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[TheBaronOfNA]

Well, her personal page didn't give so much confidence.

 

[Alfredo]

Interesting project. I hope it goes over more than just girl gamers, though. The trailer just mentioned eSports people and assholes on Xbox live. I'd like to see more about women actually working in the industry, like developers, artists, journalists, etc. Hell, even booth babes and cosplayers.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

The implication that context fixes EVERYTHING assumes that every situation occurs in a bubble where any rippled created by said effects cannot be judged regardless of the outcome. I get that context can have an impact but it seriously isn't the end-all be-all.

He was being homophobic and as I stated I forgave him because his apology was genuine enough. Homophobia can happen, regardless of intent.

The only time those ripples effect anything is when those people take the statement out of context and twist it into their own thoughts.

Just because someone sees something and they percieve it as homophobic doesn't mean the person saying it has homophobia
as his intent, and he shouldn't be judged because someone misunderstands the
context of something.

 

[IHaveCandy]

No, that person who said the asian is good at math is being racist.

rac·ism [rey-siz-uhm]
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.





Nope. Stereotypes and racism are different. A racial stereotype isn't intrinsically racist. This is much like how a square is always a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't always a square.

 

[Gully State]

I personally have my very own theory about harassment on Xbox Live.

The reason why people are harassing others:
As pretty much everywhere on the internet, Xbox Live is a place where everything you say is linked to your online persona and real-life consequences usually don't exist. I think there should be studies on why people act differently when they don't have to expect any kind of punishment for their actions.

How they pick their victims:
Depending on the situation the victim will either be the 1 vs 1 opponent (1vs1 in an FPS or Dark Souls or something) or a specific person in a group of people (online lobby). Picking the receiver in a 1 versus 1 situation is not hard. It's “the other person”. Picking a victim in other situations is more complicated so they stick to people that stick out. Usually the person sticking out isn't the 24 year-old male so when he gets harassed in an online game then it might be because during gameplay he was seen in a 1 vs 1 situation as described above (that's how the target audience gamer became the victim).

If there's someone else who sticks out then they will be chosen as the victim. A 8-year old sounding person in the lobby sticks out, so do females so that's why these people have a higher chance of being harassed than others.

I've noticed this when I was features user on Xbox once. The messages started popping in simply because I was the one person that showed up right in front of their face.

How they're being harassed:
Depending on who people harass they also change the kind of harassment. Target group males will be called faggots or something like that, because that's either the go-to insult for the person insulting or something they hope will get a reaction from the receiver of the message.

Females will be harassed with what people consider to be sexist messages. People want their harassment to mean something and so (just like when they harass males) they stick to a couple of go-to phrases and insults. Not because they're sexist, homophobic or anything but because these are insults that have (in the past) shown to be effective ways of insulting others.


FIN.

I think this pretty much is the case. I mean yes there's definitely an issue with women being poorly treated in gaming but it's just one superficial aspect of how online communities behave in general. A more poignant research topic would be how anonymity in online gaming affects social behavior in general and the research being done to address the problem.

 

[Gouf]

I give up. Neogaf is easily the most sexist, racist and homophobic forum I've ever been to after reddit.

Please ban my account. Some of you are cool but I don't have the time or patience to deal with this level of garbage human.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

The trailer was actually pretty good. It seemed fair and actually balanced with the different interviewers. Maybe I would contribute to it.

 

[rdrr gnr]

I give up. Neogaf is easily the most sexist, racist and homophobic forum I've ever been to after reddit.

Please ban my account. Some of you are cool but I don't have the time or patience to deal with this level of garbage human.

Garbage human?

Garbage, human?

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

I give up. Neogaf is easily the most sexist, racist and homophobic forum I've ever been to after reddit.

Please ban my account. Some of you are cool but I don't have the time or patience to deal with this level of garbage human.

you have 59 posts, I doubt you know much of this place. You're overreacting and being an ass about stuff

 

[Aquamarine]

I give up. Neogaf is easily the most sexist, racist and homophobic forum I've ever been to after reddit.

Please ban my account. Some of you are cool but I don't have the time or patience to deal with this level of garbage human.

I want you take a good look in the mirror and think to yourself "Was that comment really necessary?"

And the universe will respond with a resounding "No!!!," and we will all be on our merry way.

 

[JDSN]

Im glad she pointed out that she got negative feedback and trolling, that makes her movie more real and rightful to me.

 

[IHaveCandy]

I give up. Neogaf is easily the most sexist, racist and homophobic forum I've ever been to after reddit.

Please ban my account. Some of you are cool but I don't have the time or patience to deal with this level of garbage human.

:/

Nobody is tolerating anything here. It's simply important to understand differences. Nobody is saying being stereotypical or intentionally offensive is good or anything like that, but people shouldn't jump the gun and call it homophobic or racism when it isn't. It waters down true racism and homophobia. This isn't saying "well technically it isn't racist or homophobic as you can see by this definition you can read. So therefore it is okay to say." It is saying "This isn't racism or homophobia. It is instead stereotyping, which is also offensive. It's not something we should find acceptable, but let's please use the correct term."

 

[Ryuukan]

I give up. Neogaf is easily the most sexist, racist and homophobic forum I've ever been to after reddit.

Please ban my account. Some of you are cool but I don't have the time or patience to deal with this level of garbage human.

Neogaf is better without people like you calling trans and homosexual users garbage.

 

[AutumnAve]

I give up. Neogaf is easily the most sexist, racist and homophobic forum I've ever been to after reddit.

Please ban my account. Some of you are cool but I don't have the time or patience to deal with this level of garbage human.

Come on, don't do this.

 

[GuardianE]

Context is irrelevant, your words have meaning without it. I'm sorry that you think that things don't have effects outside of their immediate implication but they do.

It sure is, if you're looking for arguments.

I give up. Neogaf is easily the most sexist, racist and homophobic forum I've ever been to after reddit.

Please ban my account. Some of you are cool but I don't have the time or patience to deal with this level of garbage human.

Wow. Dat melodrama. You must be new to the internet if you honestly believe that.

 

[IHaveCandy]

It sure is, if you're looking for arguments.

Yeah, if context never matters, Django Unchained is the most racist movie to come out in the 21st century.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Yeah, if context never matters, Django Unchained is the most racist movie to come out in the 21st century.

There are people making that argument.

 

[antitrop]

There are people making that argument.

I feel bad for them.

 

[GuardianE]

There are people making that argument.

And I'm assuming context is the reason why those people are wrong. (haven't seen it yet. It's on my list.)

 

[antitrop]

And I'm assuming context is the reason those people are wrong. (haven't seen it yet. It's on my list.)

I think it's Tarantino's second best film, and Pulp Fiction is my favorite film.

And yes, those people would be missing the point. In fact, it's like the exact opposite of racist.

 

[IHaveCandy]

And I'm assuming context is the reason why those people are wrong. (haven't seen it yet. It's on my list.)

Let's just say a word I am not sure I am allowed to type in any context on this board, even just to let you know what the word is, is used over 100 times in the movie.

 

[Woffls]

Respectfully, I'd rather hear about sexism in the games industry from someone who has known about it for more than five minutes.

 

[GuardianE]

I think it's Tarantino's second best film, and Pulp Fiction is my favorite film.

Good to hear. I'm definitely a Tarantino fan. I've heard nothing but great things from people whose tastes I trust.

Let's just say a word I am not sure I am allowed to type in any context on this board, even just to let you know what the word is, is used over 100 times in the movie.

I expected as much. And I also pretty much expected a predictable, misguided overreaction from people.

 

[antitrop]

I expected as much. And I also pretty much expected a predictable, misguided overreaction from people.

Watching people indignantly leave the theatre in the first 20 minutes was fairly entertaining.

 

[Odrion]

I think it's Tarantino's second best film, and Pulp Fiction is my favorite film.

And yes, those people would be missing the point. In fact, it's like the exact opposite of racist.

It's my second favorite Taratino movie as well. (Inglorious is my first though.)

I'm putting down $50 for this. It's a good idea, hopefully the end product will be decent enough.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Respectfully, I'd rather hear about sexism in the games industry from someone who has known about it for more than five minutes.

Why? I mean, is it some requirement that a reporter not be able to report on something without having known about it for years?

 

[IHaveCandy]

Why? I mean, is it some requirement that a reporter not be able to report on something without having known about it for years?

Well when it comes down to giving money, I can see why the donor wants a reputable source.

 

[Annubis]

You know what every movie, article, research is missing?

SOLUTIONS.

You can talk about something till the end of the world, but unless one of them brings possible solutions, it's just going to desensitize the whole subject matter with coverage bloat.

(the above is an opinion... to be taken as such)

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Well when it comes down to giving money, I can see why the donor wants a reputable source.

How does that tie into not giving money because they are an outsider looking in? Its not like the abuse is something completely new and only an industry vet could make sure a report/documentary.

You look at their previous body of work, and their proposed research, and give based on that. Same as any other producer giving money to a filmmaker.

 

[Arcteryx]

I wish people would layoff this KS, "women in gaming", bandwagon bullshit. We get it: some people are assholes, but why should this be "news"?

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

You know what every movie, article, research is missing?

SOLUTIONS.

You can talk about something till the end of the world, but unless one of them brings possible solutions, it's just going to desensitize the whole subject matter with coverage bloat.

(the above is an opinion... to be taken as such)

Not their job. A solution often has to come from a different source. A reporter is not always in a position to directly set policy. It's rather asinine to even suggest it. An empirical look at the issue, however, can inspire solutions from those who have the authority to actually effect the problem.

 

[rdrr gnr]

And I'm assuming context is the reason why those people are wrong. (haven't seen it yet. It's on my list.)

Some of it is context. It also has to do with the director being white.

 

[IHaveCandy]

How does that tie into not giving money because they are an outsider looking in? Its not like the abuse is something completely new and only an industry vet could make sure a report/documentary.

You look at their previous body of work, and their proposed research, and give based on that. Same as any other producer giving money to a filmmaker.

Well from what I gathered, her previous work/experience doesn't really make donating to this project a sensible thing to do.

Not their job. A solution often has to come from a different source. A reporter is not always in a position to directly set policy. It's rather asinine to even suggest it. An empirical look at the issue, however, can inspire solutions from those who have the authority to actually effect the problem.

The only solution is to be more open-minded as buyers. I can't tell you how many times I have customers dismissing games by not fitting into that "dude-bro" image. Kyle Bosman would be surprised just how many people walk into a game store and buy a game with the most badass looking guy on the cover without knowing a lot about the game.

 

[rrs]

I wish people would layoff this KS, "women in gaming", bandwagon bullshit. We get it: some people are assholes, but why should this be "news"?

Because people want to make a whole bunch of money off of it, that's why.

 

[Avallon]

Games like Gravity Rush, The Last of Us, and Beyond are great examples of having a strong female lead/supporting character that isn't relegated to the typical roles of female characters in games.

Not the best example of women not being objectified...

 

[Avallon]

Context is irrelevant, your words have meaning without it. I'm sorry that you think that things don't have effects outside of their immediate implication but they do.

That's the gayest thing I've ever seen!

context:

context is everything.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Well from what I gathered, her previous work/experience doesn't really make donating to this project a sensible thing to do.




The only solution is to be more open-minded as buyers. I can't tell you how many times I have customers dismissing games by not fitting into that "dude-bro" image. Kyle Bosman would be surprised just how many people walk into a game store and buy a game with the most badass looking guy on the cover without knowing a lot about the game.

From what I gather, shes more making a film about how women are treated by the industry. For example, at trade shows, in the workplace, by the fans, etc. It's very similar to the issues female engineers face in many areas.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Not the best example of women not being objectified...

Because she was submissive and ineffective, right?

 

[Doogington]

When are we going to see women wanting to make games instead of pointing out problems in an industry they seem to have little interest in being a part of? Not defending the sexism going on, no sir. Just it seems like a better start would be to have women putting their efforts into making the games they want to see and show that they can be taken seriously as developers making worthwhile contributions to gaming.

 

[IHaveCandy]

Not the best example of women not being objectified...

What's the problem with any of that? Kat was confident with the way she looked. It's absurd to equate sexuality in any way as objectifying. The fact that Kat liked to wear some outfits that she thought she looked good in and the fact that there is a scene where she accidentally drops her towel doesn't make her character an object. It's a perfect example of a female character not limited to typical roles of female characters.

 

[sleepykyo]

I give up. Neogaf is easily the most sexist, racist and homophobic forum I've ever been to after reddit.

Please ban my account. Some of you are cool but I don't have the time or patience to deal with this level of garbage human.

Context is always relevant. Various human gestures shift from pointless to insulting depending on the recipient but that may not have been the intent of the sender. eg. Bush's visit to Australia.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

That's the gayest thing I've ever seen!

context:

context is everything.

That is one gay baby. I wish I was as gay as this baby.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

That's the gayest thing I've ever seen!

context:

context is everything.

hahahaha this is great

 

[Ryuukan]

Not the best example of women not being objectified...

Cosplay is not consent

 

[cubicle47b]

I give up. Neogaf is easily the most sexist, racist and homophobic forum I've ever been to after reddit.

Please ban my account. Some of you are cool but I don't have the time or patience to deal with this level of garbage human.

I can see the Tumblr rant already.

 

[char0n]

I wish people would layoff this KS, "women in gaming", bandwagon bullshit. We get it: some people are assholes, but why should this be "news"?

They'll lay off it when people stop throwing money at it. Controversy breeds attention, which breeds support. I'm still a bit curious why video game industry/culture seems to be square in the crosshairs these days though, for the most part I think the core of the problems being found could be generalized to "anonymized online interaction", "young teenage boy behavior online" and "any entertainment industry" or really any industry at all. Is it just that videogames are low hanging fruit (nerds tend to fold easily when challenged, so first videogames, tomorrow the world)? Or that mixed in with the occasional blatant sexism is a lot of more progressive thought and willingness for self examination than most other communities/industries (so already a foothold)? Part of me worries it's being used to find a "legitimate" excuse to bully geeks again (seen a fair amount of "of course gamers are sexists, they're a bunch of neckbeard basement dwelling losers obsessed with weird things trying to escape from reality and need to be ostracized" type vitriol that is not at all productive but seems to be the background sentiment of the most ardent cause fighters) but I'll admit that's part conspiracy-theory level thought, part flashbacks from being an old geek from the days when it wasn't "hahaha I'm such a geek XD" about wearing glasses and liking computer games/technology and more "It's a geek! stuff him in a locker/give him a swirly!"

 

[eudaemonic]

I'd rather see a series of inequalities in the games industry with episodes dedicated to addressing issues women face than these one-off feminist attacks.

What about biases towards parents? Age discrimination? Developers taking advantage of free internships?

I’ll listen more carefully when I see your agenda covers everyone and not just your gender.

Okay… that was my civil response to what’s been going on. Here’s my lady rant that I’m going to spoiler because I need to get it out but it’s a little off-topic.

Spoiler

I'm tired of some people jumping into the ring and turning it into a "if you're not with us, you're against us" match. You know what? I'm a woman. I’ve been working in the games industry in some capacity for at least ten years now. I fight for equal pay and being treated respectfully. But just because I can take a compliment without getting offended it doesn't make me the bad guy. And yes, I will stand up for the rights for my male friends to make dick jokes or say a girl is hot because I like making dick jokes and I’ll admit when another girl is hot too. I don’t want to tip toe around them; I don’t want them to tip toe around me. And I’d hope that if I ever say something that crosses a line, they’ll tell me and I’ll do the same. Communication works fucking wonders and just trying to shut up the other side because “you’re offended” is bullshit.

 

[ojsinnerz]

I give up. Neogaf is easily the most sexist, racist and homophobic forum I've ever been to after reddit.

Please ban my account. Some of you are cool but I don't have the time or patience to deal with this level of garbage human.

Check your privilege.

 

[Pau]

What's the problem with any of that? Kat was confident with the way she looked. It's absurd to equate sexuality in any way as objectifying. The fact that Kat liked to wear some outfits that she thought she looked good in and the fact that there is a scene where she accidentally drops her towel doesn't make her character an object. It's a perfect example of a female character not limited to typical roles of female characters.

Her role and the fanservice is pretty typical. Yeah, she's a female protagonist - but like most female protagonist in games, she's pretty sexualized.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I give up. Neogaf is easily the most sexist, racist and homophobic forum I've ever been to after reddit.

Please ban my account. Some of you are cool but I don't have the time or patience to deal with this level of garbage human.

Lol, NeoGAF is that overwhelmingly offensive to you?

Christ, how do you make it through the day?