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Don’t understand the general dislike for Windows PC handhelds. They are leagues above the Deck.

I think a lot of these "Windows handhelds have MOAR POWARRRR therefore they are better" people lost the plot a long time ago.

No one apparently remembers that the Steam Deck exists because of the Nintendo Switch. Everyone knows how powerful the hardware is on the Switch. And yet the Switch is now the 3rd best selling game console of all time. So hardware power means fuck all when it comes to portable gaming systems, what matter is convenience and QoL and the Switch nails that and the Steam Deck nails that.

I personally hate Windows even on desktop and laptop PC's, because it's just a giant mass of spaghetti code dating back 40 years to maintain compatibility with legacy desktop and corporate applications and the whole thing is kludges built on top of kludges to make sure your obscure corporate accounting application still works. Why the fuck would I want to run Windows on a handheld? Steam OS is a nice clean slate, built on top of a basic Linux kernel and then optimized just for playing games. The Horizon OS on Switch is simpler still, it's actually built from the 3DS system software and it does exactly one thing and does it well, play games.

The Switch is also amazing because I just drop the thing onto the dock and instantly I'm playing on my TV, there is nothing I need to do. Games adapt immediately and provide improved resolution where available, It Just Works™. I don't know how plugging the Steam Deck or the Windows handhelds compares to that, but the Switch is designed from the ground up with the hybrid use in mind, you never have to do anything besides put it on the dock. That's something only Nintendo can do because they control the entire hardware design and software stack, and it's something all the other handhelds should aspire to.

I understand why people put up with Windows on a gaming PC. I have no clue why anyone would want to suffer the Windows/PC life on a gaming handheld when there is any other option. The entire point of a console is that it's a (generally) non-changing target spec, and very efficiently made for a specific purpose. Then you have these handhelds that are a worse experience and somehow more expensive! Throwing Windows on there and all of its annoyances baffles the mind.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Best Buy has the 512 GB non-Extreme Ally for $200 off right now. $399 for that isn't really all that bad, IMO.
 
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Fredrik

Member
I think a lot of these "Windows handhelds have MOAR POWARRRR therefore they are better" people lost the plot a long time ago.

No one apparently remembers that the Steam Deck exists because of the Nintendo Switch. Everyone knows how powerful the hardware is on the Switch. And yet the Switch is now the 3rd best selling game console of all time. So hardware power means fuck all when it comes to portable gaming systems, what matter is convenience and QoL and the Switch nails that and the Steam Deck nails that.

I personally hate Windows even on desktop and laptop PC's, because it's just a giant mass of spaghetti code dating back 40 years to maintain compatibility with legacy desktop and corporate applications and the whole thing is kludges built on top of kludges to make sure your obscure corporate accounting application still works. Why the fuck would I want to run Windows on a handheld? Steam OS is a nice clean slate, built on top of a basic Linux kernel and then optimized just for playing games. The Horizon OS on Switch is simpler still, it's actually built from the 3DS system software and it does exactly one thing and does it well, play games.

The Switch is also amazing because I just drop the thing onto the dock and instantly I'm playing on my TV, there is nothing I need to do. Games adapt immediately and provide improved resolution where available, It Just Works™. I don't know how plugging the Steam Deck or the Windows handhelds compares to that, but the Switch is designed from the ground up with the hybrid use in mind, you never have to do anything besides put it on the dock. That's something only Nintendo can do because they control the entire hardware design and software stack, and it's something all the other handhelds should aspire to.
I have no issues with Windows on the desktop PC, for me it just works. But for a handheld or living room device I don’t want a Windows experience, they need to slim it down to some Xbox 360 blades like big screen thing first.

And yeah Steam Deck is essentially a Steam Switch. And with the dock it’s a traditional console too, just pair it with your preferred controller and it’s 100% a console experience. People really don’t understand how close Valve is to pull the rug under both Sony and Microsoft. It’s the perfect PC gaming companion for both comfy couch and bed gaming, same purchases, same saves, can even use mods, and Sony and MS 1st party games are there (tho not always verified). Power is an issue but it’ll improve going forward. I think it’s an amazing device and platform and worth every bit of hype it has and more.
 

GHG

Member
That dudes a Gaf mark and will just parrot the gaf meta to farm reactions. I wouldn't expect a considered answer.

Billy Crystal Crying GIF by MOODMAN


Love you too darling.
 

Aces High

Member
I wish PC gaming could move away from Windows.

It's an awfully slow snd underperforming OS and what's even worse is that Windows 11 uploads all your data to Microsoft headquarters 24/7.

Even if you go max data protection in the settings, you can use tools like Wireshark to easily track that Microsoft is still uploading your private data all the time. And if you identify and block the respective ports, Windows 11 will detect that countermeasure and go into super slow mode until you let it upload you private data again.
 

Topher

Gold Member
I wish PC gaming could move away from Windows.

It's an awfully slow snd underperforming OS and what's even worse is that Windows 11 uploads all your data to Microsoft headquarters 24/7.

Even if you go max data protection in the settings, you can use tools like Wireshark to easily track that Microsoft is still uploading your private data all the time. And if you identify and block the respective ports, Windows 11 will detect that countermeasure and go into super slow mode until you let it upload you private data again.

My coworker is a networking administrator and clued me in on all the data Windows was transmitting elsewhere. After that I moved to Linux as my main desktop OS.
 
I bought the Steam Deck as it made the most fiscal sense to me. Steam Deck 64 GB + 1 TB SSD + 512 GB micro SD + Dock + Screen protector all under 450 GBP is what I opted for. I do not play Destiny, CoD, Fortnite, Genshin, etc. so Steam OS has been great for me. Currently playing through R&C on the Deck docked without any issues. It looks good enough. The one handheld I would avoid would be the Go, even if it was cheap, it is just too bulky for handheld gaming IMO.
 
I'd rather not pay for a device where a windows licence up the price by a substantial.

I'm sure Windows on these handhelds is good once the manufacture has figured out the right drivers for their said device.

I can't wait to see what happens to these PC handhelds if the Super Switch ends up being more powerful with better battery life due to being ARM and not x86
With 7 years to cook one would hope it's gonna be nice.


Best Buy has the 512 GB non-Extreme Ally for $200 off right now. $399 for that isn't really all that bad, IMO.
Pretty sure these are on all the returned models they are sitting on due to the QA issues the Ally was having. I can remember seeing a post on their reddit by a Best Buy staff saying these things were being returned on the daily. Not sure if that's still the case. But that's a big price cut for sure. Risk it or just get a Steam deck? LOL
 
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Fredrik

Member
I'd rather not pay for a device where a windows licence up the price by a substantial.

I'm sure Windows on these handhelds is good once the manufacture has figured out the right drivers for their said device.
Microsoft could do their own Windows handhelds with a nice snappy OS and drivers tailor-made for those devices. Sell it like a Gamepass handheld. And don’t lock it down like an Xbox, keep it open. And make it dockable. Gamepass Switch.
 

thief183

Member
I will never buy an handheld that has not Windows on it. The convenience of having a gaming pc and a "work" PC in my task is way bigger than this corporation shill that I see toward valve (I hate valve and will continue to hate them until they releas a stripped down version of steam, I don't need a forum, a social bs, profile and all those bloat, I just want to launch my games without loosing resources)
 

KungFucius

King Snowflake
What is there not to understand. Most PC gamers are used to desktops with HW optimized for performance. They don't care about portables. Then you have people who have the Deck, and since the Deck is a product with a brandname, a significant fraction of those who own it suffer from fanboyism and must fight for the device's honor by shitting on other products that are similar.
 

Kenpachii

Member
I run windows on the deck, i use it mostly to play they are billions and heroes of the storm and on windows its flawless and better performance. on steamOS its a shit show.

Shit just works on windows, install and play. on steamOS u need to tinker a ton in games that are not entirely supported to get shit rolling.
 
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Bojanglez

The Amiga Brotherhood
Depends on the user. People who love to tinker might prefer a windows system. People who want plug and play are going to hate a windows system. Deck is the way to go for most people.
Deck is the best of both worlds, if you want an out of the box experience it is console-like. But if you love to tinker, the OS is fully open and you can do what you want.

I admit that there is an issue with compatibility on Deck, obviously not everything works, but the dream is one day people will realise the future is Linux.
 

Gamezone

Gold Member
There are more compatible games on Windows handhelp, but the Rog Ally took like 2 hours to set up becuase of every update, while the Deck was ready to go in 10 minutes. It's just a pain in the ass, and Microsoft must introduce a handheld mode, and that's fast.
 

TheStam

Member
I was briefly considering the Ally, but went with the Steam Deck OLED since I loved my LCD before i broke it. The one thing they have going for it that I'm jealous of is VRR and a bit more performance, but you have to be plugged in to get the most benefit. I don't like Gamepass but I guess for some it would be a plus as well.

The Steam Deck is a really well configured product both on the hardware and software side and Valve are really dedicated to updates and improvements. Screen and Battery life rather than raw performance makes a lot of sense for a handheld. Of course you notice OLED and 1000 max nits HDR even on a7.4 inch screen, it is great.

I have a PC for heavier games so for me the Steam Deck is an awesome companion, but I might get an alternative one day. It really would need to have OLED + decent battery life + trackpads though.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Pretty sure these are on all the returned models they are sitting on due to the QA issues the Ally was having. I can remember seeing a post on their reddit by a Best Buy staff saying these things were being returned on the daily. Not sure if that's still the case. But that's a big price cut for sure. Risk it or just get a Steam deck? LOL
The open box models are $299. To be totally transparent I returned mine, but it was still at launch price when I did. I might consider rebuying at this price.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Despite it being more necessary, all these windows handhelds don't have a trackpad but the Steam Deck does.

Let that sink in.

I believe his Legion Go has a trackpad.

Also nearly 50 posts and no mention of HDR.

There's simply no comparison with HDR games, doubly so those that run at 60fps or 90fps (like PS5 streaming + HDR).

Pretty much any game the Deck runs at 60fps or any game it runs at 40fps + HDR is a no-contest win for the Deck IMO (so like almost all indies and PS4/Switch/PC games). The visuals are just too good on the OLED w/ HDR.

Not exactly a compelling point since the vast majority of Deck owners have the LCD display with no HDR and the worst screen of all the major handhelds on the market.
“just buy a Deck” has been the mantra long before the OLED was announced.

You're assuming most people care about those two games and gamepass because...?

Those are popular games, along with other stuff like FIFA.
Probably a more credible assumption than yours about the trackpad, tbh.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
I can't wait to see what happens to these PC handhelds if the Super Switch ends up being more powerful with better battery life due to being ARM and not x86
These things get pumped out every other day. They'll be cutting edge for a while. And even then, it isn't about power, it's about the library
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Turns on handheld - game left suspended full screen from directly in the game (good luck with that too) to instantly resume is gone, system is restarted without permission (for mandatory monthly updates, cannot postpone indefinitely). You are staring at a login screen against your will.

That's definitely number 1 for me.

The updates stuff is somewhat overblown, since a monthly update is still rather infrequent. Stability of game suspension and resumption is the big one for a handheld…it’s something I’ve come to take for granted with my Deck that I can resume with zero issues and it just works.
 

hinch7

Member
Tbh I'd rather have something to pick up and play (with proper standby and wake from game) than deal with fucking about with Windows on a tiny screen. That and have the ability to use touchpads and customisable gyro and other options tweakable on the fly. And have a UI built for it.

Plus with all that TDP (20W+) and you'll have a dead battery within an hour or so, so there's no point in higher fps on a portable device. Unless you're close to a socket or have a suitable power bank with you. Which, for me defeats the purpose of owning a handheld.
 
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Having the best of both worlds (well, almost) 1st Gen Steam Deck with Win 11 for the GOGs and the Epics and the Skyrim modding. Less tinkering on the one hand, more tinkering on the other. With a bit of the latter you can even get the screen refresh rate customized and per game profiles. Would love, to have the finances to get a second one, just to see, how Steam OS fares (no double boot for me, need that space for games :) ).
 

GHG

Member
Those are popular games, along with other stuff like FIFA.
Probably a more credible assumption than yours about the trackpad, tbh.

Just because they are popular games it doesn't mean they are well suited to a handheld, nor does it mean that the audience that is buying these types of devices are demanding the ability to play them. How is it that the Switch has done so well then?

These were the most played games on the deck last year:

  • Armored Core 6: Fires of Rubicon
  • Baldur’s Gate 3
  • Cyberpunk 2077
  • Dave the Diver
  • Elden Ring
  • Grand Theft Auto 5
  • Half-Life
  • Hogwarts Legacy
  • Resident Evil 4
  • Starfield
  • The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
  • Vampire Survivors
Not seeing much there that is similar to COD, Destiny, or even FIFA. Maybe, just maybe, the demographic and the audience for these devices is a bit different to what you and the OP are assuming?

Regarding the trackpad, the nature of the windows OS makes it a necessity for ease of navigation in the OS to even get to your games/launcher. The trackpad is also useful for games that don't have controller support. By default, SteamOS is set up in a way that most people will never even need to use a trackpad but they are included. To make matters worse, even in games that would usually require use of the trackpad due to lack of controller support there's usually a community controller profile that enables you to use everything but the trackpads if you wish. It's all deeply ironic.

The windows devices tend to be poorly thought out, especially from a user experience perspective, and many of them are jumping on the bandwagon and attempting to capitalise on the popularity of the Steam Deck rather than offering anything meaningful in the way of innovation.

The moment SteamOS is fully available for devices other than the deck it's pretty likely we will stop seeing these devices shipping with Windows. That should tell you everything you need to know.
 
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64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
The moment SteamOS is fully available for devices other than the deck it's pretty likely we will stop seeing these devices shipping with Windows
Don't be so ready to declare this. Steamos is being relegated to other companies budget models and while I think it could make some real headway, this idea that it'll replace windows on other handhelds isn't very likely. Windows is simply too well known for companies to do that.
 
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Reactions: GHG

GHG

Member
Don't be so ready to declare this. Steamos is being relegated to other companies budget models and while I think it could make some real headway, this idea that it'll replace windows on other handhelds isn't very likely. Windows is simply too well known for companies to do that.

I think the biggest hurdle will be the fact that the likes of Asus, Lenovo, MSI, etc have long standing licensing and vendor agreements with Microsoft for Windows and even things like office.

But if people demand it they will have no choice if they actually want to sell a meaningful amount of these devices.
 
I think the biggest hurdle will be the fact that the likes of Asus, Lenovo, MSI, etc have long standing licensing and vendor agreements with Microsoft for Windows and even things like office.

But if people demand it they will have no choice if they actually want to sell a meaningful amount of these devices.
All these devices will be jailbroken in due time. I foresee custom linux OS things on there or even dualboot possibilities. It's a temporary restriction.
 

tusharngf

Member
I can't wait to see what happens to these PC handhelds if the Super Switch ends up being more powerful with better battery life due to being ARM and not x86
ARM is future for mobile devices sooner or later there will be powerful ARM soc's. Nvidia is even developing arm processors soon.
 

Roxkis_ii

Member
Window portable devices have existed since Windows xp (as far as I know) and ain't no one care about them until the steam deck came out and for good reason. A jack of all trades is a master of none.

I think I remember using a touch screen device with windows 10 and having to manually bring up the on screen keyboard everytime I needed to type something. It's little stuff like that - that isn't a worry about for software made specifically for a device.

Windows on portal devices is like sticking a circle in a star shaped hole, yeah it technically fits, but your probably not getting the best use of your device.
 

Esppiral

Member
I just bought a Steam Deck a couple weeks ago just because * found a good deal for 320€ extra storage, case and dock, the only reason I didn't buy any of the other alternatives 8s the price. I am fine with playing on windows, the Steam OS is nothing spectacular either
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Just because they are popular games it doesn't mean they are well suited to a handheld, nor does it mean that the audience that is buying these types of devices are demanding the ability to play them. How is it that the Switch has done so well then?

These were the most played games on the deck last year:

  • Armored Core 6: Fires of Rubicon
  • Baldur’s Gate 3
  • Cyberpunk 2077
  • Dave the Diver
  • Elden Ring
  • Grand Theft Auto 5
  • Half-Life
  • Hogwarts Legacy
  • Resident Evil 4
  • Starfield
  • The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
  • Vampire Survivors
Not seeing much there that is similar to COD, Destiny, or even FIFA. Maybe, just maybe, the demographic and the audience for these devices is a bit different to what you and the OP are assuming?

Hard to determine if those games would show up there since they don’t work on the Deck. Not sure how you’re expecting to find something similar to FIFA when it’s pretty much the only viable football game on PC.

Does this list invalidate your comments about the trackpads, since pretty much all of them can be played quite comfortably with joysticks?

Regarding the trackpad, the nature of the windows OS makes it a necessity for ease of navigation in the OS to even get to your games/launcher. The trackpad is also useful for games that don't have controller support. By default, SteamOS is set up in a way that most people will never even need to use a trackpad but they are included.

the Windows handhelds boot directly to the Games library overlay, though. Or at least that’s how they’re supposed to work. So the likes of Armor Crate and Legion Space which are controller friendly alternatives to Big Picture, and which have all the alternative launchers built in.

For Windows Desktop use, joysticks can be a drag. I haven’t used any of the Windows handhelds yet, only dualbooted my old LCD deck into a painful Windows 10 experience but that’s not comparable since I never fully set it up properly.


The windows devices tend to be poorly thought out, especially from a user experience perspective, and many of them are jumping on the bandwagon and attempting to capitalise on the popularity of the Steam Deck rather than offering anything meaningful in the way of innovation.

Really? Every Windows handheld has shipped with their own take on Big Picture, and between the Legion Go and the Ally there’s clearly a lot of thought put into hardware differentiation.


The moment SteamOS is fully available for devices other than the deck it's pretty likely we will stop seeing these devices shipping with Windows. That should tell you everything you need to know.

I’m not sure how an assumed scenario that hasn’t played out yet is supposed to tell me everything I need to know. The chatter was that Proton would see a meaningful change in Linux share of Steam gamers on Desktop, but most of the growth to the current 2% seems driven by Steamdeck.

The ideal would be for every device to support dualboot between both OSes, including SteamDeck. Let consumers make the informed choice themselves. Still waiting for Valve to make good on their promises in that regard.
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Having been loyal to a brand, I think with the steam deck is it’s a known video game distribution center. I don’t know why people choose Apple over windows phones or when it comes to gaming handhelds.!
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Window portable devices have existed since Windows xp (as far as I know) and ain't no one care about them until the steam deck came out and for good reason. A jack of all trades is a master of none.

Most of them were really pricey and had poor battery life. The AmD APUs and Valve’s competitive pricing unlocked that space.

We had a thread about the Alienware Concept UFO device running Windows back in 2020. The responses were almost unanimously positive.


I think I remember using a touch screen device with windows 10 and having to manually bring up the on screen keyboard everytime I needed to type something. It's little stuff like that - that isn't a worry about for software made specifically for a device.

Have you used a SteamDeck? You have to press Steam Button + X to bring up the keyboard in every text field. How’s that any different?
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Meanwhile, Switch owners spend less and have more fun.

I go to the SteamDeck subreddit and people seem to be enjoying the Nintendo back catalogue on their decks via Emudeck, running at high resolutions and what not, without having to pay subscription fees or drops from Nintendo.

Software much cheaper on Steam. Portal Collection on Switch is $19.99. $1.99 on Steam a couple of days ago.

Nah.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Not exactly a compelling point since the vast majority of Deck owners have the LCD display with no HDR and the worst screen of all the major handhelds on the market.
“just buy a Deck” has been the mantra long before the OLED was announced.

That doesn't negate HDR as a feature at all though. "Just buy a deck" is the argument that wasn't compelling.

All these devices will be jailbroken in due time. I foresee custom linux OS things on there or even dualboot possibilities. It's a temporary restriction.

None of the handhelds have to be jailbroken to install other operating systems or dualboot. I tried out Chimera OS on my Rog Ally when I had it.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
I go to the SteamDeck subreddit and people seem to be enjoying the Nintendo back catalogue on their decks via Emudeck, running at high resolutions and what not, without having to pay subscription fees or drops from Nintendo.

Software much cheaper on Steam. Portal Collection on Switch is $19.99. $1.99 on Steam a couple of days ago.

Nah.
SlimeGooGoo SlimeGooGoo enjoys doing a bit of trolling. He is also a diehard nintendo guy
 

Ozriel

M$FT
That doesn't negate HDR as a feature at all though. "Just buy a deck" is the argument that wasn't compelling.

Yeah, I wasn’t trying to say HDR wasn’t a compelling addition, or insufficient reason to buy a Deck. I bought Ori 2 just last week purely as a HDR/OLED showcase even though I’ve got it on GP.
 
That doesn't negate HDR as a feature at all though. "Just buy a deck" is the argument that wasn't compelling.



None of the handhelds have to be jailbroken to install other operating systems or dualboot. I tried out Chimera OS on my Rog Ally when I had it.
Ah well then there IS a advantage having a Windows based system. Is the Ally x86 based? Color me interested!!
 

AndrewRyan

Member
Windows handheld owners are in for a rude awakening when version 2 of your shiny hardware is released and the manufacturer forgets you exist or how to update drivers.
 

Dr.D00p

Member
I never buy 1st generation hardware, so whilst I'd prefer a Ally or Go for the freedom that Windows offers for tinkering with everything I'd still get a Steam Deck OLED today because its now as good as its going to get until Deck 2 comes along.

Both the Ally and Go need similar updates to fix their issues before I'd lay money down for either and I'd put money on an updated Ally coming in 2024.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Windows handheld owners are in for a rude awakening when version 2 of your shiny hardware is released and the manufacturer forgets you exist or how to update drivers.
tbf deck is a very first gen product in it design and i can imagine that when deck 2 arrives years from now it's all going to but replace the deck 1.

But Valve actually has long hardware cycles unlike all the other dudes pumping out machines like their life depends on it, so I can imagine that it'll at least be longer before your shiny Deck hardware becomes obsolete
 
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