop looks like the matrix. better than it at times.

It’s amazing how any next gen game can look amazing in certain areas


And in another area….


Robocop outside areas look like a triple A next gen game, and in other areas it looks like PS4

Even Spiderman 2 , flying above the city almost looks photorealistic at times

Yet one building up close from another angle can ruin it all

Consistency seems to the problem here

 

[Heaven Angel]

Still waiting for this type of gameplay and graphics fidelity

 

[Msamy]

I have great hopes for rockstar to show amazing real-time graphics in gta 6 trailer next month.

 

[GymWolf]

Still waiting for this type of gameplay and graphics fidelity

The only thing unbeated in that video is fire rendering\physics.

Destroying a couple of stone pillars is not that impressive anymore and characters rendering is nothing special neither in 2023.

The dragon looks as good as many dragons we already had.

I'm shit at judjying lights systems but i bet it's not more advanced than path tracing.

 

[Alexios]

]Is this Like a Dragon Gaiden intro bit in-engine?

 

[rofif]

]Is this Like a Dragon Gaiden intro bit in-engine?

This looks sick. but how many thousand yakuza games do I need to play in order to play this.

 

[Alexios]

This looks sick. but how many thousand yakuza games do I need to play in order to play this.

You can start with Like a Dragon then move on to Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth and ignore everything else as it's a fresh start (even with nods and story bits tying to previous games, you don't need them).

Or check out Judgment & Lost Judgment I guess.

After you get hooked you might wanna go back and play Yakuza 0, Kiwami 1 & 2, Yakuza 3, 4, 5, 6 and Gaiden.

Or start with Yakuza 0 and if you get hooked go in that order, then finally Like a Dragon, Gaiden, Infinite Wealth. Judgment/Lost Judgment whenever as they're separate.

I've done Like a Dragon and 0, have finished 1 & 2 (which were remade as Kiwami) PS2 versions aeons ago, so I'm missing 3, 4, 5, 6 before I get to Gaiden. But I'll get Gaiden for the arcade games now, just not play it until I actually play the rest of the series to that point.

0 combat is a bit outdated at this point so if you start with that don't be too harsh on the mechanics, it gets smoother/better flowing (and in some ways worse depending on if you like the styles introduced/changed or meta game progression or not). Like a Dragon and IW are turn based instead.

 

[rofif]

You can start with Like a Dragon then move on to Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth and ignore everything else.

Or check out Judgment & Lost Judgment I guess.

After you get hooked you might wanna go back and play Yakuza 0, Kiwami 1 & 2, Yakuza 3, 4, 5, 6 and Gaiden.

Or start with Yakuza 0 and if you get hooked go in that order, then finally Like a Dragon, Gaiden, Infinite Wealth. Judgment/Lost Judgment whenever as they're separate.

I've done Like a Dragon and 0, have finished 1 & 2 (which were remade as Kiwami) PS2 versions aeons ago, so I'm missing 3, 4, 5, 6 before I get to Gaiden. But I'll get Gaiden for the arcade games now, just not play it until I actually play the rest of the series to that point.

I remember watching giantbomb playthrough of yakuza 0 back in the day and it was amazing. So I know two main characters backstories I guess.
I thought Judgment are different games?
Surely I don't want to play legacy games 1,2,3,4,5,6 so on. The ps2 and upscaled ps3 games. Too late for that without nostalgia.

 

[Heaven Angel]

The only thing unbeated in that video is fire rendering\physics.

Destroying a couple of stone pillars is not that impressive anymore and characters rendering is nothing special neither in 2023.

The dragon looks as good as many dragons we already had.

I'm shit at judjying lights systems but i bet it's not more advanced than path tracing.

I feel much of the textured models are still unbeaten
The video is at 1080p max which by the looks it might feel dated but if in anyway the devs starts to develop with this in mind we might get closer to the UE5 Next-Gen Real-Time Demo textures.
We have come a long way in physics department and only Rockstar and Naughty dog has been on the top of the list but they too haven't gone so far.
The lighting system we have matched and progressing really well in that department. With path tracing and UE5 lumen it's going to get better.

 

[ckstine]

]Is this Like a Dragon Gaiden intro bit in-engine?

Not pre-rendered or in the engine. License plates and faces have been blurred. That, and the presence of real vehicles, prove that that is video.

 

[GymWolf]

I feel much of the textured models are still unbeaten
The video is at 1080p max which by the looks it might feel dated but if in anyway the devs starts to develop with this in mind we might get closer to the UE5 Next-Gen Real-Time Demo textures.
We have come a long way in physics department and only Rockstar and Naughty dog has been on the top of the list but they too haven't gone so far.
The lighting system we have matched and progressing really well in that department. With path tracing and UE5 lumen it's going to get better.

What textures are you talking about specifically?

 

[Alexios]

I remember watching giantbomb playthrough of yakuza 0 back in the day and it was amazing. So I know two main characters backstories I guess.
I thought Judgment are different games?
Surely I don't want to play legacy games 1,2,3,4,5,6 so on. The ps2 and upscaled ps3 games. Too late for that without nostalgia.

I mean, 0 was on PS3 too, if that was fine for you the rest are too, some better some worse but overall similar quality. 6 onward left that gen behind. Kiwami 1 & 2 are remakes (1 is on PS3 too, 2 not) of 1 & 2 so, no need to go down to PS2 level.

Yes, Judgment are separate games so you can play to experience what (more modern but not turn based like the upcoming and last one, so like Gaiden instead) Yakuza is like without committing to the whole saga or starting from Like a Dragon.

 

[Heaven Angel]

What textures are you talking about specifically?

Dragon and fire details

 

[nkarafo]

Is it controversial to say that robocop city looks better from ground view than sp2?

I mean controversial for anyone not called chiefdata.

Yeah but, is that fog that i see? Is it always there? Because it would be much easier to make better looking assets when you only have to render so much.

 

[Fbh]

But most games releasing today are well over 1080p base that we played with all gen last gen. So what changed? Did the Pro consoles raise standards and expectations? If so, then wait for pro consoles that should be arriving by next year.

The base PS4 games were mostly 1080p with some third parties targeting 900p as early as 2013 and 2014 when ryse, watch dogs, ac unity, and bf4 all targeted 900p. Nowadays most games are native 4k to 1440p fsr upscaled to 4k. There are rare exceptions like Star Wars and Alan Wake 2, but i would say too many games are targeting native 4k.

Last gen also didnt have to worry about offering 60 fps modes because the CPUs were too weak but now we are finally getting them and then complaining when they drop below 1080p. why? everyone and their mothers knows that 60 fps comes at a cost, and if you dont like that cost, stick with 30 fps.

I think Alan Wake will have its shimmering sorted out and will look fine. I agree that anything below 1440p is probably too low for 30 fps, but AW2's issues are mostly to do with poor AA that can be resolved like they were in Horizon FW. Even Star Wars was recently patched to improve performance and now its 30 fps mode runs at 1440p internal resolution without any shimmering.

I think games with good AA will be fine even at 1080p internal resolution. Just look at Returnal. its soft but no sihmmering or fsr artifcating you see in AW2 which has a much higher base resolution. Fix the AA and you will be fine. Horizon's 60 fps mode is way cleaner than AW2 despite being the same resolution. Downgrading the effects will completely change the look of the game for the worse for everyone. just look at the avatar downgrade from the first trailer. done persumably because the consoles are just not powerful enough to run those visuals. The PC gamers also had their games downgraded. thats not fair to them either.

Well for me personally it's about diminishing returns.
It feels like each "HD" gen so far the question has been "do you want better graphics or last gen graphics at higher resolutions and framerates?". So far my answer has always been "better graphics", but I think this gen I've finally reached the point where that's no longer true, or rather I think games have reached the graphical fidelity level where improvements just don't feel as massive anymore to me (on console).
Sticking with 30fps and 900p-1080p during the Ps4 era might have been a bit disappointing but at least I still saw a big visual and/or mechanical improvement. Ultimately I still though a game like TLOU2 benefited more from looking as good as it did vs looking like TLOU remaster for the sake of running at 60fps. BF4 was 900p but at least finally gave us the proper 64 player experience on console, etc

This gen though, I'm just not seeing it.
Alan Wake 2 on Ps5 (not the maxed out PC version on a 4090) just doesn't look good enough for me to prefer those graphics at 30fps (or 60ish FPS at 872p) vs a game with the graphics of TLOU2 at native 1440p and locked 60fps.
Personally I'll even take something like GOW Ragnarok VS FFXVI. The only amazing looking thing in XVI were the cutscenes, but nothing about the gameplay looked remotely good enough that I'd rather get new games with those graphics at upscaled 1080p and 30fps vs the visuals of Ragnarok at native 1440p and 60-80fps.

Also is the Forbidden West performance mode really just 872p? I mean if devs can get their 60fps modes looking as sharp as Forbidden West then I don't mind, I think it's still by far the gold standard this gen of reaching the perfect balance between visuals, performance and image quality. But so far that's far from the case in most games I've played/seen this year.

 

[SlimySnake]

Well for me personally it's about diminishing returns.
It feels like each "HD" gen so far the question has been "do you want better graphics or last gen graphics at higher resolutions and framerates?". So far my answer has always been "better graphics", but I think this gen I've finally reached the point where that's no longer true, or rather I think games have reached the graphical fidelity level where improvements just don't feel as massive anymore to me (on console).
Sticking with 30fps and 900p-1080p during the Ps4 era might have been a bit disappointing but at least I still saw a big visual and/or mechanical improvement. Ultimately I still though a game like TLOU2 benefited more from looking as good as it did vs looking like TLOU remaster for the sake of running at 60fps. BF4 was 900p but at least finally gave us the proper 64 player experience on console, etc

This gen though, I'm just not seeing it.
Alan Wake 2 on Ps5 (not the maxed out PC version on a 4090) just doesn't look good enough for me to prefer those graphics at 30fps (or 60ish FPS at 872p) vs a game with the graphics of TLOU2 at native 1440p and locked 60fps.
Personally I'll even take something like GOW Ragnarok VS FFXVI. The only amazing looking thing in XVI were the cutscenes, but nothing about the gameplay looked remotely good enough that I'd rather get new games with those graphics at upscaled 1080p and 30fps vs the visuals of Ragnarok at native 1440p and 60-80fps.

Also is the Forbidden West performance mode really just 872p? I mean if devs can get their 60fps modes looking as sharp as Forbidden West then I don't mind, I think it's still by far the gold standard this gen of reaching the perfect balance between visuals, performance and image quality. But so far that's far from the case in most games I've played/seen this year.

Hfw performance mode is 1800p checkerboard which is roughly the same pixels as 4k fsr balanced you see in alan wake 2. They also had the shimmering in that mode but were able to clean it up.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Not pre-rendered or in the engine. License plates and faces have been blurred. That, and the presence of real vehicles, prove that that is video.

First people can’t tell the difference between 3D and a flat texture and now they can’t tell the difference between real life video footage and video game. This thread never disappoints.

 

[GymWolf]

Dragon and fire details

Fire sure, i said the same but the dragon doesn't really stand out compared to the dragons we had in other game, gow 2018 comes to mind.

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah but, is that fog that i see? Is it always there? Because it would be much easier to make better looking assets when you only have to render so much.

I didn't noticed too much fog while playing tbh.

Other people who are still playing the game can answer more precisely.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Yeah but, is that fog that i see? Is it always there? Because it would be much easier to make better looking assets when you only have to render so much.

No, it’s specific to this time of day. You revisit this area 3 times and each time lighting is different.

 

[SimTourist]

But gta6 wont push the fast traversal of spiderman.

I don't know where you're getting this, but GTA will have planes and fast cars that have to move fast in dense traffic and street level high LoD while SM2 can get away with low LoDs when you're swinging high above the city. Not to mention all the actual traffic and pedestian logic and behaviour which SM2 has zero of.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

But gta6 wont push the fast traversal of spiderman. But when Chiefdada made that excuse, you dismissed it.

It's safe to assume that next GTA will have planes, just like in V. GTA planes are slow, even fighter jet is capped to like 200 MPH but I think it's still comparable fast to Spider-Man traversal speeds.