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MarkMe2525
Member
I believe dolphin was originally released in 2002 or 2003. At one point, it was current gen emulation.
Edit: Wiki says 2003
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Thaedolus
Member
If someone buys a VHS and does anything other than play it on a VCR, who actually gives a shit? The people who produced the tape got paid. If I modify a Betamax player or a laser pointer to play back a VHS tape, how is the movie company harmed in any way?
Pointing to 1 million downloads of TotK prior to launch and saying a) these are direct 1:1 losses for the company (they’re not, a lot of people bought it and just wanted to play early) and b) it’s directly attributable to Yuzu (it’s not, Nintendo’s hardware has been broken wide open for years and years now) is ludicrous.
If Yuzu infringed on copyrights or took illegal shortcuts, that’s one thing. But reverse engineered emulation is totally fine.
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coffinbirth
Member
Nintendo is rightfully scared shitless of Yuzu 2: Electric Boogaloo.
AREYOUOKAY?
Member
I can already imagine the comments here if there was a PS4, PS5, or Xbox Series X emulator and that was done.
“Based Sony and Microsoft! Good job protecting your sales so you don’t have to lay off anymore workers!”
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
In this case, wildly open to the interpretation of the law. Since the games themselves are encrypted, and have to be decrypted to be emulated, and decrypting them is (technically) illegal, emulation is illegal. BUT also in this case, the decryption keys are stored on hardware you (presumably) own, which you're legally allowed to modify and do with as you please, ultimately making emulation legal.
Emulation in the past wasn't as convoluted, because the games themselves weren't encrypted and signed - every copy of the game was identical, vs here where every copy of the game is essentially unique.
I've personally ripped around two hundred Switch games I own from cartridges, and backed them up for future use. Mostly so that I can play them on my own Switch hardware - but potentially in the future when that hardware wears out and there's no alternative, so that I can play the games I've purchased on a PC.
Sentenza
Member
Best clown take on the discussion so far.
Buggy Loop
Member
Weird timing, maybe Switch 2 is so iterative they hope to kill Yuzu (and then Ryujinx and whatever else pops up) before it's released and emulates it? Weird they never went after Dolphin/Citra devs as folks say the former includes Nintendo property in the form of decryption keys or something (stopping Steam release). Fee wise Yuzu (and any Nintendo emulator dev if popular as Nintendo emulation is the most desired by people who refuse to buy systems and games) can probably garner enough funds to lawyer up by just asking the community, if that's a viable route, drumming up support for their cause. Whether they actually have a leg to stand on legally is another matter I guess, we'll see what happens but it will probably go to court given this (unless Yuzu is adviced they will probably lose regardless of money so they decide to settle out of court).
Yeah, hate Nintendo and its 98.8% employee retention rate where its actual developers-slash-CEOs take responsibility with pay cuts to appease bloodthirsty shareholders over mass layoffs and love the others, puh-lease. If the other systems were emulated like this they'd have sued them as well and you know it. Sony did sue those who cracked the PS3 master key (and wanted to expand to everyone downloading files from them iIrc) as the most recent example.
Beyond that they had other bright ideas like some rootkit DRM on their music albums or whatever. So much more pro-consumer. They've also sued Internet Archive, lol.
Sony goes to court to get PS3 key crackers to shut up already
Sony is hoping to stuff the genie back into the bottle as it seeks a …arstechnica.com
This is just capitalism, not a case of any one company being inherently more evil than any other, when the circumstances arise they're all exactly the same folks, don't idolize any of them.
Remember the Sony rootkit scandal? It was almost much worse
That time Rootkitting for Dummies might as well have been in Microsoft's Plus! Packwww.theregister.com
Backward compatibility is already an easy door open..
MisterXDTV
Member
I think it's absolutely fair that Nintendo tries to protect their interests, just like it's fair talented people make emulators, just as long as they don't try to make profits from it
I would say the same for Sony and Nintendo
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
If you own a PC capable of running Switch games at 4k you are most certainly not poor
Nah they're definitely poor, all they could purchase was their little PC so actually buying anything else would bankrupt them. Sad
Same ol G
Member
If Nintendo finally sues them after all this time they probably think they have a case.
Or somehow they have evidence that their own code is being used.
Just wanting to point this out for the people saying they'll never win, they are not stupid no matter what people like to think.
Or somehow they have evidence that their own code is being used.
Just wanting to point this out for the people saying they'll never win, they are not stupid no matter what people like to think.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
600 - 1000 dollar PC but we're unable to afford a 70 buck game? Make it make sense
Topher
Gold Member
This is interesting. Think this stuff is important because, although the vast majority are more than likely pirating software, there are quite a number of us who want to be able to play software, legally, where ever we please. Regardless, it is important to be legal about this, imo.
StereoVsn
Member
Yep, half the time I rip games from my OG Switch and play through emulation. Same for 3DS, DS, GameCube and most other retro systems.
I do still have PS2, PS3 and Dreamcast hooked up, but really only mainly fire up PS3 as emulation for everything else is pretty great.
Pejo
Member
Somebody tweet Elon and see if he'll hire lawyers for Yuzu to fight this.
I haven't read enough about the allegations from Nintendo but it's one thing for them to claim numbers of downloads and money lost due to emulators, but it's another thing entirely to prove it in court.
I'd have to assume this is them bullying Yuzu creators into not even taking it to court.
In my opinion, Yuzu setting up a Patreon was its biggest mistake, but I need to read more about this before I make any kneejerk posts.
I haven't read enough about the allegations from Nintendo but it's one thing for them to claim numbers of downloads and money lost due to emulators, but it's another thing entirely to prove it in court.
I'd have to assume this is them bullying Yuzu creators into not even taking it to court.
In my opinion, Yuzu setting up a Patreon was its biggest mistake, but I need to read more about this before I make any kneejerk posts.
existensmaximum
Member
Can't blame Nintendo for trying, they're losing money because of Yuzu. Seems unlikely the court is going to agree with them tho.
Hero_Select
Member
I mean it does. Everyone wants to talk about how perfectly legal it is (so long as youre dumping your own games) but everyone chooses to ignore the fact that the number of people actually doing that is extremely small by comparison to people who hop on a torrent site and download the games illegally.
Puscifer
Member
I would only disagree about GBA and GB games because I was emulating them back in the late 90s and early 00s. For me it's more about the YEARS Yuzus been around, you would've thought for sure they'd have killed it years ago before the switch sold 100+ million units, which is why I say "why now" vs 2020And this is why it's going nowhere. At most the creators of Yuzu get a big payout by it being settled via Nintendo's side, otherwise it's just a waste of time in court. Emulators themselves don't dump the ROMs to themselves so it won't hold. Their Patreon page only takes money for code and software they made, doesn't even have the BIOs to run, you have to get your own BIOs, which means you already own a Switch. They don't link to sites with illegal BIOs dumps so can't get it to work that way either. They also don't tell people where they can download ROM files from, so they can't say that either. Those 1 million people who pirated TotK did so knowing sites they could get the ROM from before hand, but Nintendo knows they wouldn't be able to find the leaker of the ROM since they probably aren't dumb enough to take a payment for it, unless end up like Bowser.
Speaking of which, their argument for 1 million copies of TotK being pirated is quickly offset by it selling 12 million copies by now, making that 1 million seem like a drop in the bucket.
That said, let's not lie to ourselves and claim emulation isn't for pirating. It won't win them anything and they still don't have a case against Yuzu, but how often are people on the up and up with emulating new consoles where they will buy the games to rip them and play them on their emulator? I know there are people who will, but I can't see most doing that over finding an illegal ROM. We've all seen the comments on Youtube and Reddit and the like.
Dolphin, Citra, Project64, Mupen, SNES9x, ZSNES, and the countless NES, DS, GBA and GB emulators are all old. Nintendo makes nothing on the games for those consoles and because NSO payments are for the service and not each individual game, they can't make claim there either. Yuzu is for their current system and while they'd have an argument in Japan because of how strict Japanese copyright laws are, in the US, they got nothing. It's also why you've seen them stop trying to take down so many ROM hacks and fan games as of late.
justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
I wish Nintendo spent half of their lawyer budget on theirs severs, or in their hardware development team, or in global distribution and localization efforts...
Topher
Gold Member
No it doesn't. The torrent site is more guility of facilitating piracy than emulation software.
NuclearDiarrhea
Member
With Switch 2 out early next year, Nintendo probably going after Yuzu devs now to discourage them from developing a Switch 2 emulator in the future. Probably explains the timing.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Doesn't make a single difference for the legality of the emulator.
Skifi28
Member
"Let them eat cake."
squarealex
Member
Good.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Things Nintendo can do to combat piracy:
Make a system powerful enough to the point where it won't be emulated in less than 2 years.
Make a system with actually good security as to prevent people from dumping their roms
Make games run well to the point of a PC emulator being unnecessary
Embrace mods so that PC doesn't have that advantage either
Like
JohnnyFootball
suggested, pay companies to produce more powerful "switch alternatives" or make a pro console that play the same games but have drastically better performance doing so
Port games to PC like Sony and Microsoft are doing
Lower game prices and stop overvaluing smaller games like Miitopia that would work as a 25-30 dollar title and not a 50 dollar one
Stop shutting down online storefronts leading to people resorting to pirate the lost games
Things that will not stop piracy:
try (and fail) to halt development of an extremely popular, well funded and supported emulator
Make a system powerful enough to the point where it won't be emulated in less than 2 years.
Make a system with actually good security as to prevent people from dumping their roms
Make games run well to the point of a PC emulator being unnecessary
Embrace mods so that PC doesn't have that advantage either
Like
JohnnyFootball
suggested, pay companies to produce more powerful "switch alternatives" or make a pro console that play the same games but have drastically better performance doing soPort games to PC like Sony and Microsoft are doing
Lower game prices and stop overvaluing smaller games like Miitopia that would work as a 25-30 dollar title and not a 50 dollar one
Stop shutting down online storefronts leading to people resorting to pirate the lost games
Things that will not stop piracy:
try (and fail) to halt development of an extremely popular, well funded and supported emulator
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ResilientBanana
Member
Per the EULA for every piece of software, you cannot do this. Its a myth that gamers come up with to make them think they actually own something they only have a license to.
Thick Thighs Save Lives
Gold Member
analog_future
Banned
I do.
I've never pirated a single Switch game but I dump all of my Switch digital purchases to my PC. I let my kid play on the Switch, and I play on my PC with higher resolutions/framerates/added mods, etc..
It's a shame that emulation is so closely tied with piracy, as truly, not all of us are stealing shit.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
EULA is not a law.
Topher
Gold Member
EULA do not override the law. This is legal.
CityHunter1981
Member
It’s not regarding Yuzu, considering it has been out so long. They just want to warn them, not to try something similar for Switch 2.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Bullshit. I do. Nintendo is the only system I have done that for. I do actually support software companies. I haven't pirated a game in over 15 years. Why? Launchers like GOG and Steam have made pirating unnecessary and I can get the game on sale for a price I feel is fair. I also don't trust pirated games to not be full of viruses and such.
Nintendo has made games on their system such a shitty experience that an emulated one is what the experience should be.
If Nintendo would release a reasonably powerful system that can run their games at 4K/120 (It shouldn't be too expensive). I'd never touch an emulator. Nintendo chooses not to.
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Solidus_T
Member
Well, that all depends on the hardware they choose to release. If the Yuzu devs shut down, someone else will emulated the new hardware if it is easy enough
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
He is a Nintendrone who's angry at people playing Nintendo games on PC. Even if dumping was mandatory and you couldn't just pirate someone else's copy he'd still be mad
ResilientBanana
Member
the law states you can make backups for archival purposes only. What some people here are doing is making an illegal copy to play on a different set of hardware.
MasterDerico
Member
I don't like piracy, but its needed for the sake of games preservation!
LordOfChaos
Member
Imagine if Nintendo made modern games a turd couldn't emulate at better settings than any hardware you can pay them money to buy instead of just suing everyone
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
So, I know it's a lot more fun to throw a temper tantrum about how awful Nintendo is, but they've got a case. Emulation, in and of itself, is not illegal. Nintendo is claiming that Yuzu is secondarily liable, however, because Yuzu is using the prod.keys to break encryption measures, which the DMCA in stating that you can't do. If that wasn't the case - let's say there's no protection on the games in the first place - Nintendo wouldn't have a case against them. The damages are also pretty obviously calculable and traceable to Yuzu.
Honestly, it's silly to get up in arms about this - why should they turn a blind eye to an emulator that's letting people steal their games? Sucks for the 1% of users who are playing their legitimately bought copies through Yuzu, but... eh.
Honestly, it's silly to get up in arms about this - why should they turn a blind eye to an emulator that's letting people steal their games? Sucks for the 1% of users who are playing their legitimately bought copies through Yuzu, but... eh.
bender
What time is it?
Things Nintendo can do to combat piracy:
Make a system powerful enough to the point where it won't be emulated in less than 2 years.
Make a system with actually good security as to prevent people from dumping their roms
Make games run well to the point of a PC emulator being unnecessary
Embrace mods so that PC doesn't have that advantage either
Like
Port games to PC like Sony and Microsoft are doing
Lower game prices and stop overvaluing smaller games like Miitopia that would work as a 25-30 dollar title and not a 50 dollar one
Stop shutting down online storefronts leading to people resorting to pirate the lost games
Things that will not stop piracy:
try (and fail) to halt development of an extremely popular, well funded and supported emulator
Things pirates can do to combat piracy:
Stop pirating
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Yes, and we all agree that is illegal. I don't deny that many people using emulators are indeed using illegally downloaded ROMs.
I do not hold it against anyone who chooses to play 720p/30 fps games at 4K/60 on a much more powerful machine if they so choose.
F31 Leopard
Member
Barakov
Member
I'm not that knowledgeable on this but I think if the Switch 2 is just a better switch and uses a lot of the same tech, then technically with some tweaks Yuzu would be able to run Switch 2 games. I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo is doing this just to curb priracy in the early days of the Switch 2 lifecycle. Although I'm sure they would be happy if the whole project was shut down all together.
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
Got beat to it byDraugoth .