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SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
GAF is #TeamNintendo
GO NINTENDO
GO NINTENDO
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
GametimeUK
Member
The only people responsible for "ruining" Tears of the Kingdom for me are Nintendo. Blurry game at 30fps. Grim as fuck.
angrod14
Member
Preservation is not the only good use of emulation, enhanced fidelity and performance is also another key benefit. Nintendo hardware is shit, even they know that, and Yuzu allows you to run their own games in ways Nintendo will probably take 20 years from now to get to.
Properly done emulation is legal, and fuck these companies trying to supress that.
unpaiktable
Neo Member
I guess it's a matter of whether you own your hardware (and included software) or just own the hardware and a license to use the software that comes with it in a certain way.
But why would you need an LLC (Tropic Haze) to run an open source emulator project?
But why would you need an LLC (Tropic Haze) to run an open source emulator project?
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
The name is red because you're losing, slime boy.GAF is #TeamNintendo
GO NINTENDO
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fart town usa
Gold Member
Topher
Gold Member
If it is for archival purposes only then it doesn't matter what set of hardware it is used on it is illegal to use. Once it is being used, it is no longer in a state of archival. Sounds like this is law that needs to be challenged.
Edit: here is the law. there are two provisions so it is not just for archival purposes. Notice the use of the word "or" that I highlighted.
(a)Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.—Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:
(1)
that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or
(2)
that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.
17 U.S. Code § 117 - Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer programs
Provision 1 is basically saying this shall be used as a computer program in a machine. It does not say that only the original machine can be used. The purpose here is to say you cannot sell the copy.
Edit 2:
Here is the basis of this law:
"Because the placement of a work into a computer is the preparation of a copy, the law should provide that persons in rightful possession of copies of programs be able to use them freely without fear of exposure to copyright liability. Obviously, creators, lessors, licensors, and vendors of copies of programs intend that they be used by their customers, so that rightful users would but rarely need a legal shield against potential copyright problems. It is easy to imagine, however, a situation in which the copyright owner might desire, for good reason or none at all, to force a lawful owner or possessor of a copy to stop using a particular program. One who rightfully possesses a copy of a program, therefore, should be provided with a legal right to copy it to that extent which will permit its use by that possessor. This would include the right to load it into a computer and to prepare archival copies of it to guard against destruction or damage by mechanical or electrical failure. But this permission would not extend to other copies of the program. Thus, one could not, for example, make archival copies of a program and later sell some while retaining some for use. The sale of a copy of a program by a rightful possessor to another must be of all rights in the program, thus creating a new rightful possessor and destroying that status as regards the seller."
Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer programs - Wikipedia
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Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
So if a VHS player wasn't licensed it would be illegal?
lordrand11
Member
Well, since Nintendo is doing some mental gymnastics here with Yuzu, wouldn't they be responsible for creating a service say if a pedophile got onto their service and solicited a bunch of children?
But seriously, this is the kind of shit that keeps pissing me off with them, let's waste money on lawyering instead of focusing on our niche and cash cow titles.
CityHunter1981
Member
That might be true, but the lawsuit made headlines, which was probably Nintendos intention, since other people will also be careful not to be hit by a lawsuit in the future.
Sure emulation is not illegal, but it’s not like small independent developers can afford very good lawyers.
AngelMuffin
Member
They may not have won against Bleem! in a court of law but they shut them down anyways by burying them in defense costs.
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
According to the documents in the lawsuit (not sure how accurate this is), the LLC behind Yuzu is making about $30,000 a month from their Patreon. If that's true, I hope they saved some of that back for a rainy day like today.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Didn't they fire shots across Dolphins bow when they tried to launch on Steam, and the Dolphin guys backed down?
My guess is that it is almost impossible for these emulator makers to be sure they aren't infringing somewhere.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Time for a defense GoFundMe/Patreon donation.
Kokoloko85
Member
I hear this all the time.
Please make a video of yourself doing this, put all your details. And then send it to Nintendo along with your address.
We'll all support and spread it for you lol
Topher
Gold Member
It isn't some big mystery. YouTube has a ton of videos on this. Following these videos is exactly how I ripped games from cartridges in my Switch. You think Nintendo wouldn't think twice about sending out DMCA notices to Youtube and have these videos taken down if they could?
Sorry to spoil your "gotcha".
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bender
What time is it?
Topher
Gold Member
bender
What time is it?
shill
Musashipan
Member
I hope they win and the pirate criminals go to jail and pay millions of dollars. Go Nintendo , get those criminals!
bigdad2007
Member
Yuzu isn’t like most retro emulators as it is allowing piracy of current gen titles. Add to the fact that almost all of these emulator projects are using Patreon to earn money off their software, and you have a recipe for a lawsuit.
This has happened before. Sony sued Bleem into oblivion when they tried to sell an emulator.
Emulation isn’t going anywhere, and Yuzu will always be worked on by someone else or forked I’m sure.
I wonder if Switch 2 is using a similar enough architecture Nintendo is worried that Yuzu could potentially emulate next gen switch games. Which would again be problematic.
This has happened before. Sony sued Bleem into oblivion when they tried to sell an emulator.
Emulation isn’t going anywhere, and Yuzu will always be worked on by someone else or forked I’m sure.
I wonder if Switch 2 is using a similar enough architecture Nintendo is worried that Yuzu could potentially emulate next gen switch games. Which would again be problematic.
Kokoloko85
Member
This stuff isnt so important to me, so Its not spoiling a gotcha moment buddy, more important things in life. I already know about the whole video and “emulating” isnt illegal, sorry to spoil your trying to educate me moment.
I just think if people actually state their intention to Nintendo, (and 99% aren't ripping games they bought from Nintendo, they are pirating) Then Nintendo will come down hard on them.
So all these people who claim emulating is legal, which by itself is. Go show how your getting your Games over to your emulator. Show your collection of paid for official Nintendo games. Because most the time, people are pirating these games, not buying them and ripping them.
I know people who spout this crap but are pirating, so they should show that confidence to Nintendo
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bigdad2007
Member
Also people might not realize but they were also selling early access to builds that let people pirate NSO.
This is likely what was the last straw. They went after Nintendos current revenue stream and were decrypting the DRM they were putting on NSO.
Sure they didn’t host the keys, but they had detailed instructions on how to download them.
People who have been following emulation shouldn’t be surprised by this. Yuzu has been warned for years locking things behind Patreon, and all the TikTok memes of modded Zelda were going to cause trouble .
This is likely what was the last straw. They went after Nintendos current revenue stream and were decrypting the DRM they were putting on NSO.
Sure they didn’t host the keys, but they had detailed instructions on how to download them.
People who have been following emulation shouldn’t be surprised by this. Yuzu has been warned for years locking things behind Patreon, and all the TikTok memes of modded Zelda were going to cause trouble .
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
I think they are, and knowingly, and intentionally profiting off of it.
Nintendo doesn't go after random emulators; it's only when the emulator is offered as an easy substitute, a simple way to turn something like a Steam Deck into a piracy machine.
When the Dolphin (GC/Wii) emulator tried to release on Steam last year, Nintendo came after them and stopped it. But they never bothered them before, nor after they abandoned the idea of a Steam release.
Yuzu's developers used the whole "Steam Deck can replace even a Switch" frenzy to push their emulator knowing that the overwhelming majority of cases are people who don't own the games. And they set up a Patreon etc, which is in really bad taste for someone who is emulating a current system and knowingly making it so that millions of people can easily pop Switch games onto any platform for free. I support devs who are doing emulation of older systems and doing it respectfully, but it seems to me that it's correct to take back every dime Yuzu tried to rake in dishonestly.
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ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
Holy shit -- $30,000 a month.
Yeah, I'm sorry, but these guys are knowingly making bank off of piracy on a large scale. I hope they're taken for all of it, even all the cash they've already spent over the years. Turning it into a business fueled by a wink at piracy gives emulation a bad name and ruins it for the rest of us.
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alucard0712_rus
Member
You don't need Yuzu to make backups of your games. And how do you actually use your backups in future?
Topher
Gold Member
Yeah.....most folks pirate these games. No shit. You are not educating anyone here either bud. That doesn't mean that those who us emulate the right way don't exist. If that's not enough then that's a you problem.
MasterDerico
Member
I meant, digital only games! They don't care, games are delisted, closed stores, etc...
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graywolf323
Member
not sure what Yuzu being current gen has to do with anything
Bleem! was current gen when Sony sued them (and lost)
Bleem! was current gen when Sony sued them (and lost)
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Kokoloko85
Member
Im just stating the obvious when some people seem to be ignoring it. Not trying to educate lol.
Blame the pirates. Which is probably 90+% of people who emulate.
Topher
Gold Member
That's fair. I'm not trying to defend the pirates either. I just think if folks want to play these games on their PC then that's perfectly fine, but they need to own the game. Pirates just want shit for free.
nkarafo
Member
Saying Yuzu is made for piracy is like saying knives are made for stabbing people.
Also, if Nintendo wins, it will affect the emulation community as a whole, not just Yuzu. Even if your morals only accept emulators that emulate "older games that are not profitable" it won't matter. If Nintendo wins it will eventually affect those too and game preservation in general. Plus, what's the difference between Yuzu and a random NES emulator in that sense? Nintendo still profits from old NES games through their own emulation services. So if Yuzu is illegal then all homebrew emulators are. This is a very dangerous domino situation.
Lastly, the "lost sales" argument makes no sense. You can't prove a person who pirates a game would buy it if they didn't have the chance to get it for free. One can also argue pirates never buy games because they are broke or just prefer free shit and if they can't pirate one game they will just pirate another. None of that are "lost sales".
You can even argue there are people who would never buy those games if they didn't have the chance to play them on superior hardware via emulation. So in that sense, Yuzu may have even earned sales for Nintendo. That's right, Nintendo didn't even have to spend money and time developing an emulator that would allow for increased sales and Yuzu did it for them. Yes, this can't be proven but in the same way "lost sales" can't be proven either.
Also, if Nintendo wins, it will affect the emulation community as a whole, not just Yuzu. Even if your morals only accept emulators that emulate "older games that are not profitable" it won't matter. If Nintendo wins it will eventually affect those too and game preservation in general. Plus, what's the difference between Yuzu and a random NES emulator in that sense? Nintendo still profits from old NES games through their own emulation services. So if Yuzu is illegal then all homebrew emulators are. This is a very dangerous domino situation.
Lastly, the "lost sales" argument makes no sense. You can't prove a person who pirates a game would buy it if they didn't have the chance to get it for free. One can also argue pirates never buy games because they are broke or just prefer free shit and if they can't pirate one game they will just pirate another. None of that are "lost sales".
You can even argue there are people who would never buy those games if they didn't have the chance to play them on superior hardware via emulation. So in that sense, Yuzu may have even earned sales for Nintendo. That's right, Nintendo didn't even have to spend money and time developing an emulator that would allow for increased sales and Yuzu did it for them. Yes, this can't be proven but in the same way "lost sales" can't be proven either.
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nkarafo
Member
Τhey can. They can throw money at it and keep it going to bully the Yuzu devs and suck them dry, forcing them to settle. Because that's what justice is all about. Whoever can afford it has the upper hand.
Mozzarella
Member
Even if they win, emulation is not going anywhere.
