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PlayStation 6 Release Locked for 2027, “Not Just on the Table, It’s the Plan,” Says Kepler2 Following Sony and AMD’s Project Amethyst Showcase
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Opinion Rumor Platform
Burger King
Member
I hope the PS6 comes out in 2028/2029
Audiophile
Member
I wonder how the handling of the library will be done across PS6 & PS6 Portable (assuming the latter is in fact going to play most if not all PS6 titles scaled down).
If you're on PS6 and you're inclined to get a disc drive and invest in disc-based games but also want a PS6 Portable, then if the latter is digital-only that means you need to buy games twice (one PS6 physical, plus a digital license...also, will that license be fully transferrable across both or will there be a small upcharge to get the license for both?).
Ideally (I'm probably dreaming here), PS6 Portable would have a dual SD slot and Sony will make games available on a high capacity SD gamecard for PS6 Portable (games will likely be running at 540-720p with 2-4x scaling to 1080p, plus some partially pared back quality settings vs PS6 at 1080-1440p with 2-4x scaling to 4K, with cranked settings; so a distinct deliverable of the game with reduced data will likely make sense and another two years from now may be totally viable on a card). But then, you're still having to buy the game twice, once on disc for PS6, once on card for Portable..
So at this point maybe the best approach would be something like this for standard pricing:
PS6 | Digital License: $69.99
PS6 Portable | Digital License: $59.99
PS6 + PS6 Portable | Digital Dual License: $79.99
PS6 | Physical Game Disc: $79.99
PS6 Portable | Physical Game Card: $69.99
PS6 + PS6 Portable | Physical Disc/Card Dual Pack: $89.99
Problem with something like this is scalpers, they could buy the double pack, take the PS6 disc, then repackage and sell on the PS6P card marked up at an intermediate price between their individual cost and the additional cost of it in this package, which undercuts and disincentivises Sony to release individual, physical games. Another option is keep PS6P fully digital but stick a PS6P-specific digital license code in physical PS6 disc boxes. But then the same problem arises, folks can buy the disc, get the full value of it on PS6, then resell the code and undercut Sony's sale of a digital license on the store. Or, take the code, use it and resell the PS6 disc a little shy of full price making the game pretty much free on Portable.
The simplest is keep PS6P digital only, have digital licenses be transferrable between PS6 & PS6P either at the same cost or a small premium, then offer the physical disc option to PS6 users. But again, that kinda puts core users who wish to have both consoles and buy physical in an awkward spot where the transferable digital license they're gonna have to get anyway to play on PS6P also makes their disc copy kinda redundant in the short term. I'd usually concede some degree of premium being a physical media guy given that we do present more of a relative niche at this point, but it's a matter of degrees and pretty much having to spend double on a game to have the long term benefits of that after having spent ~$600 on a main console, ~$400 on a portable console, $60-70 on a marked up disc drive and then being asked to buy the same game twice over at full cost is pushing it.. My concern is they're gonna go all in on this route with no contingency for dual platform players who prefer physical and effectively use it as a lever to push more people into the digital ecosystem.
I think ultimately providing a physical option for both as above would be the best method, charge a ~$10 premium on physical to begin with, offer the individual portable games copies or license at a $10 discount relative to the full-blown license, then offer a digital dual license at a small premium, but on the physical side offer a dual pack at a more significant premium (perhaps half way between the cost of both individually and the cost of one individually, so as to offer some discount to dual physical buyers, but not so much it undermines sales of individual units by scalpers/resellers). It's pricey still but a middleground and a compromise, better than straight up buying two full-price copies: effectively the pricing scheme I listed above for standard full-price titles, but with the physical dual pack coming in at around ~$115. So, to reiterate (also adding an upgrade):
Digital:
PS6 | License: $69.99
PS6P | License: $59.99
PS6 + PS6P | Dual License: $79.99
PS6 > Dual License Upgrade: $9.99*
PS6P > Dual License Upgrade: $19.99*
*Only applicable to post-launch PS6/PS6P titles, (PS4/PS5 & existing PS5/PS6 cross-gen playable across both to provide access to a strong existing library on handheld).
Physical:
PS6 | Disc: $79.99
PS6P | Card: $69.99
PS6 + PS6P | Disc/Card Dual Pack: $114.99
Also, while I'm dreaming a bit, it'd be nice if the portable had back compat with vita and a dual SD slot which supported vita cards in the second slot too. I know folks poo-poo the idea of supporting legacy media formats as they'll prefer to make money off you reselling you a new digital license or subscription services to access those titles, but the reality is most people will go for that convenient digital access anyway and won't be rolling up with a wallet or shelf full of vita games, it'd be a nice little value add for a small set core/legacy gamers that won't really put a dent in their plans to offer you those titles with monetisation, and it's a nice little publicity win; all of which stack up.
In an ideal world there'd just be a universal game card that carries the full home console version of the game which works on both PS6 & PS6P, with discs no longer being a thing for new, native games and a disc-drive add-on being a purely legacy item for back compat: you can buy one digital license and it's transferable or you can buy one card and it works on both. Unfortunately it'll still be cost-prohibitive and likely limit game size (as well as introduce a cost vs game content trade-off that'll have some devs gimping their vision for savings). And even if it were viable in those respects, one of the main appeals of physical outside of resale, censorship resistance and ownership, is longer term preservation/archival/access; and cards as they are right now are nowhere near as reliable as discs due to them relying on an electrical charge.
If you're on PS6 and you're inclined to get a disc drive and invest in disc-based games but also want a PS6 Portable, then if the latter is digital-only that means you need to buy games twice (one PS6 physical, plus a digital license...also, will that license be fully transferrable across both or will there be a small upcharge to get the license for both?).
Ideally (I'm probably dreaming here), PS6 Portable would have a dual SD slot and Sony will make games available on a high capacity SD gamecard for PS6 Portable (games will likely be running at 540-720p with 2-4x scaling to 1080p, plus some partially pared back quality settings vs PS6 at 1080-1440p with 2-4x scaling to 4K, with cranked settings; so a distinct deliverable of the game with reduced data will likely make sense and another two years from now may be totally viable on a card). But then, you're still having to buy the game twice, once on disc for PS6, once on card for Portable..
So at this point maybe the best approach would be something like this for standard pricing:
PS6 | Digital License: $69.99
PS6 Portable | Digital License: $59.99
PS6 + PS6 Portable | Digital Dual License: $79.99
PS6 | Physical Game Disc: $79.99
PS6 Portable | Physical Game Card: $69.99
PS6 + PS6 Portable | Physical Disc/Card Dual Pack: $89.99
Problem with something like this is scalpers, they could buy the double pack, take the PS6 disc, then repackage and sell on the PS6P card marked up at an intermediate price between their individual cost and the additional cost of it in this package, which undercuts and disincentivises Sony to release individual, physical games. Another option is keep PS6P fully digital but stick a PS6P-specific digital license code in physical PS6 disc boxes. But then the same problem arises, folks can buy the disc, get the full value of it on PS6, then resell the code and undercut Sony's sale of a digital license on the store. Or, take the code, use it and resell the PS6 disc a little shy of full price making the game pretty much free on Portable.
The simplest is keep PS6P digital only, have digital licenses be transferrable between PS6 & PS6P either at the same cost or a small premium, then offer the physical disc option to PS6 users. But again, that kinda puts core users who wish to have both consoles and buy physical in an awkward spot where the transferable digital license they're gonna have to get anyway to play on PS6P also makes their disc copy kinda redundant in the short term. I'd usually concede some degree of premium being a physical media guy given that we do present more of a relative niche at this point, but it's a matter of degrees and pretty much having to spend double on a game to have the long term benefits of that after having spent ~$600 on a main console, ~$400 on a portable console, $60-70 on a marked up disc drive and then being asked to buy the same game twice over at full cost is pushing it.. My concern is they're gonna go all in on this route with no contingency for dual platform players who prefer physical and effectively use it as a lever to push more people into the digital ecosystem.
I think ultimately providing a physical option for both as above would be the best method, charge a ~$10 premium on physical to begin with, offer the individual portable games copies or license at a $10 discount relative to the full-blown license, then offer a digital dual license at a small premium, but on the physical side offer a dual pack at a more significant premium (perhaps half way between the cost of both individually and the cost of one individually, so as to offer some discount to dual physical buyers, but not so much it undermines sales of individual units by scalpers/resellers). It's pricey still but a middleground and a compromise, better than straight up buying two full-price copies: effectively the pricing scheme I listed above for standard full-price titles, but with the physical dual pack coming in at around ~$115. So, to reiterate (also adding an upgrade):
Digital:
PS6 | License: $69.99
PS6P | License: $59.99
PS6 + PS6P | Dual License: $79.99
PS6 > Dual License Upgrade: $9.99*
PS6P > Dual License Upgrade: $19.99*
*Only applicable to post-launch PS6/PS6P titles, (PS4/PS5 & existing PS5/PS6 cross-gen playable across both to provide access to a strong existing library on handheld).
Physical:
PS6 | Disc: $79.99
PS6P | Card: $69.99
PS6 + PS6P | Disc/Card Dual Pack: $114.99
Also, while I'm dreaming a bit, it'd be nice if the portable had back compat with vita and a dual SD slot which supported vita cards in the second slot too. I know folks poo-poo the idea of supporting legacy media formats as they'll prefer to make money off you reselling you a new digital license or subscription services to access those titles, but the reality is most people will go for that convenient digital access anyway and won't be rolling up with a wallet or shelf full of vita games, it'd be a nice little value add for a small set core/legacy gamers that won't really put a dent in their plans to offer you those titles with monetisation, and it's a nice little publicity win; all of which stack up.
In an ideal world there'd just be a universal game card that carries the full home console version of the game which works on both PS6 & PS6P, with discs no longer being a thing for new, native games and a disc-drive add-on being a purely legacy item for back compat: you can buy one digital license and it's transferable or you can buy one card and it works on both. Unfortunately it'll still be cost-prohibitive and likely limit game size (as well as introduce a cost vs game content trade-off that'll have some devs gimping their vision for savings). And even if it were viable in those respects, one of the main appeals of physical outside of resale, censorship resistance and ownership, is longer term preservation/archival/access; and cards as they are right now are nowhere near as reliable as discs due to them relying on an electrical charge.
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pacman4000
Member
LOL.
Is the argument here that the planning can't start until the thing is released?
Anyway, 100% it will use Zen6. Especially since Zen6 will be released next year already.
roosnam1980
Gold Member
30gb for ps6 and 24gb for portable
those ram numbers are for the dev kits right?
those ram numbers are for the dev kits right?
that's for the retail units. Will use 3GB chips on a 160bit bus, so 3x10 in clamshell configuration (chips on both sides of the board). At least, that's what makes sense.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Its definitely a complicated issue. Sony isn't going to bother with card slots and all that. And on the surface, anyone who buys the portable is basically buying a digital only version of the console.
I can imagine that sony does something that allows you to connect a disc drive via usb to the portable or its dock, if it has one, to allow you to install a disc game and give you a temporary play license for that disc game for like 3/7 days or something. And whenever that expires, you just do the whole pair thing again.
But the easiest thing to do is just make the PS portable not compatible with disc games.
The PS6 is rumored to have a 160bit (32bit x 5) bus instead of a 256-bit (32-bit x 8) one, so thats 5 channels instead of 8 channels. Which makes sense because MEEM PHY doesnt scale with the process node.
To put that in perspective, be it on 7nm, or on 4nm, a single 32-bit GDDR5 PHY controller takes up around 10mm2. That means you are losing as much as 80mm2 of die space just on mem controllers alone. GDDR7 uses even more space, about 10-14mm2.
You can see what the problem is.
So they have to use a smaller bus, which means they must use a faster RAM chip to still hit the required bandwidth. A 160-bit bus using GDDR7 means they use around 50-70mm2 for that MEM PHY controller, but are able to get bandwidth of around 650GB/s to 720GB/s depending on which chip they use. And unless they want to have a max of 15GB/20GB of RAM if putting the RAM on only one face of the PCB, they would need to use a clamshell approach, which means they can have 30GB/40GB of RAM (depending on is they are using 3GB/4GB RAM chips).
Its technically possible, however, that not every channel has a chip in a clamshell, so they can techniclly go for 24GB by having only 3 of the channels have chips in clamshell, and the other 2not having them.
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nial
Member
they should, IMO
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Outside nostalgia... it makes absolutely no sense.
Loxus
Member
I think they would of went with a 128bit-bus if 24GB and use higher clocked memory.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Currently, of the 3 GDDR7 chips in production, the fastest (and most expensive) is 36Gbs, next in line is 32Gbs and then the cheapest is 28Gbs.
With 128-bit, they get 576GB/s, 512GB/s and 4448GB/s respectively. I would assume that's why they didn't do that.
But I do agree with you though that they would rather and more likely fill out every available channel with RAM or not why bother with a 160 bit bus that just eats up precious dies space.. I mean clamshelling some and not the others does create its own kinda issues, easily fixed, but issues none the less.
The memory bandwidth issue cannot be ignored, though. 578GB/s at best in that scenario just doesnt seem like enough.
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asdasdasdbb
Member
I think they expect people to not be buying both. But I think the portable will just only get digital games.
Giallo Corsa
Gold Member
Man, I'd be really interested in the portable/handheld console...
Just one thing though : I really, REALLY hope that they put some HAL/TMR sticks 'cause the drifting problems have been getting worse from (joypad) generation to generation, in fact, HAL/TMR sticks would be more important than the screen itself (say, LCD Vs OLED).
The main reason I didn't buy a Portal for the 2nd time is exactly that.
Just one thing though : I really, REALLY hope that they put some HAL/TMR sticks 'cause the drifting problems have been getting worse from (joypad) generation to generation, in fact, HAL/TMR sticks would be more important than the screen itself (say, LCD Vs OLED).
The main reason I didn't buy a Portal for the 2nd time is exactly that.
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nial
Member
nostalgia for what, it's just giving more options to a market that they still have an interest in catering to, as we know from the fact that the PS6 is still including a disc drive
simpatico
Gold Member
We need to make the biggest betting thread in the history of GAF for the price announcement. I want a public record of everyone's prediction on price and performance delta with PS5 Pro. This moment in time will separate the wheat from the chaff in the cumulative history of online video game economic prognostication. It's all been building up to this info drop. It's the motherload. The entire HDM console war was just bootcamp for this. Every single forum. Every post. Every dancing banana emoji. This is it. vBulletin soldiers, are you ready to ride one last time into the fray? With sources, links, salt and crow? Legends will be made. Reputation demolished. What side are you gonna be on GAF? A $500/150% bull? A $999/110% bear? Stay tuned.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
No... the PS5 currently has an "optional" disc drive. If that doesn't tell you where the market is going to then what will?
And how is a handheld with some sort of proprietary card slot going to work? How big are these cards? 64GB? 128GB? One card would be equivalent in manufacturing costs to like 10 discs. For what? If there will be a card slot it would just be for quick storage expansion for those that want to do that. It wouldn't be the primary way games are sold.
There is just no need for it
nial
Member
It's an optional SKU with a disc drive, not just an optional disc drive. Said SKU which is also proving to be the vast majority of sales of the console.
Japan currently has the Standard Edition at 5,815,510 units and the Digital Edition at 1,011,050 units. Sure, this isn't 100% representative of the global market, but it should give you an idea of where things are leaning to.
Sony doesn't really need any fast cards if they're going to mandate installs like every PlayStation console since the PS4, we're talking way slower than Switch 1 cards here as they were already faster than Blu-Ray discs. And they can be of a variety of sizes needed for a variety of games, that's the neat part and why the current Switch 2 situation plain sucks.
If there is money to be made, it would be dumb to ignore it.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
If 2020 hardware uses 16GB, the very least 2027, 28 hardware can do is double that.
Giallo Corsa
Gold Member
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asdasdasdbb
Member
$699, optional drive $100
(That's assuming the tariffs are gone by then)
(That's assuming the tariffs are gone by then)
nial
Member
$749 for the SKU with a disc drive?
reinking
Gold Member
asdasdasdbb
Member
I don't think there will be a Drive SKU, like the Pro.
You'll be getting games for a long time at least.
nial
Member
Tom Henderson already said otherwise.
Ceadeus
Gold Member
Yeah, my post sucked it does read a bit like a drive-by. It's just that this console generation went by so quickly, and I found so few games I actually enjoyed. It's getting harder and harder to justify investing time and money into a system that makes me feel like I'm no longer the target audience.
Just joking around....
Yes, the PS5 isn't a bad buy by any means. I appreciate Sony's long-term support for their consoles. I just wish they showed the same commitment to the PSVR2 and previously, the PS Vita. They have a bad habit of pulling the plug far too early, leaving early adopters frustrated.
Moridianae
Member
For me, though I got the PS5 when it released, I admit that this generation hasn't felt as great by a fairly large margin.
Sure, we've had some good ones, but it just hasn't been the same. I know that I haven't bought nearly as many games for my PS5 that I did in generations prior; inflation and cost of living was a factor, but it always has been and I got more back in the day because it felt like there were a lot more big time hits.
Feels like the generation never really got started in a way, though I blame COVID for that.
Also a lot of what I call the "we're out of ideas" trend of copious Remasters or Re-Remasters.
Kinda how Hollywood just "gives up" and proceeds into the doldrums of reboots or remakes that don't really appeal.
The idea of a PS6 being only a couple of years away feels absurd to me, I guess because time seemed to change in the COVID years. It feels too early even though it's on pace.
I do think it'll be a good system. Mark usually does some stellar work, so I'm sure it'll punch above it's weight in specs. It will definitely feel better CPU wise, if anything it seems.
And I think we underestimate just how quickly AI is advancing and what it could potential be able to do in 6 months, not even 2 years.
Sora 2 is ridiculous, considering just a few months ago an AI video was easily identifiable. It still is for those who know what to look for, but the gap is closing.
My point is AI by the time these consoles launch will probably be capable of handling a LOT of things, far more than it even does now.
Sure, we've had some good ones, but it just hasn't been the same. I know that I haven't bought nearly as many games for my PS5 that I did in generations prior; inflation and cost of living was a factor, but it always has been and I got more back in the day because it felt like there were a lot more big time hits.
Feels like the generation never really got started in a way, though I blame COVID for that.
Also a lot of what I call the "we're out of ideas" trend of copious Remasters or Re-Remasters.
Kinda how Hollywood just "gives up" and proceeds into the doldrums of reboots or remakes that don't really appeal.
The idea of a PS6 being only a couple of years away feels absurd to me, I guess because time seemed to change in the COVID years. It feels too early even though it's on pace.
I do think it'll be a good system. Mark usually does some stellar work, so I'm sure it'll punch above it's weight in specs. It will definitely feel better CPU wise, if anything it seems.
And I think we underestimate just how quickly AI is advancing and what it could potential be able to do in 6 months, not even 2 years.
Sora 2 is ridiculous, considering just a few months ago an AI video was easily identifiable. It still is for those who know what to look for, but the gap is closing.
My point is AI by the time these consoles launch will probably be capable of handling a LOT of things, far more than it even does now.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Any chance Sony is dropping physical discs entirely? Or still too early?
We are far removed from the golden age of GameStop and ToysrUs.
6 months from manufacturing to launch is pretty standard
Audiophile
Member
Crazy that the Dreamcast and the PS Vita had hall effect back in '98/'11 and yet here we are in 2025 still hankering for them in modern devices that come at a significant premium.
No doubt that they just want these things to fail so they can make more money replacing them, but on the portable console side (or with something like the Portal), it's unforgivable not having them. It's one thing to build in a weak spot on a peripheral (DualSense etc.) but another for a main device (handheld console) or a high cost peripheral (portal) to be at the mercy of it.
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pacman4000
Member
Maybe (it's likely possible from a tech/chip perspective). Having 2 launches at the same time (Q4 2027) seems a bit "messy" though, isn't it? Maybe, let's say, March 2028 would be a better option.
Felessan
Member
PS5 started production in may 2020 iirc and it's already quite some time, phones has ~3 month production window
They can't drag it too long or product will be outdated.
peish
Member
This is my bet too.
Sony will also let Series 2X go first and take the brunt of higher srp
viveks86
Member
yogaflame
Member
Well Christmas season December 2027 will be okay, and felessan you have a point that the product might become outdated if delayed too much, but again what matters is games especially exclusives. I hope there will be allot of great launch titles especially exclusives. It think this will be the possible launch games: new GOW, Blood borne remake, Stellar blade 2, Venom, GT8, new Ratchet and clank, Days gone 2, new Astrobot. Any of this games especially stellar blade 2, GT8 and Bloodborne remake is a win for me.
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pacman4000
Member
Cool. So maybe "~3 months later" is the masterplan, from tapeout to launch.
I just hope they don't call it "PlayStation 6 something"...
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dgrdsv
Member
PlayStation 6 The Dark World
Definitely not an easy buy for me this time, I'll also be looking at the whatever Xbox and Steam are doing, and getting whichever offers the best deal in terms of price/performance.
A lot will depend on what the PS exclusive pipeline is going to be looking like, if the Stellar Blade sequel will also launch on PC day one there may be nothing else that interests me.
A lot will depend on what the PS exclusive pipeline is going to be looking like, if the Stellar Blade sequel will also launch on PC day one there may be nothing else that interests me.
Loxus
Member
True, but with larger L2 cache and larger LDS cache, effective bandwidth should be higher.
Not to mention this.
Audiophile
Member
Only one solution for that...
..PlayStation® Multi-Disc Changer™ !
Edit: I actually posted this purely as a silly joke, but I'd legit buy it if I was a Portal user with a physical collection I wanna play on it, it could even be marketed to straight up lazy people who just have the home console and don't wanna get up. Could also be connected to a dock for the handheld and verify physical copies so you can play while you're away.
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viveks86
Member
I wonder what compression ratios they are getting for non-texture data. If that diagram was indicative at all, it should be more than 3x. And hope they still keep Oodle within the toolset. That was some good shit!True, but with larger L2 cache and larger LDS cache, effective bandwidth should be higher.
Not to mention this.
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