Portugeezer
Member
"GTFO"? Seems legit.
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"GTFO: A Film About Women in Gaming" on Kickstarter
- Thread starter maquiladora
- Start date
Absolutely hilarious.That's the gayest thing I've ever seen!
context:
context is everything.
As for the whole derailment with the Kotaku stuff, it's nothing. Stop being overly sensitive and if you are gay you need to learn to not be offended by every single little mean that means nothing. I am a 29 year old gay man living in knoxville TN, i grew up in one of the absolute worst towns in the wrong era. I have been beaten, spat on and bullied my entire life and called every name in the book so maybe trivial things like this just don't bother me but seriously it's not a BIG deal.
The fact this derailment went on for so long with absolutely ridiculous arguments offends me more then the actual article.
IHaveCandy
Banned
No she isn't. Most of those outfits aren't sexualized. They take up the tiniest portion of the game, along with the towel scene. Is it only okay to have female characters in games that show no sexual identity or something? You have to act as if they have no sexual features and any act of representing a sexual side is wrong or objectifying them?
I actually liked how she wasn't very freaked out about dropping her towel. She seemed to have the attitude that nothing is wrong with nudity. Nudity and sex are different things after all.
Kat's sexual identity was pretty damn cliche. All the scenes involving it and her nudity were cringeworthy and something I would expect from an anime. Games hardly have a grasp on basic character development let alone mature portrayals of sexual identity, and it seems they mostly include it when it can be titillating to the audience.
And the school girl, maid, and Catwoman-esque costumes are all clearly there for their fetish appeal - however they might be justified in the narrative.
Ugh...
IHaveCandy
Banned
I didn't really care for the towel scene, but there wasn't anything wrong with it. I don't get what exactly is cliche about her sexual identity. From what I gathered, she likes guys, she is confident with her body, and she doesn't have a problem with nudity. That is her character a part of her character. I don't see what is wrong with representing that in the game. The fact that some guys might get turned on by some of her costumes seems pointless. I doubt Japan Studios is trying to sell their game by having a couple of optional outfits that aren't necessarily sexual to anybody but a few people with fetishes.
Is Cloe making sexual advances at Drake in Uncharted 2 objectifying either of them, or is it just another part of the game that defines their characters?
This seems interesting. Anita Sarkeesian never released a new video, did her?
The phrase "fucked up" has lost all meaning.
The phrase "fucked up" has lost all meaning.
Krauser Kat
Member
? sooo you dont listen to any reporters on anything. Not all of them are master of their subject, and a lot of the time coming in completely fresh is much better then having an already entrenched set of ideas.
Well, I don't blame anyone for being skeptical.
There's a lot of misinformation about gaming... and reporters of mainstream news do their fair share of relaying that misinformation, particularly when it becomes more lucrative to spice up a story than not.
Krauser Kat
Member
A big problem about communication is it really on works down rank. Telling your boss to stop making dick jokes because it offends you, and someone has every right to be offended about anything, could get you fired. Which is why we have HR but that is not useful all the time either.
Krauser Kat
Member
I totally agree with you, but im way more familiar with an NPR style of reporting of being almost to centered and fair. I would kill babies (no probably not) for a this american life type series on a variety of issues within the gaming industry. Sexism, Writing/ Story Development, Over Worked hours. Anyone to do any real reporting, 1000s of interviews, Big people and small people. It has to be done right. I hope this woman does it this way.
I'm getting exhausted of these "OMG! sexism in gaming!! how could it be?"
why only target gaming with these kickstarter campaigns? and what's so inherently particular about gaming as a medium, that it's beholden to be this utopic haven of decency and respect of others.
for chrissake, gaming mostly revolves around hacking enemies in half and scoring brutal headshots. it's a bit naive to expect exemplary behavior from it's adherents.
why only target gaming with these kickstarter campaigns? and what's so inherently particular about gaming as a medium, that it's beholden to be this utopic haven of decency and respect of others.
for chrissake, gaming mostly revolves around hacking enemies in half and scoring brutal headshots. it's a bit naive to expect exemplary behavior from it's adherents.
Zoe
Member
If she shows up, you know it won't be in the way you want.
Not everyone is you. If you are fine with people making these jokes around you then there is no issue for you, but others aren't. I don't think anyone is trying to shut up the joking you have between co-workers, but the default expectation in a professional space should not be a frat house. If you aren't with us on this point then you are simply against us.
Metal Gear?!
Member
And yet it was something neither you or anyone else did. Same with this project, assuming it gets finished.
Tropes vs NeoGAF #11
HEY THIS IS TOTALLY A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE BUT YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO DO IT SO YOU SHOULD SHUT UP AND NOT EVEN TRY. AND IF YOU DO WE WILL CALL YOU A FRAUD.
It bothers you that some things are actually being changed? If you're so sick of hearing about it, imagine what it must be like to have to live with it?
Welcome to documentary filmaking
So you are who Leigh Alexander was talking about...
http://leighalexander.net/faq/
"Why do you sometimes mock ‘nerds’ and ‘gamers’ so virulently? Isn’t that the same kind of bullying you rail against?
A lot of ‘proud nerds’ are people who used the fact they were picked on for their interests as children to maintain, as adults and and fathers (they are most often privileged men, now) a ‘secret clubhouse’ that lets them victimize and oppress other participants — despite the fact games are now a multi-billion dollar industry, increasingly stigma-free, and desperately in need of the creative and professional participation of multitudes of new voices.
Self-identified nerds are often so obsessed with their identity as cultural outcasts that they are willfully blind to their privilege, and for the sake of relatively-absurd fandoms — space marines, dragons, zombies, endless war simulations — take their myopic and insular attitudes to “art” and “culture” with tunnel-visioned, inflexible, embarrassing seriousness that often leads to homogeneity, racism, sexism and bullying.
Nerds escaped high school. Some of them made millions making video games. Digital literacy doesn’t make you special, it makes you baseline employable. Fantasy is on mainstream cable.
Meanwhile, actual systemic oppression is punishing people not just where they wish to participate in games, but in every day of the rest of their lives. For many people, profound and violating inequalities show no sign of ease, and their “fellow outcasts” collude to reject them from the clubhouse when they try to join in .
My adult life in games and internet culture frequently involves brutal gendered language. Over video games. So if you want someone who feels sorry for you because your family grew up with a Super Nintendo, don’t ask me.
The fact you got a Game Boy for Christmas and liked it so much you stopped doing anything else doesn’t entitle you to a revolution. Your fandom is not your identity. Your fandom is not a race.
If you think it is, then you’re in our way, and the work I do specifically exists to dispossess you of your sense of relevance. If you don’t like it, good. I’m much louder than you. And we have an army."
And in the other thread we thought she was making too big a deal out of it. Maybe not, if she's met dozens of people like you.
Did you even read that post?
Dictator93
Member
creepyfacebehindofficeplant.jpg
No it's not.
Also this goes out to everyone here who posts this idiotic "Why only focus on games! Or women, or people!" shit. We choose what we focus on. We choose what's a big issue to us at the time. We decide what maybe is not well known, or well accepted. People do this every day. It doesn't mean they don't care about issues like racism, or homophobia, or yes even sexism concerning men. This is an hour and half film with a particular focus on a particular culture. There is nothing wrong with that. Sometimes we can focus on multiple things. Like while posting on forums it's pretty easy for me to support feminism, trans people, homosexuals or make anti-racism and anti-war sentiments. It's also not hard to vote for change. It's a lot tougher to be involved in activist events or making a fucking movie.
Metal Gear?!
Member
No. But the avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
It's gotta change/but even the small changes actually happening bother me!
I'm sick of hearing about it/but it's not like I want you to shut up and stop talking about it... baka!
Yeah because Kotaku's tabloid fodder is a "small change" -- a small change in the negative direction maybe.
Or you have a narrow view and can't see that some people might hop on the bandwagon of the subject dujour for personal gain. activism for lucrative reasons exist and these kickstarters reek of it.
look, I'm not belittling sexism as a problem, I just think its the wrong way to go about it, because sexism is not a gaming issue, it's a deeply ingrained societal problem and should be tackled as such.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
No, he was saying that he's tired of the issue of sexism being muddled by over reactionary headlines instead of actually looking inward and examining the issues for women in the industry.
There was a female games journalist that saw some women at that party that Notch threw and assumed because they were dressed provocatively that he hired them as entertainment. Notch confirmed that he didn't hire anyone and then the journalist kept going on about how she and other people didn't think it was right that they were there.
People were literally uncomfortable that there were women who dressed how they want at a club, so much so that they assumed they were hired.
When you have people going around making these preconceived notions like that and over reacting to things like a trophy called "Bros Before Hoes" and acting like it's going to be the downfall of western civilization then all you're doing is making a joke out of the word sexism. None of these articles are ever dig where they need to, they just skim the top for the easy throw away story. Hell, we even have people scamming gamers with now with sexism as the hook.
None of this bullshit DOES anything. Is there sexism in the gaming industry? Yes. Are they ever going to change if all people focus on is the fact that a Sorceress has big boobs in a video game? Fucking no. If these journalists were worth their weight in shit they'd finally do something right and actually try to expose everything sexist with the gaming industry instead of taking jabs at some random guy in Japan like if we got those big boobs out of Dragon's Crown that everything would suddenly right itself and everyone would walk into the sunset under a rainbow.
The solution to this isn't that we need to change the video games that exist. That will never work. Artist censorship is bullshit no matter how much you dislike something. What needs to happen is the industry needs to broaden so that more experiences are available. There are sexy books, movies, music, comic books, magazines, pretty much whatever. No one in those industries is constantly standing on their soapbox saying how people need to change what they're doing. You know why? Because it's a small portion of a larger medium.
The problem isn't that sexy is in video games, the problem is that in regards to women, that's practically all there is. That's what's wrong. Every AAA doesn't amount to anything better then a summer blockbuster action movie in plot or characterization. But those things have their place, both in the video game and movie industries. The issue is the lack of alternatives, so sitting around complaining about how big some characters boobs are doesn't do anything. People are going in fucking circles. What you should be doing is knocking down Activision/EA/Whoever's door and asking them why all they insist on making is the same thing over and over and why they won't do anything new.
Sitting around complaining about this is like going to a movie theater, seeing that's it's all bullshit action movies with no plot and finding the directors on twitter and asking them why they didn't make something you'd like. When instead you should be knocking down the doors of Paramount/MGM and asking them where the fuck the Dramas/Comedies/Horror movies went and why the keep making the same shit over and over.
John Rabbit
Banned
leigh alexander is an exceedingly myopic and pedantic writer. it's best not to take anything she says, does, or writes particularly to heart. and that's nothing to do with her gender; she's just ignorant and boorish. she has an agenda and makes it pretty clear to anyone and everyone. she's not above playing the gender card either to stave off any real criticism that comes her way.
Jzero
Member
This is more accurate.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Hopefully this turns out better than Sarkeesians, her videos were painful to watch.
they were? which was your least favorite one? the first one, or the first one?
Woof...
Everyone in that video is a pretty good example of how not to advocate a movement. My god.
I really don't see how you can claim that this kickstarter is any different than any other film about an issue. If you don't trust the filmmaker fine, but I see no evidence that this is a scam or someone taking advantage of some zeitgeist.
If we can't agree that it's possible or even smart to focus a movie or discussion to an area you are A. knowledgeable in, B. Care about, or C. one that doesn't have a ton of discussion going on I don't know if we will ever agree. There are people who are focusing on the societal problems as a whole and great for them. We need people like that, but we also need people who can help focus on changing communities from the inside. Not every problem is a result of society at large. Sometimes communities are just full of shitty people.
Yeah because men are constantly abused for being men with gendered insults and the like.
Correct. However when most of the videos do little more than shining a giant light on the problem rather than offering solutions on how to fix it, you're only looking at diminishing returns, and I think that's where a lot of the fatigue that people are clamouring about stems from.
Well...they are. How many times have you been called a "fucking faggot" whilst playing Halo or Call of Duty.
I really wanna see someone tackle the more serious aspects of sexism in gaming if they're going to take on the issue. Forget tropes or online play or the shit that's so rotten that it can't be fixed without millions upon millions of dollars being funneled into the project. Why hasn't anyone tackled the Capcom sponsored fighting game show from last year? Why hasn't anyone talked to Sherry Jenix beyond 1 interview? Why hasn't anyone tried to figure out why there are no female starcraft players in Korea? Why hasn't anyone tried to interview Oliva Munn or Morgan Webb upon them effectively leaving the video game spyglass? Why hasn't anyone interviewed Kayo Police about his/her status in the japanese VGC and the media that his/her lifestyle entails?
It doesn't feel like anyone is really doing the work that needs to be done here, and that's what gets to me. I feel like this movie is going to be a 20k dollar documentary about how if you play games online on xbox, a 12 year old is going to call you a "stupid bitch cunt", and that helps no one.
Giolon
Member
Or a bitch. Or a retard. Or a cocksucker. Or a nigger. Or a Jew. Or any number of god awful foul things. It's just John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckward Theory. Is it a problem? Yes. Are women deserving of special attention or treatment in this regard? No. Everybody deserves to be treated better than they are in a lot of these online game communities.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Yeah, this doesn't instill me with confidence that this is an issue close to her heart.
We are barely even out of the primordial soup stage of shining a light. As is evident by threads on GAF many people don't even see a problem. Shining a light is part of a solution to this. It's a massive part. I wasn't aware (or didn't care) about these issues even 3 years ago. Then I saw people talk. Awareness is important. All other solutions require either lots of time to change hearts and minds or active "PC" hiring. The former being a favorite of the status quo. Arguing that encouraging more women to get into the STEM fields is easy. Everyone can get behind education. The status quo loves this because it takes time and involves hardly any work on their part. Nothing will change for them. The outsider needs to change if they want to get involved. Actively looking for women to hire makes them uneasy. "Political Correctness gone mad!" by all means we need all of these solutions, but raising consciousness is key.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
A man doesn't belittle a man by making fun of the fact that he's a man. The way men insult each other is by trying to make them feel like less of a man. And plenty of that happens on Live.
I don't believe you honestly think that white men don't shit talk other white men on Live. Not to mention any of the times I've been made fun of for being American by British players, and all the times I've been made fun of for being white by black people on Live.
Stop acting like Xbox Live isn't a cesspool for everyone.
I hated her manic pixie video in regards to films. Ditto for why men should hate the vampire in Twilight. Can't say I was fond of the Bayonetta one either. Her first video game one was at least entertaining so I guess it doesn't reach McLibel or Corporation, but it reaches Fahrenheit 9/11 except people recognize that Michael Moore's documentaries are simply entertainment.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Glad that Susan's exploitation hasn't ruined Kickstarters in this vein.
Yes homophobic language is also a huge problem in the gaming culture. African American and other minorities deal with just as much shit as well. This is a discussion about women. There are obviously other issues, but don't pretend that someone throwing homophobic slurs at you is really an insult for you being a straight man.
Besides this isn't just about single words. This is about what happens when someone finds out you are a woman. Cat calling, "Girls don't play games!" "Get back in the kitchen" etc. What do men have to deal with online? Do people tell you to get back to working construction? This is just online too. I don't know entirely what its like to be a female pro-gamer. It seems like she is interviewing pro players, so hopefully this film will provide some perspective on that. I agree though that we need more real investigations. I'm really interested in especially the foreign scene. Some of the stuff I hear about Japan can be pretty fucked up.
Yeah by making them feel like they are women or gay. There are issues with men. People expecting men to be a certain way. Strong, not emotional etc. This is bullshit and needs to stop, but I really don't see the gaming industry as a whole being equally hostile to men as it is to women, LGBT's, or racial minorities.
Giolon
Member
See my previous post for examples. For GTFO examples, "Get the fuck out of here faggot," "Why don't you kill yourself, Jew," " That guy has a Mexican accent. Go back to Mexico," etc. etc. Why not examine the whole toxic community and not just give women treatment as a special category? (b/c there's no money in it, probably)
Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying this shouldn't be made. I'd just prefer that the specific issue of harassment in online gaming communities be addressed without focusing on the subset of abused gamers that's "hot" at the moment.
Sounds interesting. I'll back it, I really want it to reach its goal.
Kickstarter really is amazing, what's happening right now really bfill me with hope for the future of video games.
Oh, black people made fun of you for being white? The tough life of the hegemony.
Listen, I understand that you have it tough too, that your life ain't all sugar, but there's a difference between what you're experiencing and really systematic disfranchisement.
Kickstarter really is amazing, what's happening right now really bfill me with hope for the future of video games.
To make them less man, i.e more woman. Must be very hard.
Oh, black people made fun of you for being white? The tough life of the hegemony.
Listen, I understand that you have it tough too, that your life ain't all sugar, but there's a difference between what you're experiencing and really systematic disfranchisement.